Once again why did they change to 'fine'cast?!?!?!

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**Wulfen Andy**

I liked metal! Never had one mis-cast with them back in the day! Unfortunately I have noticed a SEVERE decline in mouldings from the early 90's to now. I agree with people who say that GW customer service is good-it is until you want a refund.
But I also agree with people who say about getting quality for your money. Although the fluff in some places in the game appears to be getting silly and the models are getting 'more detail', in general QA and quality is going down. I was shocked at the gaping holes I had to fill with my metal Canis Wolfborn - never had it with my Bjorn the Fellhanded. Some of the plastics are cast with a couple a mm off-set (not good). But its all the crap that GW have shoved down our throats about the wonders of 'fine'cast. It was rushed, moulded badly, had the annoying pink ejection solution dried onto the models, loads of airholes and flippin' expensive!

When I was collecting GW models etc (from 1993-ish). the paints used to be £1.20 a pot! Now £2.30 and I'm not too sure about the greatness of the paints in all fairness - I will be trying out Vallejo due to the amount of paint and the price!

It just seems that quality in general is going down whilst prices are going up!

**The Mad Tanker**

Coolyo294 wrote:I quite like Finecast. I've never gotten a bad cast and I've always hated metal models.

Same experience for me, I have a Finecast Yarrik and he is great. Way better then the metal models, impossible to keep together and paint.

**Boomer**

oh i thought this contained infomation! But no just more of the same old nerd raging :( If you don't like the models, the paints, the prices, the GW staff, the location of the stores, the background fluff then really what do you enjoy about being involved in this hobby?
And why do Mods let these threads carry on?

**Deadshot**

Boomer wrote:oh i thought this contained infomation! But no just more of the same old nerd raging :( If you don't like the models, the paints, the prices, the GW staff, the location of the stores, the background fluff then really what do you enjoy about being involved in this hobby?
And why do Mods let these threads carry on?

Well said, +1.

**-Loki-**

Wulfen Andy wrote:When I was collecting GW models etc (from 1993-ish). the paints used to be £1.20 a pot! Now £2.30 and I'm not too sure about the greatness of the paints in all fairness - I will be trying out Vallejo due to the amount of paint and the price!

In '93 I used to buy a bottle of coke for $1.00au and petrol was 60c/L. Guess what? They're about triple that now.

**Henners91**

H.B.M.C. wrote:The change to Finecast was was done for a set of completely legitimate, intelligent, prudent and pragmatic reasons:

1. They are a business.
2. Businesses need to keep track of overheads.
3. When certain overheads become too expensive, they must be dumped, sourced from elsewhere, or alternatives found.
4. The UK economy is in the toilet.
5. GW isn't making money.
6. Tin prices were going up and up, making the long-term future of metal miniatures doubtful.
7. Resin is a cheaper alternative to metal.
8. Change metal models into resin models of approximate detail, and the overheads decrease. The models are far cheaper to produce and the materials that make them are much cheaper to procure.

See? All that makes perfect sense. Any company in a similar situation would be stupid not to change their production methods and save themselves a lot of money in the process.

Of course, this is Games Workshop - home of the great concept and terrible execution. What should have been the transfer from metal to resin suddenly turned into something else - they tried to make it an event, with hyperbolic marketing language that was simply laughable (a revolution in miniatures, most detailed models in the world). That was a bad start.

Then they put the prices up. Yes, put the prices up on something that was done as a (completely legitimate) cost-cutting measure. I have no issue with GW attempting to cut costs. I take great issue with GW cutting costs and then spiking the price to create and even wider margin. That's just vindictive and contemptuous.

And then to cap it all off (as if that was't bad enough), the QA on the products themselves turned out to be non-existent, with miniature quality dropping to below that of Forge World (and they are notorious for their QA problems). Badly moulded, broken, and miscast models, parts of the mould stuck to the models (yet they were shipped as if perfect) all combined with a cheap and nasty material that is quite easy to stick together but is as bendy as gak. We've seen the pictures, we've heard the stories of people going through blister after blister to find passable models. We've even seen one of the largest retailers in the UK cease all trading of the Finecast product lines. Not good.

When combined with all the marketing bs about a miniature second coming... well... is it any surprise to see what people think about Failcost? It was a perfectly good thing to do, but sadly it was Games Workshop that attempted to do it.

"That... is why you fail." - Yoda, a casual gamer.

For a moment I'd thought H.B.M.C. was making a post that doesn't slam into Games Workshop... I nearly had a heart attack o.O

**Cerebrium**

I don't like the price increase etc, but every finecast model I've ever bought has been find. I had a single mold line on my ogre tyrant, which came off anyway.

Finecast > Metal.

**Wulfen Andy**

Boomer wrote:oh i thought this contained infomation! But no just more of the same old nerd raging :( If you don't like the models, the paints, the prices, the GW staff, the location of the stores, the background fluff then really what do you enjoy about being involved in this hobby?
And why do Mods let these threads carry on?

What a pathetic reply! Haven't you heard of freedom of speech? If people have a grievence, then they should be allowed to say whats on their mind - just like you have!
First of all I am not a nerd - I have a life, marriage, drive a fast car, play rugby as well as researching my PhD and play/collect this hobby. I have also moved into commission work for this hobby.
The models in general are good. Just problems seem to plague me w.r.t. 'fine'cast.
The paints could be better - hence the gradual move to Vallejo.
The GW staff are some of the best UNDER PAID members of our community when considering what they have to do for their pathetic wages.
Store locations are fine and their postal service equally so.
The fluff is very interesting with a few exceptions thanks to Ward.
And I do like this hobby.
Prices in this world do go up (don't think that I am naїve) GW prices have always been higher than what should truly be asked for concerning little models and the rest.

Working on a commission today and spending an awful amount of time to sort out Corteaz's cloak, the GW paint did not adhere to the 'fine'cast resin that well, once again not new to me I'm afraid and the result is shown. I have this poor chap waiting for this model (and others) and this infuriating episode has cost me a decent amount of time.

Perhaps 1, you should have looked at the title of the post and the amount of replies and put 2 and 2 together and,
2, Stop reading the posts and moved on if things like this annoy you so much!

Cheers

**nectarprime**

Wulfen Andy wrote:
First of all I am not a nerd -

Sorry, but anyone who plays 40k is automatically a nerd. Being a nerd is a good thing.

**cgmckenzie**

Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

**Ridealgh**

yevix wrote:
Iranna wrote:Nothing a little greenstuff can't fix, suck it up man!

Iranna.

I hope you use green stuff on yourself and close your mouth shut, nothing is more annoying then spending hard earned cash on a 28mm plastic figure then find out you need to mend it and fix it because its poor quality.

the issue is not that you cant fix it the issue is that you shouldn't have to fix if when you spend £12.50 on Astorath

just think about it I can buy a pc mouse for less then £10 that has more tech and plastic then then any 28mm figure you can name.

Seriously dude calm down if you get a Fine cast model and it's got problems and GW won't replace it then use green stuff. That's all she was saying. Chill out

Plust when i bought a finecast Azhag the Slaugterer he was missing a hand and his left wing was spazzy. So they gave me another one. No big deal.

**Deadshot**

My Draigo finecast, and I jhave said this about 100 times, in 20 different threads, has a sword with a heat problem. The heat in my case causes it to bend at almost 90 degrees. And the paint still is perfect. It might be down to the tiny layer of varnish, but i doubt it, because the varnish is coming off most of my models.

**DarknessEternal**

Wulfen Andy wrote:Haven't you heard of freedom of speech?

That's a right no one has on this forum. It's also a right not all countries supported by GW have. It's pretty irrelevant.

**cgmckenzie**

Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

**Wulfen Andy**

cgmckenzie wrote:Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

And how do you know that I didn't prime the model?! Come on friend, I have been painting these models for over 10 years!!!! Do you seriously think that I am that thick? Do you seriously think that I would not prime a commission model?! The model was PRIMED with chaos black spray, then lightly coated several times with thinned (added flow aid) white to obtain a good covering flat coat for the red I airsprayed on afterwards.

To think that I did not prime and then go on about painting 101 when you have no idea about my skills or experience truly astounds me! Don't make that mistake again! And as I posted earlier, try to keep the sarcasm out as it does nothing but annoys.

**nectarprime**

Wulfen Andy wrote:
cgmckenzie wrote:Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

And how do you know that I didn't prime the model?! Come on friend, I have been painting these models for over 10 years!!!! Do you seriously think that I am that thick? Do you seriously think that I would not prime a commission model?! The model was PRIMED with chaos black spray, then lightly coated several times with thinned (added flow aid) white to obtain a good covering flat coat for the red I airsprayed on afterwards.

To think that I did not prime and then go on about painting 101 when you have no idea about my skills or experience truly astounds me! Don't make that mistake again! And as I posted earlier, try to keep the sarcasm out as it does nothing but annoys.

Wow you got really mad at that lol. Did you wash the model before priming it?

**Wulfen Andy**

cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nectarprime wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
cgmckenzie wrote:Prime the model. You prime metal, you prime plastic, you prime resin. That's painting 101. Not priming and then complaining about your paint not sticking is silly.

-cgmckenzie

And how do you know that I didn't prime the model?! Come on friend, I have been painting these models for over 10 years!!!! Do you seriously think that I am that thick? Do you seriously think that I would not prime a commission model?! The model was PRIMED with chaos black spray, then lightly coated several times with thinned (added flow aid) white to obtain a good covering flat coat for the red I airsprayed on afterwards.

To think that I did not prime and then go on about painting 101 when you have no idea about my skills or experience truly astounds me! Don't make that mistake again! And as I posted earlier, try to keep the sarcasm out as it does nothing but annoys.

Wow you got really mad at that lol. Did you wash the model before priming it?

Hi There!

Yes I am sorry but it is not a good thing for people to assume things which have no basis! Yep I wash every model just in case the ejection fluids etc. are still attached and can disturb your painting!!! I was taking off some Tamiya tape (had to reduce the stickiness of the tape before putting on though!) and the whole lot came off! Grrrr!!!

**nectarprime**

Wulfen Andy wrote:
cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Not on the internet.

**Wulfen Andy**

nectarprime wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Not on the internet.

Trying not to be too pedantic but this is from the fount of all knowledge!!!

The right to freedom of expression is recognised as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the ICCPR states that "[e]veryone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".

**cgmckenzie**

There was no sarcasm in that post. You were complaining about the paint not sticking to the model, so it's a pretty simply conclusion to draw that you didn't prime.

Basecoating it with chaos black is different than priming, BTW. Primer is not paint, and if you have been doing commissions for years, you should know that.

I personally use a matte black primer spray that I picked up at a hardware store and have had amazing results with it on any surface, including resin. It base coats and primes, allowing my paint to stick to it and works as a base coat.

-cgmckenzie

**Wulfen Andy**

Yes I do know, but I have used this spray (or should I say method) as primer for sooooo many years now and has worked very well for metal, hybrids and plastic - resin is showing frailty on the bonding.

**timbosix**

wwellll at my local GW they said to me: if something isnt right with the model come here and youll get a new one.......only finecast i have so far= a jump pack chaplain and a squad sterngaurd.... PAiNTING=TOTALY NEW EXPERIENCE WITH FINECAST!!!!!!!

**cgmckenzie**

I just checked the GW website and they are advertising the chaos black spray as a paint/primer two in one. So, it is either a different formula than the paint pot CB or, more likely, the same formula but with primer slapped on the label. Are you using the airbrush with CB from the pot or the spray can one?

Also, try checking out your local hardware store for a real black primer. It will stick better and, if you are using it as a base coat, should be painted over mostly so the minor color discrepancy between chaos black and industrial primer black should be negligible. YMMV, though.

-cgmckenzie

**Wulfen Andy**

cgmckenzie wrote:I just checked the GW website and they are advertising the chaos black spray as a paint/primer two in one. So, it is either a different formula than the paint pot CB or, more likely, the same formula but with primer slapped on the label. Are you using the airbrush with CB from the pot or the spray can one?

Also, try checking out your local hardware store for a real black primer. It will stick better and, if you are using it as a base coat, should be painted over mostly so the minor color discrepancy between chaos black and industrial primer black should be negligible. YMMV, though.

-cgmckenzie

The spray can one! It seems to be very stick when sprayed, but I am moving over to Vallejo paints and will be trying their primers - do you know if they are any good?!

**nectarprime**

Wulfen Andy wrote:
nectarprime wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:
cgmckenzie wrote:Besides, freedom of speech only applies to the US government not being able to tell you to shut up. It does nothing to protect you from private citizens.

Just thought you should know.

-cgmckenzie

Might be for America but in THIS country, so long as you are not causing alarm, harrassment and distress or anything which could constitute as slander, you can say what you like.
You might like to know this also!

Not on the internet.

Trying not to be too pedantic but this is from the fount of all knowledge!!!

The right to freedom of expression is recognised as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the ICCPR states that "[e]veryone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".

Sorry, but the fact of the matter is, if you are posting on someone's website, and they don't like what you have to say, they can remove your ability to speak freely. It doesn't matter what country you are in.

Now, back on topic, and I'm sorry if I have missed this, but have you called customer service?

**Wulfen Andy**

I normally pop into the store. They deal with things wonderfully! Whenever I come to deal with something, one of the chaps will say "finecast again?!" to my answer of "yep!"

**Boomer**

Wulfen Andy wrote:

What a pathetic reply! <snipped out the lies and yet more pointless and boring nerd rage>

Perhaps 1, you should have looked at the title of the post and the amount of replies and put 2 and 2 together and,
2, Stop reading the posts and moved on if things like this annoy you so much!

Cheers

lol, im not the one throwing my toys out of the pram because someone on the internet points your a whingy geek. Dude i dont care about what fantastic lies you can come up with, you can be a greasy, overweight 49 year old virgin wearing your mums dress for all i care. I like everything about Games Workshop, ive been a fan since i was a small boy back in 80's. It was an expensive hobby back then. And im my humble view not much has got worse mostly only better, the paints are better, there are washes now, the brushs are better, the plastic kits are bigger and better, the codexs are bigger and better presented. Nothing you have vomitted onto this thread hasnt been said before by sweaty angry nerds like you. Infact try a thread like this on Whineseer. They love to join the G.W hating there and they they might even try and cheer you up with lies like saying your good at painting! If you keeping bashing the company that make the hobby i and lots of others love then expect the G.W lovers to bash you back! Now go get your balls out of your made up wifes purse and lets see what kind of cutting insults you can come back with.

**-Loki-**

Wulfen Andy wrote:
cgmckenzie wrote:I just checked the GW website and they are advertising the chaos black spray as a paint/primer two in one. So, it is either a different formula than the paint pot CB or, more likely, the same formula but with primer slapped on the label. Are you using the airbrush with CB from the pot or the spray can one?

Also, try checking out your local hardware store for a real black primer. It will stick better and, if you are using it as a base coat, should be painted over mostly so the minor color discrepancy between chaos black and industrial primer black should be negligible. YMMV, though.

-cgmckenzie

The spray can one! It seems to be very stick when sprayed, but I am moving over to Vallejo paints and will be trying their primers - do you know if they are any good?!

Try Army Painter primers. They also have the benefit of very closely colour matching their primers to GW colours, so you might be able to skip the black/white stage altogether.

**Wulfen Andy**

Boomer wrote:
Wulfen Andy wrote:

What a pathetic reply! <snipped out the lies and yet more pointless and boring nerd rage>

Perhaps 1, you should have looked at the title of the post and the amount of replies and put 2 and 2 together and,
2, Stop reading the posts and moved on if things like this annoy you so much!

Cheers

lol, im not the one throwing my toys out of the pram because someone on the internet points your a whingy geek. Dude i dont care about what fantastic lies you can come up with, you can be a greasy, overweight 49 year old virgin wearing your mums dress for all i care. I like everything about Games Workshop, ive been a fan since i was a small boy back in 80's. It was an expensive hobby back then. And im my humble view not much has got worse mostly only better, the paints are better, there are washes now, the brushs are better, the plastic kits are bigger and better, the codexs are bigger and better presented. Nothing you have vomitted onto this thread hasnt been said before by sweaty angry nerds like you. Infact try a thread like this on Whineseer. They love to join the G.W hating there and they they might even try and cheer you up with lies like saying your good at painting! If you keeping bashing the company that make the hobby i and lots of others love then expect the G.W lovers to bash you back! Now go get your balls out of your made up wifes purse and lets see what kind of cutting insults you can come back with.

Perhaps morons like you need to rub the two IQ points you possess and start a fire. How dare you attack me like this?

**Lorek**

OK, seriously? Wulfen Andy, you hit the Mod alert button about Boomer's post above, but you reply like this?

First, please re-read Rule #1 for Dakka Dakka.

Back? Good. Now, on to the whole "freedom of speech" thing you've been on about. Dakka Dakka is a privately owned forum, and as such, may legally restrict its content in any way that it sees fit. Yes, even in the UK. Posting here is a privilege, and not some sort of Human Right like you seem to think it is.

This is your first warning, so other than locking this train wreck of a thread, I'm not going to take any further action.

In the future, please post politely no matter how frustrated you get with other posters.

Thank you.