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I quite like the Soul Drinker series also they were a renegade chapter with little or no means of re-supply who has already used xenos equipment so i think by that point the marines just arm themselves with whatever and go for it.

But that's just it. Renegade Chapter. They don't follow the same practices as... Let's say the Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, when it comes to using Xeno/Chaos Equipment.

Yeah that was my defending point as to why they can't be used as an example of marines using other weapons. Thanks for just saying what i was trying to imply... sorry that was a bit rude.

purplefood wrote:I quite like the Soul Drinker series also they were a renegade chapter with little or no means of re-supply who has already used xenos equipment so i think by that point the marines just arm themselves with whatever and go for it.

Oops. Shoulda read the book instead of letting my friend drool while talking about the awesome/cheesy things inside it.
So the guy doesn't know everything about the universe that he's going to try to make up new things for and screws up with pre written information that is about the basics which he doesn't explain away? so wha- okay, bad example.
So the guy decides to go against existing fluff in an attempt to mix things up with eldar, and put some dissent into their ranks? So wha- okay, not a great idea, but not the worst one either. But doing it through the pervert god and pedophilia, no. Just no.

Okay, I guess the guy wrote some bad stuff. end of story. Sounds like if you're just willing to look past his little slipups, the stories are actually written better than the average black library book. So the guy just really needs a friggin' editor who actually fact checks with the existing fluff.

Hence my post on the previous page about me hoping he reforms and gets his stuff together. Then he shall truly be a writer worthy of the name.

micahaphone wrote:Gettin' rather heated in here. TBH I kinda agree w/ guitardian. The fluff is always changing. Why not? and sure, he wrote some stupid sounding stuff, but at least he wrote it semi-coherently. Riding atop a razorback is probably inspired by what american GIs did in vietnam: they rode atop their troop transports, out of the safety of the armor because A), it was hot inside the APCs, B), the viet cong would steal landmines and detonate landmines or random explosions buried in the road to kill the soldiers inside due to insufficient armor on the bottom, and C), the VC would rarely to a full frontal assault on a large convoy of soldiers. /endofftopicrant. I personally wouldn't do it, I'd be too afraid of the razorback turret shooting me!

Nobody would have a problem with a squad of infantry sitting on a light tank to go into battle - it's been done before Vietnam, and IIRC in the past GW has even released sitting Guardsman miniatures for this purpose. What is stupid is having someone standing on a moving vehicle for no good reason.

And is marines with multilazors really that bad? Space marines using an imperium weapon that they don't normally use?

Yes, it is. The only place multilasers are used are in turrets. There is no such thing as a multilaser with a forward grip and a trigger and an easily carried magazine in the Imperial armoury, so the only way to get one you could carry and fire yourself would be to build it.

AlexHolker wrote:

And is marines with multilazors really that bad? Space marines using an imperium weapon that they don't normally use?

Yes, it is. The only place multilasers are used are in turrets. There is no such thing as a multilaser with a forward grip and a trigger and an easily carried magazine in the Imperial armoury, so the only way to get one you could carry and fire yourself would be to build it.

Is there a book/reference that shows specifically what's in the imperial armory? I mean, lascannons normally require a vehicle or turrent & battery pack. But a space marine can carry one and use a backpack battery. Just because it's never been mentioned doesn't mean some techmarine couldn't modify some, or find a new diagram within the datastacks upon how to do so.

micahaphone wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

And is marines with multilazors really that bad? Space marines using an imperium weapon that they don't normally use?

Yes, it is. The only place multilasers are used are in turrets. There is no such thing as a multilaser with a forward grip and a trigger and an easily carried magazine in the Imperial armoury, so the only way to get one you could carry and fire yourself would be to build it.

Is there a book/reference that shows specifically what's in the imperial armory? I mean, lascannons normally require a vehicle or turrent & battery pack. But a space marine can carry one and use a backpack battery. Just because it's never been mentioned doesn't mean some techmarine couldn't modify some, or find a new diagram within the datastacks upon how to do so.

Actually i remember reading somewhere that the AdMech were almost constantly (although very carefully) trying to scale certain titan weapons down so tanks can use them (normal sized not baneblade sized) as well as weapons carried on tanks so that infantry can use them can't remember where though which annoys me somewhat.

Multi-lazors, like every other Impierial energy based weapon, requires a large power source.


this precludes it to being used in vehicles or with a large external power supply.


Marines have portable lascannons because they need portable anti-tank.

they have portable anti-infantry in the form of heavy bolters and frag missiles.


Multi-lasers would mean lugging a large power pack around just so you can mow down orks. i would rather lug a power pack around to make tanks go by-by.



the only thing that would feasibly carry a Multi-laser around would be a Terminator. and they have assault cannons which are better.

This thread is still alive? pfft.

It's that kind of day... 4/5 people arguing with 1 person... that's most days to be honest.

Only on dakka! Actually, that's not true at all. Only on the international network.

Yeah, I have nothing better to do.
I'm not proud of that, but hey.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Only on dakka! Actually, that's not true at all. Only on the international network.

+1

Hahaha. nice. good point.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Yeah, I have nothing better to do.
I'm not proud of that, but hey.

speaking of being 'snarky'...

iiIii

Look dude, I ain't being 'snarky' (who the heck uses that word in real life anyways?) I just don't like people giving out so much hate on a guy who was just trying to write some fantasy fiction and color outside the lines a bit. You want to offend me personally PM me, or go ahead and accuse me of 'snarkiness' whatever the hell that is as if I give a gak. feth your judgemental irrelevant contribution, and thank you very much for the insult. "snarky"? though. c'mon dude. please come up with something slightly more intellectually stimulating if you are going to insult someone.

C.S.Goto put a lot of work into trying to expand his vision of a universe and an imagination. You may not like it. The publishers may not like it after the backdraft of negative criticism from nerdhammerers. At least he tried to make some art out of a travesty of an ever changing universe that reinvents itself based on what edition is selling what models. I'm sick of hearing people diss this guy just because they don't like his story ideas. He is a writer. As such, he takes whatever commission he can get, and does what he can with the world he is stuck with writing about. You don't like his re-writing of fluff??? ask someone at GW why I have 400 SQUATS in my basement and an Eldar Shricat in the hands of an SM scout.

No more attacks please unless you do it in PM.

- the "snarky" one

..What work did he put into it? His work reads like he just strung crap together to get as many action scenes in as possible.

Also, in regards to GW rewriting the fluff...
It's their world. They've established it, they changed it almost 15-16 years ago and have kept it pretty consistent since then. I'm not sure if you're really in here white knighting for Goto because you enjoyed his works(in which case: good for you. I can't read purile crap like that though, even when I'm given it as birthday presents.) or if you're just here to make offhanded "back in my day we had Space Marines with Shuriken Catapults, and Space Dwarves!" styled remarks.

If the latter, I'll just make the comment I've always made in regards to Squats:
Squat players need to move on. It was an unhealthy attachment to continue whining about them in 2001, and now it's just a ridiculous case of rose tinting.

Isn't 40k and most fluff jsut lots of battles put together plus some background to explain why awesome character is awesome? And why sad character is sad but awesome? And generic drama in order to link together more battles?

It depends on what fluff you're talking about.

The Inquisition books done by Abnett are more of a look at Imperial society and the Inquisition than "action-packed non-stop thrill rides!", etc.

Kanluwen wrote:

And is marines with multilazors really that bad? Space marines using an imperium weapon that they don't normally use? What about the "Soul Drinkers" series, where one of the characters has some sort of rivet shooting gun, and when he hits a necron warrior, it damages it so bad that the warriors body doesn't dissappear? Was that "realistic or fitting in with the current fluff"?

Soul Drinkers series was written by Ben Counter, who is regarded just as poorly as C.S. Goto for the most part.

And hey, guess what?
Seemingly also not employed by Black Library anymore! Last novel was April 2009 with nothing, at all, upcoming(and the publishing schedule is available to look at up to May, 2011).

While I did read that book and enjoyed it, mostly in the fact of how he portrayed Flayed Ones and them hiding in bodies which makes good sense for an ambush/infiltrate unit. I was rather miffed when it talked of how Necron Warriors died in droves to mere lasgun fire and auto-rifles. Being the same endurance as a freaking Space Marine I'd expect Necrons to put up a bit more of a fight shot for shot. Still, was a good book and got me thinking about Necron conversions, alot of Space Marine fanboying but hey...it's a book about Marines, have to put up with it =/

Kanluwen wrote:Eldar Farseers surfing on Falcon Grav-Tanks with their turrets removed to make room for a surfboard, etc.

WTF now that would be a sight to see. Just like that one poster with a Commissar surfing a Leman Russ, the quote below was something like "Hardcore - only a badass would surf a tank into battle" like one of those demotivate posters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note after reading this thread I have a sudden urge to read some of Goto's books, anyone have an idea where I can get my hands on some?

(I swear the greater daemon of this thread that we spawned is whispering things into my ear, kinda like how the eldar accidentally created Slannesh)

Wow... that day has come. Someone is actually actively defending C.S. Goto. Even though the Black Library changed their entire method of editing and publishing books because of the crap Goto pulled, this guy is still defending it.

Guitardian = C.S. Goto, maybe?



And yes, Matt Ward is C.S. Goto 2.0. You only have to read the Sanguinor's fluff to see that. And Blood Fists, Blood Talons, Bloodstrike Missiles, Blood Chalices, Bloodshard Bolter Shells, Blood ad naueum...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Guitardian wrote:C.S.Goto put a lot of work into trying to expand his vision of a universe and an imagination.

No dipgak he didn't. He wrote bad books that were written badly. Firewarrior was an absurd book full of all sorts of stupid inconsistencies, but it was still a fun read. Goto books are painfully bad, fetishistic in their nature and subject matter, and lack any sort of internal cohesion. Having tanks that transform into different tanks and everyone riding around on top of their transports isn't an "expanded vision" of 40K - it's bad writing (or editing - or both).


To this day I remain convinced that G.S. Goto got his notion of everyone riding on tanks from walking into a GW store, seeing that everyone had models on their tanks (to signify what unit was in what transport) and just took that literally, assuming that people just rode on tanks everywhere in 40K.

I've actually thumbed through Dawn of War and again I'm very confused on why at the end

Because he was a Zombie.

Terminus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Much like alot of the laws regarding rape are created in reaction to heinous events, C.S. Goto heralded a new era of Black Library's draconian rule on their authors.

I like to call it "Goto's Law", personally.

Yes, the new rape laws are good, but it doesn't help the victims already violated.

Ha.

Guitardian wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Yeah, I have nothing better to do.
I'm not proud of that, but hey.

speaking of being 'snarky'...

iiIii

Look dude, I ain't being 'snarky' (who the heck uses that word in real life anyways?) I just don't like people giving out so much hate on a guy who was just trying to write some fantasy fiction and color outside the lines a bit. You want to offend me personally PM me, or go ahead and accuse me of 'snarkiness' whatever the hell that is as if I give a gak. feth your judgemental irrelevant contribution, and thank you very much for the insult. "snarky"? though. c'mon dude. please come up with something slightly more intellectually stimulating if you are going to insult someone.

C.S.Goto put a lot of work into trying to expand his vision of a universe and an imagination. You may not like it. The publishers may not like it after the backdraft of negative criticism from nerdhammerers. At least he tried to make some art out of a travesty of an ever changing universe that reinvents itself based on what edition is selling what models. I'm sick of hearing people diss this guy just because they don't like his story ideas. He is a writer. As such, he takes whatever commission he can get, and does what he can with the world he is stuck with writing about. You don't like his re-writing of fluff??? ask someone at GW why I have 400 SQUATS in my basement and an Eldar Shricat in the hands of an SM scout.

No more attacks please unless you do it in PM.

- the "snarky" one

Dude, it wasn't meant as an insult, it was just a comment on how angry you were getting. Genuinely sorry if it caused offence.
I have tried to offer reasons as to my not liking Goto, and I would like to think they are fairly reasonable. I don't think he is a bad writer in general, par se; as you have said, his style is fun to read, far more so than some authors in the BL. I have stated time and again, however, that he does disregard some very basic knowledge of the 4OK universe, and I'm not referring to Shuriken catapults or multilasers or tank-surfing or such. That, as you say, could be seen as just a bit of fun.
No, what I disliked intently is his massive misrepresentation of an entire in-game race. He must have something against the Eldar, the way he writes about them. Fact is, claiming "discrimination" because a lot of the fans, fans who actually don't mind a bit of creativity, such as the Pasanius character or some of the Iron Warriors in Storm of Iron, disliked him doing that to a race. Just beacause you liked it and a lot of other people didn't does not make them "nerdhammerers" and to be honest, I find that to be a "Judgmental irrelevant contribution," far more so than a single word followed by a list of points that were very on-topic.

I never meant any of my comments to be offensive in any way (snark, I assumed, was just an internet term for someone getting really quite angry) and I'm sorry if that's the way you feel about it.
I think perhaps it's time to call it and agree to disagree.

Guitardian wrote:go ahead and accuse me of 'snarkiness' whatever the hell that is as if I give a gak. feth your judgemental irrelevant contribution, and thank you very much for the insult. "snarky"? though. c'mon dude. please come up with something slightly more intellectually stimulating if you are going to insult someone.

C.S.Goto put a lot of work into trying to expand his vision of a universe and an imagination. You may not like it. The publishers may not like it after the backdraft of negative criticism from nerdhammerers. At least he tried to make some art out of a travesty of an ever changing universe that reinvents itself based on what edition is selling what models. I'm sick of hearing people diss this guy just because they don't like his story ideas. He is a writer. As such, he takes whatever commission he can get, and does what he can with the world he is stuck with writing about. You don't like his re-writing of fluff??? ask someone at GW why I have 400 SQUATS in my basement and an Eldar Shricat in the hands of an SM scout.

No more attacks please unless you do it in PM.

- the "snarky" one

You're the only one resorting to personal attacks here, so I hope a moderator puts a boot in your ass.

And Goto puts zero work into his fiction. His use of language is amateurish, his characters are bland and shallow, and he does zero research into his source material and apparently doesn't even proof-read what he regurgitates one time before submitting it for print. Squats are just an IG army variant, you can use those models just fine. People have already explained why a Scout would have an Eldar weapon (whether due to being a renegade or momentarily using it on the battlefield since he's out of ammo).

You want to be like the one Goto fan in the world, that's fine, but please, calm the hell down and cut back on the insults.

Too many personal attacks n a thread that has somehow survived long enough for the impossible to happen.

All done!