Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tau are too far out to really give this much thought.

Aren't they?

My Magic 8-Ball says...

"Ask Again Later".
*shakes again*

What're the odds of getting "Ask Again Later" twice in a row?

Alpharius wrote:Tau are too far out to really give this much thought.

Aren't they?

Apparently not.

I would like to see them make squadrons for hammerheads or give them the outflank USR but either way Im sorry there is no way that railgun rumor is coming true... against hord armies that would be arguable more affective then pie plates.
Hey 'Nids "Wammma!!" as Earthworm Jim would say as a broadside team takes down multiple Big nasties in one volley.

Then again its GW so it wouldn't be far off base to believe they would do such a thing.

The rumor has nothing to do with broadsides just hammerhead railguns.

agnosto wrote:The rumor has nothing to do with broadsides just hammerhead railguns.

I imagine they'd make the distinction by calling it a rail cannon as opposed to a rail gun.

Which now makes me wonder if the Broadsides railgun is getting a strength debuff... icky.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Tau are too far out to really give this much thought.

Aren't they?

Apparently not.

Actually, they are.

That's what I get for being too vague I guess...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm just looking for a reason, any reason at all, to believe this latest absurd crop of rumors.

Did you not hear me?

...if I'd told you a year ago that Blood Angels would have a Psychic Dreadnought who could jump out of a mini-Thunderhawk with a psychic Jump Pack whilst firing a grappling hook before hitting you with a weapon called a 'Bloodfist', you've called me mad.

Seems more plausible now, doesn't it?

Exactly. Same deal with all that stuff in the new nid codex. If anything, the rumors make the new tau codex sound like all GW wants us to buy is hammerheads, so we aren't hearing the whole story. Expect a flyer.

juraigamer wrote:Exactly. Same deal with all that stuff in the new nid codex.

Actually, all my Tyranid rumour threads on Warseer were closed by Brimstone, because who could believe so many new and monstrous species to be in the Codex without even a model! Must be wishlisting! Phil Kelly confirmed it? Bah! One of them on the cover on the left? Nonsense!

juraigamer wrote:Exactly. Same deal with all that stuff in the new nid codex. If anything, the rumors make the new tau codex sound like all GW wants us to buy is hammerheads, so we aren't hearing the whole story. Expect a flyer.

You're right. In fact, you could apply this to just about any recent Codex:

"... if I'd told you two years ago that Space Wolves would have a Marines riding Giant Wolves, that Thor and Loki would have rules, and that there'd be a psychic power that could kill a several Carnifexes at once in a single hit from across the table, you'd've called me mad."

"... if I'd told you three years ago ago that Tyranids would have a new Monstrous Creature that could spawn Termagants during the Movement Phase, that Trygons would be a Heavy Support Choice, that Carnifexes would come in Squadrons, and that the Tyranid book would be filled with Special Characters, new flying creatures and more Monstrous Creatures than ever before, you'd've called me mad!"

"... if I'd told you a few years ago that the new Chaos Codex would suck, you'd've called me mad!"


Easy.

GW has release so much stuff that I want Daemons, BA, and HE this year that I can gladly wait to 2012 for Tau, save for that shaper.

"... if I'd told you a few years ago that there was going to be a whole Daemon 40K army, and that there would be un-bound Defilers, loads of new cavalry and chariots, everything could deep strike, that you could take two HQ's in every slot, that there would be Special Character Greater Daemons and that we'd be getting this because Daemons were being removed from the Chaos Codex, you'd've called me mad!"

"... if I'd told you two or so years that there was going to be a new Guard Codex where there were 6 different types of Leman Russ and that they were bringing back the Griffon, and Hydras would be in there, as well as Manticores, and all tanks could be taken in squads of 3 as a single Heavy Support slot, and Primaris Psykers were coming back, and whole squads of Psykers, and there's gonna be a plastic Valkyrie and you can bring them as transports, and you can have whole squads of 50 Guardsman and give them orders to shoot twice and Ogryn and Storm Troopers will still suck 'cause in 20 years they've never got them right, you'd've called me mad (except for the bit about Ogryn and Stormies)!"

This is fun!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

"... if I'd told you a few years ago that the new Chaos Codex would suck, you'd've called me mad!"

Easy.

You're fallin apart there sonny boy. That one was pretty easily predicted.

That being said, I hope that Tau will become the 40k Dogs of War. That'd be suh-weeeet.

Out of all of those the only ones that would have been feasable are the Chaos Codex sucking (Wen can't have CSM being as good as SM =p), and Carnifex squads in Nids . . . it's the best way to sell more models =D

Oshova

Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.

Broadsides>hammerheads. Tau players own tons of broadsides, so expect hammerheads to rule in the next dex. The ray o DOOM probably won't have a 72" range o DOOM, and if it does the cost of a hammerhead will be expensive. My guess is 4D6 starting at the impact of the 1st model hit, kind of like a whfb cannonball. It might also be a special ammo/upgrade like a medusae bastion breacher turning a hammerhead into a dedicated tank hunter. Mech is popular, and tau are not. My personal guess is 5th ed tau will be focused on killing meq and mech, but will be weak against other lists.

schadenfreude wrote:Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.

You want a simple fix for Vespid?

Assault 2.


Done.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.

You want a simple fix for Vespid?

Assault 2.


Done.

I'd agree with A2; but attacks, not assault.

Better yet would be both; make them like Ork Shoota boyz but worse, fleet, and jump infantry.

It's almost like GW didn't learn anything with the stingwings when they wrote the rules for the new hot-shot lasguns; nobody wants a short range AP3 weapon on a model that cannot also damage a marine in close combat.

I actually wish the rumors on vespid oh so many year ago were correct; that the neutron blasters would be ap3 flamers, instead we are left with short range single shot weapons on models that can hardly hit, easily get hit, and then have trouble wounding. 11 shots that roughly 5(rounded down) hit and 3-4 wound, followed by 22 crummy attacks that pretty much all get saved before the unit gets it's butts handed to it, for 182 points, is just not good. And the range means that this unit will get assaulted if it doesn't assault.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.

You want a simple fix for Vespid?

Assault 2.


Done.

no, not done. their "diamon hard claws" hit as hard as a guardsmen with a pointy stick; they either need to excise that bit of fluff or give them rending.

Fine then. Do what GW always does when it can't think of a good rule - give it Rending.

Yeah, just give them a special rule that their close combat attacks are AP3 but not power attacks. That way they're meq hunters but don't get past GWs favorite rule, FnP.

They'll probably give Kroot FnP because every army has FnP these days. Makes one wonder why they bother with armor anyway...

Feel no pain with either no armor save or a 6+? Sounds foolish to me.

Some of these rumors look pretty cool. We tried the railgun idea out, and it's pretty nasty. More guns are the last thing a Tau player needs.

Hey, hopefully we will all be able to get those old tau armies out again. Good to see that there may be some new plastic stuff on the way.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

It's almost like GW didn't learn anything with the stingwings when they wrote the rules for the new hot-shot lasguns; nobody wants a short range AP3 weapon on a model that cannot also damage a marine in close combat.

Its called supporting your force. Your vespids shouldn't have to worry about cc, because the rest of your army should have helped neutralized the threat. Its really not that hard a concept. Seriously, I've used vespids plenty (although not recently) and never had a problem with them. If anything, they were probably one of the best units in my army.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Fine then. Do what GW always does when it can't think of a good rule - give it Rending.

except in this case it makes sense. usually i'm right there with you to criticize GW and put a giant pile of salt on a thread but you really do need a big heaping dose of glass half full.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

In a vaccum all Tau units are sub par, the idea is to combine them with everyone's multiplier, the pathfinder.
At BS 3: 11 Vespid kill about 3-4 marines during the shooting phase or deals 1-2 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 4: 11 Vespid kill about 4-5 marines during the shooting phase or deals 2-3 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 5: 11 Vespid kill about 6 marines during the shooting phase or deals 3 wounds to a TMC.

If they fired 2 shots each, 182 points worth of vespid would nearly wipe a marine squad at BS 3 , reduce it to 1 at BS 4 and wipe it at BS 5. TMC would also not be a problem as statically they could kill a carnifex every turn with pathfinders or reduce them down to 1-2 wounds without pathfinders.

:Sigh: I think GW uses statistic as a means of figuring how much a point should cost point wise. Unfortunately the idea of being worth it in a specific situation if all goes according to plan, auto-dooms it. How often do things go to plan.

Tau already are very strong against Mech inf, missle pods do well against most transports(land raiders/Monoliths need to be taken out with Railguns, Fusions, EMP)

Even the puny Rail Rifle/Carbines can threaten Trucks/Chimeras/Rhinos

MEQ is their weakness.

QuietOrkmi wrote:In a vaccum all Tau units are sub par, the idea is to combine them with everyone's multiplier, the pathfinder.
At BS 3: 11 Vespid kill about 3-4 marines during the shooting phase or deals 1-2 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 4: 11 Vespid kill about 4-5 marines during the shooting phase or deals 2-3 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 5: 11 Vespid kill about 6 marines during the shooting phase or deals 3 wounds to a TMC.

If they fired 2 shots each, 182 points worth of vespid would nearly wipe a marine squad at BS 3 , reduce it to 1 at BS 4 and wipe it at BS 5. TMC would also not be a problem as statically they could kill a carnifex every turn with pathfinders or reduce them down to 1-2 wounds without pathfinders.

:Sigh: I think GW uses statistic as a means of figuring how much a point should cost point wise. Unfortunately the idea of being worth it in a specific situation if all goes according to plan, auto-dooms it. How often do things go to plan.

yeah, and the same amount of points in marines in the most generic nonspecial form (a tactical squad with a heavy bolter and plasma gun) kills more points worth of vespid (7.78) than the buffed two shot vespid do back (7.33). in exchange for the jump infantry rule (with reroll dangerous terrain), the marines get extra ws/bs/S and a 3+ save. the vespid are simply overpriced for what they do; the pathfinders don't change that any more than devastators make tactical marines better for their points. you pay separately for each and they don't have to be used in conjunction with each other. vespids need either a major point cost decrease, a major buff, or something midway incorporating them both. if they kept the same point cost, i'd expect base 2 rending attacks (to go along with their two CCW diamond claw fluff) and a 4+ save (hell, they've got full body chitin... that should be the same as carapace IG armor) at a minimum.

Reprisal wrote:Feel no pain with either no armor save or a 6+? Sounds foolish to me.

Some of these rumors look pretty cool. We tried the railgun idea out, and it's pretty nasty. More guns are the last thing a Tau player needs.

should I have put /sarcasm in there?

Kilkrazy wrote:There has been lots of fan suggestions for how to change the Tau codex, especially around making Fire Warriors useful for something.

None of it featured Railguns being an SM Libby Magic Power attack.

If Railguns get the rumoured rule, everyone will use nine Broadsides.

...There are people who take less than six (other than Farsight players...)?


For the whole thing about the rail 'ray'...my understanding of it was that it fired a slug at near-the speed of light. Said slug should penetrate multiple units and vehicles/buildings in a straight line. I mean, seriously, are space marines so awesome that Brother Leeroy catches one on the chin and the rest of his fellows bellow revenge-or would Brother Jenkins, Brother Wallace and Brother Bob who were all standing directly behind Brother Leeroy also get torn to atoms from the passage of the high velocity weapon, same with the squad behind them, Chaplin Meyo, and Brother Captain Royce?


Seriously though, look at what Space Marines and Imperial forces have at their disposal (in the game). I thought the Imperium of man was on a decline, fighting tooth and nail for everything they have...but they seem to be doing fine enough to have crap tons of tanks, and armies to go with (and based around) said tanks that despite all their great guns still want to run up and hit somebody with a glowing, chained or magical gak-beater stick.

Tau need to be there to say "Don't bring a knife (no matter how chained or powered) to a gun fight," and "Screw your wall o tanks and infantry". Mech armies (especially marines) have it coming.

Your worlds will burn until their surface is but glass. Your destruction is for the Greater Good, and we are instruments of Its most Glorious Path.