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Lint wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:And ya, it's this kinda gak response that's not helping. It's not funny dude. It's not something you should laugh at at the best of times, and frankly, in a thread full of people with strong feelings, that kind of comment really derails what could otherwise be an enjoyable if intense debate.
Jokes like that belong on x-box live man. lol

Nothing wrong with injecting humour into the debate... It's like laughing at cartoon characters burning eachother with flamethrowers. Obviously if you saw it happening irl it would not be something to laugh at. Maybe you didn't get the sarcasm in the joke?

I get what you are going for, and in most cases I'd laugh... but the 'other side' would catch that and lump the rest of us trying to be serious about discussing it in with you as if you were serious... I did see your previous post while writing this and it makes it much clearer your line of jokezez tho

It's edgy, it's dodgy.

It happens.

Overall, meh. There are only implications to this, this only has meaning, if we give it meaning.

Honestly? We know what's going to happen. So what? Yes, it's a terrible thing, and quite controversial to depict, but honestly, it's just another human act. We give it meaning by choice.

Accolade wrote:In my opinion, I think that the "you're a hypocrite if you are repulsed by the sexuality of this piece but are okay with extreme violence" isn't necessarily a fair point.

I've been seeing this quite a lot over on CMON, and I'm sick of it, especially since there isn't a single shred of evidence presented that any poster who has said they don't like this piece has actually stood up and applauded any depiction of extreme violence.

My own $.02 is that, even though we're in a hobby that depicts conflict and violence (and yes depravity, you sick, sick DE/EC players you!) and all sorts of unspeakable horrors go on in the universes (fictional or otherwise) in which gamers play, there's usually a degree of restraint when presenting the material. Some go a bit too heavy on the grimdark, and when they do I look elsewhere. I like a degree of fantasy in my hobby; it's a chance to use my imagination a bit and have fun. I find over-the-top gory violence distasteful (both in miniature and in film,) and seek my entertainment elsewhere. But when something like imminent rape (or even attempted; she just might reach that knife and show 'em all what's what,) is presented, then suddenly the hobby stops being fun for me, and is suddenly invaded with reminders of the very real and horrible things that people do to each other, some of which I have to deal with regularly at work (believe me, if you ever have to treat someone who is a victim of rape, you'll suddenly find that you have absolutely no sense of humor where it is concerned.) I thought about "Casualties of War" too, A.B.R., when I saw this piece, which accounts for some of the strength of my reaction to it.

While I love miniature painting, and am constantly delighted at the imagination, skill, dedication, and talent that so many artists and sculptors display, I draw the line at pretentious "high art" that purports to "make a statement" or "evoke a reaction" or other such nonsense. And I also think that it is unnecessary to go some places; this is one of them. Some of Nakotina's work ranks very high on my list of favorites, and I'm disappointed that he went this direction. I'm not at all convinced that he was trying for any high-minded artistic endeavor, and the very name "Alien Contact" seems to be making a joke of the entire situation which, combined with various visual/technical elements, leaves me with more of a "hurr hurr, boobies!" impression than anything else.

Well it boils down to what you want to get out of the hobby really Gearhead. For you it might just be about the fun and games but others might want to inject a bit of thought into it (I'm not condoning or condemning either side of the coin by the way). I think what the OP has managed to do is to make me stop and think for a moment about the realities of this game. Maybe we do trivialise the scenes we're depicting too much sometimes, and maybe we need to be reminded that real war isn't fun and games at all, or at least it shouldn't be.
I'd like to read what the OP has to say about the intention of the piece.

Frazzled wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Does there need to be a diorama about it? It's an overarching theme throughout all of 40k. But forget about genocide, then. What about the art that depict graphic violence? Why is that less of a problem?

graphic violence against killer fungi...

Okay.

Raping a space elf is more serious?

jackanory wrote:I'd like to read what the OP has to say about the intention of the piece.

I'm going by what he said in posting this, and please understand I am not attempting to attack him personally, but instead I am trying to take apart the defense of "if you like violence but not sex/rape, you're a hypocrite". I think pointing out that he does not condone rape does nothing for his argument for this piece. Exactly who would support it? Making this disclaimer does nothing to change the nature of this piece. As for the "don't blame me if you like violence," I explained this in my last post, it has less to do with the graphic qualities and more about the use of power over another defenseless creature.

Monster Rain wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Does there need to be a diorama about it? It's an overarching theme throughout all of 40k. But forget about genocide, then. What about the art that depict graphic violence? Why is that less of a problem?

graphic violence against killer fungi...

Okay.

Raping a space elf is more serious?

Space elves are just human analogs. They might as well be humans with pointy ears, they're so identical. When you look at the piece, especially with no 40k background, you see soldiers engaged in rape of a female in space suit. So I can see why people take this seriously. Yes 40k is quite silly at times, but I don't think calling them space elves in this situation balances out against depictions of war between human and giant green humans (i.e. orks).

This being said, I wouldn't really be okay if this was a Tau female or even some big Tyranid bug. It is still domination/torture over another. It is not the human being that is alone in this defense.

I'm kind of surprised that so many people have such an issue with this and(supposedly) play the game at the same time.

I suppose your models on the tabletop are only playing paintball in the shooting phase and just tagging each other out in the assault phase?

Tzeentchling9 wrote:I'm kind of surprised that so many people have such an issue with this and(supposedly) play the game at the same time.

I suppose your models on the tabletop are only playing paintball in the shooting phase and just tagging each other out in the assault phase?

We all understand this is a game about war, and war is chock-full of atrocities, innumerable and wretched as they are. Rape is consequence of war. Nobody is arguing about the reality of war or the material the game is about. What we are arguing about is the depiction of acts of domination and torture over *largely* defenseless being. Although it is being displayed through the medium of 4k, it doesn't just apply to this game. It applies to any art form in which it is described. For me, it's not as though I'm okay with the topic if it's displayed in a movie or written in a book as compared to little figurines...I am still uncomfortable with it.

Another point that has been on my mind has to do with the genders in this situation, which goes back to the Wet Nurse Kingdom Death model. I sincerely doubt that you would see the level of support for this model if it were depicting men raping each other. I am somewhat curious what effect being a guy has on your outlook of this piece, being what it is. I also think that this diorama would be offensive to most females; (I would believe) it's a completely different viewpoint on the other side.

I think part of the reason I am making a such big deal about this is because whenever someone brings up opposition to the piece, they are shot down automatically for playing this game about war. It's as though the two viewpoints about enjoying a relatively dark-themed tabletop war game and being uncomfortable with displays of torture and rape are mutually exclusive, that I find the most irritating.

P/M: Great work on the painting and modeling. You truly have talent. The colors for everything were perfect and really caught the mood. My suggestions are that you could have made the eldar guardian more tattered looking rather that just "oops my boob plate fell off... but at least my armor is spotless ". Kinda just made it seem a attemt at showing people ur passion for elf boobs rather than capturing the seriousness and artistic side to the piece. Also how the guy is holding the chest piece doesnt sit right with me for some reson... just looks unatural.

Fluff: This is an eldar who lived thousands of years and has used alot of it training and fighting for war. Male of female eldar stand much taller than average humans and are much stronger and faster. I think she will likely take that lasgun from that guy and rape them all with it in the next scene. Also do eldar even have compatable reproductive organs to humans? They are aliens for all intents and purposes dispite there outwardly human appearence... idk if its even anotomically possible for human males to mate with eldar females. I know back in rouge trader days there were human/eldar hybrids but they drifted away from that. All irrelivant as the clear point is shock value and that artist clear attention to detail both modeling and paint wise.

Morality: Some people need to grow up. Yes its a harsh topic, but in my analitical mind its no different than any other act of violence or torture that 40k paints in our minds. Slaaneshi daemons are written as doing far worse than whats depicted here. The only difference here is the splash of sexuality involved with the violence. This makes some people uncomfortable as in most societies rape is one of the ultimate social tabboos and rightly so. This doesnt mean we should sherk away from it or sweep the subject under the rug because it makes the insecure squeemish, look at it, accept it happens, feel the spectum of emotions it evokes, then move on with your day, be an adult. Look at it like you would anyother graphic piece of art. But its just as much a part of 40k as anything else and FOR ADULT AUDENCES this is a very origional and well thought out way of depicting just another facet of our grimdark universe we like to escape to once and awhile.

REAL LIFE!: On the real side of things this is a good chance to raise awarness for this hanous crime. 1 in 4 women over the age of 18 have been raped in some form or another in there life (in america, srry forgot to add that for you guys over the pond... ur not a sick as us apparently ). The shame and fact that IT IS such a social taboo means that most women wont speak out about it and will just pretend it never happend, meaning that offenders arent brought to justice and in all likely hood will repet there crimes. Take a stand against this, shine light on to this dark topic and look for ways you can help lower these sickening statistics and the poor victims of a crime that doesnt need to be so frequent.

Hello,
I saw this a few days ago and showed it to a friend, we both mentioned how it was a well done piece and told the story it was supposed to, that said I found it disturbing as a subject, but not over done, not for shock value, so it did what all art is supposed to, create a emotional response. Great job on the piece.

Regards,
Carl

I think this scene is a reminder that war is hell.

jackanory wrote:
I'd like to read what the OP has to say about the intention of the piece.

It took 2 months to complete (yeah, i slow painter/modeller)
I wanted to do a scene never seen before, and i personally have a painting-modelling experience i never have before. That `boobs` (and her belly, and, hardest of all her left leg) was test of my modeller skills - i like to sculpt and i needed some trainig. it was really hard for me to do the boobs same-sized!)


I put that obivous knife in the dirt to point out - she CAN escape.
and yeah)... i forgot to do tank tracks) actually there are one track, but this is not enough)

From a modellng, painting and sculpting perspective it is extremely well done, yes there are minor flaws but the details are excellent.

As for the subject matter, Im 50/50 on it, personally I do think its a little too grim dark for 40k, as someone mentioned in the other locked thread, yes 40k is grimdark but its done in an over the top, almost comical way.
Take the Orks for example, they are arguably ther most ultraviolent and destructive race in the game but every codex portrays them as having this almost happy go lucky, comical feel to them, hence it takes the edge off their extreme violence.
Nurgle, portrayed as one of the evil Chaos Gods is nicknamed "Grandfather". Come on, thats almost cute in its conotations.
Space Marines, some of the most vicious killers in the Galaxy are often portrayed as honourable and likable in many cases.
etc etc etc

Having said that I agree that scenes like this are part of war and as such can be included as legitimate subject matter.

I'll echo another posters question: If this was a scene from FoW with some Germans surrounding a French freedom fighter or from say a modern day war game with a group of Somali gangsters around a US female Marine would it illicit the same responses?

Monster Rain wrote:Okay.

Raping a space elf is more serious?

It's not about what is the more serious and forcing comparisons with the various other horrors of war, some things are more affecting than others regardless of the prison sentence they would carry. Most people would agree that one human life is worth the same as another, but the graphic suffering of children affects people more than the pain of men. That's just the way it is and why the suffering of children on TV provides the images of greatest impact from any conflict. By the arguments here, if we're happy to see games where men die, then we should have no issue with the mass butchering of a nursery of children.

For me the piece shows a lot of hope for the Eldar's escape the knife every one has pointed out, the grim defiant look on her face, and the knowledge we have as followers of the hobby that Eldar are fast agile well trained warriors. I feel that her posture and her face hint that she knows that there is the guards man behind her and that she is formulating an escape plan in her head. I think it's obvious who the the true ring leaders of this squad are, both the officer and the sergeant have no control of the situation. The sergeant seams distracted from the situation as if weighing up his own actions and how to act next, the officer is simply helping the other guys in there actions while the driver comes across as the lackey watching from the side lines. That at least is my interpretation of the scene.

As for the fluff I don't see how this couldn't happen simply based on imperial doctrine. Yes as a whole the ideals of the imperium are such that no human would soil them self in this way but we all know that this isn't the way every single human feels in the 40K universe. Many imperial regiments are formed from gangers, prisoners, and the general dregs of society, why then would it be unthinkable for some of these people to carry out such acts ?

The artistic merits of the piece are clear for all to see the painting and modelling skills involved are beyond question I think that's almost the only thing we all agree on here. I have no criticism to add that hasn't already been pointed out. I just wish i could paint faces half as well, mine are generally expressionless and I just can't do eye's so the way you have detailed the skin and faces in particular are my favourite aspects of the piece as a whole.

The subject matter is obviously controversial but no more then we see depicted in films, art (of allkinds ), books, TV shows both fictional and documentary , comics, computer games, internet sites, and so on. Rape is simply a subject that many will accept in different ways, personally I see no problem with this to me it is neither pornographic or vulgar. However many out there as shown in this thread alone will feel very differently. I believe that you could show this piece to victims of rape and get exactly the same divided opinions. It is a simple fact that if you don't like this piece don't look at it and by all means say why you don't like it but don't berate the artist with out reason.

In closing I like the piece the work is of an out standing level and portrays some thing that many would find impossible to show in a tasteful way if at all. The subject mater although controversial is a fact of life be it our real life or the fictional world that a game is based. This is clearly not a gaming piece and not for children it will never be shown in white dwarf or displayed at games day but it was created as a show case and I feel the artist has delivered in so many ways.

Whilst the diorama is very well done ineed and there has been some restraint shown which was good to see as the scene depicted could be a few different translations, the most shocking bit of the whole thing is

WARNING! SHOCKING CONTENT! 18+ Absolutely NO minors and hypocrites!

Now that I DO have issues with. You have already sanctified your creation, have already some up with arguments for the subject matter and, most disgustingly, already judged those who might object as hypocrites!

Laughing God wrote:Morality: Some people need to grow up. Yes its a harsh topic, but in my analitical mind its no different than any other act of violence or torture that 40k paints in our minds. Slaaneshi daemons are written as doing far worse than whats depicted here. The only difference here is the splash of sexuality involved with the violence. This makes some people uncomfortable as in most societies rape is one of the ultimate social tabboos and rightly so. This doesnt mean we should sherk away from it or sweep the subject under the rug because it makes the insecure squeemish, look at it, accept it happens, feel the spectum of emotions it evokes, then move on with your day, be an adult. Look at it like you would anyother graphic piece of art. But its just as much a part of 40k as anything else and FOR ADULT AUDENCES this is a very origional and well thought out way of depicting just another facet of our grimdark universe we like to escape to once and awhile.

Excellently put sir!

L. Wrex

Gearhead wrote:

Accolade wrote:In my opinion, I think that the "you're a hypocrite if you are repulsed by the sexuality of this piece but are okay with extreme violence" isn't necessarily a fair point.

I've been seeing this quite a lot over on CMON, and I'm sick of it, especially since there isn't a single shred of evidence presented that any poster who has said they don't like this piece has actually stood up and applauded any depiction of extreme violence.

My own $.02 is that, even though we're in a hobby that depicts conflict and violence (and yes depravity, you sick, sick DE/EC players you!) and all sorts of unspeakable horrors go on in the universes (fictional or otherwise) in which gamers play, there's usually a degree of restraint when presenting the material. Some go a bit too heavy on the grimdark, and when they do I look elsewhere. I like a degree of fantasy in my hobby; it's a chance to use my imagination a bit and have fun. I find over-the-top gory violence distasteful (both in miniature and in film,) and seek my entertainment elsewhere. But when something like imminent rape (or even attempted; she just might reach that knife and show 'em all what's what,) is presented, then suddenly the hobby stops being fun for me, and is suddenly invaded with reminders of the very real and horrible things that people do to each other, some of which I have to deal with regularly at work (believe me, if you ever have to treat someone who is a victim of rape, you'll suddenly find that you have absolutely no sense of humor where it is concerned.) I thought about "Casualties of War" too, A.B.R., when I saw this piece, which accounts for some of the strength of my reaction to it.

While I love miniature painting, and am constantly delighted at the imagination, skill, dedication, and talent that so many artists and sculptors display, I draw the line at pretentious "high art" that purports to "make a statement" or "evoke a reaction" or other such nonsense. And I also think that it is unnecessary to go some places; this is one of them. Some of Nakotina's work ranks very high on my list of favorites, and I'm disappointed that he went this direction. I'm not at all convinced that he was trying for any high-minded artistic endeavor, and the very name "Alien Contact" seems to be making a joke of the entire situation which, combined with various visual/technical elements, leaves me with more of a "hurr hurr, boobies!" impression than anything else.

Exactly.

Frazzled wrote:

Gearhead wrote:

Accolade wrote:In my opinion, I think that the "you're a hypocrite if you are repulsed by the sexuality of this piece but are okay with extreme violence" isn't necessarily a fair point.

I've been seeing this quite a lot over on CMON, and I'm sick of it, especially since there isn't a single shred of evidence presented that any poster who has said they don't like this piece has actually stood up and applauded any depiction of extreme violence.

My own $.02 is that, even though we're in a hobby that depicts conflict and violence (and yes depravity, you sick, sick DE/EC players you!) and all sorts of unspeakable horrors go on in the universes (fictional or otherwise) in which gamers play, there's usually a degree of restraint when presenting the material. Some go a bit too heavy on the grimdark, and when they do I look elsewhere. I like a degree of fantasy in my hobby; it's a chance to use my imagination a bit and have fun. I find over-the-top gory violence distasteful (both in miniature and in film,) and seek my entertainment elsewhere. But when something like imminent rape (or even attempted; she just might reach that knife and show 'em all what's what,) is presented, then suddenly the hobby stops being fun for me, and is suddenly invaded with reminders of the very real and horrible things that people do to each other, some of which I have to deal with regularly at work (believe me, if you ever have to treat someone who is a victim of rape, you'll suddenly find that you have absolutely no sense of humor where it is concerned.) I thought about "Casualties of War" too, A.B.R., when I saw this piece, which accounts for some of the strength of my reaction to it.

While I love miniature painting, and am constantly delighted at the imagination, skill, dedication, and talent that so many artists and sculptors display, I draw the line at pretentious "high art" that purports to "make a statement" or "evoke a reaction" or other such nonsense. And I also think that it is unnecessary to go some places; this is one of them. Some of Nakotina's work ranks very high on my list of favorites, and I'm disappointed that he went this direction. I'm not at all convinced that he was trying for any high-minded artistic endeavor, and the very name "Alien Contact" seems to be making a joke of the entire situation which, combined with various visual/technical elements, leaves me with more of a "hurr hurr, boobies!" impression than anything else.

Exactly.

My question to both of you then is do you disagree with any form of brutal art that might suggest sexual violence or suffering? If you saw a painting or sculpture in a gallery eluding to pain and suffering perhaps in a sexual nature would you say the piece never should have been made?

How is this any different? Because it’s based in a fictional theme you play?

Just curious

Elmodiddly wrote:Whilst the diorama is very well done ineed and there has been some restraint shown which was good to see as the scene depicted could be a few different translations, the most shocking bit of the whole thing is

WARNING! SHOCKING CONTENT! 18+ Absolutely NO minors and hypocrites!

Now that I DO have issues with. You have already sanctified your creation, have already some up with arguments for the subject matter and, most disgustingly, already judged those who might object as hypocrites!

As i said before, on our russian forum that diorama gathered 16 pages of rather aggressive comments and flood. Here on Dakka it had been banned in a gallery, Astronomican forum banned this as well. Some people on cmon and other forums say some truly disgusting and offencive things about me, somebody `because there were no warnig about content and they were forced to watch this`. So when i posted subj here, i posted a warn too. just simple as that. And i already said enough about hypocrisy and double standarts all around the world. If somebody counts that theme `tabooed`, he will read the warning. No offence in my words, no offence in my works.

A couple of points:
1) It's absolutely fine (and in fact, healthy IMHO) that some people don't care for this diorama (though I think it's fantastic). But surely we should all be able to agree that launching personal attacks at Nakatan for it is inappropriate.

2) I don't think it's fair to call this scene GRIMDARK. GRIMDARK is a sarcastic description of the over-the-top-ness of 40K. When whole worlds get virus-bombed just to stamp out a cult or Khorne berzerkers spend 20,000 years in the warp practicing killing, it takes things into unrelatable territory. What makes GRIMDARK GRIMDARK isn't that it's uncomfortable or painful or scary- it's that it's enormous in scope and teaspoon-shallow in depth. 40K takes place on a scale that is vast and impersonal and in doing so loses most of it's relatability. There aren't real people in 40K, just larger-than-life heroes and villains who can apparently wade through an inferno unharmed as long as they shout and point and hold their swords over their heads while they walk. And that GRIMDARKness exists so that the people playing with toy soldiers don't have to stop and think about the morality of their characters. Everything is too big and abstract for most people to really feel like it matters. Hence, GRIMDARK.

Nakatan's piece doesn't have any of that. It has real human feeling. These characters have been a part of the human experience for as long as we've been around. It's not larger-than-life. And I would wager that a lot of the objection people have toward it is that it makes them confront uncomfortable feelings they'd rather not imagine. Maybe that's why we've had so many people protest that real Imperial Guardsmen would never have such close contact with an alien. If people can have that kind of emotional reaction to Nakatan's diorama, then it definitely is not GRIMDARK. You may not like it, and that's okay. But give it the credit it's due.

JOHIRA wrote:A couple of points:
1) It's absolutely fine (and in fact, healthy IMHO) that some people don't care for this diorama (though I think it's fantastic). But surely we should all be able to agree that launching personal attacks at Nakatan for it is inappropriate.

2) I don't think it's fair to call this scene GRIMDARK. GRIMDARK is a sarcastic description of the over-the-top-ness of 40K. When whole worlds get virus-bombed just to stamp out a cult or Khorne berzerkers spend 20,000 years in the warp practicing killing, it takes things into unrelatable territory. What makes GRIMDARK GRIMDARK isn't that it's uncomfortable or painful or scary- it's that it's enormous in scope and teaspoon-shallow in depth. 40K takes place on a scale that is vast and impersonal and in doing so loses most of it's relatability. There aren't real people in 40K, just larger-than-life heroes and villains who can apparently wade through an inferno unharmed as long as they shout and point and hold their swords over their heads while they walk. And that GRIMDARKness exists so that the people playing with toy soldiers don't have to stop and think about the morality of their characters. Everything is too big and abstract for most people to really feel like it matters. Hence, GRIMDARK.

Nakatan's piece doesn't have any of that. It has real human feeling. These characters have been a part of the human experience for as long as we've been around. It's not larger-than-life. And I would wager that a lot of the objection people have toward it is that it makes them confront uncomfortable feelings they'd rather not imagine. Maybe that's why we've had so many people protest that real Imperial Guardsmen would never have such close contact with an alien. If people can have that kind of emotional reaction to Nakatan's diorama, then it definitely is not GRIMDARK. You may not like it, and that's okay. But give it the credit it's due.

QFT

It took quite a while to think of what to post on this...

...modelling/painting wise its exceptional, composition wise its abysmal. Now before you jump on me for saying that I actually do have some personal reference for this: I have played some fairly dark rpgs in the past and a few years ago I decided to look into the reality of certain things... I was going through a phase of looking into psycology and such... so I challenged myself to confront the acts in my own way. I researched rape and its effects quite heavilly and drew two pictures depicting scenes similar to the one here... the prelude to the possibility of it. I made sure the anatomy was correct and really pushed myself to be as 'accurate' in the emotion of the moment as I could be. The result was two pieces of work that are graphic and quite frankly, disturbing and thought provoking. And that last bit is where my issue is with this piece: it could have been a thought provoking scene. It is for certain one that has sparked heated debate but fails for one reason... we are debating the piece itself and not the subject it is trying to depict. For me what could have been a fabulous commentary on the morality of war (with perhaps two of the guardmen arguing...) has been taken to a mere low level of a shock piece. ( especially with that title )

The skill with emotional/storytelling capabilites shown on other models the OP has done is utterly absent here. Rather than of deep offense to me it is so much a missed opportunity. I should note this isn't the sort of thing I like to see in artwork of any form simply for the 'pleasure' of seeing it; this subject should only be treated with thought and perhaps most of all, the depiction of it using 40k is a perhaps its biggest mistake - though I haven't fully decided on that myself yet. As for people utterly hating this: quite frankly that is to be accepted and not judged against... were this more emotive I would find it horrible to look at myself, as it should be. But as it stands I simply believe it heavilly flawed.

Now this is just my take on it... not some final judgement... this piece will evoke drastically different responses from everyone.

Edit: And heck NO, my pictures will not be posted anywhere for anyone to see.

How can any of us sit in judgement of this piece?

We can only look at it and express our opinion of it, we cannot condone it as being fit, right, wrong, offensive whatever. It is what it is.

We play a game in which acts of exteme violence are accepted as the norm. I remember a diorama a few years back which depicted the execution of a guardsman by a commissar because he was wounded, should cold blooded murder not be condemned in the same way that this is?

Armaggedon had the entire population of the planet condemned to sterilisation and placed into single sex workcamps until death. Sorry but I didn't see any condemnation for the 'final solution' being depicted there.

If we condemn this piece we should condemn ourselves for taking part in a hobby which makes light of serious issues. At most we should only express our opinion.

In my case, fantastic skill in painting and composing the piece, but not on my list of favorites.

Cheers

Andrew

Nakatan wrote:

Elmodiddly wrote:Whilst the diorama is very well done ineed and there has been some restraint shown which was good to see as the scene depicted could be a few different translations, the most shocking bit of the whole thing is

WARNING! SHOCKING CONTENT! 18+ Absolutely NO minors and hypocrites!

Now that I DO have issues with. You have already sanctified your creation, have already some up with arguments for the subject matter and, most disgustingly, already judged those who might object as hypocrites!

As i said before, on our russian forum that diorama gathered 16 pages of rather aggressive comments and flood. Here on Dakka it had been banned in a gallery, Astronomican forum banned this as well. Some people on cmon and other forums say some truly disgusting and offencive things about me, somebody `because there were no warnig about content and they were forced to watch this`. So when i posted subj here, i posted a warn too. just simple as that. And i already said enough about hypocrisy and double standarts all around the world. If somebody counts that theme `tabooed`, he will read the warning. No offence in my words, no offence in my works.

There is an issue here with what you call hypocrisy and what people try to shoehorn into an acceptable genre using pseudo-educated arguments about war being an adult subject so therefore all aspects of war are fine to add into the hobby. If I don't like your diorama because it is a subject I don't like, I am the hypocrite? Don't think so.

You could have just said "Here's my diorama it is of an adult theme" that would have been it because the diorama is open to interpretation. It isn't what the thing is because that is well done, it is how you've done it.

You're posting an item which you label as 18+ only, which you say is about rape, on a website where there are children present in abundance. Knowing full well that you have put an adult themed photo on an open website which is frequented by children is pretty disgusting IMO.

Then again that is the whole point, isn't it; to illicit a response and get attention?

I love the fading conscript stripe on that one guardsmen. Of all the things to notice...

FLAME WARS!

Straying a bit from the origional subject here, but it clearly says no under 18's, same thing with pornagraphic websites (not that I would know **cough**)
If you are under 18, dont press it, same thing thing with pornagrapic websites, both he and them have fordilled their obligation to warn any people that
stray onto there that the following pages contain elicit pictures.

On another note, its a great looking diorama, very realistic that must have been damn hard to do!

AndrewC wrote:How can any of us sit in judgement of this piece?

Its on the Showcase forum.

Frazzled wrote:Its on the Showcase forum.

Frazzled, you missed the point.

We can and should comment on his ability to paint and model figures. We should not make judgement on what it depicts.

So if I were to create and model a diarama of the population of Armageddon being led into work/concentration camps it would be acceptable?

Cheers

Andrew

AndrewC wrote:
So if I were to create and model a diorama of the population of Armageddon being led into work/concentration camps it would be acceptable?

Very good point Andrew, this is most definitely in the fluff, and if anything may be an even more sensitive topic.