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Miraclefish wrote:"My Lord, I bring news." (Taken from 40konline.com, not sure of the actual origin)...

I thought it sounded more like Monty Python, myself.

ElectricPaladin wrote:You know, Grimdarkness aside, not all Space Marines chapters like to gun down civilians "just in case." A few of them, sure - Black Templars, Flesh Tearers or even ordinary Blood Angels if too many of them lose it, Space Wolves when they're drunk - but lots of them try to be genuinely heroic. Ultramarines, Blood Angels when they don't go crazy, and Space Wolves when they're sober, for example.

Heck, Some have even been shown to go out of their way to save civilians. Like Shrike in "Hunt For Voldorious" where he

Or the salamanders in the third war for armageddon. Where they would go one rescue missions to save civilians.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Durza wrote:Certainly the sane ones could. None of the mono-god legions could though. They're all either insane, diseased or automatons.

You covered Khorne, Nurgle & Tzeentch there, but not Slaanesh. Emperor's Children could, potentially, pass as loyalists - first of all, their name; Considering Imperial citizens know only about their God-Emperor through the Ecclesiarchy, having the 'Emperor's Children' turn up sounds rather good, does it not? However, EC would probably try and jolly the populace along to start enjoying each and every sensation to newer and greater heights or to strive towards absolute perfection in everything. I do love Slaanesh.

The EC are just as crazy, if not more so, as the WE. Sure, it might sound good to hear an announcement that the Emperor's Children are arriving from a few light years away, but once the screams of excess start to flood the broadcasts, the citizens are going to figure out pretty quickly that they do not want to attend the planned concert.

I think a good few of the undivided legions could pull off acting like loyalists if they kept calm and didn't go crazy. (NONE of the followers of the 4 chaos gods could pull it off though i think)

Durza wrote:Sure, it might sound good to hear an announcement that the Emperor's Children are arriving from a few light years away, but once the screams of excess start to flood the broadcasts, the citizens are going to figure out pretty quickly that they do not want to attend the planned concert.

They could keep the Comms closed and make up for that after their invasion by projecting their ecstatic cries as they enjoy each sensation right across the Segmenta.

However I don't think the populace would really have a choice about attending 'the planned concert'. Attendance would, I imagine, be compulsory.

The few facts of life of the Imperium lead me to believe that most of the traitor Legions could go unnoticed as any different from the legendary Astartes they are told about.

1) Imperial citizens are dominated by the Ecclesiarchy. Knowledge of Chaos is strictly forbidden and suppressed. Knowledge of traitor marines is not likely to be given to your average priest or clergyman.

2) All Space Marines would be fantastical to behold. Reading some of the Horus Heresy and other books with Space Marines in it (Eisenhorn series is a good one) it shows that even higher up Imperial citizens would have trouble understanding that there are two sides.

3) I will say it again... The knowledge of the Horus Heresy is very tightly controlled.

CuddlySquig wrote:A baby with no concept of life could tell a traitor marine from a regular marine.

Traitor: *all decked out in spikes* HHAHAHAHAHAA!! SANITY IS FOR THE WEAK!!!!!
Loyal: *candy-coloured and noble* Purge the enemies of man
Citizen: *looking between them and scratching his chin* Hmmmm....

Not quite. To the general populace they don't act much differently.

Its simple. Chaos marines have less skulls on their armor.

They could tell the difference. If you look at a Chaos Marine you'll cut yourself what with all those spikes..

Well if you think about it rouge inquisitors do (grey knights omnibus) so why not csm

nurglerulesslaneshdrools wrote:Well if you think about it rouge inquisitors do (grey knights omnibus) so why not csm

Rouge? Oh god, red, french inquisitors!!!

im2randomghgh wrote:

nurglerulesslaneshdrools wrote:Well if you think about it rouge inquisitors do (grey knights omnibus) so why not csm

Rouge? Oh god, red, french inquisitors!!!

You don't frighten us, Chaos pig-dogs! ... I blow my nose at you, so-called Ah-bahdon Derspoiler, you and all your silly Chaos K-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-niggits!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fD2157yrY0#t=01m02s

Maybe that big old Chaos symbol on his chest gives them away. Also i would picture a chaos marine to have a very evil aura that would affect people.

Lynata wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fD2157yrY0#t=01m02s

Ah, mais c'est asset drôle ça! Ou est-ce que tu l'as trouvé?

Supreme Kai wrote:Maybe that big old Chaos symbol on his chest gives them away. Also i would picture a chaos marine to have a very evil aura that would affect people.

Way to not bother even reading a 3 page thread.

Once again, Imperial citizens aren't aware chaos is even a thing, let alone what their symbols are, or that there are traitor marines, or that some traitor marines follow chaos.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Supreme Kai wrote:Maybe that big old Chaos symbol on his chest gives them away. Also i would picture a chaos marine to have a very evil aura that would affect people.

Way to not bother even reading a 3 page thread.

Once again, Imperial citizens aren't aware chaos is even a thing, let alone what their symbols are, or that there are traitor marines, or that some traitor marines follow chaos.

Though many books do make the point that the symbols of Chaos make people sick or drive them insane. So if you start feeling crazy when you're looking at the symbols on a marine, they're probably Chaos. Or Ultramarines, judging by some reactions...

Durza wrote:
Though many books do make the point that the symbols of Chaos make people sick or drive them insane. So if you start feeling crazy when you're looking at the symbols on a marine, they're probably Chaos.

They can't deduce that it's Chaos.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Durza wrote:
Though many books do make the point that the symbols of Chaos make people sick or drive them insane. So if you start feeling crazy when you're looking at the symbols on a marine, they're probably Chaos.

They can't deduce that it's Chaos.

yeah, for all they know its the awsomeness of demi-gods rubbing off on them.

Grey Templar wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Durza wrote:
Though many books do make the point that the symbols of Chaos make people sick or drive them insane. So if you start feeling crazy when you're looking at the symbols on a marine, they're probably Chaos.

They can't deduce that it's Chaos.

yeah, for all they know its the awsomeness of demi-gods rubbing off on them.

Not to mention the average citizen would probably already have an overwhelming urge to take a knee and avert their eyes in the presence of one of the Emperor's Angels of Death, because, you know, they're Angels of Death.

As was mentioned multiple times, the Night Lords novel Lord of the Night has this very topic as a central plot component. Incredibly devout followers of the Emperor are easily convinced that the Night Lord in question is a loyal Astartes, and are completely awestruck and worshipful in his presence.

All I have to say is, this must make the Alpha Legion's job really easy.

The Fallen have in one of the books, they are chasing a fallen warband around, and end up losing thier gene stock and releasing a virus bomb in their sealed fortress monastary, forcig the space marines to either exterminatus the entire world or die a slow death of dehydration and hunger.

In Titanicus, when the militia men see the chaos symbols they puke.

Johnnyboy955 wrote:The Fallen have in one of the books, they are chasing a fallen warband around, and end up losing thier gene stock and releasing a virus bomb in their sealed fortress monastary, forcig the space marines to either exterminatus the entire world or die a slow death of dehydration and hunger.

I am sorry, but how is this relevant?
I think you may be responding to the wrong topic.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Johnnyboy955 wrote:The Fallen have in one of the books, they are chasing a fallen warband around, and end up losing thier gene stock and releasing a virus bomb in their sealed fortress monastary, forcig the space marines to either exterminatus the entire world or die a slow death of dehydration and hunger.

I am sorry, but how is this relevant?
I think you may be responding to the wrong topic.

No, he just didn't give enough Information.


Its called Angels of Darkness.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Supreme Kai wrote:Maybe that big old Chaos symbol on his chest gives them away. Also i would picture a chaos marine to have a very evil aura that would affect people.

Way to not bother even reading a 3 page thread.

Once again, Imperial citizens aren't aware chaos is even a thing, let alone what their symbols are, or that there are traitor marines, or that some traitor marines follow chaos.

Well sources tend to contradict each other here. In Scourge the Heretic, a pair of PDF troopers were having a conversation and just treated it as a taboo subject, the same way the primarchs seemed to consider the missing legions a unapproachable subject.

Most Imperial citizens have never seen the SM only know of them from story's and legends so I think while most citizen are awe struck at first seeing SM they are afraid of hem as well. CSM that have mutations or dismembered body parts hanging off their armour will quickly be identified as heretic and dispatched with the wrath of the Imperium.

st2me wrote:Most Imperial citizens have never seen the SM only know of them from story's and legends so I think while most citizen are awe struck at first seeing SM they are afraid of hem as well. CSM that have mutations or dismembered body parts hanging off their armour will quickly be identified as heretic and dispatched with the wrath of the Imperium.

Well the Black Dragons are loyalist and have severe physical mutation, and so are the Soul Drinkers, though for a completely different reason.

I think a bigger issue is the self-imposed secrecy of the Inquisition. How are you supposed to get anything done if you have to spend all day getting menial servants to believe you are who you say you are, and you really do carry the authority you say you do.

You can imagine the scenario, an Inquisitor in hot pursuit of his quarry charges into an Imperial docking facility and attempts to comandeer a vessel.

The captain says 'You and whose army?'

Inquisitor shows him his seal.

'Well, thats really pretty' says the captain. 'After I beat you for your insolence I might just take it and give it my daughter.'

So the Inquisitor is faced with the problem of either physically fighting his way to the bridge and violently seizing control of his desired target, or calling his superior, to ask him to get in touch with the captains superior, to relay the orders that yes, he is in fact allowed to take the ship.

Meanwhile, the target has escaped...

Kaldor wrote:I think a bigger issue is the self-imposed secrecy of the Inquisition. How are you supposed to get anything done if you have to spend all day getting menial servants to believe you are who you say you are, and you really do carry the authority you say you do.

You can imagine the scenario, an Inquisitor in hot pursuit of his quarry charges into an Imperial docking facility and attempts to comandeer a vessel.

The captain says 'You and whose army?'

Inquisitor shows him his seal.

'Well, thats really pretty' says the captain. 'After I beat you for your insolence I might just take it and give it my daughter.'

So the Inquisitor is faced with the problem of either physically fighting his way to the bridge and violently seizing control of his desired target, or calling his superior, to ask him to get in touch with the captains superior, to relay the orders that yes, he is in fact allowed to take the ship.

Meanwhile, the target has escaped...

Except every citizen, without exception, is TERRIFIED of the rosette. In brother of the snake, a noble woman refused to obey a space marine, and actually attacked him with digital weapons, but the sight of the rosette made her faint.

Also, most inquisitors are amazing in combat, to the point of stacking up to space marine sergeant, with a huge number of them being power/terminator armored beta+ psykers, plus they without exception have warbands that can wipe out tactical squads without too much trouble.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Except every citizen, without exception, is TERRIFIED of the rosette

Cite.

Also, most inquisitors are amazing in combat, to the point of stacking up to space marine sergeant, with a huge number of them being power/terminator armored beta+ psykers, plus they without exception have warbands that can wipe out tactical squads without too much trouble.

Cite.

Also, some jobs cannot be achieved through force or intimidation.

Grey Templar wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Johnnyboy955 wrote:The Fallen have in one of the books, they are chasing a fallen warband around, and end up losing thier gene stock and releasing a virus bomb in their sealed fortress monastary, forcig the space marines to either exterminatus the entire world or die a slow death of dehydration and hunger.

I am sorry, but how is this relevant?
I think you may be responding to the wrong topic.

No, he just didn't give enough Information.


Its called Angels of Darkness.

Spoiler:

In the book, a DA Chaplain and a squad of marines are occuping a Fortress of the chapter and training initiates. There is extreme unrest on the planet for some reason and eventually he discovers some Fallen have a base on a moon in the system. He is then forced to induct the squad of marines into the Deathwing and go take out the Fallen. They get there and they are all gone. When they get back they find the planet rebelling against them and are forced to fight their way to the Fortress, they get there and some Fallen have slaughtered the Initiates and stolen the Geneseed and basically told the populace that the Marines in Bone White around that are landing are the enemy(the DA repainted their armor)

The Space marines then find that the Fallen have rigged a Virus Bomb in the fortress, they can either go after the Geneseed or let the planet live. They spare the planet and commit suicide.

Ah yes, that makes a lot more sense.