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Most likely they'd figure out the ones that are shooting at them are probably CSM

Kaldor wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Except every citizen, without exception, is TERRIFIED of the rosette

Cite.

From the FFG Dark Heresy rulebook (pg.266);

"Come in acid-storm they did, with the rain and lightning licking the spireport as they landed. They cut the power to the big estate-habs. Whole half the hive went dark with it, and by the time they got it running again and stopped the riots and scraped up the dead, it were too late. Five noble houses gone - and they never did say why neither. I venture I could make a guess or two though - the things you see when you're cleaning viewports..."
Phormbis, Hive Tranch Windowjack

"Mutants are bad, and what's worse is what comes in their wake. Listen up, stubberscum, if you spy something strange with your platoon mates, report it! Otherwise the Inquisition will be through here like the worst dose of gutflush you ever swallowed, giving each and every one of you a Commissar's welcome - the last and loudest noise you'll ever hear!"
Arms-Sergeant Heikon Thrass, Mortressen 103rd.

"'Quisitors? Hush now, we don't even speak of 'em. You names 'em, you call 'em an' that's the last thing yer want. They'll 'ave an excruciater up yer fundament afore yer can scream 'Throne blind me!'"
Agri-hand Jaspus Sawney

Everyone knows of the Inquisition and what's more everyone knows to obey and fear an Inquisitor. Obedience runs deep within the Imperium as it's citizens have little free will. They can not question the teachings of the Ecclesiarchy, they work at the job/in the role they are given each day and everyday without question or thought of doing anything else unless told to. As the Inquisition rulebook says, page 96, "Inquisitors are legendary across the civilised worlds of the Imperium, a combination of saints who inspire and horrors used to scare children into obedience." So when an Inquisitor says to the Captain in your example "I need your ship" the Captain immediately says "Yes sir, what course sir? Please feel free to use my quarters as they're the most comfortable."

Out of pure, deep-seated fear, nobody crosses the Inquisition.

Kaldor wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote: Also, most inquisitors are amazing in combat, to the point of stacking up to space marine sergeant, with a huge number of them being power/terminator armored beta+ psykers, plus they without exception have warbands that can wipe out tactical squads without too much trouble.

Cite.

Also, some jobs cannot be achieved through force or intimidation.

Inquisitors in the Inquisitor rulebook have -very high- statlines, equal of Marines in everything except in terms of strength & toughness and in some areas excel past Astartes. They have access to any equipment they want, any at all. Therefore their kill-teams can be equipped with lots of plasma & melta weapons, have the best carapace armour available, have refractor & conversion fields and more esoteric gear, such as xenos weapons, needle weapons. Some of their kill-team members may even have advanced bionic implants or limbs, boosting their already considerable skills to higher levels.

Then there is the fact that many Inquisitors are psykers and would be able to blast apart squads of Astartes with their psychic talents - they can render their weapons useless, throw them around, set them on fire, force the Astartes to obey them, make them feeble, choke them, boil their blood or even go with good old fashioned lightning. And that's just a few examples.

Kaldor wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Except every citizen, without exception, is TERRIFIED of the rosette

Cite.

Also, most inquisitors are amazing in combat, to the point of stacking up to space marine sergeant, with a huge number of them being power/terminator armored beta+ psykers, plus they without exception have warbands that can wipe out tactical squads without too much trouble.

Cite.

Also, some jobs cannot be achieved through force or intimidation.

1. The high lords of terra can only refuse the order of an inquisitor if they have good reason. Everyone is terrified of this. If you insist on an explicit quote, I will get you one.

2. Well inquisitor Hector Rex banished An'ggrath the unbound in personal combat, and An'ggrath is the most powerful demon of the Blood God, and likely the most powerful daemon period, given the fact that Khorne is the most powerful CG at the moment. For other examples of combat-capable inquisitors, see: Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Coteaz, Karamazov, Kryptman etc.

Also see: Inquisitor RPG from GW, http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1160114a.

Whilst power armour is most commonly associated with the Adeptus Astartes, the Sisters of Battle and many Inquisitors also use powered armour of one sort or another. Typically however these armours may not contain the same strength enhancing properties or life-support functions of Space Marine power armour nor do they provide the same amount of protection.

Kaldor wrote:I think a bigger issue is the self-imposed secrecy of the Inquisition. How are you supposed to get anything done if you have to spend all day getting menial servants to believe you are who you say you are, and you really do carry the authority you say you do.

You can imagine the scenario, an Inquisitor in hot pursuit of his quarry charges into an Imperial docking facility and attempts to comandeer a vessel.

The captain says 'You and whose army?'

Inquisitor shows him his seal.

'Well, thats really pretty' says the captain. 'After I beat you for your insolence I might just take it and give it my daughter.'

So the Inquisitor is faced with the problem of either physically fighting his way to the bridge and violently seizing control of his desired target, or calling his superior, to ask him to get in touch with the captains superior, to relay the orders that yes, he is in fact allowed to take the ship.

Meanwhile, the target has escaped...

...and the Inquisitor has the captain, the captain's immediate superiors, the captain's and his superiors' friends, family, PTA, and pet dogs all tortured to death under suspicion of heresy, for the crime of impeding an Inquisitor in his duties, and as a lesson that you GODDAMN WELL DO WHAT THE MAN WITH THE ROSETTE SAYS.

Arturius wrote:

Kaldor wrote:I think a bigger issue is the self-imposed secrecy of the Inquisition. How are you supposed to get anything done if you have to spend all day getting menial servants to believe you are who you say you are, and you really do carry the authority you say you do.

You can imagine the scenario, an Inquisitor in hot pursuit of his quarry charges into an Imperial docking facility and attempts to comandeer a vessel.

The captain says 'You and whose army?'

Inquisitor shows him his seal.

'Well, thats really pretty' says the captain. 'After I beat you for your insolence I might just take it and give it my daughter.'

So the Inquisitor is faced with the problem of either physically fighting his way to the bridge and violently seizing control of his desired target, or calling his superior, to ask him to get in touch with the captains superior, to relay the orders that yes, he is in fact allowed to take the ship.

Meanwhile, the target has escaped...

...and the Inquisitor has the captain, the captain's immediate superiors, the captain's and his superiors' friends, family, PTA, and pet dogs all tortured to death under suspicion of heresy, for the crime of impeding an Inquisitor in his duties, and as a lesson that you GODDAMN WELL DO WHAT THE MAN WITH THE ROSETTE SAYS.

And his mailman, and that guy from his 3rd grade math class and his planet...

im2randomghgh wrote:1. The high lords of terra can only refuse the order of an inquisitor if they have good reason. Everyone is terrified of this. If you insist on an explicit quote, I will get you one.

That would be nice, but what I'm really after is a quote that says that EVERY citizen of the Imperium, from Chapter Masters, to High Lords, to stone-age ferals is TERRIFIED of a rosette.

2. Well inquisitor Hector Rex banished An'ggrath the unbound in personal combat, and An'ggrath is the most powerful demon of the Blood God, and likely the most powerful daemon period, given the fact that Khorne is the most powerful CG at the moment. For other examples of combat-capable inquisitors, see: Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Coteaz, Karamazov, Kryptman etc.

Thats really neat. Now cite to me a source stating that all Inquisitors are of equal combat prowess to an Astartes sergeant. Remembering the standards set out by you in the Spartans vs Astartes thread ;-) Then explain to me how that combat prowess will be useful in a bureaucratic jurisdiction dispute.

Really, one of the defining traits of the administration of the Imperium is its unweildiness and clumsiness. How does a ships captain know that the man before him is really an inquisitor? That his inquisitorial seal is legitimate and not a fake? Does he simply surrender his ship without question, or double check the authenticity of it first? Has he ever seen a REAL inquisitorial seal before? Would he recognise one? And do any of those answers apply carte blanche across all citizens of the Imperium?

No. Of course not. And of course, leaving issues of counterfeiting, impersonation and chains of command aside, there are issues whith legitimate jurisdiction concerns as well. The treaty of Mars would make it a tricky prospect for an Inquisitor to commandeer Admech resources.

It's one of the things that I think makes the 40K galaxy interesting: Over such a large community, the only symbols that would be universally recognisable would be simple, striking ones. And simple, striking symbols are easily duplicated.

Really, one of the defining traits of the administration of the Imperium is its unweildiness and clumsiness. How does a ships captain know that the man before him is really an inquisitor? That his inquisitorial seal is legitimate and not a fake? Does he simply surrender his ship without question, or double check the authenticity of it first?

The seals are usually presented as having technological components with things like identification included.

A ship's captain might be hesitant to give up command unconditionally. He should know, though, that Imperial policy means that stonewalling an Inquisitor results in a death that is not short, painless, or uncertain.

i think it would be more easy to tell csm because of their suit. the figures have different backpacks style armor than regular sm, so wouldn't that make it easy to tell the difference

Langston128 wrote:i think it would be more easy to tell csm because of their suit. the figures have different backpacks style armor than regular sm, so wouldn't that make it easy to tell the difference

That would imply a significant familiarity with both styles. I'm betting most Imperial citizens have never seen an actual Marine, and most of the imagery of Marines is probably way off.

Him/her would tell the difference when the trator marine opened up on him/her with a boltgun

Thats really neat. Now cite to me a source stating that all Inquisitors are of equal combat prowess to an Astartes sergeant. Remembering the standards set out by you in the Spartans vs Astartes thread ;-) Then explain to me how that combat prowess will be useful in a bureaucratic jurisdiction dispute.

Well for one thing most inquisitors are psykers which is pretty decisive in and of itself, for another most of them wear power armour, for another I listed just about every named inquisitor, and if you do some research you'll see that just about all of them are fierce warriors. And then you have the inquisitor from Savage Scars who tossed Veteran Sergeant Sarik around like a plaything with his immense psychic power...

No. Of course not. And of course, leaving issues of counterfeiting, impersonation and chains of command aside, there are issues whith legitimate jurisdiction concerns as well. The treaty of Mars would make it a tricky prospect for an Inquisitor to commandeer Admech resources.

Actually, the treaty of mars holds no weight next to the inquisition. I can't remember which book, but one BL book went into great detail on this.

Dark Heresy Rulebook wrote:If required, Inquisitors may call on the service and/or resources of any Imperial servant or organisation. Not even a High Lord of Terra may refuse the order of an Inquisitor without good reason. This power extends across the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus, however learned Inquisitors show discretion and request the assistance of the Space Marines and attempt not to anger the Adepts of Mars.

Lexicanum wrote:No one, except the Emperor himself, is beyond the scrutiny of the Inquisition. This power is officially known as the Inquisitorial Remit or Inquisitorial Mandate.

And counterfeiting doesn't work because Rosette's are keyed to their proprieter's DNA. Also, them wearing power armour, being psykers and having warbands is a dead giveaway.

Pomyboy wrote:Him/her would tell the difference when the trator marine opened up on him/her with a boltgun

Which means they're traitors. Or your governor is rebelling. Or someone's put your entire neighborhood on a 'purge' list for reasons you'll never know or be able to ask. Or you're in a war zone and the Asartes are shooting anything they find. Or they're psychotic Flesh Tearers or Blood Knights, or Death Company...

Imperial citizens have no idea about traitor legion heraldry / names / history. To them the Horus Heresy is literally mythology.

During the seige of Valks when the Alpha Legion landed at a loyal starport to go join the traitor held fortress. No one had any idea who they were.
Even after they joined the traitors and started killing them they didn't suspect they could be legionaries ten thousand years old.
Segmentum command had to send astropathic messages all over the sector to try and find out chapters were currently deployed in the sector and what colours their armour was.
There is no google in the 41st mellenium.

So yeah I hate it when in some crappy story a guardsmen goes, "Look out sir! The Word Bearers are here!!. Oh no!! The Thousand Sons just rocked up too!!! araghagh!!"

Kaldor wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. The high lords of terra can only refuse the order of an inquisitor if they have good reason. Everyone is terrified of this. If you insist on an explicit quote, I will get you one.

That would be nice, but what I'm really after is a quote that says that EVERY citizen of the Imperium, from Chapter Masters, to High Lords, to stone-age ferals is TERRIFIED of a rosette.

2. Well inquisitor Hector Rex banished An'ggrath the unbound in personal combat, and An'ggrath is the most powerful demon of the Blood God, and likely the most powerful daemon period, given the fact that Khorne is the most powerful CG at the moment. For other examples of combat-capable inquisitors, see: Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Coteaz, Karamazov, Kryptman etc.

Thats really neat. Now cite to me a source stating that all Inquisitors are of equal combat prowess to an Astartes sergeant. Remembering the standards set out by you in the Spartans vs Astartes thread ;-) Then explain to me how that combat prowess will be useful in a bureaucratic jurisdiction dispute.

Really, one of the defining traits of the administration of the Imperium is its unweildiness and clumsiness. How does a ships captain know that the man before him is really an inquisitor? That his inquisitorial seal is legitimate and not a fake? Does he simply surrender his ship without question, or double check the authenticity of it first? Has he ever seen a REAL inquisitorial seal before? Would he recognise one? And do any of those answers apply carte blanche across all citizens of the Imperium?

No. Of course not. And of course, leaving issues of counterfeiting, impersonation and chains of command aside, there are issues whith legitimate jurisdiction concerns as well. The treaty of Mars would make it a tricky prospect for an Inquisitor to commandeer Admech resources.

It's one of the things that I think makes the 40K galaxy interesting: Over such a large community, the only symbols that would be universally recognisable would be simple, striking ones. And simple, striking symbols are easily duplicated.

I agree with you that not all inquisitors are as powerful as they claim. Even having read Eisenhorn, he is no where near as talented as a Space Marine in combat. A sergeant in the Astartes is a genetically engineered machine of death with centuries of combat under his belt. There are Inquisitors with that combat ability but not many as you would say. The ones we know about are because they were so amazing. You don't want to read about the millions of other Inquisitors that have the same ability as an Imperial Guard sergeant. Plot armor is pretty amazing indeed.

The Inquisition is known to most of the Imperium because they themselves are not a secret organization. Their practice may be, but everyone knew the Spanish Inquisition existed back in the day. The fact that there are legions of traitor marines is a secret that is kept from the public however.

Citizens of the Imperium have the right to be weary of Inquisitors and people impersonating them. However, the fear of the wrath from an Inquisitor is more than enough to make most citizens comply without voiced objections, but just incase, legit rosettes have an integrated data interface that carries all the proper codes and authorizations they need to prove their legitimacy.

Bongfu wrote: Citizens of the Imperium have the right to be weary of Inquisitors and people impersonating them. However, the fear of the wrath from an Inquisitor is more than enough to make most citizens comply without voiced objections, but just incase, legit rosettes have an integrated data interface that carries all the proper codes and authorizations they need to prove their legitimacy.

Ah, that makes more sense. Plug it into a sufficiently powerful Machine Spirit, or have an Astropath verify the details with someone. Still leaves the potential for fakes and stolen IDs though. I like it, plenty of room for intrigue and backstabbing!