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I love Ultramarines. The sound they make when they crush like soda cans under AP3 large blasts is somewhat nicer than most other Chapters. I think it's all the extra bling.

Seriously though, the reason why I don't care for them is the same reason why I dislike Superman.

Superman:
- No perceived weakness (okay, Kryptonite, but how many times does that actually stop him?)
- No internal strife or moral dilemma. (Good is so easy. Why aren't YOU this good?)
- Any time he runs into a problem he can't solve, he gains a new power, and one that COMPLETELY destroys any sense of immersion. (Okay, he flies around because he's from a low gravity planet or some silliness. Fine. Wait, he's reversing time by spinning the planet backwards...WAT?)
- Gets in fights with Batman.
- Doesn't actually DO anything (this is subject of some argument. As I recall, he basically doesn't do anything of major use in stopping the majority of the villains he deals with. At least not on a permanent basis. Luthor is still out in the wild at the end of the day, it takes his daughter along with The Atom to do anything about Mastermind. He only stops Doomsday AFTER Doomsday kills him. Oh, but Superman can't die cause it's doubleplus good!)

Ultramarines:

- No perceived weakness. We are the ultramureens and we're doubleplus good, 'cause I said so.
- No internal strife or moral dilemma.
- Anytime they run into a problem they can't solve, they gain a new weapon or something. Hellfire rounds anyone?
- Gets in fights with Batman. Well, okay, maybe not this one.
- Doesn't actually DO anything. When was the last time they did something that wasn't on Macragge? Oh, they wrote a book... I like books, but you're the warrior-priests of the far future. Little more warrioring and a little less priesting, please.

So I can't right out say I hate them, because honestly, they're not really exciting enough one way or another to even be evocative of hate, let alone any other emotion.

Really Ultramarines are like the paper coffee cup sitting on my desk: It serves a purpose and is fully functional, but it's just something to cast aside and forget about at the end of the day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SumYungGui wrote:
Will you accept the hot, hot geneseed?

Oh, and this is gross.

One of the reason I dislike Ultramarines in the first place was due to the fact that at my FLGS every space marine player plays Ultramarines. One even used a Proxy Ultramarine army with no special characters (how does that even work? Note that the guy painted up his marines red and black, but specifically said they were proxying for ultramarines. Not a successor chapter, not anything else, just proxying AS Ultramarines). During campaigns it wasnt "Good vs evil" it was "Ultramarine VS everything else", simply because the "evil" forces got outnumbered by the Ultras so much, they had to pull every other faction into the evil side just to make it slightly less handicapped.

daedalus wrote:I love Ultramarines. The sound they make when they crush like soda cans under AP3 large blasts is somewhat nicer than most other Chapters. I think it's all the extra bling.

Seriously though, the reason why I don't care for them is the same reason why I dislike Superman.

Superman:
- No perceived weakness (okay, Kryptonite, but how many times does that actually stop him?)
- No internal strife or moral dilemma. (Good is so easy. Why aren't YOU this good?)
- Any time he runs into a problem he can't solve, he gains a new power, and one that COMPLETELY destroys any sense of immersion. (Okay, he flies around because he's from a low gravity planet or some silliness. Fine. Wait, he's reversing time by spinning the planet backwards...WAT?)
- Gets in fights with Batman.
- Doesn't actually DO anything (this is subject of some argument. As I recall, he basically doesn't do anything of major use in stopping the majority of the villains he deals with. At least not on a permanent basis. Luthor is still out in the wild at the end of the day, it takes his daughter along with The Atom to do anything about Mastermind. He only stops Doomsday AFTER Doomsday kills him. Oh, but Superman can't die cause it's doubleplus good!)

Ultramarines:

- No perceived weakness. We are the ultramureens and we're doubleplus good, 'cause I said so.
- No internal strife or moral dilemma.
- Anytime they run into a problem they can't solve, they gain a new weapon or something. Hellfire rounds anyone?
- Gets in fights with Batman. Well, okay, maybe not this one.
- Doesn't actually DO anything. When was the last time they did something that wasn't on Macragge? Oh, they wrote a book... I like books, but you're the warrior-priests of the far future. Little more warrioring and a little less priesting, please.

So I can't right out say I hate them, because honestly, they're not really exciting enough one way or another to even be evocative of hate, let alone any other emotion.

Really Ultramarines are like the paper coffee cup sitting on my desk: It serves a purpose and is fully functional, but it's just something to cast aside and forget about at the end of the day.

If you compare Ultramarines and Superman does that mean Batman is better than the Ultramarines?

Batman is a grouchy McGrouchypants that needs to get laid more often.

To Americano or whatever the original poster's name was:

You paint your army however you want. If that color scheme makes you excited to paint your miniatures, then do it. On a side note, how many of their armies are actually painted and not grey or primer?

The Irony of the writings that the Ultramarines are the absolute best is that the army is a jack of all trades, master of none force.

space marines are Eunuchs.

They also need more cowbell.

CT GAMER wrote:

Mighty Simo wrote:As people have said it's because the Ultramarines are crammed down our throat and quite frankly alot people get fed up seeing/hearing "Ultramarines this...Ultramarines that..."

Maybe take a break from the game if toy soldiers get you this worked up?

Go outside, get some exercise? Deep breathing also helps...

Jeez, take your own advice, will you? We're just trying to have a friendly discussion here, and you come in all like "GOD YOU GUYS ARE DICKS STFU!"

I happen to think this thread has gone pretty well so far, the OP got a reasonable answer to his question and no one but you has really had any problem with it.

purplefood wrote:
If you compare Ultramarines and Superman does that mean Batman is better than the Ultramarines?

Well, given how similar I find Ultramarines to Superman, I'd say that Batman would build a giant suit made of Tyranids powered off the city's electrical grid and beat the Ultramarines into oblivion.

And yes, yes he is.

theamericanos wrote:...Why are they hated

Have you seen thier new movie, oh wow.

Just kidding, they are awesome, dont listen to nay sayers, tell you this, no matter how many times the rules get changed, you are sure to be fine with this as your army!

SumYungGui wrote:

I have to disagree, I think with bonds of brotherhood...and life without women.

Sounds like Dakka ...

Ultras are hated because they are proud, semi-arrogant, their world is nice (vs caliban*, nocturne baal or icy-puppy land), they are the default and there is an implied 'noob'ness about painting your army the default colour. They have a disproportionate amount of rules, characters and fluff (not so due to BA/SW as much though)

Also UM aren't the 'source' of all other chapters... there are lots of other first foundings... BA, SW, Sallies, Dark Angels ... I'm surprised the Sallies haven't gotten much love at all... but I hope that that will change soon


*as in not-exploded

Phototoxin wrote:Ultras are hated because they are proud, semi-arrogant, their world is nice (vs caliban*, nocturne baal or icy-puppy land)

How come that it's always the poor Templar who get left out when someone mentions the Chapters with their own dexes? Anyhow, the sparkly marines, wolfrines and the supersecret marines should be glad that they at least have a homeworld, unlike the apegak marines, who has to fly around in the cold, dark space to find someone to steal lunch money from!

ive made a unanimus decision with myself to create a red scorpion army. Its going to be fun!!!

I always hated them because the dopes always paint the 'U' for 'Ultramarine' on their shoulders upside down. You'd think someone would have noticed this chapter-wide dyslexia.

Basically, the Ultramarines are the bomb. Their Primarch took over where the Emperor left off. Their little section of space is relatively safe and well maintained. There isn't anything wrong with their color scheme (although I agree that people will tend to see blue power armor and assume "noob," but I think they'll change their minds of the work is 1/2 decent).

They aren't the most powerful Marine Codex (how many forum posts do you see calling SW or BA cheesy? And how many do you see calling plain-jane vanilla marines cheesy? Exactly). They don't have the sweetest characters. But They are exemplars of doing things the right way. For that, every UM from Guilliman on down to Calgar should be commended.

On the other hand...I'd rather play a DIY chapter that I can switch back and forth between BA and UM or Crimson Fists, so the fact that I have a bunch of otherwise sweet metal figures sitting around with great big omegas on their shoulders is just a bit of a bummer.

Oh yay, it's time for this thread again. Has it really been a week already?

Anyway, Ultramarines are generally disliked because they are the vanilla space marine chapter, because they are mary sue goody-two-shoes, because their primarch is a pompous douchebag, and because Matt Ward was probably autoerotically asphyxiating himself while writing their fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Howard A Treesong wrote:I don't really like this thing about equating being "gay" with something negative, it really grates and is something I notice is mostly used by the younger generations. So my first reaction would be to point out that isn't appropriate regardless of the point being made. Frankly it makes me disinclined to listen to anything they say until they start speaking properly.

Meh, "gay" has changed meaning before, and it's somewhat in the process of changing again.

If people hate ultras due to over exposure then why aren't Cadians, Biel tan Eldar, T'au sept or any of the other studio armies hated? is there something unique to ultras that earns them this hate?

EmilCrane wrote:If people hate ultras due to over exposure then why aren't Cadians, Biel tan Eldar, T'au sept or any of the other studio armies hated? is there something unique to ultras that earns them this hate?

The fact that they're everywhere all the time? Sure, Cadians, and T'au are relatively overexposed, but not anywhere close to the extent of the Ultramarines. And the Cadians and the T'au sept don't go around calling themselves the best of the best just because they wrote a book...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:If people hate ultras due to over exposure then why aren't Cadians, Biel tan Eldar, T'au sept or any of the other studio armies hated? is there something unique to ultras that earns them this hate?

The fact that they're everywhere all the time? Sure, Cadians, and T'au are relatively overexposed, but not anywhere close to the extent of the Ultramarines. And the Cadians and the T'au sept don't go around calling themselves the best of the best just because they wrote a book...

Cadians do get over hyped a bit in the guard book though. Most of the SCs are Cadian as well. I think its a bit unfair to hate the ultras purely through overexposure. You need to get to know them and then learn to truly hate them because of who they are and what they're like, not just because they're everywhere.

EmilCrane wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:If people hate ultras due to over exposure then why aren't Cadians, Biel tan Eldar, T'au sept or any of the other studio armies hated? is there something unique to ultras that earns them this hate?

The fact that they're everywhere all the time? Sure, Cadians, and T'au are relatively overexposed, but not anywhere close to the extent of the Ultramarines. And the Cadians and the T'au sept don't go around calling themselves the best of the best just because they wrote a book...

Cadians do get over hyped a bit in the guard book though. Most of the SCs are Cadian as well. I think its a bit unfair to hate the ultras purely through overexposure. You need to get to know them and then learn to truly hate them because of who they are and what they're like, not just because they're everywhere.

Oh, I don't hate them because of overexposure, but I'm sure there's many out there who do. I almost laugh at them and their "everyone wants to be Ultra!" thing, and I'm sure that my Black Templars would laugh with me if they weren't made of plastic. I DO dislike the Ultras because they talk a lot about how to make war, but when gak hits the fan, they're conveniently in the other side of the galaxy. The only exception being Hive Fleet Behemoth, which wasn't defeated by the Ultramarines, but by the Dominus Astra.

Tazz Azrael wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Just because they're an unrepresented minority that doesn't give you the right!

The only blue people ive seen are the ones that are choking, nine times outa ten they deserved it

Is that the reason that you are wearing a gas mask?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vaatbak wrote:

Tazz Azrael wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Just because they're an unrepresented minority that doesn't give you the right!

The only blue people ive seen are the ones that are choking, nine times outa ten they deserved it

Is that the reason that you are wearing a gas mask?

(in your avatar)

I thought the other day about starting an Ultramarines army, but adding a center spike to their U to make it a trident, and calling them the Aquamarines.

they got their name from the ultramar gas stations (as well as their colour scheme's) they are everywhere, and just show how bland and boring space marines are

Personally,I think it's whole "gay" issue is silly.
I mean so what is they get new stuff and are everywhere.
It's just a bunch of kids hoping on the bandwagon of something they don't even know why.

Personally just to rub it in paint them green,say it's actually Calgars long lost,similairly armed and skilled twin brother Balgar,and see what they say.

Ok yes,I'm Chaos and I do look at the lastest SM codex and sigh at them gaining lots of cool stuff,while we lost half a codex in the last edition.Sometimes crying saying "Why can't Chaos have the thunderfire cannon,the Iron Warriors used that sort of thing first".

Lucky Loyalists.
Lol

They are REALLY overexposed. When you first start, the Ultramarines are the side that the book intro book really pushes (if you start with AoBR). Most of the displays I've seen of Space Marines are Ultramarines. They are like the flagship army that gets all the attention from Grandpa GW, so all the other grandchildren are resentful. In the fluff, they are the do-no-wrongs of saintly blueness who are super awesome at everything. Oh, their primarch wrote that freakin' book that everyone has to listen to just because he's Rowboat Girlyman. That's why so many people hate the Ultramarines. That being said, if that's what you want to paint, go for it!

Ultramarines are fun to paint, and a fully painted UM force on the tabletop can look damn good. (but so can anything else)

I LIKE Ultramarines. I liked em back in the day when Rogue Trader was out and I thought that the Crimson Fists were a founding chapter (they're on the freakin cover!). I like how they stood toe to toe with (at the time) was the biggest and newest threat to the IoM (the Tyranids). I like how they were almost wiped out, but came back better then ever. They don't have special doodad's and doo-hickeys, they are the all around goodguys. Like it was said earlier, jack of all trades, master of none. They don't need no bell and whistle troops.

I liked em back when 40k was using those crazy stat lines and not having a beaky marine was seen as weird. When the plastics were a cream colored and not this grey color.

And if you STILL think they are gay and suck.....

All of my problems with the Ultramarines stem from the fluff. First, you have Roboute. He is the ultimate meh Primarch. He is all about moderation and neutrality. He has no significant weaknesses, and has all traits in moderation. This leads into my second point as the one trait he should have in spades, he lacks - loyalty. When the HH breaks out, his marines, the "best" of them all, and also the most numerous, are surprise attacked by a portion - a portion - of the Word Bearers. Somehow, him turning the tables on a smaller force led by basically the worst fighter amongst the Primarchs is touted as some sort of miracle. When the dust settles and his father is interred on the Golden Throne, good old Roboute wastes no time in declaring that his ideas on how the Space Marines do things are the right and only way, despite the fact that the Emperor established the Legions and not pansy little chapters. He is willing to start a civil war against his remaining brothers unless they do what he says, averted only by Dorn being the bigger man. Then this vaunted tactical genius proceeded to get his proverbial ass kicked by the Alpha Legion, even after their primarch was supposedly killed. And let's not forget who woke the damn Nightbringer.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that the Ultras just lost their 1st company to Behemoth? That hardly compares to the Blood Angels getting wiped down to 50 marines left in their entire Chapter assaulting a Space Hulk full of Stealers and still comping back.

If the Ultras want to avoid a repeat they should go learn some strategy from the Tau. Due to Puretide's teachings Shadowsun was able to command a Tau fleet and destroy a Nid splinter fleet without losing a single ship. And the Tau have the arguable worst navy in the universe. Problem Astartes?

Also the sheer stupidity of following the Codex to the letter is astounding. How many times have the Iron Warriors exploited this knowing the precise timings behind certain maneuvers. Emperor help them if the Nids ever bring back the Zoats who could read the thing and distribute it across the hive mind. Lucky they have the GW character shield.

Atma01 wrote:If the Ultras want to avoid a repeat they should go learn some strategy from the Tau. Due to Puretide's teachings Shadowsun was able to command a Tau fleet and destroy a Nid splinter fleet without losing a single ship. And the Tau have the arguable worst navy in the universe. Problem Astartes?

There's your problem. Oh, and the Imperium was still new to fighting the 'nids.

LoL 4 pages of just about the same opinions being reposted by different people.

The only enlightening aspect of reading this whole thread was the link to the old WD article. now THAT was good reading!
lol
"gene-sperm"
lol