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Melissia wrote:It also means that if Conscripts/Hellhounds are updated in the IG codex the DH/I/GK/Whatever codex will be left in the dust again.

So? The WH/DH ISTs are clearly superior to their IG counterparts, so how is that possibly a bad thing?

If you make a Inquisition / Sisters army, you can be pretty sure of how it's going to play for the next decade. Awesome!

Melissia wrote:It also means that if Conscripts/Hellhounds are updated in the IG codex the DH/I/GK/Whatever codex will be left in the dust again.

That is my concern, too. Unless GW is going to start releasing PDF updates this arrangement is going to end up with more stuff like the Storm Shield whose rules depend on what colour armour you're wearing.

JohnHwangDD wrote:So? The WH/DH ISTs are clearly superior to their IG counterparts, so how is that possibly a bad thing?

... and yet, WH/DH ISTs still suck. IT's like saying 1 is greater than 0.97, well yeah, but that doesn't say much when there's a 7 there too. Regardless, it's a rather big issue with certain pieces of wargaear that have changed as the editions move on.

WTH are you talking about?

ISTs are far superior to IG Storrms or Veterans.

To IG stormies they're slightly superior if only because of costs issues-- and even then ISTs are lacking compared to almost any other unit of the same price.

Including veterans, whom are far more adaptable and can have more firepower in a single squad as well.

Melissia wrote:Deathwatch already got their own dedicated roleplay system and heavy influence in another. GW has no plans of introducing a new codex any time soon, just updating old ones to fifth edition.

Not to be rude but you would know this how?

As far as Grey Knights using Guard I've never even seen it used in fluff. Everything I've seen (including the books) is that the Grey Knights are the last resort, they are launched into the maw of hell (as was so nicely worded before) ALONE to face ALL of the daemons lesser or greater. I've never heard of them sending in guardsmen first to handle the smaller daemons while the Grey Knights go after "The Big Fish" that would be a useless tactic. Now that dosen't mean that the GK fight the entire horde if they don't have to, they prefer to cut the head off the snake and let the body die. And the only thing I've seen that comes close is their thrall type beings who are mind wiped so as to be harder for daemons to controle.

As far as the Dreadnoughts the question was asked about where it says that Grey Knights don't like to be entered into Dreadnoughts. I don't think it's relevant that other chapters members also dislike being entombed. The point is Grey Knights don't so IF a special walker exists it is justified.

For 70 points, I get 2 BS4 Plasma Guns with 3 ablative wounds.

You were saying?

The Inquisitors use the Guard.

The GKs come in when the guard cant handle the problem anymore.

wolfshadow wrote:The Inquisitors use the Guard.

The GKs come in when the guard cant handle the problem anymore.

Yup. The problem has been how to make Inquisitors, Assassins and Grey Knights into any semblance of a "proper" army.

JohnHwangDD wrote:For 70 points, I get 2 BS4 Plasma Guns with 3 ablative wounds.

You were saying?

Which are easily destroyed/routed and have no special rules whatsoever-- no deployment rules, no morale rules, no other special rules, their basic weapons are just as unspectacular, and their transports are lackluster due to the age of the codex. No kraks, no pistol+CCW, and they can only have shotguns if you have a certain white dwarf and your opponent's permission. And so on.

A squad of ten vets with pace, heavy flamer, 2x flamers, and shotguns can quite easily decimate two five-member stormtrooper squads with plasmaguns, and it costs less.

JohnHwangDD wrote:For 70 points, I get 2 BS4 Plasma Guns with 3 ablative wounds.

You were saying?

For 115 i get 3 BS4 plasma guns with 7 ablative wounds. and access to a cheap 55 point Caddy to ride in.
and for $1.09 i can get a Mcdouble....

You're paying more, which defeats the entire point.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You're paying more, which defeats the entire point.

No, i'm spending points wisely. not throwing them away.

This is a total guess, but what if the new walker is a Knight Titan? Codex creep has given us flyers galore, it may be time to start escalating with larger and more deadly walkers as well.

Personally I'm hoping that the new rules for DH/GKs are essentially the same as the current Codex but re-costed.

I love the mix, the fact that you can have an army that's part MEQ and part GEQ. I think they should scrap allies and bring some units into the Codex.

Now, as for the rumours, I don't believe them. I know one of the model designers and he was spot on in what he told me about the Dark Eldar (which I've posted about several times in the past). There will be GK plastic kits but he's said there's no new uber-exotic walker type model. And for the record, he designed Shadowsun and the Krootox, among other things. He says he's sorry for the difficulty in fitting together the latter...haha

Tired and in need of more coffee but a few initial comments.

- While I naturally take everything with a shovel full of salt at this stage, I can believe in access to the new IG vehicles. They want to sell more Valkyries and tanks (doh!).
- HQ selections releasing Troops options is obvious. It is SOP in all of the recent books.
- No orbital strike? Seriously? Does anyone actually use the POS that is the Deathstrike in regular 40K? Hell, Marine commanders get Orbital Bombardment, why not Inquisitors?

JohnHwangDD wrote:You're paying more, which defeats the entire point.

I'm also GETTING more. As I said, that single squad of HF/2F/Shotgun vets can and will destroy both squads of plasma ISTs. Maximum firepower on the move while not restricting its assault abilities, ignores cover saves, and also the HF ignores the ISTs' armor saves.

5-member squads of stormtroopers are easily destroyed no matter if it's ISTs or IGSTs.

If rumors are true i can't wait to see this oversized dreadnought

wolfshadow wrote:My planned force will be heavily GK centred. I like the idea of an Inquisitor for fluff and modelling reasons. If we get plastic stormies, this will mak me happy.

We shall see what happens.

Me too. I really wanted to have a straight up 'human' army, but I didn't want to cop to Vet spam, and I certainly didn't want to paint a horde of guys and tanks. While the Knights will be the focus, I will have a small non GK force to play around with, because the idea that normal humans are standing up against genetically and technologically enhanced Super Soldiers, monsters and demons is pretty cool to me.

But that will be waaaay down the road. Grey Knights are going to be first and foremost in my army selection.

AlexHolker wrote:

Melissia wrote:It also means that if Conscripts/Hellhounds are updated in the IG codex the DH/I/GK/Whatever codex will be left in the dust again.

That is my concern, too. Unless GW is going to start releasing PDF updates this arrangement is going to end up with more stuff like the Storm Shield whose rules depend on what colour armour you're wearing.

I don't understand why the players couldn't just agree (if GW didn't get off their backsides and do it officially) that if a new over-all codex (say Codex: Space Marines in comparison to Codex: Dark Angels) came out and had different effects for items (the storm shield) that the Dark Angel storm shield can have the same abilities as the SM storm shield, etc. I mean, it's standard equipment, I don't think it would vary much.

And if everybody just agreed with the simple, easy stuff like that-BAM it becomes official, without the GW Jabba raise it's girth to do something that's a simple easy fix. I'd figure that tournaments would allow that anyways-a Storm Shield is a Storm Shield :/

Similarly, I think that once it is finally out, all Space Marine chapters should have access to Storm Ravens-because it seems like it would be standard equipment for astartes chapters (like Power armor, and terminator armor). Chapter specific quirks like the Black Templars not tolerating Psykers (save grey knights) or Space Wolves not teleporting into battle should be maintained however. Draw the line at equipment-and do it down the line. No mixing and match-everything would change to the most recent, non Chapter Specific codex (so no librarian Dreadnoughts for Dark Angels or Vanilla Marines) but stay at the points cost at whatever the current codex says (example: pay the price in Codex: Dark Angels, but use the stats from Codex: Space Marines)

Trevak Dal - I see your point about all chapters having access to the same equipment, but I'm happy having chapter specific tech! They're not just different chapters for the fluff and a different colour armour, they're different play styles and different sets of strengths and weaknesses.
There are already so many builds available to vanilla marines, to give them furiosio dreads and baal predators is just broken.
I like having a different game play style from different chapters, if you made all vehicles available to all chapters it would just be a mess of too many options and not enough chapters fighting the way they were meant to.

Bring on the grey knights!!

Trevak Dal wrote:I don't understand why the players couldn't just agree (if GW didn't get off their backsides and do it officially) that if a new over-all codex (say Codex: Space Marines in comparison to Codex: Dark Angels) came out and had different effects for items (the storm shield) that the Dark Angel storm shield can have the same abilities as the SM storm shield, etc.

Because some players will not agree. Even if RAI says a DA SS should provide a 3++ always on save just like every other SS, some people will insist on the RAW version, especially if it's to their advantage, and especially in a tournament.

Trevak Dal wrote:I don't understand why the players couldn't just agree (if GW didn't get off their backsides and do it officially) that if a new over-all codex (say Codex: Space Marines in comparison to Codex: Dark Angels) came out and had different effects for items (the storm shield) that the Dark Angel storm shield can have the same abilities as the SM storm shield, etc. I mean, it's standard equipment, I don't think it would vary much.

Question for you: Is there any difference between a Rolls-Royce, Porsche, or Kia? Aren't they all the same, with four wheels and seats and a metal body? Isn't it the case that a new Cadillac makes all other cars identical?

No?

OK, how about burgers? McDonalds vs BK vs Wendys vs Five Guys, etc. They're all identical, too, right?

Then how is it that we expect the same level of sameness of varied forge worlds in 40k?

As a lover of all things walker, I can't wait to see if this is true, and hope it is - something like a heavily uparmored penitent engine. If you could man it as a PAGK, that would essentially remove the need for a GK dread - though I never found GK Dreadnoughts to be unfluffy, either. It's pretty clear why GK's don't want to be dreadnoughts, but they also may have reasons - a crusade unfinished, a specific nemesis unvanquished - that would explain the occasional, very rare, GK dread.

Still, new walkers always nice!

Gitzbitah wrote:This is a total guess, but what if the new walker is a Knight Titan? Codex creep has given us flyers galore, it may be time to start escalating with larger and more deadly walkers as well.

Its supposedly piloted by a GK in Power armour, so I would guess no. A Knight would have an Adeptus Titanicus/Adeptus Mechanicus pilot.

Again, unconfirmed rumors have it similar in size to the Penitent Engine, IIRC....

if they allow me to have storm ravens. And make grey knights plastic! Inquisition here i come!

An all Valk/Stormraven army would be awesome, but way too expensive for me to consider.

Plastic grey knights are my dream....

Asherian Command wrote:Plastic grey knights are my dream....

Then your dreams will be fullfilled between Jan-March. :-)

wolfshadow wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Plastic grey knights are my dream....

Then your dreams will be fullfilled between Jan-March. :-)

Now I am dreaming of getting a phone call from the Girl I like *thumbs patiently*
"Ah , Only works with 40k!" *Shots a grenade launcher at a Eldar player*
Now I wish that I could get 500 space marines! in grand total!