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MikZor wrote:Wowser that's pretty nasty like $2 AUD per L nasty.
Good call on the fuel then OP, ring them and get the replacement, or send it in worst case scenario.
And maybe invest in a bike

I have two already (although selling one!). I also live in a village miles from most places!

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

Yep! It is cheap in many places but I have found that petrol is more expensive in France but the diesel price (I use diesel) is cheaper than here!!! Also don't worry about the scale systems we have you'll soon evolve lol! Although in saying that I prefer our half metric half imperial to the European fully metric!

yevix wrote:

MikZor wrote:Wowser that's pretty nasty like $2 AUD per L nasty.
Good call on the fuel then OP, ring them and get the replacement, or send it in worst case scenario.
And maybe invest in a bike

diesel in US dollars would be $2.21

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

1 US gallon = 3.785411784 liters. = $8.177
1 UK (Imperial) gallon = 4.54609188 liters. = $9.945


gave up my car MONTHS ago now I am a fooslogger

I just hope (knowing the short-term answer) that something can be done about the prices such as bio-fuels or electric cars etc!

But a big thanks to all who posted - sometimes it's good to have a good rant! Well, definately not going in circles - I will make sure that if I buy finecast again, I will get the GW staff to open it before I pay! I will be returning Grim due to his wings breaking on removal! And thanks for clearing up the fact he doesn't have eyes!

Cheers chaps!
Andy

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

Oil prices go up, but the government doesn't slacken the taxes...

But hey, it should *hopefully* encourage us not to romp around in huge 4x4s wasting finite resources...

The change to Finecast was was done for a set of completely legitimate, intelligent, prudent and pragmatic reasons:

1. They are a business.
2. Businesses need to keep track of overheads.
3. When certain overheads become too expensive, they must be dumped, sourced from elsewhere, or alternatives found.
4. The UK economy is in the toilet.
5. GW isn't making money.
6. Tin prices were going up and up, making the long-term future of metal miniatures doubtful.
7. Resin is a cheaper alternative to metal.
8. Change metal models into resin models of approximate detail, and the overheads decrease. The models are far cheaper to produce and the materials that make them are much cheaper to procure.

See? All that makes perfect sense. Any company in a similar situation would be stupid not to change their production methods and save themselves a lot of money in the process.

Of course, this is Games Workshop - home of the great concept and terrible execution. What should have been the transfer from metal to resin suddenly turned into something else - they tried to make it an event, with hyperbolic marketing language that was simply laughable (a revolution in miniatures, most detailed models in the world). That was a bad start.

Then they put the prices up. Yes, put the prices up on something that was done as a (completely legitimate) cost-cutting measure. I have no issue with GW attempting to cut costs. I take great issue with GW cutting costs and then spiking the price to create and even wider margin. That's just vindictive and contemptuous.

And then to cap it all off (as if that was't bad enough), the QA on the products themselves turned out to be non-existent, with miniature quality dropping to below that of Forge World (and they are notorious for their QA problems). Badly moulded, broken, and miscast models, parts of the mould stuck to the models (yet they were shipped as if perfect) all combined with a cheap and nasty material that is quite easy to stick together but is as bendy as gak. We've seen the pictures, we've heard the stories of people going through blister after blister to find passable models. We've even seen one of the largest retailers in the UK cease all trading of the Finecast product lines. Not good.

When combined with all the marketing bs about a miniature second coming... well... is it any surprise to see what people think about Failcost? It was a perfectly good thing to do, but sadly it was Games Workshop that attempted to do it.

"That... is why you fail." - Yoda, a casual gamer.

Locclo wrote:Assuming I did my math right...does that equal out to roughly $7.40 a gallon? We here in the U.S. don't use your stinking metric system

If so, ouch. Seriously. I'm not complaining about my $3.80 a gallon anymore.

Americans pay much less for gasoline because we consume so much more. It also might have something to do with the general impossibility of enacting any working public transportation system in a country as large as ours that is relativly sparsely populated.
If the UK would stop bending to thier road lobbies and invest in updating thier dilapidated rail system and I dunno, try to competently manage it...I dunno where I was going with that. Get an Electric motor with sufficient power and a decent battery and make an electro bike.

yevix wrote:and you never read previous post you just jump into a forum and start posting like a mindless robot, if you read what I posted you can clearly see that I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY GW ITEMS (well only a few times with metal ones)

Nothing like insulting people because they don't agree with you. On top of that you falsely call GW asking for replacements for non-existent minis. Yeah guess we know the kind of person we are dealing with now.

Skriker

AustonT wrote:Americans pay much less for gasoline because we consume so much more.

The price difference between many countries (Australia being a notable exception) for a unit of gas is almost solely based on taxes.

Also, while tin prices have gone up in the last decade or so, it's been nowhere as steep a rise as oil. But I think HMBC makes a good point that GW is a company that takes a decent-sounding idea and totally feths it up.

I also suspect that a lot of the reason that we're seeing different quality in the casts is because newer models are designed for Finecast moulds while older models are still using metal moulds (or at least masters cast from the metal moulds). As more models and moulds are redesigned with Finecast in mind, hopefully the rate of error will decrease.

So, what I've heard so far is

"GW has screwed up on a brand new product, thus, they are terrible,"

"GW has screwed up on a brand new product, but they're trying their best, so you're terrible,"

I'll admit, I've gotten a fethed up finecast, and they should probably have done a better job of it, but GW is also trying its best to keep people happy, and fix this problem.

Now, I must ready myself to get shredded by other posters.

I only got one finecast model, and despite being terrified that it would be mangled beyond recognition, it ended up being perfect.

I'm more concerned about the fragility of resine... very breakable, I don't know if forgeworld resine is the same or not.

Finecast is good. You got a bad one. Would you have cried like this if it were metal or plastic?

Skriker wrote:

yevix wrote:and you never read previous post you just jump into a forum and start posting like a mindless robot, if you read what I posted you can clearly see that I HAVE NEVER HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY GW ITEMS (well only a few times with metal ones)

Nothing like insulting people because they don't agree with you. On top of that you falsely call GW asking for replacements for non-existent minis. Yeah guess we know the kind of person we are dealing with now.

Skriker

Mate calm down its not like I am actually going to ask them to send me a new model, I have to send it in with my details so if I don't nothing happens. You need to realize I did that call to make a point (again you made a poor assumption that I actually fallowed through with my call) - and yes I did a slight insult and I apologize but you didn't exactly read my previous posts did you. you felt to simply make assumptions and say what you wanted, twice.

my final words to you, Computer says no. *cough* Carol Beer

I open the packaging in the shop (they have craft knives). So far I have not had any issues but that way I can simply hand it back there and then.

I think the worst thing about them is that they are fundamentally fragile. It is dead easy to break them if you are at all rough and since you have to really chop at the basing slots to get them to shape you could easily snap one off and then you would not be able to take it back.

I just don't use those slots. I take the pegs off and glue it straight on.

Isengard wrote:I open the packaging in the shop (they have craft knives). So far I have not had any issues but that way I can simply hand it back there and then.

I think the worst thing about them is that they are fundamentally fragile. It is dead easy to break them if you are at all rough and since you have to really chop at the basing slots to get them to shape you could easily snap one off and then you would not be able to take it back.

Yes I would have to totally agree on the fragile nature! The amount of times I have had to glue bits on is stupid, but what is worse, I had to recently glue on Zagstrukk's joystick (once again) when handling the model! I was told that it was best to break all delicate parts then glue them back on afterwards for a better bonding (GW manager) but I have already used superglue more than once on Zag's model! Also the latest brittle nature came in the form on Dante where his sodding slot piece and his axe both broke on release from the sprue! For some reason it took a long time to get the axe together with super glue!

I'll tell you why they replaced metal.


It SUCKED.


End of.

I can tell you i quite like fine cast. besides the little bit of effort it takes to prep your models, its better. I play tyranids and getting a zoey to stand up when they were metal made me want to punch a small child. also the new hive guard are sweet!

True. I have 2 metal Hives, they were a nightmare. Turns out dry green stuff is useless.

As for the Zoany, I have a metal one. It stands( though not on a hill), but that is because I used an obscene amount of green stuff.

I see this thread is full of the usual "you need to grow up, whiner" responses from the usual GW apologists.

Fact is, if you pay £14+ for a single model, that model should be flawless.

No excuses.

Then, by rights, all models should be flawless. You pay at least £20 for a squad, so they should all be flawless.

GW can't guarentee that a model will be perfect, but they do try their best.

scarletsquig wrote:I see this thread is full of the usual "you need to grow up, whiner" responses from the usual GW apologists.

Fact is, if you pay £14+ for a single model, that model should be flawless.

No excuses.

And yet, some people pay $20,000+ for a car and it's a lemon. See where I'm going with this?

Or pay to see some singers when the suck raw eggs and barf them back up, before sucking them up again, *coughBiebercough*.

Plus, as has already been mentioned, metal models were hardly perfect. The detail was a bit off, getting Zoanthropes to stand up was a nightmare (ARGH!) they chip, they are usually covered with fiddly little vents which are a buggar to remove and are targets for chipping, and more often than not they don't fit together properly. Take the metal Hive Tyrant: The torso fits together so badly it looks like the 3 components were from 3 different kits.

I'm certainly no fan of finecast, because I unabashedly love metal models. GWs first run of finecast was admittedly garbage, but the one thing I have come to expect from GW is customer service. In the way back, when bits ordering was still open, I bought a Furioso and a LR Crusader about a month apart. The Fury was missing a powerclaw, I called them and 2 days later I had two more in the mail. I thought it was just an accident until the Crusader; it was missing ONE hurricane bolter that's it. I again called GW and I recieved the entire pewter sponson. My experience with CS at GW has been that they will make it right, and then some. I'm far from a GW defender with thier needless annual price hikes, irratatingly regular orange peeling on certain models I purchased several copies of, and their ham fisted finecast release. But they deserve a fair shake, if you have a substandard product in your hand they will replace it, through the post if that's what you want, at thier cost. That said, it shouldn't be this way.

scarletsquig wrote:I see this thread is full of the usual "you need to grow up, whiner" responses from the usual GW apologists.

Fact is, if you pay £14+ for a single model, that model should be flawless.

No excuses.

So I take it you cried like this any time you got a miscast metal?

Because if you never got one, you're fething lucky. Metal miscasts happened, and hey, just like Finecast, GW replaced them.

When casting models, you'll never get 100% quality assurance, and defects will go out. Even the awesome, 'collector' quality stuff gets this. Mcvey studios? Someone in general discussion (I have a hunch it was Killkrazy, but I might be wrong) for a fethed up limited run model from them. He fixed it, though Mcvey Studios would have obviously replaced it for free.

Miscasts happen. They've always happened and will always happen. Finecast was a absolutely gigantic release, with about a hundred individual models across 3 games and lots of ranges, so the amount of miscasts was going to be amplified - the more you release, the greater the miscast rate goes up just on casting, let alone what gets past QA. Finecast getting miscasts would have been completely expected by GW, which is why they put in limited purchases per person, to give a better chance at having remaining stock to replace any miscasts.

The fact that the general internet community had a sudden brainfart and forgot every miniatures company, casting in resin, metal or plastic sends out miscasts due to not catching them at QA and suddenly threw all their hate at GW probably wasn't expected, though they probably expected a greater level of intelligence in their consumers, which is never good business practice.

Bought a box of Incubi a few weeks back, my god i never knew things could bend, warp, and break so easily. I refuse to buy any new finecast models. I quite liked the old metal models, made me feel like my IC actually mentsomething as they were more weight in my hand. Now i resort to just make my own IC models from various bits. Already made a pretty sweet Dante, Sanquinar, Astorath, and Jump Pack Librarian all from the Sanquinary Guard box

It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it? Of course you wouldn't, and you'd wonder how a company the size and prestige of Apple had managed to allow such a failure to get past their QA. As GW are marketing and profiling themselves as the Apple of the wargaming industry, (my words not theirs) with the 'best quality model soldiers in the world' coupled with astronomical prices, these finecast issues are in exactly the same vein, just on a different scale.

I don't know whether 'beaten spouse syndrome' is just the accepted norm when dealing with anything GW, but there's a scarily high degree of nonchalance here.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

I'm not saying you shouldn't expect quality. You absolutely, positively should.

I'm saying that claiming that every model should be absolutely perfect is rubbish. Any mold is going to produce miscasts, and miscasts are going to get past QA. This has been happening for decades. Plastics have very, very few problems, but metals and resins do get a lot of miscasts due to the nature of the mold and material. If you get a miscast, however, return it. For any company. Even companies with smaller runs of miniatures or limited edition miniatures with high track records of quality produce, and send out occasionally, miscast products. This isn't something new to GW and finecast.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it?

No, you'd just have the company replace it. Just like GW and Apple do all the time without incident.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:It seems to me that people are placing far less value into their own hard earned than they should. The fact that there are posters in this thread that are of the belief that you shouldn't expect quality from a luxury manufacturer is just baffling.

If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it? Of course you wouldn't, and you'd wonder how a company the size and prestige of Apple had managed to allow such a failure to get past their QA. As GW are marketing and profiling themselves as the Apple of the wargaming industry, (my words not theirs) with the 'best quality model soldiers in the world' coupled with astronomical prices, these finecast issues are in exactly the same vein, just on a different scale.

I don't know whether 'beaten spouse syndrome' is just the accepted norm when dealing with anything GW, but there's a scarily high degree of nonchalance here.

L. Wrex

There is an allowed amount of dead pixels on monitors. I think it is 5 but I might be mistaken. So that means your new Macbook could have 4 dead pixels and you'll have to live with it. If it's 5 or more, and they cover it, they won't send you a brand new laptop even if yours is a day old. You have to send yours in to get fixed. So then your "brand new" Mac has already been to the shop and had factory parts replaced.

GW, on the other hand, will usually replace the whole model if so much as a bolter is miscast.

So, ya, not a very good analogy on your part :/

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:If you bought a brand new Macbook and it had a crack in the screen, a dead pixel or a dent in its body, would you be happy with it? Of course you wouldn't, and you'd wonder how a company the size and prestige of Apple had managed to allow such a failure to get past their QA. As GW are marketing and profiling themselves as the Apple of the wargaming industry, (my words not theirs) with the 'best quality model soldiers in the world' coupled with astronomical prices, these finecast issues are in exactly the same vein, just on a different scale.

I do expect good quality from GW and if I don't get it then I complain until I do. I complain directly to GW and don't bemoan the entire product line and call it *all* garbage because I got a bad mini or two. Manufactured "luxury" items are not magically immune from Murphy's law by any means. IMHO what matters isn't necessarily that every product a company makes is perfect, but how they handle the situation when I get hit with an imperfect item. If they fall all over themselves to get me a replacement in a timely and cost neutral manner to me then I am still a happy customer. If they act like their mistake was my fault, give me a hard time getting a timely replacement, expect me to pay to return their mistakes without refunds of shipping costs then I will no longer be a customer.

Given the massive amount of GW minis I have bought in the last 26+ years and the infintessimal percentage of them that had problems I am not going to lose any sleep over it nor get as cranky about it as some people in this thread seem to be getting.

Skriker

Having worked in the industry, and knowing what it takes to make miniatures like the ones people are buying from GW, I agree that some models will get past QA. But the reason is that they produce so many models that they cannot possibly look at every single miniature. If they did they would be paying that employee more money than the miniatures are worth and in effect losing money. It's not cost effective nor is it realistic.

Having said that, there IS a standard to uphold as a miniatures caster. As the mold is opened and the models taken out it is the responsibility of the caster to examine his models to make sure glaring problems such as tear out are not occuring. And having looked over numerous so called fine cast miniatures over the past few months, I can confidently say the majority of them are crap. I've seen a lot of them on store shelves that are cast so bad that if I had done that while working I would have been fired. There is no excuse for the amount of bad models that have made it to the shelves. The majority of them have tear out problems and some even have mold shift problems. This is just plain not caring about the models but just sending them out no matter how they look. Quality control in the production department must be non existant for this amount of bad models to make it out of the factory.