Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

10 tactical marines with melta, combi-melta, and lascannon is going to be....what, 195 points? That's 9 strikes with a psycannon, or 8 with a psycannon and psybolts. It's only 5 points shy of a second psycannon, but ah well. Assuming we've deployed just outside of 24", the grey knights are really getting the first shots. Since I don't feel like calculating the additional psycannon math with rending and all, let's assume the grey knights get the 5 point advantage [technically] and have the 9th member but no psycannons.

A lascannon has a .55 chance of killing a marine with every shot, with 2/3 a chance to hit and 5/6 to wound. So let's assume he kills someone every other round, with an eventually extra kill every once in a while.

18 S5 shots, 12 hit, 8 wound, about 3 marines die.
Lascannon kills a grey knight, 5 remaining bolters [one guy bought a meltagun, 3 just bought it]. 5 shots, 3 hit, 2 wound, maybe a grey knight fails a save.

14 shots fire back now, 9 hit, 6 wound, 2 marines die.

lascannon misses this round, marines fire back with 3 shots. 2 hit, 1 wounds, let's say he dies.

12 shots fire back, 8 hit, 5 wound, let's say only 1 dies.

lascannon kills a grey knight, 2 bolters fire back, let's go with no deaths from bolters this round.

10 shots back, 6 hit, 4 wound, another marine down, should be 2 since we threw them a bone last round.

We're down to 3 tac marines and 5 grey knights. Meanwhile, while the tactical marines stayed still, the grey knights moved towards an objective.

What about combat squads? What ABOUT combat squads? Say half split to advance forward. Now I can back out of 24" of the lascannon squad, robbing them of all bolter shots, and the 5-man squad is now moving, unable to shoot me as I back away and fire at the closer squad, decimating it in short order while only the lascannon strikes me from afar. This analysis also assumes the grey knights are not in cover, halving the effectiveness of the lascannon. The GK, however, are allowing armor saves so it doesn't matter if the marines are in cover or not.

Of course I could also deepstrike and shoot, face the retributive fire, then charge and utterly dominate. Fewer numbers matter little when 2/3 of your wounds bounce off, but each of mine is FATAL.

Now I'm one that doesn't actually think tactical marines are terrible. I love combat tactics! Unfortunately, everyone trades it in for twin-linked meltaguns or fleeting TH terminators.

Speaking of TH termies, how do they plus a librarian with null zone really take down Paladins? The paladins have a brotherhood banner and possibly counter-attack. Now assuming they don't just back away and use their stormbolters since you have no ranged weapon [pro comparison there], they COULD have as many as 5 attacks between falchions, brotherhood banner, and counterattack. They hit on 3+, wound on 3+ from hammerhand, and could be master-crafted for a re-roll to hit [and can they take digital weapons for a re-roll to wound, too?].

Facing those odds, even outnumbering them, the TH terminators are likely taking 2-3 wounds each, making it very likely for them to bite it before they strike.

They're probably your best bet, but it's hardly a sure thing.

The irony with dealing with paladins is that they are weak to pbs. Nothing like seeing super expensive grey knights run off the table or get pinned.

If playing BA's I recommend fear of the darkness.

Nothing a vindicator can't handle either.

DarthDiggler wrote:I find the henchman army interesting. It has very little defense vs. a Dreadknight/Furioso. Once in the lines nothing can stop those. I think it looks good on paper, but unless you play on the plains of Nebraska, any los blocking terrain will make half the army ineffective and allow the enemy to deliver a CC unit that will attack from tank to tank and stop everything. 1-2 pure GK squads can be targeted with shooting and eliminated so they can't counter attack. Now find a way to reliably kick the Bloodthirster (a euphism for some tough as nails CC unit) out of your lines and you might have something

Each of those henchmen squads could add 3 meltaguns, or a score of deathcult assassins for very cheap.

Dreadknights? A single GK could charge it [making it initiative 1, because it's a psyker] and then kill it by rolling a 6 and activating its force weapon. Solved!

A dreadnought could be killed by a S10 demonhammer, or psycannon fire [6 penetrates], or psyrifles [also 6 penetrates] or meltaguns in the henchmen squads.

Spellbound wrote:

Speaking of TH termies, how do they plus a librarian with null zone really take down Paladins? The paladins have a brotherhood banner and possibly counter-attack. Now assuming they don't just back away and use their stormbolters since you have no ranged weapon [pro comparison there], they COULD have as many as 5 attacks between falchions, brotherhood banner, and counterattack. They hit on 3+, wound on 3+ from hammerhand, and could be master-crafted for a re-roll to hit [and can they take digital weapons for a re-roll to wound, too?].

Facing those odds, even outnumbering them, the TH terminators are likely taking 2-3 wounds each, making it very likely for them to bite it before they strike.

They're probably your best bet, but it's hardly a sure thing.

A base paladin costs 15 points more than a TH/SS Terminator, and a 5 man squad with just a banner is 300. Falchions aren't an efficient choice, the CC 4++, I6, or Hammer are all more useful than the more expensive +1A. Paladins can't take digital weapons, and mastercrafting is not an efficient choice either.

Let's say the paladins have all those toys. 5 of them run 350 and you're pushing twice the cost of the TH/SS squad. The guy with a banner also no longer has a force weapon. Throw an equal point cost of TH/SS at them and they're throwing down with 9 assault terminators. 20 force weapon attacks, even at MC3+/3+ against 3++, isn't going to kill them.

First off who the hell deploys two squads 25" away on a bare table and says whoever wins is better? That doesn't make any sense. The lack of imagination in unit creation and conduct in relation to an overall list is the source of your anger.

I don't care how much a grey knight costs relative to a tactical marine. Look at the codex. Vanilla marines can out msu the grey knights and create a target saturation that no amount of special gear will overcome.

Do this comparison. A strike squad at 200 pts vs. two typhoons. Typhoons shoot at 48" and decimate the strikes without ever getting shot at. The vanilla marines have access to them, Grey Knights do not. It's not just typhoons, but also Attack Bikes, cheap Predators, etc.. The vanilla marines can deploy 2-3 times as many units which all can contribute to destroy a strike squad. The strikes should get more stuff to try and make them playable in the face of all those units.

Deathcult assassins? Really? 10 tactical marines sit in trees = end of the deathcult assassins.

Does anyone play with terrain anymore?

Finally you tell me that the way your uber army list of henchman defeats thngs is by rolling a 6? You need a 6 and it's just going to happen? If that's the case you don't need henchmen to create the super list you think it is, you just need to roll your magic '6' to steal the initiative each game. You advocate rolling a 6 to kill the dreadknight so you must be able to roll the 6 to steal the initiative each game.

I look forward to reading about your never ending series of tournament wins with the 6's you will roll each time you need them.

Yeah, Deathcult is a weird thing. Yes, it is killy as all hell. But they are one shot, you're almost never going to get a second go with them, as they're going to get shot up.

Considering how much ap2-1 is in a henchman list, what's stopping me from just shooting dreadknights off the table? I did that easily with my dark eldar, and henchman/razorbacks are cheaper than their dark eldar equivalents.

Spellbound wrote:Yeah it requires them to take a solid, standard HQ with lots of utility and effectiveness. On the downside, it also requires them to bring their basic troop choice that gets 40+ points of rules and equipment for free and completely dominates pretty much every other troop choice in the game easily.

Are you talking about Space Wolves or GK...

Heffling wrote:

Spellbound wrote:Yeah it requires them to take a solid, standard HQ with lots of utility and effectiveness. On the downside, it also requires them to bring their basic troop choice that gets 40+ points of rules and equipment for free and completely dominates pretty much every other troop choice in the game easily.

Are you talking about Space Wolves or GK...

Talking about gk. Space wolves only get like 5 points of free stuff.

As to the sardonic 6 rager, getting a6 to wound something is much easier than stealing the initiative - lots more rolls involved. It's not unrealistic to assume a 6 to wound will be rolled against it from any given unit. I'm not saying one grey knight is all you need always - but one single grey knight COULD do it. Ten would do it with more certainty.

But you've decided to throw the conversation away. Comparing two units in a vacuum is the only real way to do it. If you try to take EVERYTHING into account we get into "well I would bring this and do this" "and I'd counter with this doing this" "oh yeah well I already killed that by using THIS!"

It's silly and endless. I'm sure plenty of grey knight players get rocks to their scissors, or just plain make mistakes. After all, they didn't win first and second in all categories.

But it MUST be the player, because that broken codex has all the tools a monkey needs (including monkey henchmen!) to win.

Spellbound wrote:
But it MUST be the player, because that broken codex has all the tools a monkey needs (including monkey henchmen!) to win.

You mean like almost every other army?

Spellbound wrote:Comparing two units in a vacuum is the only real way to do it.

Really not much else to say to that.

DarthDiggler wrote:First off who the hell deploys two squads 25" away on a bare table and says whoever wins is better? That doesn't make any sense. The lack of imagination in unit creation and conduct in relation to an overall list is the source of your anger.

I don't care how much a grey knight costs relative to a tactical marine. Look at the codex. Vanilla marines can out msu the grey knights and create a target saturation that no amount of special gear will overcome.

Do this comparison. A strike squad at 200 pts vs. two typhoons. Typhoons shoot at 48" and decimate the strikes without ever getting shot at. The vanilla marines have access to them, Grey Knights do not. It's not just typhoons, but also Attack Bikes, cheap Predators, etc.. The vanilla marines can deploy 2-3 times as many units which all can contribute to destroy a strike squad. The strikes should get more stuff to try and make them playable in the face of all those units.

Deathcult assassins? Really? 10 tactical marines sit in trees = end of the deathcult assassins.

Does anyone play with terrain anymore?

Finally you tell me that the way your uber army list of henchman defeats thngs is by rolling a 6? You need a 6 and it's just going to happen? If that's the case you don't need henchmen to create the super list you think it is, you just need to roll your magic '6' to steal the initiative each game. You advocate rolling a 6 to kill the dreadknight so you must be able to roll the 6 to steal the initiative each game.

I look forward to reading about your never ending series of tournament wins with the 6's you will roll each time you need them.

Now you are comparing in the vacuum...A GK list can get far better long range shooting in riflemen dreads. Find me anything in the Nilla codex that is as cost efficient... I dare you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Norsehawk wrote:

Tri wrote:

gpfunk wrote:So, I assume that everyone has read the codex? It seems like a lot of people are overreacting or think that certain abilities are "auto win."

Auto win? No ... however they do come with some massively cheap toys.
Space marine on his own ... 16pts
Grey Knight on his own ... 20pts

So what do we pay 4pts for? We swap a bolt gun and bolt pistol for a storm bolter and a force weapon ... oh and the unit can boost their strength with hammer hands ... twice if there's a character.

On a model that dies exactly as easily as the 4 point cheaper model, gets no free special or heavy weapon either when you take a squad of them. Has a chance to take a perils of the warp hit killing the leader of the squad instantly 1/18th of the time, doesn't get any of the special chapter tactics either. If you decide to upgrade from the storm bolter, you also lose your force sword as well.

Question: If Grey Knights are so beatface awesome, super easy to build killer lists, why aren't they dominating the gaming scene?

They are doing quite well in the gaming scene. Just ask Jawaballs.

canthatenuff wrote:[Now you are comparing in the vacuum...A GK list can get far better long range shooting in riflemen dreads. Find me anything in the Nilla codex that is as cost efficient... I dare you.

I'm comparing units in a vacuum to show the absurdity of it. Rifleman dreads are good at shooting static transport lists, especially the ones built around a las/plas or twin-las razorback design. Rifleman dreads fail miserably to a simple termicide unit with a chainfist. Any MC that gets to the pack of rifleman dreads has a very good chance to kill them all. Any furioso dropped into their lines has a good chance to kill them all. It's a nice unit, but I wouldn't put all your eggs in that one basket.

Cost efficient? Autocannon Predator with side lascannons clocks in at 15pts cheaper, +1 front armor and 2 of it's 4 shots are ap2.

DarthDiggler wrote:

canthatenuff wrote:[Now you are comparing in the vacuum...A GK list can get far better long range shooting in riflemen dreads. Find me anything in the Nilla codex that is as cost efficient... I dare you.

I'm comparing units in a vacuum to show the absurdity of it. Rifleman dreads are good at shooting static transport lists, especially the ones built around a las/plas or twin-las razorback design. Rifleman dreads fail miserably to a simple termicide unit with a chainfist. Any MC that gets to the pack of rifleman dreads has a very good chance to kill them all. Any furioso dropped into their lines has a good chance to kill them all. It's a nice unit, but I wouldn't put all your eggs in that one basket.

Cost efficient? Autocannon Predator with side lascannons clocks in at 15pts cheaper, +1 front armor and 2 of it's 4 shots are ap2.

Ahh, but an autocannon predator cannot move 6 inches and fire to full effect, its las cannons are also not twin-linked. Finally the side armor is 11. Lets not even get into the issues of predator sponsons and how they often do not get to shoot to full effect due to LoS issues. Terminators don't just appear in front of dreads and kill them, they should and would die to the other many GK units with power weapons and higher initiative. MC's also shouldn't get to the lines of the Riflemen. What will a furioso do? Drop pod down and die?

The GK codex is better in nearly every way than the 'Nilla Marine codex. I don't understand why this is so controversial, its a newer codexes and is nicely balanced against the others.

Point costs are an issue. 600+ points of paladins will curbstomp 200 points of th/ss termies, but if the point count is the same and they are in range of a null zone/psychic hood things don't look good for the pallies.

schadenfreude wrote:Point costs are an issue. 600+ points of paladins will curbstomp 200 points of th/ss termies, but if the point count is the same and they are in range of a null zone/psychic hood things don't look good for the pallies.

...Lets not mix units. Lets look at similar units as well as similar points. (note I will only note differences)

SM Terminators 200pts for 5 models. They have ether a (Stormbolter and power fist) or (dual Lightning claws or Thunderhammer and storm shield)

GK Terminators 200pts for 5 models. They all have Nemis Force swords, stormbolters, hammerhand, Psyk-out grenades and the Aegis

So which is better? Well I think I'd have to go with the GK while they cannot get the amazing 3++ from SS they do get a reasonable 4++ in CC, they're troop and their upgrades are better. Psycannon, Banner (auto pass force weapon activation and +1 attack) Daemon hammer (force thunderhamer, on a model that can be Strength 5).

Paladins? Well the nearest thing we have to them are Nobs (in fact more a combination of all three types). Are they good value? They shoot better, have a better save, better equipment and can deepstrike. Biggest down side is they pay for having everything. Can't say I'm a massive fan but the extra wound and being able to have FNP does mean they're a great bully unit.
I have run three units of 1 with daemon hammers and its quite amazing how much Dakka was aimed at them.

Spellbound wrote:But you've decided to throw the conversation away. Comparing two units in a vacuum is the only real way to do it. If you try to take EVERYTHING into account we get into "well I would bring this and do this" "and I'd counter with this doing this" "oh yeah well I already killed that by using THIS!"

Comparing two units in a vacuum is okay if they fill the same role. Tactical Squads and Grey Knight Strike Squads don't. And keep in mind that, even when comparing in a vacuum, "which unit would kill each other" is not necessarily always the best method.

Tactical squad: Basic troop squad, hold objectives, good at shooting and assault [compared to many basic troops], hold the mid-field.

Strike squad: Basic troop squad, hold objectives, great at shooting, good [I want to say great, but people will complain] at assault, hold the mid-field.

Both can be equipped with weaponry to handle heavy armor and anti-infantry. HOW do they not serve the same role?



I also find it funny that someone said that you can take out psyfle dreads with termicide and/or drop pod furioso.

......Warp Quake, anyone? Jesus have we forgotten the basic abilities of the basic units? Please try to land your drop pod behind my lines. I'm sure my objective-holding strike squad will have something to say about it.

If all you need is to be basic, scoring, and decent at shooting than you can compare almost all troops from all armies with one another.

Tactical squads have guns that are focused towards certain targets (hordes, tanks, 2-3+ armor), and their combat squads play a large role in their deployment. Their combat tacticals also make the way they are used different than Strikes.

Strikes are mearly okay at shooting all three target types at once, with the bonus of being able to do it at 24", while remaining mobile.

Tacs take 10 mans with rhinos, split into 2 halves, 1 of which sits in the back shooting a heavy weapon while the other jumps in a rhino and kills things at short range.

Strikes either take 5 man units, or combat to create 2 mirror units that act exactly the same, moving into midfield and shooting things at 24". They take rhinos over razorbacks that shoot at infantry and light vehicles, and rarely get inside of these transports.

They are totally different. If you used tacs like you use strikes, or vice versa, they would not work at all. Therefore i don't think they are comparable.

So you're saying one can be equipped for two different roles, and split into two units, one of which is good at one role, while the other is good at a different role, and both will be fairly weak at the other's role.

And this is better than a unit that handles everything well, and can split into two units that each handles everything well.

I'm thinking they CAN be compared. And that the second one is clearly superior.

Also, again, combat tactics is great and all, but it's a rare thing indeed to see anyone running it. Most trade it in for twin-linked melta weapons or fleeting terminators.

Spellbound wrote:So you're saying one can be equipped for two different roles, and split into two units, one of which is good at one role, while the other is good at a different role, and both will be fairly weak at the other's role.

And this is better than a unit that handles everything well, and can split into two units that each handles everything well.

I'm thinking they CAN be compared. And that the second one is clearly superior.

That's true, but it doesn't apply to the Tactical Marines/Grey Knight Strike Squads debates. Grey Knight Strike Squads don't "handle everything well." For instance, they handle the role of "backfield scoring unit" much worse than Tactical Marines do, since the Grey Knights are more expensive and lack long-ranged weapon options. Similarly, they handle the role of "anti-vehicle sweeper" worse than Tactical Marines do, since psycannons are not reliable anti-vehicle weapons in the concentrations that GKSS bring to the table, especially against high-AV vehicles or when firing on the move is called for, whereas the meltaguns and combi-meltas fielded by Tactical Marines are, especially when buffed by Vulkan He'Stan. It all depends on what roles you need your units to play.

They fight totally differently, and are better at different thing depending on what they have.

A half tac squad with combi-melta and meltagun in a rhino can move 12", disembark 2" and shoot meltas 6" at a land raider, whith a pretty good chance of blowing it into the warp.

Strike squads stand still 24" away and hold their breath as they roll 4 dice, hit with 3 and pray to god they roll 6s to rend and 5s to pen and 5s to damage. They should never even be inside a rhino.

Totally different units. It's like comparing DE warriors with IG veterans, just because they come in 10 man squads, are troops, can take a transport, have a 5+ save and are T3 S3.

I don't really understand. Yes, assuming the meltas hit and penetrate [which btw I don't know why we really add the combi-melta into the mix, it's only a 1-shot so won't "usually" be there], they'll blow the tank on a 4+. It's not a guarantee they will though, and while per hit there's a better chance, there's fewer hits to be made and they're able to fire less often. Yes the strikes should be out of a rhino, but while the tac squad can from 21" away move forward 12, dump out and fire inside 6", the strike squad can from 39" away drive forward 12, dump out and fire 4 shots that while each is weaker, there's more........

You know what forget it. I don't understand at all. They clearly CAN be COMPARED, measuring the pluses and minuses of each. Trouble is I keep seeing minuses to the tac squad and NOT to the strike squad other than high cost, which I've always throughout my 40k career never considered to be a drawback provided the unit was WORTH it. I used to run around with a 310 point daemon prince because he was WORTH 310 points in survivability and killiness. Now I'm loathe to pay 155 points for said prince because he's hardly survivable at all and is as killy as Colonel Straken or some jackass captain with an Honor blade. Sure it's going to run 240 points for 10 Strikes with Psybolts and 2x psycannons but the unit can kill ANYTHING in the game except a Monolith while looking good and preventing deepstrikes. This unit SPITS amazing and I don't understand why people can't seem to see that past its price tag.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And let's not even consider what 5-man Purgation squads get for 100 points compared to ANY similar unit or what a single Purifier can do to the Green Tide, an entire apocalypse formation.

Comparing 1 unit to another outside of how they work in an actual army is fairly pointless.

Yes, obviously strikes are, in general, better than tacs, but they also cost more, and do very different things. Against a land raider, 4 melta tac squads might be better than 4 strike squads. Against terminators in assault strikes will do better. It's apples and oranges. If tacs had power weapons, and 18" 2 shot assault weapons that were s7 , heavy 3 assault 2, then i think we could directly compare them to strikes, since they'd be used in similar ways, and have inferior weapons.

Honestly, i think the only way to reliably decide is a codex is competitive is to compare lists made from each one with lists from all of the other armies and see how they do against the different competitive builds.

Stuff like, how does my GK list do against your average:
BA mech list,
BA DOA list,
SW Logan Wing,
SW GH/LF spam,
SW TWC spam,
DE raider spam,
DE foot (beasts and whatnot)
DE Venom spam
DE Wrack armies
SM Vulkan Lists
SM shooty lists
DA Termy / bike spam
SM drop pods
CSM lash
CSM Melta spam
BT Pred / razorback / termy armies
Nids MC spam
Nids little bug spam
IG tank heavy
IG Chimera heavy
IG foot
IG Assaulting Blobs
Whatever else. ( i obviously left things out, like SM bikes, or eldar anything)

In general, i think most GK lists will do fairly well against a lot of these lists (ie, at least hold their own), meaning they are a pretty good army. Some things (like mass FNP marines, for one thing) give them more trouble than other things, and that goes for all armies, really. There are such things as bad match ups, and ways to get around them.

Mass FNP marines don't do so hot against I6 power weapons, actually. Hell BA done space wolf las/plas razorback spam does much better than the usual assaulty list. Sure their stormbolters and psycannons don't do so hot against FNP marines - but they do better than a lot of other shooting save guard's S8 pieplates, and they can always supplement it with power weapon assault turns.

Spellbound wrote:

I also find it funny that someone said that you can take out psyfle dreads with termicide and/or drop pod furioso.

......Warp Quake, anyone? Jesus have we forgotten the basic abilities of the basic units? Please try to land your drop pod behind my lines. I'm sure my objective-holding strike squad will have something to say about it.

I never said a drop pod Furioso, but I did say a Furioso. You lack imagination. It's not the dice's fault when you lose games.

Fetterkey wrote:

Spellbound wrote:So you're saying one can be equipped for two different roles, and split into two units, one of which is good at one role, while the other is good at a different role, and both will be fairly weak at the other's role.

And this is better than a unit that handles everything well, and can split into two units that each handles everything well.

I'm thinking they CAN be compared. And that the second one is clearly superior.

That's true, but it doesn't apply to the Tactical Marines/Grey Knight Strike Squads debates. Grey Knight Strike Squads don't "handle everything well." For instance, they handle the role of "backfield scoring unit" much worse than Tactical Marines do, since the Grey Knights are more expensive and lack long-ranged weapon options. Similarly, they handle the role of "anti-vehicle sweeper" worse than Tactical Marines do, since psycannons are not reliable anti-vehicle weapons in the concentrations that GKSS bring to the table, especially against high-AV vehicles or when firing on the move is called for, whereas the meltaguns and combi-meltas fielded by Tactical Marines are, especially when buffed by Vulkan He'Stan. It all depends on what roles you need your units to play.

Here is where henchmen come into play. As you point out, Purifiers and Strike Squads are not the best backfield units, their weapons are mid-range and they are too expensive to camp with. So you buy yourself a 62 point razorback with scoring units. Problem solved.

canthatenuff wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

Spellbound wrote:So you're saying one can be equipped for two different roles, and split into two units, one of which is good at one role, while the other is good at a different role, and both will be fairly weak at the other's role.

And this is better than a unit that handles everything well, and can split into two units that each handles everything well.

I'm thinking they CAN be compared. And that the second one is clearly superior.

That's true, but it doesn't apply to the Tactical Marines/Grey Knight Strike Squads debates. Grey Knight Strike Squads don't "handle everything well." For instance, they handle the role of "backfield scoring unit" much worse than Tactical Marines do, since the Grey Knights are more expensive and lack long-ranged weapon options. Similarly, they handle the role of "anti-vehicle sweeper" worse than Tactical Marines do, since psycannons are not reliable anti-vehicle weapons in the concentrations that GKSS bring to the table, especially against high-AV vehicles or when firing on the move is called for, whereas the meltaguns and combi-meltas fielded by Tactical Marines are, especially when buffed by Vulkan He'Stan. It all depends on what roles you need your units to play.

Here is where henchmen come into play. As you point out, Purifiers and Strike Squads are not the best backfield units, their weapons are mid-range and they are too expensive to camp with. So you buy yourself a 62 point razorback with scoring units. Problem solved.

That 62 point scoring unit is in a AV11 gun box with only a 3 shot S6 gun. Not too shabby, but not something likely to last either. And the guys inside won't survive a stiff breeze, and serve no purpose other than to take the transport. You need a beefier squad than 3 guys with T3 and armor that might as well not be there to score. Henchmen are better used to unlock chimeras, which are like the razorback, but slightly pricier, but with fire points, better backfield armor (AV12 from the most likely direction) and more shots. They give up fortitude, but thats ok considering what you gain (a reason to take a more useful yet still cheap squad, and more dakka). Spend 10 more points and get the chimera and pay a little more to give the henchies some guns, and maybe extra bodies.

You meant the furioso was just walking up the field after deploying normally, not using fancy deployment methods unique to its army.....I guess I do lack imagination, I never would have guessed it used NO special abilities and just walked up the field. I suppose it could be transported by a stormraven - but not using skies of blood! Nothing too fancy, now...

DakkaDakka wrote: