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haizelhoff wrote:The problem with going purely with a list like mercer's is that it lacks suppression fire. S6 multilasers are ok, but still leave you lacking. This might not be a problem, but I think the reason we don't see lists like mercer's in tournaments is that people opt to take suppression fire, like in the form of hydras or heavy weapon teams.

Suppression fire? I don't really see what you mean...mech IG outshoots everybody else in a straight up slugfest, has the mobility to make assaults tricky, and has enough firepower spread across a large enough parking lot that you can totally paste most armies as they traverse the table.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
... and has enough firepower spread across a large enough parking lot that you can totally paste most armies as they traverse the table....

That is what I mean. Firepower is not spread across the army, it is in 6 av12 vehicles. With suppression fire you can suppress enemy tanks and you don't have to destroy every enemy tank on t1. Mercer's list has long ranged firepower in the form of 3x vendettas and 3x manticores. It WILL destroy targets, but IMO it would require supression fire to minimize shots coming back at you. 6 av12 targets isn't that hard to drop, and after that you just have a rhino rush that can't handle CC. Some sort of medium strength cheap firepower would be in order imo. The list could work without supression fire, but I just stated why I believe we don't see lists like that in tournaments.

I have to admit, I am having trouble articulating my thoughts .

The reason is because at tournmaents bad players take what they like, and suck with it, good players take what they like and win with it. That style of IG is rather boring for both the opponent and the player, therefore most people don't like it. People take what is effective, and tweak it to be more fun, more optional, or more to play to their playstyle.

Mech IG is common, usually not so bland though. It often features thing like hydras and PBS's for diversity, along with things like inuistitors and suicide squads, or even al raheim for out flanking goodness, or stracken. It's less boring with more options tactically, and therefore more fun to play.

I'm not doubting the effectiveness of mercer's list, just answering the question of why we don't see it more.

Shep used to run almost a mirror of that list of Mercer's. Till it ran into my Wolves

And Yermom's first paragraph is gold

haizelhoff wrote:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:
... and has enough firepower spread across a large enough parking lot that you can totally paste most armies as they traverse the table....

That is what I mean. Firepower is not spread across the army, it is in 6 av12 vehicles. With suppression fire you can suppress enemy tanks and you don't have to destroy every enemy tank on t1. Mercer's list has long ranged firepower in the form of 3x vendettas and 3x manticores. It WILL destroy targets, but IMO it would require supression fire to minimize shots coming back at you. 6 av12 targets isn't that hard to drop, and after that you just have a rhino rush that can't handle CC. Some sort of medium strength cheap firepower would be in order imo. The list could work without supression fire, but I just stated why I believe we don't see lists like that in tournaments.

I have to admit, I am having trouble articulating my thoughts .

Haha point taken. The thing is, the whupass really comes in two waves in that list. You've got long range brutality from the Vendettas and Manticores (backed up by 6 Multilasers), and close range brutality in the form of a buttload of plasma guns, meltaguns, and heavy flamers. Even if it only gets two turns to pwn you, the pwnage it delivers is brutal.

What the list would do is move all tanks forward and pop smoke while the Vendettas and Manticores lay down long range fire power hopefully taking out enemy targets. Next turn the Chimeras should still be out of range of most enemy guns so could use long range plasma shots out the Chimeras, if you want/need to get close to the Chimeras rapid fire plasma and melta is there ready.

The best way to defeat it would be Razor Spam or Space Wolf Long Fang spam, though I think the Wolves might struggle with S8 but depends. Pop those Vendettas the long range fire power has been taken out, then onto the Chimeras spilling the Guardsmen guts and just Manticores to deal with then.

That's what I would do anyway.

Was messing about last night and came up with this:

Bigmek with KFF

14 lootas
14 lootas
14 lootas

5 bikers with nob - PK and BP
5 bikers with nob - PK and BP
5 bikers with nob - PK and BP

18 boyz with shootas + nob - PK
18 boyz with shootas + nob - PK

Battlewagon - grabba claw, stikkbombs, deffrolla.
Battlewagon - grabba claw, stikkbombs, deffrolla.
1848 points

A potential 126 S7 shots coupled with 54 twinlinked S5 and 72 S4 all on the move (well barring the lootas).
11 KPs.
Was toying with dropping the boyz/BWs altogether, maxing the bikers completely and taking gretchin as fillers. Then adding in 2x warboss for some hitting power vs AV 13/14.
Alternatively as above but subbing in 9 KKs for anti AV13/14?

The problem with manticores is that they are shockingly innefective compared to how they look on paper. Str 10 is great and all, but when it is ordinance it is Str 5 a lot of the time vs vehicles. Against models with a high toughness, they also nearly always come with a higher save than 4+ also. If I were playing this with a mech list I would ignore the three manticores and just focus on the vendettas first, then the chimeras with meltaguns. When those are gone, the army has nothing left to dismount you and use those plasmaguns on.

Manticores are extremely effective against foot lists of guard, orks, dark eldar, etc, but not against anything mech.

Definately ignore the Manticores. That's what I usually do because the shots are only affective against vehicles when they hit, other armies it's failing armour saves. They can be annoying but the Vendettas are a more higher priority target.