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Staff in retail stores are there to sell... end of story. The techniques of selling can be argued in a different post.

For me, GW has been hit and miss. Not only have I had the experience mentioned above with a GW staffer acting like a 6 yr old (and he was reported, and no, he is still there and hasn't changed), but also went to a different store in the same city, where I introduced a friend to the hobby for the first time.

Within 20secs of walking in, the guy behind the counter who was on the phone to an I.T helpdesk was swearing and cursing at the top of his lungs that their computer wasn't working. Dropping the 'F' bombs left, right and center and slamming the phone around after. Whether he was showing off to some guys in the store or what I'll have no idea.

Who in their right mind in sales, acts like this in front of customers??

Mate was raising his eyebrows thinking 'is this normal for the hobby?'

So I pretty much avoid the stores now unless I notice a mate in there to chat with. Everything else i review or find out online...

Having sold products online as well as face-to-face in my own business, selling is not about selling product. It's about providing the right solution to the customers needs. This post is about 'when GW doesn't do that'...

It amazes me that even when they know who their customers are, and what they generally want, they can still screw it up!

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I guess 78% of the respondents have never worked corporate retail, huh? Now, understand

And i guess you didnt read 78% of this thread either :3

Grow up and grow a pair. If they are not trying to sell, they are at the least losing their job. Not too many businesses like this one are faring right now. Some people start to get a little punchy about sales quotas, and to get into semantic arguments with people who you do not know won't make either situation better.

So what you are telling me is, you dont think there is a difference between a good salesman and a bad one? So much for your experience....
What pair are you referring to that we should be growing?

The brick-and-mortar store is a necessity in this economy. It provides local tax dollars to *your* community, therefore relieving your pressure to pay it off later. Why not invest something into your community, both the society and the gaming ones, rather than paying the bills of places you will never go?

Invest in GW... lol? Are you a GW investor? if yes, specify the type.

snowman40k wrote:Staff in retail stores are there to sell... end of story.

Having sold products online as well as face-to-face in my own business, selling is not about selling product. It's about providing the right solution to the customers needs.

Well said. When I was working with GW all of my managers (I worked at a few stores in the same cell) would emphasize that you want to match the product to the customer and not get them in to some thing unrelated to their needs. We were trained to gauge the level of a hobbyist, find what they were into/working on and see what they needed for the next step and suggest events for them to participate in. Sure we would plug WD or the next promo campaign (like fall of Medusa) but that was about it.

I cringed when I read how GW employees would say "the xyz that you have is weak try this" we would be like "oh, that's cool, where do you want to go with that?"

It's a case of "every Custodes is a hero, not a soldier". The 'closest fit' for a Custodes force would be a Draigowing force, where pretty much every individual Terminator is a hero in their own right.
That's far from "infantry heavy"--which really is counterintuitive to the whole idea of Custodes.

...you don't count terminators as "infantry" then? Because that actually sounds like a great way to represent them, and probably exactly what the OP was going for.

Sidstyler wrote:

It's a case of "every Custodes is a hero, not a soldier". The 'closest fit' for a Custodes force would be a Draigowing force, where pretty much every individual Terminator is a hero in their own right.
That's far from "infantry heavy"--which really is counterintuitive to the whole idea of Custodes.

...you don't count terminators as "infantry" then? Because that actually sounds like a great way to represent them, and probably exactly what the OP was going for.

I don't really consider Terminators/Paladins to be 'infantry' in the sense of 'general infantry' or anywhere near being something for an 'infantry heavy force', if that makes sense to you Sid.

"your opinion is different than mine , i must correct you"

the jest of the last 2 pages.

Kanluwen wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

It's a case of "every Custodes is a hero, not a soldier". The 'closest fit' for a Custodes force would be a Draigowing force, where pretty much every individual Terminator is a hero in their own right.
That's far from "infantry heavy"--which really is counterintuitive to the whole idea of Custodes.

...you don't count terminators as "infantry" then? Because that actually sounds like a great way to represent them, and probably exactly what the OP was going for.

I don't really consider Terminators/Paladins to be 'infantry' in the sense of 'general infantry' or anywhere near being something for an 'infantry heavy force', if that makes sense to you Sid.

Well I guess I can see why, but in my mind heavy infantry is still "infantry" so it's not that farfetched. I mean I didn't assume that by "infantry heavy" the guy meant on the level of the Imperial Guard, you know?

But yeah, in other words I see what you mean now and I think we're just thinking of different things. I agree with you that terminators/paladins aren't "infantry" in the traditional sense of the word, but I was thinking more along the lines of "dudes on foot" which is kinda what they are.

Also:

LunaHound wrote:What pair are you referring to that we should be growing?

Get it? She's a girl! lololol

...*cough*...sorry.

Sidstyler wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

It's a case of "every Custodes is a hero, not a soldier". The 'closest fit' for a Custodes force would be a Draigowing force, where pretty much every individual Terminator is a hero in their own right.
That's far from "infantry heavy"--which really is counterintuitive to the whole idea of Custodes.

...you don't count terminators as "infantry" then? Because that actually sounds like a great way to represent them, and probably exactly what the OP was going for.

I don't really consider Terminators/Paladins to be 'infantry' in the sense of 'general infantry' or anywhere near being something for an 'infantry heavy force', if that makes sense to you Sid.

Well I guess I can see why, but in my mind heavy infantry is still "infantry" so it's not that farfetched. I mean I didn't assume that by "infantry heavy" the guy meant on the level of the Imperial Guard, you know?

Yeah, I know--but with the Grey Knights book--anything's possible. I can't really think of any feasible way to do a 'fluffy' Custodes force that just doesn't toss the most recently introduced fluff aside. Best way would be the Draigowing with Paladins though.

For a rundown, in my mind, I tend to organize things based on how I think of them in terms of fluff:
'General Infantry'--Your Tactical Marines, your Guard platoons, your Fire Warriors, your Chaos Marines, what have you. The line infantry and the basic, run of the mill troops choice.
'Specialist Infantry'--Scouts, Guard Veterans, Tau Pathfinders, Kroot, Vanguard/Sternguard Marines, Eldar Rangers, etc.
'Heavies'--Terminators, Stormtroopers, Ogryn, Immortals, Tyranids Warriors, and Crisis Suits--anything that feasibly would be the 'anchor' of an assault operation and isn't a tank.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The brick-and-mortar store is a necessity in this economy. It provides local tax dollars to *your* community, therefore relieving your pressure to pay it off later. Why not invest something into your community, both the society and the gaming ones, rather than paying the bills of places you will never go?

Hell yeah. That local store manager is your neighbor, a fellow blue collar ball-buster like yourself. Hell, in some cases, he's even your friend.

Help a brother out. Buy local.

Cottonjaw wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The brick-and-mortar store is a necessity in this economy. It provides local tax dollars to *your* community, therefore relieving your pressure to pay it off later. Why not invest something into your community, both the society and the gaming ones, rather than paying the bills of places you will never go?

Hell yeah. That local store manager is your neighbor, a fellow blue collar ball-buster like yourself. Hell, in some cases, he's even your friend.

Help a brother out. Buy local.

Thank you! someone gets it! Investing in your local game store (or any store, for that matter) is investing in your community in multiple ways. If you are nice, they may even listen to you if you have a valid complaint. And they may help to foster a community of people for you to game with, socialize with, etc.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The brick-and-mortar store is a necessity in this economy. It provides local tax dollars to *your* community, therefore relieving your pressure to pay it off later. Why not invest something into your community, both the society and the gaming ones, rather than paying the bills of places you will never go?

Hell yeah. That local store manager is your neighbor, a fellow blue collar ball-buster like yourself. Hell, in some cases, he's even your friend.

Help a brother out. Buy local.

Thank you! someone gets it! Investing in your local game store (or any store, for that matter) is investing in your community in multiple ways. If you are nice, they may even listen to you if you have a valid complaint. And they may help to foster a community of people for you to game with, socialize with, etc.

This thread was mostly discussing staff with zero salesman sense or experience.

What are you 2 talking about to be saying we are disagreeing with you? We arnt even on the same topic.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The brick-and-mortar store is a necessity in this economy. It provides local tax dollars to *your* community, therefore relieving your pressure to pay it off later. Why not invest something into your community, both the society and the gaming ones, rather than paying the bills of places you will never go?

Hell yeah. That local store manager is your neighbor, a fellow blue collar ball-buster like yourself. Hell, in some cases, he's even your friend.

Help a brother out. Buy local.

Thank you! someone gets it! Investing in your local game store (or any store, for that matter) is investing in your community in multiple ways. If you are nice, they may even listen to you if you have a valid complaint. And they may help to foster a community of people for you to game with, socialize with, etc.

Despit what you believe, a 1-man operation like GW stores is NOT local.

Other than paying local rates for utilities, how does the wage of a single individual change your local economy?

You can buy online and play at friends place or a local club, GW stores are not a local small business that relies on your business, theya re a high-end marketing tool for growing the customer base and most do not have enough tables to support the local gaming scene, they are intro tables.

Buy local? What? How did we get to 'buy local' and helping 'brothers' out?

That's not even slightly similar to the thread's original topic.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Buy local? What? How did we get to 'buy local' and helping 'brothers' out?

That's not even slightly similar to the thread's original topic.

Sorry to derail, but your earlier derail of the thread in a earlier post to provoke another user is on topic?

Really tired of reading threads and having you spout your "opinion" over everyone that disagrees. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and so are they. Just keep it civil for feths sake...or do we have to wait for a mod to tell you to knock it off as per usual.

SpitfireArsonist wrote:Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and so are they. Just keep it civil for feths sake...or do we have to wait for a mod to tell you to knock it off as per usual.

HBMC isnt the one dismissing other's opinion, he only brought up one same issue that has happened far too many times by someone that on daily bases talks down on other's opinions constantly.
I dont have to point names , its by now a fact everyone knows. Just like they know i like to call him out for it as well.

And we shouldnt get involved into it because:

Person K have no interest in changing his condescending tones and insults.
Person H wont stop calling out K's attitude because its rude and bloody annoying. But the problem is, its not severe enough to be reported for.

So you are going to call HBMC for calling someone out? does that mean should I call you out for calling hbmc out for calling someone out?

Lets not go there, agreed?

LunaHound wrote:

SpitfireArsonist wrote:Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and so are they. Just keep it civil for feths sake...or do we have to wait for a mod to tell you to knock it off as per usual.

HBMC isnt the one dismissing other's opinion, he only brought the issue up which has happened far too many times by someone that on daily bases talks down on other's opinions constantly.
I dont have to point names , its by now a fact everyone knows. Just like they know i like to call him out for it as well.

Fair enough. I usually just ignore the more confrontational or annoying users. Just hard to enjoy certain threads when they seem to dissolve into arguments for argument's sake.

Back on topic: Overly pushy salesmen suck.

SpitfireArsonist wrote:Back on topic: Overly pushy salesmen suck.

I think its the combination of desperation mixed with lack of experience.
Sometimes it doesnt even feel like a convo anymore , almost like they are only trying to recite what they were forced to remember at the staff training.

I think thats what contribute to them always recommending the wrong thing. ( its like burnt in their memory as default product to push lol )

Sometimes it seems that they are paid on commission solely, and that their actions and attitude reflect this.

SpitfireArsonist wrote:Sometimes it seems that they are paid on commission solely, and that their actions and attitude reflect this.

I dont think its commission, they told me they have to meet a sales quota every 2 weeks, if they keep missing it, they are fired.
The one i went to , the staff changes almost every month other than their manager which i have seen around for.... 6 years

I know that they aren't paid on commission. I'm just saying that they almost only act as if they are.

Save for the bunker, I haven't seen a redshirt in a long while. One man stores are for the birds.

The last time I went into a GW store was for a tourney, and I was lucky enough to have liked the guy.

Hell, my whole GW experience with their stores has been positive, really. Met some friends there, even got free stuff besides the raffles and whatnot. It's been a while since I've been there, though, and they did change staff...

I do recall that at one point, I called up my old store when the new manager was announced, to see when IoB was released. He asked me if I wanted to buy the $75 rulebook, but I politely declined. He said that if I bought the book I'd know the rules sooner... which was kinda dumb really. But, I haven't been in the store for a while.

LunaHound wrote:

SpitfireArsonist wrote:Yes, you are entitled to your opinion and so are they. Just keep it civil for feths sake...or do we have to wait for a mod to tell you to knock it off as per usual.

HBMC isnt the one dismissing other's opinion, he only brought up one same issue that has happened far too many times by someone that on daily bases talks down on other's opinions constantly.
I dont have to point names , its by now a fact everyone knows. Just like they know i like to call him out for it as well.

And we shouldnt get involved into it because:

Person K have no interest in changing his condescending tones and insults.
Person H wont stop calling out K's attitude because its rude and bloody annoying. But the problem is, its not severe enough to be reported for.

So you are going to call HBMC for calling someone out? does that mean should I call you out for calling hbmc out for calling someone out?

Lets not go there, agreed?

You win the award for subtlety!

Seriously, if anyone else has anything NEW to add, this thread should just die an ignoble death.

Well continuing the feud wont help the thread, we can discuss it if you wish avatarform, but it would be in PM instead of this thread. I recommend you edit it and dont prolong the drama.
hmm i see , no PM. Seems like you are just hungry from the last thread .

And that's all I have to say on the matter.

I've definitely seen high staff turnover in our local GW, bar the managers. The sad part of this is that I tend to seek out the guys I know - the ones who can say "How did that last unit work out for you?" And the more I get to know someone, the more likely I am to trust their opinion.

One of the managers doesn't really like me - tried to make me replace my metal kans with plastic, which led to a fairly brief argument along the lines of:

"I don't care how nice they are. You told me these metal one were awesome a few months ago. I'm not going to spend thirty quid swapping out some perfectly good models just because you think the new ones are nicer."

So there's only one guy left I trust to sell me stuff.


In addition, and accepting that there are people here with more business acumen, I do wonder whether GW are clinging to an old way of doing things. Ten or twenty years ago, if you wanted to buy something, you were a captive audience. You had to accept the upsell as part of the shopping process. I wanted a new Hi-Fi, so I went to the shop, spoke to the bloke, worked my way through his sales pitch and made my choice. I couldn't avoid it, because there wasn't really another way of buying one. It was the same with GW products. These guys had expertise that you could use.

We don't have this situation any more. If the upsell gets too much, we can vote with our feet, canvass opinions and buy our products online.

To some extent, they are wise to this, which is why they use their stores to draw in new players and painters. They need, IMO, to be careful not to drive away old customers into the arms of their online competitors using hard upselling. (Especially as, for reasons I have never been able to fathom, GW seems to be the only company where buying direct from the factory is the most expensive way to buy.)

I think this guy sums it up well: (The site itself contains bad language, so avoid at work)

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/sell_generation

I can't really think of a 'bad' experience I've ever had a GW store some times the sales man can be a little pushy. This isn't a GW exclusive thing I've dealt with this at many places before. I have had an awkward moment once though.

It was about 2005 when I walked in to buy something for my darkelves. I've only been playing/collecting for about a month. I bought a Malikith on a dragon because I thought it would be a cool leader for my army. I admittedly didn't know much about the game at this point. As I got my white dwarf (back when they were amazing!) and Malikith on dragon and am getting it in the bag to walk out.

Red Shirt "Hey larry, I actually sold a Malikith on a dragon!!"

Larry "Wow!" looks wide eyed and surprised.

They could have waited for me to get out of the door at least... I sheepishly walk out the door wondering what in the hell I did wrong buying this that it was that big of a deal...

Ah, Dark Elves...maybe if the core models didn't look like crap I could bring myself to actually start an army. As it is I've got a few dozen models (crappily assembled that I bought on the cheap), some cold ones and a hydra and haven't done dick with them since the $80 rulebook came out and expensive, 3000 point+ armies became the standard.

LunaHound wrote:Well continuing the feud wont help the thread, we can discuss it if you wish avatarform, but it would be in PM instead of this thread. I recommend you edit it and dont prolong the drama.
hmm i see , no PM. Seems like you are just hungry from the last thread .

Im continuing the feud?

Edit your post and my post will be unnecessary.

No thanks
Take care , and good bye ( as in im going to continue painting my Tomb Kings : )

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I guess 78% of the respondents have never worked corporate retail, huh? Now, understand, I responded that way, too, but I have my reasons. When I enter a store and am approached by salespeople, I am very clear about what I am there for.

Shoulda read the thread man, theres at least 3 maybe 4 (minimum)

SoloFalcon1138 wrote: I have done their job before and know how much it sucks to waste time on someone who is not making us any money. Sounds harsh, but its a fact. When I have dealt with making money, I have more time to chat with browsers, rather than trying to sell them stuff while watching actual customers go elsewhere.

Agreed 100%

SoloFalcon1138 wrote: Quite often, if a retailer hears "I don't know" they will try and funnel the decision making process; little do people realize unless they have one particular thing picked out, the salesperson controls the conversation.

Ehh, selling anything else I would agree. But this is someones hobby, their passion, connect with them. Build a client el. Expand the community, remember their face, next time they come in, talk about THEIR army, how you could help them, because thats all your there too do, the product really does sell itself, the problem is the staff (generally speaking, as their are alot of real good people in GW)

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Grow up and grow a pair. If they are not trying to sell, they are at the least losing their job. Not too many businesses like this one are faring right now. Some people start to get a little punchy about sales quotas, and to get into semantic arguments with people who you do not know won't make either situation better.

Got a bit confused, seemed you were going the ole moral high ground route, but them plummeted into the depths of childness

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Try this on for size the next time any of the 78% go to a game store. Clearly define what you are looking for, whether it be paint, glue, battleforce, etc. If they try and off-sell you, restate your intention. If they still don't get the point, then you have yourself someone who is never gonna get it.

Yeah, you really should of read the thread, I go in too browse, if I make a purchase it would be a spur of the moment thing, and never more than 20 euro, but all they try too sell me are battleforces for armies I dont collect, Realm of something battle boards (even though I explained Im making one) They dont get the point, I want too browse, too indulge myself, but it gets ruined by regurgitated sales pitches. They dont try and connect with customers anymore, it leaves you feeling cheap and dirty

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The brick-and-mortar store is a necessity in this economy. It provides local tax dollars to *your* community, therefore relieving your pressure to pay it off later. Why not invest something into your community, both the society and the gaming ones, rather than paying the bills of places you will never go?

Not really sure what your saying here, I pay tax on everything, Its not really an incentive to go too GW, like at all.

Theirs a FLGS literally 5 min walk from GW Dublin and they let the products sell themselves, they will help if you need it, but they let people pick up what they want, without forcing a pitch on them, and they seem to be doing better business than GW


Selling stuff is difficult. More so when under pressure and with no sales training (do they have any training?). All it takes is one bad salesman and the rest will copy him. With no training what else can they do?
So either you have a GW where everyone is sound, or everyones aggressive selling/ignoring what customers are saying.