Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Scrabb wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Just a few points.

Scrabb wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:- Ate an Eldar Craftworld

Impressive. A triumph of the Hive Mind interfering with the Farseers no doubt.

No, just one specialized bioform. One Tyranid killed a whole Craftworld. Which the Tyranids now have in their genetic vaults.

I thought eldar fluff had farseers steering their craftworld free of threats. Still, a space marine blowing up a traitor battleship would be a triumph of the imperium. When Shadowsun defeated a tyranid splinter fleet without losing a ship it was a triumph for the Tau Empire.

Not only did the Doom of Malan'tai basically kill the Craftworld single handed, it did it free of synapse control and destroyed all of the Eldar souls on the infinity circuit and in soul stones. That thing is nasty.

Scrabb wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Scrabb wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:- Put Iyanden on the brink of extinction

They are good at sneaking up on those eldar.

You say that like sneaking up on the most advanced psychic race, technologically and psychically, is easy.

It's a big deal, but again, they lost. It also could have been a subset point with the other destroyed craftworld.

Depends on if you consider that Iyanden won. I wouldn't call losing 80% of the living members of an entire craftworld, plus the soulstones of most of the killed inhabitants, 'winning'. I'd say they both lost that war.

Scrabb wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Scrabb wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:- Its most recent hive fleet has thus-far proved unstoppable

Correction. Leviathan has been bogged down by an ork rich system. It is too close to call right now.

One tendril of Leviathan has been bogged down in the Octarius system. Congratulations Kryptmann, you diverted about 10% of a hive fleet and bogged it down. There's only the rest of the swarm eating everything unhindered.

I was under the impression that the entirety of the second half of Leviathan was engaged.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hive_Fleet_Leviathan

Even if I'm wrong this proves there are powerful people in the imperium capable of altering tyranid fleet approach patterns.

They never specified how mich of Leviathan was diverted. However, if you look at the map of Leviathans activities in the Tyranid codex, one small tendril hit Octarius. Leviathan is doing far more damage to the Imperium than it is given credit for - it's already destroyed at least 2 Space Marine chapters and annihilated Gryphonne IV, a major Forgeworld. Not to mention they ate the Squats

Kryptmann had a minor success, and his methods hardly justified the small amount of the hive fleet he diverted.

Well in the end the universe will be going to nids or crons (sounds like really bad gangs).

-Loki- wrote:Not only did the Doom of Malan'tai basically kill the Craftworld single handed, it did it free of synapse control and destroyed all of the Eldar souls on the infinity circuit and in soul stones. That thing is nasty.

So it found the craftworld? Or did the hive mind find it and then activate their new weapon? Yes, it is very nasty.

-Loki- wrote:Depends on if you consider that Iyanden won. I wouldn't call losing 80% of the living members of an entire craftworld, plus the soulstones of most of the killed inhabitants, 'winning'. I'd say they both lost that war.

I never said the eldar won. But losing a hive fleet is definitely a loss for the tyranids.

Scrabb wrote:
Even if I'm wrong this proves there are powerful people in the imperium capable of altering tyranid fleet approach patterns.

-Loki- wrote:They never specified how mich of Leviathan was diverted. However, if you look at the map of Leviathans activities in the Tyranid codex, one small tendril hit Octarius. Leviathan is doing far more damage to the Imperium than it is given credit for - it's already destroyed at least 2 Space Marine chapters and annihilated Gryphonne IV, a major Forgeworld. Not to mention they ate the Squats

Kryptmann had a minor success, and his methods hardly justified the small amount of the hive fleet he diverted.

The Squats..

Well there you go. I guess Leviathan hasn't been stopped yet.

I'd like to add that I agree the tyranids are preparing for a massive offensive. I actually believe that when it comes it will be the number one actual threat to the imperium it has ever faced. Larger even than the horus rebellion and the trepidations of chaos. They will definitely cause the collapse of the imperium, but it will be the aftershock of attacks from other powers because the imperium, and terra, have been so devastated by the tyranid attack.

What is really hurting the IoM is the near complete unwillingness to take the threat seriously whether it is Chaos, nids, orks and etc. and not going into total war mode. Even if the IoM militarize 1 to 10% of total population that would be enough to stymied the nids a put.

Rubberanvil wrote:What is really hurting the IoM is the near complete unwillingness to take the threat seriously whether it is Chaos, nids, orks and etc. and not going into total war mode. Even if the IoM militarize 1 to 10% of total population that would be enough to stymied the nids a put.

I second that.

The high lords of terra are either lazy, or a bunch of cowards. Probably both.

Laodamia wrote:

Rubberanvil wrote:What is really hurting the IoM is the near complete unwillingness to take the threat seriously whether it is Chaos, nids, orks and etc. and not going into total war mode. Even if the IoM militarize 1 to 10% of total population that would be enough to stymied the nids a put.

I second that.

The high lords of terra are either lazy, or a bunch of cowards. Probably both.

Thirded, but with the inclusion of their stubbornness against technology.

Leviathan is hardly bogged down it's done some major damage.

1. They Destroyed Posul Chapter Planet of the Mortificators.

2. They Destroyed Talon Chapter Planet of the Storm Falcons

3. They Destoyed Endragiga one of the Regions Major Shipyards

4. They Destroyed Forgefane, Fortress world to the Iron warriors.

5. They Destroyed the Ultima Fleet

6. They Destroyed Gryphonne IV dispite it being defended by the Adaptus Mechanicus's Skitarii and some Titan Legions.

In addtion they destoryed at least 24 additional worlds

Right now they have tendrals engaged by the Orks at Telsa Prime and at Orktarius. Orks seem to be tough for Nids to deal with.

A fleet made up from Ships from 15 Space Marine Chapters are fighting various tendrils, so far they have always had to fall back.

And now one tendril is pointing towards Terra

At the same time Hive fleet Jormungandr woke up in the same area and destoyed Obliterax.

Hive fleet Medusa showed up close by at Shadrac a world defended by Space Wolves and the Imperial Guard, they eventually have to flee.

And finally Hive Fleet Moloch showed up after absorbing its way through the Ghoul stars and wiped out the Tarellians.

So approching Segmentum Solar from several directions are 4 Hive Fleets.

This was all done in less than 2 years

All things considered they're not doing too badly are they?

Leviathan is definitely quite a challenge for everyone that encounters it.

The thing is, that we really don't know their true agenda. From what i've learned, the 'nidz keeps pushing the limits, testing their foe/prey.
- The case might be, that the larger battles, that took it's toll on the 'nidz just might've been one big scheme to better adapt their real sizes to whatever they face.

There's also quite alot of cases, where the 'nidz have simply been blown out of the sky, with nothing more than a few pods making it. Let alone, these surviving pods have spelled doom for the inhabitants.

- There's also been cases, where Tyranids have survived total destruction of a planet (Inquisitor Kryptman's exterminatus). In these cases, the threat was dealt with. But my speculations is, that some organisms might've survived, as a part of a greater scheme to have Tyranid organisms spead across the galaxy, to appear whenever the Hive Mind sees fit.

EDIT: double-posted same mess.

Billinator wrote:The thing is, that we really don't know their true agenda. From what i've learned, the 'nidz keeps pushing the limits, testing their foe/prey.
- The case might be, that the larger battles, that took it's toll on the 'nidz just might've been one big scheme to better adapt their real sizes to whatever they face.

There's also quite alot of cases, where the 'nidz have simply been blown out of the sky, with nothing more than a few pods making it. Let alone, these surviving pods have spelled doom for the inhabitants.

- There's also been cases, where Tyranids have survived total destruction of a planet (Inquisitor Kryptman's exterminatus). In these cases, the threat was dealt with. But my speculations is, that some organisms might've survived, as a part of a greater scheme to have Tyranid organisms spead across the galaxy, to appear whenever the Hive Mind sees fit.

EDIT: double-posted same mess.

So the tyranids are trying to become more like orks?

There will not be some major threat in some 200 years or less. Blood Ravens where able to defeat them with little force. And I believe other can do it to.

Scrabb wrote:

Billinator wrote:The thing is, that we really don't know their true agenda. From what i've learned, the 'nidz keeps pushing the limits, testing their foe/prey.
- The case might be, that the larger battles, that took it's toll on the 'nidz just might've been one big scheme to better adapt their real sizes to whatever they face.

There's also quite alot of cases, where the 'nidz have simply been blown out of the sky, with nothing more than a few pods making it. Let alone, these surviving pods have spelled doom for the inhabitants.

- There's also been cases, where Tyranids have survived total destruction of a planet (Inquisitor Kryptman's exterminatus). In these cases, the threat was dealt with. But my speculations is, that some organisms might've survived, as a part of a greater scheme to have Tyranid organisms spead across the galaxy, to appear whenever the Hive Mind sees fit.

EDIT: double-posted same mess.

So the tyranids are trying to become more like orks?

If by "become more like orks", you refeer to them as consuming them and using them as biomass, then; Yes..?

One of the above mentioned scenario's, where a few spores managed to escape were against orks. IIRC, the Tyranid fleet got chased down by a major IoM, until the IoM found themselves at the border to Ork territory, and left the remainder of the 'nidz to the orks. Since then, the Fleet was blown out of the sky from a heavy ork space fleet, with only a few pods intact.
- These pods then crash landed on a nearby ork planet. Of these pods, most of them were taken care of by the planets residents, but a few managed to escape.
- From these few that managed to survive, they dug tunnels, they reproduced, from taking out small patrols, until eventually, they became too great a threat for the orks to simply ignore.
- Since then, they showed superior sense of tactics towards the orks, from being outnumbered. They'd simply use hit and run-tactics more than not, 'till they finally provoked the orks mightiest leader into a state of stubborn rage, and made the ork and his followers blindly assault the Tyranids, only to find themselves in a thick fog of toxic miasma from the Venomthropes.
- After that, the orks were scattered and divided, and unable to organize, and made easy prey for the cunning Tyranid organisms. Later, the planet was consumed, and the Tyranid rose once more.

EDIT: Turbo-Typo

Billinator wrote:
If by "become more like orks", you refeer to them as consuming them and using them as biomass, then; Yes..?

One of the above mentioned scenario's, where a few spores managed to escape were against orks. IIRC, the Tyranid fleet got chased down by a major IoM, until the IoM found themselves at the border to Ork territory, and left the remainder of the 'nidz to the orks. Since then, the Fleet was blown out of the sky from a heavy ork space fleet, with only a few pods intact.
- These pods then crash landed on a nearby ork planet. Of these pods, most of them were taken care of by the planets residents, but a few managed to escape.
- From these few that managed to survive, they dug tunnels, they reproduced, from taking out small patrols, until eventually, they became too great a threat for the orks to simply ignore.
- Since then, they showed superior sense of tactics towards the orks, from being outnumbered. They'd simply use hit and run-tactics more than not, 'till they finally provoked the orks mightiest leader into a state of stubborn rage, and made the ork and his followers blindly assault the Tyranids, only to find themselves in a thick fog of toxic miasma from the Venomthropes.
- After that, the orks were scattered and divided, and unable to organize, and made easy prey for the cunning Tyranid organisms. Later, the planet was consumed, and the Tyranid rose once more.

EDIT: Turbo-Typo

Just a little tongue in cheek about the similarities between orks and tyranids in the toughness of exterminating.

Yup, there are instances of nids taking out ork worlds. There is still powerful ork resistance though.

@Scrabb
The ork and 'nidz has some similarities, yes. Just like any other army and orks has it. Orks and 'nidz may share a couple more, but i'm not really sure i'd claim that the 'nidz are trying to become more like the orks. They're most likely bound to become more like them, when they consume them.

- And yes, there are many powerful ork resistances, that's very true. My example was simply to indicate, that nothing more than a few pods can mean the undoing of a whole ork planet. The ork is just too unorganized, when they don't have a big-husked ork to lead them... And if you read the Tyranid codex, you'll learn that the Tyranids have shown excessive cunning and sly tactical capabilities.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Laodamia wrote:

Rubberanvil wrote:What is really hurting the IoM is the near complete unwillingness to take the threat seriously whether it is Chaos, nids, orks and etc. and not going into total war mode. Even if the IoM militarize 1 to 10% of total population that would be enough to stymied the nids a put.

I second that.

The high lords of terra are either lazy, or a bunch of cowards. Probably both.

Thirded, but with the inclusion of their stubbornness against technology.

Well, if you want to get into that, the Tyranid codex does mention the IoM needing to conscript every single person to effectively combat the Tyranids if they do in fact keep coming.

That's a quote from Kryptman, who for all intents and purposes seems to be completely insane, and unaware of how much of the population is actually in the Guard. At first, he says they'd have to increase the size by 500% (or to 500%, I'm not sure which; the difference being the first leaves it at 6 times the current, the other at 5 times), but then says that every man, woman, and child who can hold a lasgun would have to be drafted. That implies that about ten percent (somewhere in the range of 8-16%, depending on the percentage of able bodies in the Imperium) of the population is in the Guard. Except, where we have hard figures, it seems far more likely well under one percent is in the Guard. Tanith was tithed for three regiments of two thousand each, or six thousand in all. Assuming it's roughly the size of the Earth, even if there was only one person per square kilometer, that would only be .001% of the population. Hive worlds provide more regiments, but they also have populations in the tens of billions to the tens of trillions. Terra, which we are led to believe has tens of trillions of residents, ostensibly has only a few million bodies in its own legions.

If the Imperium drafted even one percent of its population for the sole purpose of fighting the tyranids, they would outnumber the "numberless" swarms, assuming they could arm them.

There's also the possibility that he's exaggerating to try to convince the command to increase it by maybe even double it's current size, knowing that they're not going to go nearly as far as he says is necessary. "If you want a hundred, ask for a thousand" and whatnot.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:That's a quote from Kryptman, who for all intents and purposes seems to be completely insane, and unaware of how much of the population is actually in the Guard. At first, he says they'd have to increase the size by 500% (or to 500%, I'm not sure which; the difference being the first leaves it at 6 times the current, the other at 5 times), but then says that every man, woman, and child who can hold a lasgun would have to be drafted. That implies that about ten percent (somewhere in the range of 8-16%, depending on the percentage of able bodies in the Imperium) of the population is in the Guard. Except, where we have hard figures, it seems far more likely well under one percent is in the Guard. Tanith was tithed for three regiments of two thousand each, or six thousand in all. Assuming it's roughly the size of the Earth, even if there was only one person per square kilometer, that would only be .001% of the population. Hive worlds provide more regiments, but they also have populations in the tens of billions to the tens of trillions. Terra, which we are led to believe has tens of trillions of residents, ostensibly has only a few million bodies in its own legions.

Hence the failure of IoM's director(s) of human resources to make effective use of it's most abundant resource. I'm not just speaking of only the nids threat but also every other threat to IoM, it be orks, chaos, (dark) elder, and etc. where in the codexes(sp?) only thousands to millions of IoM IG, PDF, and civilians are fighting and dying against the xeno scrounge on hive worlds.

If the Imperium drafted even one percent of its population for the sole purpose of fighting the tyranids, they would outnumber the "numberless" swarms, assuming they could arm them.

The Imperium as is, should have the capability to arm one percent of the population though a large minority of them probably wouldn't have the most up to date weapons.

I was told by GW staff that the hive mind was a rouge Catan that wanted an army of flesh rather than metal because it was more adaptable. So the desiver tricked him by giving him an army of super evolutionary creatures he couldn't keep pace with but needed him to survive.

I have never heard that one before

haloreach4ever wrote:I was told by GW staff that the hive mind was a rouge Catan that wanted an army of flesh rather than metal because it was more adaptable. So the desiver tricked him by giving him an army of super evolutionary creatures he couldn't keep pace with but needed him to survive.

You realize redshirts know less than people who trawl forums all day, right? A manager told me about a month before the release of the Stompa kit that they would never make a model like that because it's too complex, so if I wanted one, I'd have to scratch build one.

The creators of any gae will always throw tidbits of info out to stir up the crowd and keep you wondering. Im sure other GW staff have said things that will completely contradict that

I was told by GW staff that squats were going to be released on christmas. Not really, but 90% of GW staff information contradicts itself or is speculation.

Oh ok then...

Not that you're necessarily wrong or it's not a fun idea, but it's generally a good idea to take GW staff information with a grain of salt.

Scrabb wrote:Not that you're necessarily wrong or it's not a fun idea, but it's generally a good idea to take GW staff information with a grain of salt.

I'm thinkin this is a good pinch of salt to take with what GW says

I think that the tyrnids have encounterd many other galixys. But that ours is the best defended, due to the sheer size of the imperium of man. And the only reason that the imperium of man has a chanse is because it has a god divoted to its protection (DAUSE IMPERETOR!!!).





Sorry for spelling arrors.

Armadeus wrote:I think that the tyrnids have encounterd many other galixys. But that ours is the best defended, due to the sheer size of the imperium of man. And the only reason that the imperium of man has a chanse is because it has a god divoted to its protection (DAUSE IMPERETOR!!!).





Sorry for spelling arrors.

Seconded

Kryptmann said that the IoM needs to increase recruitment by 500% thereby inducting every man, woman, and child into the Guard...except an increase of 500% simply means that instead of taking the top 10% of the PDF, the guard would take 50%...and again writers have no sense of scale <_<

Load suicide strike cruisers with the life eater virus.

Launch waves of different strains at the Nids when they attack.

No need to recruit, everyone can still farm and make babies.

Retribution wrote:Kryptmann said that the IoM needs to increase recruitment by 500% thereby inducting every man, woman, and child into the Guard...except an increase of 500% simply means that instead of taking the top 10% of the PDF, the guard would take 50%...and again writers have no sense of scale <_<

Kryptman is either insane (likely, given his general behavior) or exaggerating for effect (ask for ten when you want one, and all). Looking at the only numbers we ever see, well under 1% of the population is in the Guard. Even if it were increased by 500% (which is vague in and of itself, is it saying that it should be multiplied by five, or that five times the current number should be added onto it?), it would still fall well short of 1%. From the Guard codex, we're told that Armageddon, a war-torn world in the middle of a conflict-ridden area, is generally tithed for one hundred million recruits, out of its population of hundreds of billions (so, less than .1% of its population, for a world with an extremely high tithe rate). From Gaunt's Ghosts, we have Tanith, a low density world we can probably assume has several billion inhabitants, being tithed for 6000 troops. Honestly, even the Guard codex's "10% of the PDF per year" seems absurdly high compared to the hard numbers we see, unless planets keep extremely small PDF's as a matter of policy.