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kryhavok wrote:IMO The inclusion of the word "either" is simply (albeit a poor choice of words) to let players know that it can be activated during you opponents assault phase, meaning you you're forced to receive the charge it can still be used.

This could be 100% true.

It could also be true that they meant to write it differently than the rest of the abilities that can be used once per turn because it cannot be.

/shrug

In logic and law, either denotes one, the other or both. Unless it's an either/or construction, in which case it's only one of the two.

Redemption wrote:In logic and law, either denotes one, the other or both. Unless it's an either/or construction, in which case it's only one of the two.

So given that it says to be used in either turn, that could really go either way.

My second either cannot really be read as allowing both to occur.

I don't think that GW intends players to turn to a dictionary to try to decipher a rule - save those kinds of shenanigans for Scrabble.

It's ironic that in this case, either can mean either scenario, lol.

But seriously, does anyone actually believe that a power that could wipe 10, 15, 20 or more models in one use can be used more than once per game turn by one squad? Take three or four purifier squads and you're talking about a potentially match winning ability being thrown around like there's no tomorrow.

Just because you can interpret it to mean you can use it twice per game turn, doesn't mean that it should overrule common sense.

Aye, it's because either is an auto-antonym (a word that can mean one thing or its exact opposite), like fast, buckle or weather, and should be inferred from the context of the sentence. For example, if there was a construct with a button and two lights, and you were told to push the button if either light goes on, wouldn't you push the button if both lights turned on simultanously?

I agree though, they could have used clearer wording. Per usual, a FAQ would help.

Redemption wrote:Aye, it's because either is an auto-antonym (a word that can mean one thing or its exact opposite), like fast, buckle or weather, and should be inferred from the context of the sentence.

And moot.

Redemption wrote:For example, if there was a construct with a button and two lights, and you were told to push the button if either light goes on, wouldn't you push the button if both lights turned on simultanously?

Probably, but would you push both buttons if you were told to push either button when a light turns on?

Redemption wrote:I agree though, they could have used clearer wording. Per usual, a FAQ would help.

Kryhavok:
Thanks for the clarification.

kirsanth wrote:

Redemption wrote:For example, if there was a construct with a button and two lights, and you were told to push the button if either light goes on, wouldn't you push the button if both lights turned on simultanously?

Probably, but would you push both buttons if you were told to push either button when a light turns on?

Well, no, but that's because it's a different context (and I'm too lazy to push both). But let's turn your example around, if your test subject did press both buttons, was he technically wrong to push both?

Let's try common sense. Let's say, hypothetically, it could only be use in either your player turn, or the other player's turn, but only once per game turn.
Now, imagine that you got the first turn, and you assault someone at the start of game turn 2. You can now cast Cleansing Flame, but you wouldn't be able to cast it again immediately the next assault phase, as it's still the same game turn.
Now, imagine that you went second instead, and you assault someone at the end of game turn 2. You can now cast Cleansing Flame, and you can cast it again immediately the next assault, as that would be the start of game turn 3.

So suddenly you can cast it twice in a row, thus potentionally making it more powerful, just because you started the assault at the end of a game turn? I know it's not always a good idea to try to apply common sense to WH40k rules, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Redemption wrote:So suddenly you can cast it twice in a row, thus potentionally making it more powerful, just because you started the assault at the end of a game turn? I know it's not always a good idea to try to apply common sense to WH40k rules, but that doesn't make sense to me.

You mean something like when they wrote this:

Q. How do Njal Stormcallerʼs Driving Gale and Living
Hurricane effects work if the Space Wolves player is the
player going second? (p53)

A. These two abilities have no real effect in games where
the Space Wolves player is going second – the tempest is
yet to rage.

Editing to add:
The idea that something works differently depending on the turn it is used is not so strange; that was the point of that SW reference.

Heh, as I said, trying to apply common sense to 40k rules can be a bad idea. Lord of Tempests is just a poorly written rule though I guess.

Still, I stand by my point, but yeah, FAQ please.

nosferatu1001 wrote:ZXwarrior - quit overreacting. GK are FAR from overpowered.

Oaka - it's been stated by peopel who have seen the codex exactly how it works, however as you dont seem to believe them the wording is:

"This power can be used during the Assault phase in either players turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of a 4+"

There is absolutely nothing in there that restricts it to one turn. nothing.

blows have been struck during the first turn of combat... if combat continues to another turn, blows have already been struck, therefore, the use it "before any blows have been struck" test fails and it can't be used in subsequent turns of combat.

jeremesh wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:ZXwarrior - quit overreacting. GK are FAR from overpowered.

Oaka - it's been stated by peopel who have seen the codex exactly how it works, however as you dont seem to believe them the wording is:

"This power can be used during the Assault phase in either players turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of a 4+"

There is absolutely nothing in there that restricts it to one turn. nothing.

blows have been struck during the first turn of combat... if combat continues to another turn, blows have already been struck, therefore, the use it "before any blows have been struck" test fails and it can't be used in subsequent turns of combat.

Now ask yourself this, during the second assault phase have blows been struck that phase? no, alright prepare to burn

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

jeremesh wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:ZXwarrior - quit overreacting. GK are FAR from overpowered.

Oaka - it's been stated by peopel who have seen the codex exactly how it works, however as you dont seem to believe them the wording is:

"This power can be used during the Assault phase in either players turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of a 4+"

There is absolutely nothing in there that restricts it to one turn. nothing.

blows have been struck during the first turn of combat... if combat continues to another turn, blows have already been struck, therefore, the use it "before any blows have been struck" test fails and it can't be used in subsequent turns of combat.

Now ask yourself this, during the second assault phase have blows been struck that phase? no, alright prepare to burn

It doesnt say before any blows have been struck "that phase"

used during the assault phase in either players turn, it doesnt say the first assault either ...

jeremesh wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

jeremesh wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:ZXwarrior - quit overreacting. GK are FAR from overpowered.

Oaka - it's been stated by peopel who have seen the codex exactly how it works, however as you dont seem to believe them the wording is:

"This power can be used during the Assault phase in either players turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of a 4+"

There is absolutely nothing in there that restricts it to one turn. nothing.

blows have been struck during the first turn of combat... if combat continues to another turn, blows have already been struck, therefore, the use it "before any blows have been struck" test fails and it can't be used in subsequent turns of combat.

Now ask yourself this, during the second assault phase have blows been struck that phase? no, alright prepare to burn

It doesnt say before any blows have been struck "that phase"

By your logic you can't ever use cleansing flame after one CC attack has been carried out by any unit during that game...

EDIT: Oh, also: ARISE, YE THREAD OF YORE! MAY YOUR BROKEN HUSK HAUNT THESE DECRIPIT HALLS! (Don't necro!)

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:used during the assault phase in either players turn, it doesnt say the first assault either ...

Have any assault moves been made in the subsequent combat turn?

Guess that depends if you had to move or not. It doesnt specify you have to move. Just that it's done after

Claiming Cleansing Flame doesnt work in either players assault phase based upon the view that its would then be too powerful is an invalid argument in the face of what is actually written .

jeremesh wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

jeremesh wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:ZXwarrior - quit overreacting. GK are FAR from overpowered.

Oaka - it's been stated by peopel who have seen the codex exactly how it works, however as you dont seem to believe them the wording is:

"This power can be used during the Assault phase in either players turn, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows have been struck. If the psychic test is passed, all enemy models that are part of the same assault suffer one wound on a roll of a 4+"

There is absolutely nothing in there that restricts it to one turn. nothing.

blows have been struck during the first turn of combat... if combat continues to another turn, blows have already been struck, therefore, the use it "before any blows have been struck" test fails and it can't be used in subsequent turns of combat.

Now ask yourself this, during the second assault phase have blows been struck that phase? no, alright prepare to burn

It doesnt say before any blows have been struck "that phase"

Its a little thing called "context" - learn it, love it, use it.

(Or, in other words, that context is "either assault pahse" - not "the first assault phase you have made")

Oh, and before you argue - the line "after assault moves" is not a requirement on being able to use the power.

blows have been struck during the first turn of combat... if combat continues to another turn, blows have already been struck, therefore, the use it "before any blows have been struck" test fails and it can't be used in subsequent turns of combat.

So by this reading once assault has happened in the game then cleansing flame can't be used. Would you actually attempt this argument in game: "Granted these Purifiers haven't struck any blows, but my deffkopter assaulted and struck blows on your rhino in turn 1 so no more cleansing flame for your entire army any more..."

Regardless, can't grey knight squads only use one psychic power per game turn?

So that would limit the use of the power to either your assault or your opponents assault phase. The gamble being that your opponent might not assault you knowing that they have a massive whooping coming.

Edit: I'll bow to superior GK knowledge on this one!

I think it is per turn(meaning player turn)not game turn.

Each brotherhood of psykers may use one power per player turn, just like any other level 1 psyker.

Kijamon wrote:Regardless, can't grey knight squads only use one psychic power per game turn?

So that would limit the use of the power to either your assault or your opponents assault phase. The gamble being that your opponent might not assault you knowing that they have a massive whooping coming.

Player turn. Turn = player turn. Not onlyis it in the rulebook, they also FAQ'd it for you.