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Crom wrote:Desert Eagle

Can we find a video which isn't stupid first?

Actually that video was far from stupid.

The guy loaded 2 standard rounds and then 2 subsonic rounds.

The difference is very noticeable.

But yeah. The "suppressors" on most GW models--aren't. The only models with suppressed guns have been the Vindicare and Sergeant Naaman.

Crom wrote:here goes super sonic ammo versus sub sonic ammo out of a Desert Eagle .50 A&E





See the difference?

That's a big can. Having a caliber that big supressed is a little ridiculous. The length alone makes it untenable, especially in CQB.

Lol, I knew an Israeli soldier who used a .50 DE... he broke his wrist. Seeing that video makes me chuckle. Then again, I used the 'Carpal Tunnel Typewriter' the G18c...

Concerning the "crack of superheated air" resulting from firing a laser weapon...could someone actually cite a source for this?

Thunder in a thunderstorm comes from superheated air expanding due to lightning, but I've yet to find solid evidence that lasers produce a similiar effect and corresponding sound.

Kanluwen wrote:Actually that video was far from stupid.

It involved the Desert Eagle.

Therefor it is.

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Actually that video was far from stupid.

It involved the Desert Eagle.

Therefor it is.

Therefore* it is.

As for the Desert Eagle:
while it's far from practical, it's also far less stupid than things like the "Cornershot" system.

Witzkatz wrote:Concerning the "crack of superheated air" resulting from firing a laser weapon...could someone actually cite a source for this?

Thunder in a thunderstorm comes from superheated air expanding due to lightning, but I've yet to find solid evidence that lasers produce a similiar effect and corresponding sound.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon

This may give you some insight, though it can't answer your question completely as it doesn't postulate on the types of laser weapon that is present in 40k. I learned quite a bit as I read it.

The way I interpret it, the laser creates an explosion at the end of the beam as it hits the target. 1 megajoule beam at a certain range has the equivalent energy of 200 grams of TNT and the corresponding effect (Sound, explosion and damage) Though, if I read the article correctly, there is a certain plasma effect with concentrated beams and this would have an effect much like lightning... at least in an atmosphere. Simple lasers make no sound at all accept for the mechanical noise associated with parts.

Thanks for the link, Uhlan. This "Blooming" effect that is mentioned on the page seems particularly interesting, since it seems to indicate the possibilty of very-high-energy laser beams being actually visible like in movies, if I understand the concept correct. The electrolaser idea is also very interesting, though not really on topic, I fear...

Witzkatz wrote:Thanks for the link, Uhlan. This "Blooming" effect that is mentioned on the page seems particularly interesting, since it seems to indicate the possibilty of very-high-energy laser beams being actually visible like in movies, if I understand the concept correct. The electrolaser idea is also very interesting, though not really on topic, I fear...

Ha, yeah, I found that interesting as well. I can't tell you how many times while trying to show individuals how to use a laser range finder or designator only to have them ask me where the beam was.

Witzkatz wrote:Concerning the "crack of superheated air" resulting from firing a laser weapon...could someone actually cite a source for this?

As my post with the Lasweapon fluff says: 3rd ed BRB.

Uhlan wrote:
Ha, yeah, I found that interesting as well. I can't tell you how many times while trying to show individuals how to use a laser range finder or designator only to have them ask me where the beam was.

Tell me about it. Would you, by chance, know details about this blooming effect and when it occurs? I held a presentation about the LaWS prototypes being tested for anti-air defense during a Laser Applications lecture just a few weeks ago. That thing has quite some firepower, but even in humid-air naval conditions, the high-powered beam wasn't visible to the naked eye in all the footage I've seen. I'm curious if this blooming effect might make a laser beam visible depending on certain configurations or situations.

Platuan4th wrote:
As my post with the Lasweapon fluff says: 3rd ed BRB.

Thanks for the in-fluff source. Since this discussions is halfway into "our" science thanks to the general discussion about silencers and suppressors, I was hoping for a real-world source for such effects of lasers, whatever their type might be.

I only used the DE as an example assuming that in the 41st millennium they use larger caliber bullets, and ammo that goes way beyond super sonic speeds. Trying to suppress any high velocity ammo would be difficult. Plus most weapons use a gas chamber system to cycle the ammo through the bolt carrier. Here is an AK assuming he is firing 7.62x39 but even at subsonic speeds it will only travel ~1,000 feet per a second.




Now, I own an AK74 and when I buy cheaper hunting ammo the gun fails to cycle every 3rd or 4th round because the load of the ammo is not always high enough to chamber the next round.

Here goes another comparison of .308 supersonic and subsonic rounds

Crom wrote:
Now, I own an AK74 and when I buy cheaper hunting ammo the gun fails to cycle every 3rd or 4th round because the load of the ammo is not always high enough to chamber the next round.

1) You hunt with an AK74? Or do you just mean you use cheaper ammo to save money?
2) A subsonic round shouldn't be a weaker charge, but a heavier bullet, so it leaves with the same energy, but moves slower.

Don't you mean AK-47?

Grey Templar wrote:Don't you mean AK-47?

Nope, he probably doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74

As for the noise of the lasgun, that's also mentioned numerous times in IG black library books such as the Cain series.

Grey Templar wrote:Lasguns create a loud crack when fired.

the beam is also visible.


this is because the lasgun doesn't actually fire a Laser.


the Lasgun uses a laser to agitate a gas in a special chamber. the gas then changes into plasma and is ejected from the barrel of the gun at hypersonic speed.


the sonic boom(or crack) is the plasma leaving the barrel really fast.

the "laser beam" is actually an after-image left by the plasma pulse.

Is that official? I like it, makes sense.

As for the OP, there are silencers in 40k though it seems that it's the marines that mostly use them.

cadbren wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Lasguns create a loud crack when fired.

the beam is also visible.


this is because the lasgun doesn't actually fire a Laser.


the Lasgun uses a laser to agitate a gas in a special chamber. the gas then changes into plasma and is ejected from the barrel of the gun at hypersonic speed.


the sonic boom(or crack) is the plasma leaving the barrel really fast.

the "laser beam" is actually an after-image left by the plasma pulse.

Is that official? I like it, makes sense.

I'm about 99% sure he's thinking of the tau pulse weapons, which as I recall are described as doing that by their codex. The other 1% would be he's just pulled it out of thin air, because laser weapons are consistently treated as lasers, not plasma guns. There's also a possibility he's thinking of Star Wars, I suppose, which has its "blasters" work something like that.

That sounds a lot like lasguns from what i remember reading...

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Crom wrote:
Now, I own an AK74 and when I buy cheaper hunting ammo the gun fails to cycle every 3rd or 4th round because the load of the ammo is not always high enough to chamber the next round.

1) You hunt with an AK74? Or do you just mean you use cheaper ammo to save money?
2) A subsonic round shouldn't be a weaker charge, but a heavier bullet, so it leaves with the same energy, but moves slower.

I don't really hunt, just shoot at paper targets for fun. Subsonic is usually a slower bullet, which means typically less load of powder in it. Since it travels at speeds below breaking the sound barrier.

Don't you mean AK-47?

Nope, AK74 is the newer version that is chambered in 5.56

In Traitor General, Gaunt's Commandos drop down onto a Chaos held world with silenced autopistols, and the loyalist insurgency wield autorifles with suppressors.

So do we want to know by

a Fluff

b Rules

c Reality

d Physics based on the idea of how fictional weapons that don't exist yet work.

Because it's all different.

ok, first thing, silencers/ supressors do not work with supersonic ammo, period. it blows out the internal baffels and not only wrecks the silencer but can be potentialy harmfull to the user.

the whole laser crack thing is definitely plausible though if you go of fluff i think you will find that any attatchments of that nature would be initial flash dampeners more than anything else. and yes whille most conceivable military grade lasers would opperate outside the visible spectrum they would refract off particles in the air (these are pressent everywhere generaly except under laboritory conditions) and produce the distinctive flash, i would also postulate that the lasgun would produce ozone (that is O3) among other nasties with every shot since it would ionise the air molecules, which would smell nasty.

the bolter problem has already been sorted in the fluff i believe with the compressed gas propelant or whatever. though i would point your attention to the AA12 combat shotgun and one of its more nasty ammo types (basicaly a bolt gun), which an be effectively silenced. oh and for those who think the 0.50 Deagle is stupid, a boltgun is 0.75 cal (sorry not being snarky, just informing), though the isea of the boltgun is kinda stoopid, just in a cool way.

Grey Templar wrote:Lasguns create a loud crack when fired.

the beam is also visible.


this is because the lasgun doesn't actually fire a Laser.


the Lasgun uses a laser to agitate a gas in a special chamber. the gas then changes into plasma and is ejected from the barrel of the gun at hypersonic speed.


the sonic boom(or crack) is the plasma leaving the barrel really fast.

the "laser beam" is actually an after-image left by the plasma pulse.

Wouldn't that be a Plasma Gun/Pistol?