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Ahtman wrote:Considering the odds of getting one of each ship you would, and this is being extremely lenient, you would need to buy roughly 72 boosters (and you still wouldn't get one of each if rares are 1 per case). At $3 that is $216, but at $4 that is $288. You still have no guarantee that way of getting them all. If getting one of each is the goal the practical and cost effective way would be to just buy individual ships of ebay, with perhaps a case up front to get a lot of the common and uncommons out of the way, and perhaps get a rare or 2.

A discounted case up front followed by singles is really the way to play CMG's IMO. You get a lot of core ships, certainly some valuable rares, trade bait, and then pick up a few choice singles on ebay. This, along with NOT playing every faction once they expand has made games like War at Sea very affordable for me. I get every penny out of the system, a lot of mileage. I suspect it will be the same with this Tactics, only far cheaper.

Platuan4th wrote:
We've already seen they're more than willing to do such, too, considering how many "What If/Elseworlds" Clix they've done in the past.

Also, pretty much every Star Wars game has done Expanded Universe, is this really any different?

I think it is, to a degree. Star Trek doesn't have as media diverse an expanded universe... Paramount hasn't been as guiding with its control over the Star Trek IP, such that there maybe rights issues with the STO that has to be worked out... while George Lucas, always wants differnet projects to borrow from each other... Most ST expanded universe has relatively relied on holding to prexisting designs and classes. So the sources of the type of expanded universe designs you could draw from are more limited. When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

My point was, I don't think its necessary and I think there are better things they could do. I think they will inevitably get around to it, but I'm hoping its later rather than sooner.

aka_mythos wrote: When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

By whom, may I ask? Fans are still enjoying STO and the books, and both are still allowed and supported by Paramount.

If you actually look at the "new" classes, they're all just slight modifications to other, more established classes, anyway.

Platuan4th wrote:

aka_mythos wrote: When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

By whom, may I ask? Fans are still enjoying STO and the books, and both are still allowed and supported by Paramount.

If you actually look at the "new" classes, they're all just slight modifications to other, more established classes, anyway.

Yes some fans are still enjoying those things, but simply no where near the greater volume of fans the franchise should be attracting. I got into STO with friends and we all bailed on it for not being anything more than a Star Trek veneer on a poor game. Despite having a good number of die-hard trekie friends who read a lot, they don't care for the books either. STO at its peak had 200,000 players, which isn't that great for an MMO and I know more people who read Star Wars expanded universe books than any Star Trek books. Fans are welcome to enjoy those things, but relative even to the greater market those communities of fans are niche compared to the whole.

I'm not saying this games maker shouldn't appeal to those fans, just that I don't think its a necessary compromise so early on and if it is done it should be done sparingly. Seriously, I mean the game hasn't been released and we're already talking about the inclusion of ships that never existed in any form that can be related to the rest of the ships that really appeared in the tv and movie series. More specifically we're talking about making these additions to factions that aren't significant to the franchise and have only a minimal presence. Cardassians are a more major faction than species 8472 and given the games currently limited scope I don't even think they warrant being more than part of the dominion faction.

Could the game makers expand on every last little faction and subfaction in the setting?-Yes. Is it necessary?-No. They need to play out the factions in order of significance in ways that best represent each faction.

Dysartes wrote:

Eumerin wrote:Street Fighter was a gravity feed.

There were a lot more figures than in the other gravity feeds, and it sold out in the blink of an eye (I think my local store sold out exactly one week after it went on sale - and from what I understand, WizKids ended up selling out just from the initial orders). But the sales method for the figures was a gravity feed.

Street Fighter wasn't a gravity feed - or, at least, not the same way that GL, GoW and CA were presented as gravity feeds. The brick was presented in the same way that the poster image for Star Trek displays the boosters. They were still single figure boosters, as opposed to the traditional five figure Heroclix boosters, but they weren't in a gravity feed.

Strangely, I have a completely different recollection of the Street Fighter point of sales box. But it was a few months ago, and I literally only saw it once (since it sold out so quickly), so I can't rule out that my memory's playing tricks on me.

aka_mythos wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

aka_mythos wrote: When the expanded universe of ST has gone into the realm of inventing new classes, those IPs tend to be poorly regarded, like STO.

By whom, may I ask? Fans are still enjoying STO and the books, and both are still allowed and supported by Paramount.

If you actually look at the "new" classes, they're all just slight modifications to other, more established classes, anyway.

Yes some fans are still enjoying those things, but simply no where near the greater volume of fans the franchise should be attracting. I got into STO with friends and we all bailed on it for not being anything more than a Star Trek veneer on a poor game. Despite having a good number of die-hard trekie friends who read a lot, they don't care for the books either. STO at its peak had 200,000 players, which isn't that great for an MMO and I know more people who read Star Wars expanded universe books than any Star Trek books. Fans are welcome to enjoy those things, but relative even to the greater market those communities of fans are niche compared to the whole.

I'm not saying this games maker shouldn't appeal to those fans, just that I don't think its a necessary compromise so early on and if it is done it should be done sparingly. Seriously, I mean the game hasn't been released and we're already talking about the inclusion of ships that never existed in any form that can be related to the rest of the ships that really appeared in the tv and movie series. More specifically we're talking about making these additions to factions that aren't significant to the franchise and have only a minimal presence. Cardassians are a more major faction than species 8472 and given the games currently limited scope I don't even think they warrant being more than part of the dominion faction.

Could the game makers expand on every last little faction and subfaction in the setting?-Yes. Is it necessary?-No. They need to play out the factions in order of significance in ways that best represent each faction.

I think we're arguing 2 different things: you're on about short term, whilst I'm on about long term(2-3 years down the line to keep the game going).

aka_mythos wrote:
Could the game makers expand on every last little faction and subfaction in the setting?-Yes. Is it necessary?-No. They need to play out the factions in order of significance in ways that best represent each faction.

Agreed. They have already captured the significant ships from the Kirk generation movies, now IMO they should go TNG, DS9 & Voyager, Picard era movies, Enterprise (TV show), then and only then onto the video games and secondary/fan stuff.

Wow, the game looks interesting and the models look cool, but does anybody know of an older, more popular game similar to this about star trek?

I remember there was/is one, but can't remember the name

LazzurusMan wrote:Wow, the game looks interesting and the models look cool, but does anybody know of an older, more popular game similar to this about star trek?

I remember there was/is one, but can't remember the name

Do you mean Star Fleet Battles?

Star Fleet Battles
Star Fleet Commander
Star Trek II Combat Simulator
ACTA Star Fleet Battles (coming this month)

Dysartes wrote:

Eumerin wrote:Street Fighter was a gravity feed.

There were a lot more figures than in the other gravity feeds, and it sold out in the blink of an eye (I think my local store sold out exactly one week after it went on sale - and from what I understand, WizKids ended up selling out just from the initial orders). But the sales method for the figures was a gravity feed.

Street Fighter wasn't a gravity feed - or, at least, not the same way that GL, GoW and CA were presented as gravity feeds. The brick was presented in the same way that the poster image for Star Trek displays the boosters. They were still single figure boosters, as opposed to the traditional five figure Heroclix boosters, but they weren't in a gravity feed.

You're both right, a little. The term gravity feed in the heroclix community refers not so much to the actual dropdown (by gravity), it refers to the single random minature per blind booster. Heroclix traditionally sells their minis at random, in sleeves of five minis, with one being notably rarer that the remaining four - these are referred to as booster packs. A set that has both gravity feeds and booster packs (like the Captain America set) you will see that the same miniatures may be represented in both set, however the statistics attached to those in the gravity feeds will not be as good - and they'll have a lower point value per piece. This makes them somewhat less sought after. If you went to a Heroclix forum, like HCRealms, and mentioned Street Fighter gravity feeds, you wouldn't be getting corrected.

The Street fighter set was a little different from their other gravity feed sets and I believe a alot of lines could be drawn from ST to SF in terms of the set makeup in terms of rarities. The SF set was 27 booster figs, 23 and 4 "b versions" of the initial 23 that served as "Chase Rares" (because HC has different levels of rarities, Chase being about 1 in 24 from the SF set) and additional 6 figured from the fixed starter set. Out of the first 23 random booster figures the first 10 were common, the next 8 were uncommon, then 3 Rare, and 2 Super Rares, and let us not forget the 4b version Chase figures. Lol, yes Rare, Super Rare, Chase Rare wrap your head around that. And some times the only difference between two of the same named figure (miniature wise) is a different paintjob and a different combat dial. Going back to the top of this paragraph one of the reasons that the SFGravFeed was different was because the size of the set (27 random figs) allowed for different rarities to be implemented, where prior GF displays did not have these.

Anyways because of the simialiar size in the release of the Star Trek License I predict what I've previously written will hold true. Pretty much you go out and buy your fill at your FLGS or DIGS and hit ebay to mop the ships you're missing.

LazzurusMan wrote:Wow, the game looks interesting and the models look cool, but does anybody know of an older, more popular game similar to this about star trek?

I remember there was/is one, but can't remember the name

The one your likely thinking of was StarFleet Battles. However, similar isnt the proper word, not even close. It was light years different. Clix games are meant to be relatively simple, easy to learn, and quick playing. SFB is hugely complex, and very slow playing. It was quite detailed though. There was a later version that simplified it a bit...but it was still far to complex and slow for most people.

Mad4Minis wrote: It was light years different.

Zing!

VermGho5t wrote:Oh hell yes, I am so all over this!

Q'pla HeroClix!

Unfortunately, I would guess that your comment is about 1000 times better than this game will ever be.

I just can't see a collectible TNG-based game spelling anything but disaster. I don't even hate Star Trek (I actually mildly like TNG, even other than Season 4) but I am getting a "cursed franchise" vibe off of this of Nemesis proportions. Someone mentioned the 90s micromachines earlier in this thread and every time I revisit some of these pics I can't help but think that my old micromachines looked better.

Just my opinion -- props&power to those who want this.

Manchu wrote:

VermGho5t wrote:Oh hell yes, I am so all over this!

Q'pla HeroClix!

Unfortunately, I would guess that your comment is about 1000 times better than this game will ever be.

I just can't see a collectible TNG-based game spelling anything but disaster. I don't even hate Star Trek (I actually mildly like TNG, even other than Season 4) but I am getting a "cursed franchise" vibe off of this of Nemesis proportions. Someone mentioned the 90s micromachines earlier in this thread and every time I revisit some of these pics I can't help but think that my old micromachines looked better.

Just my opinion -- props&power to those who want this.

This games gonna sell out fast.

1. It's got an easy to follow, proven rule set, that's actually pretty good for what it is.
2. Fast set up, tear down, and army build.
3. Play time from start to finish can be really fast because of 1. and 2. allowing you to get more games in per night, trying out different combos.
4. Because this isn't even a game (it's an expansion) you can do freaky games with existing HC minis (covering that niche that will).
5. Clix has already got its own player base where demand is established. Add the Trekkies who'll buy in.

Although I think it would be stupid to do so WizKids could use this license once, never revisit it and have nothing but fond memories of the sales. I cannot stress how easy it is to set up and play a game like this, and how fun it is. I don't imagine a Clix tourney being in the same league as a 40k tourney by any way, shape or form, but that being said it's still pretty fun. I am curious about how often they'd revisit the Star Trek license, but they'll pretty much have the core ships with the very first set.

Manchu, I don't see this being the end all in Star Trek fleet battle games, not by any means. In that I believe you are correct. But this expansion will be a fun stop gap.

Actually SW-licences are way cheaper than most people think...

I remember hearing that the license for the all those SW miniature game collectively was ~$1.2M/yr +% of profit. On their best year they made double that and they discontinued when they started to only break even.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MightyGodzilla wrote:
This games gonna sell out fast.
...
Although I think it would be stupid to do so WizKids could use this license once, never revisit it and have nothing but fond memories of the sales. I cannot stress how easy it is to set up and play a game like this, and how fun it is. I don't imagine a Clix tourney being in the same league as a 40k tourney by any way, shape or form, but that being said it's still pretty fun. I am curious about how often they'd revisit the Star Trek license, but they'll pretty much have the core ships with the very first set.

I think they will sell out, but that its going to be driven as much by Star Trek collectors as it is by Trekies interested in the game. So sell out at first, but where the second wave of availibility of the core set will probably be disappointing on Wizkids end. I think they'll do very well, but only half so because of the rules.

Like every Heroclix game that's preceeded it, if they revisit this game they will use expansions to add variants to ships that exist in preceeding sets. If past Heroclix are precedent in regurgitating core characters... every variation of the names will be used... i.e.: USS Enterprise -D, Enterprise D, Galaxy Class: Enterprise, Battle damaged Enterprise D, Enterprise D Drive Section, Enterprise D Saucer Section, NCC 1701-D, Future Enterprise... etc.

aka_mythos wrote:Future Enterprise

Galaxy Class Dreadnought with the megaphaser...yes please. That would just put it over the top. Im already excited enough that they have included the Nebula Class in the first set, thats one of my favorite TNG Fed ships.

Mad4Minis wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Future Enterprise

Galaxy Class Dreadnought with the megaphaser...yes please. That would just put it over the top. Im already excited enough that they have included the Nebula Class in the first set, thats one of my favorite TNG Fed ships.

All the major factions have been shown with "Dreadnought" like ship... that might as well be the Federation's. Romulans would have the Valdore, the Klingons would have the Fek'lar, Dominion those ships that were acutally called "Dominion Dreadnoughts".

It will be interesting to see what sort of special abilities are given to the non-warships like the Nebula and Oberth to compensate to some small degree for the lack of fire power. Two ships with larger than standard sensor equipment... how will that play out.

So far from what I have seen and read the Star Trek set will not be compatible with the "Standard" Heroclix set. It would make no sense to have *Insert favorite Hero or Villain here* go up against the USS Enterprise. I can see them using the "Clix system" for the game and setting everything up based off of the Heroclix setup but I don't see the ship's being crossed over to the standard tournament set-up.

hpred wrote:So far from what I have seen and read the Star Trek set will not be compatible with the "Standard" Heroclix set. It would make no sense to have *Insert favorite Hero or Villain here* go up against the USS Enterprise. I can see them using the "Clix system" for the game and setting everything up based off of the Heroclix setup but I don't see the ship's being crossed over to the standard tournament set-up.

It is made to use the exact Clix rules...IE the powers, abilities, colors, etc on the dial mean the same thing...but no they arent meant to fight against Spiderman, Batman, etc. Basically its a case of "same rules, different universe".

Mad4Minis wrote:

hpred wrote:So far from what I have seen and read the Star Trek set will not be compatible with the "Standard" Heroclix set. It would make no sense to have *Insert favorite Hero or Villain here* go up against the USS Enterprise. I can see them using the "Clix system" for the game and setting everything up based off of the Heroclix setup but I don't see the ship's being crossed over to the standard tournament set-up.

It is made to use the exact Clix rules...IE the powers, abilities, colors, etc on the dial mean the same thing...but no they arent meant to fight against Spiderman, Batman, etc. Basically its a case of "same rules, different universe".

That was the impression I got when I saw it listed as Heroclix Tactics - however, if they get other licenses for space fleet style games (such as Babylon 5, for instance), then they could be mixed.

aka_mythos wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Future Enterprise

Galaxy Class Dreadnought with the megaphaser...yes please. That would just put it over the top. Im already excited enough that they have included the Nebula Class in the first set, thats one of my favorite TNG Fed ships.

All the major factions have been shown with "Dreadnought" like ship... that might as well be the Federation's. Romulans would have the Valdore, the Klingons would have the Fek'lar, Dominion those ships that were acutally called "Dominion Dreadnoughts".

It will be interesting to see what sort of special abilities are given to the non-warships like the Nebula and Oberth to compensate to some small degree for the lack of fire power. Two ships with larger than standard sensor equipment... how will that play out.

The Fek'lar is an older dreadnought, think SFB era. The Neghvar is the closest thing they have in TNG, though Ive seen it referred to as a Battleship more than a dread. The Valdore also isnt a Dread, its a Warbird class vessel...essentially a replacement for the D'Deridex class commonly seen in TNG series shows. The Valdore is somewhat smaller...around 903 meters as opposed to almost 1500 meters for the D'Deridex.

The episode "All good things" (featuring the Galaxy Dread) is one of the few uses of a true Dreadnought in TNG, most of them are from the SFB universe/era.

It should be noted I am not including anything from the video games, as they are not canon...closer to Fan Fic IMO.

Only the ships and schematics from the Star Trek II Starship Combat simulator are canon for any Star Trek. Ever.

Ahtman wrote:Only the ships and schematics from the Star Trek II Starship Combat simulator are canon for any Star Trek. Ever.

I can somewhat agree...if your referring to tabletop games that dont use ships featured in the TV and movie series. . Someones bound to mention SFB but thats based off of the cartoon series, which isnt canon. Anything show in the live action movies and TV shows is obviously canon.

I don't know that much about the classes myself but that recent video game they had taught me Sovereigns kick-ass.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I don't know that much about the classes myself but that recent video game they had taught me Sovereigns kick-ass.

Well, there is a generous amount of "hero factor" going there. The last Enterprise is/was a Sovereign, so it gets a bit of extra. Kind of the way the Galaxy Class always seemed to throw down quite well in TNG, considering the fact its classed as an Exploration Cruiser, and is somewhat poorly armed for its size. That being said, the Sovs are a huge improvement combat wise from the Galaxy.

Heres a breakdown:

Soveriegn:

12 Type XII Phaser banks
1 quantum torpedo tube
4 Photon Torpedo tubes


Galaxy:

12 Type X Phaser Banks
2 Photon Torpedo Tubes

Well I think all federation ships are exploration/science vessels. The defiant is one of their only dedicated warships.

Mad4Minis wrote:
The Fek'lar is an older dreadnought, think SFB era. The Neghvar is the closest thing they have in TNG, though Ive seen it referred to as a Battleship more than a dread. The Valdore also isnt a Dread, its a Warbird class vessel...essentially a replacement for the D'Deridex class commonly seen in TNG series shows. The Valdore is somewhat smaller...around 903 meters as opposed to almost 1500 meters for the D'Deridex.

The episode "All good things" (featuring the Galaxy Dread) is one of the few uses of a true Dreadnought in TNG, most of them are from the SFB universe/era.

It should be noted I am not including anything from the video games, as they are not canon...closer to Fan Fic IMO.

The Fek'lhr and the Chang are the off screen names of the two big Klingon ship that appear in the "future" era of "All good things..." those were what I was refering to.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/IKC_Fek'lhr_(Voodieh_class)

The model for the Fek'lhr in "All Good Things..." was reused, I believe with modifications, as the Negh'var. The Negh'var is supposed to be the Klingon equivalent to a Galaxy Class so a future Negh'var in the form of the Fek'lhr seems about right.

The Valdore isn't as large as a "dreadnought"... but its supposed to have been built in response to Negh'var and Sovereign class ships. I'd say its more even with a Sovereign class ship, but the Sovereign and Galaxy class ships' armaments aren't so different. Both Sovereign and Valdore classes have less extra space and equipment than the Galaxy and Negh'var, but are armed similarly.

This game has the advantage of being able to draw from the "future" timeline or the actual future as later series and movies showed it. On one hand you have Valdore, Sovereign, and Negh'Var and on the other the Future Enterprise, future Fek'lhr, and and probably a hypothetical future Valdore or something like it. Given the more free form nature of Heroclix, they'll probably have both sets.

...Random thought for ship variants, but I think it'd be appropriate for their to be both a Voyager and a Voyager with borg tech. Also the Nova class is also shown in Voyager with a "future" refit... when Captain LaForge has his cameo.

Wonder if we'll see the Peregrine and other fighters thanks to the Dominion War episodes.