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DeathReaper wrote:

Abandon wrote:They are not the same. An exception asserts itself as exempt from the normal rule while a contradiction would directly oppose it. Contradictions break rule systems. Exceptions do not.

and how is:

One says they can move in any direction.

One says they can not move in any direction.

not a contradiction exactly?

They are contradictory, any way you look at it,

Because all units move normally except those with special rules regarding movement. It's also made clear that the normal movement rules are a default and all units move by them unless otherwise stated. If you'd like to continue insisting that rage is in conflict with the rules for moving and the many other contradictions you've found then please feel free to start your own thread on the subject, I have said my piece on it here.

Fortune cookie advise: You will often find what your looking for.

Any way you look at it, the assaulting rules are clear, you are restricted to only getting into base contact with the unit you are assaulting. With a provision for an OPTIONAL multiple assault.

How your argument says otherwise has no rules basis whatsoever.

DeathReaper wrote:

Abandon wrote:"If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model

With the restriction that we can not get into base contact with a unit we are not assaulting.

Declare your assault against a unit, and follow the assault rules.

Then you MAY contact other units after the first guy has moved.

its simple.

If, as you say, you MAY then it's POSSIBLE and "If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model"

Yes, you declare your going to attack a unit in close combat and you do so following the rules. The rules do happen to mention that after the first model is moved you can attack any model in your close combat move regardless of unit but they stipulate that you cannot make base contact without doing so. Simple as that.

Given that that portion of the rule is based on single unit vs single unit, you don't have a leg to stand on. Really, the rules are quite clear and I'm having a problem understanding how you've managed to twist them so unrecognizeably.

P.34 "The remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units"

Notice it says 'can' and not 'Must if possible'

don_mondo wrote:Given that that portion of the rule is based on single unit vs single unit, you don't have a leg to stand on. Really, the rules are quite clear and I'm having a problem understanding how you've managed to twist them so unrecognizeably.

If it were stated that this section is for 1v1 combat I would indeed be legless. The Assaulting Multiple Units section would then necessarily have their own rules for how to move your models but as they do not do either of these things the only logical conclusion is that there is no such thing as a 1v1 assault move or a multiple assault move, there is just an assault move and it always works the same way.

It is stated, per the assaulting multiple units being in a different paragraph. Deal with it.

DeathReaper wrote:P.34 "The remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units"

Notice it says 'can' and not 'Must if possible'

It also says that movement here works like normal movement and that is full of 'can' and 'may' and 'if you want to' type stuff... you know, possibilities without much restriction. When it comes to assault however, most possibilities are removed by the "If possible, then you must" wording... particularly the possibilities that do not get you into base contact with as many enemy models as possible. So the fact that your models CAN attack other units models in CC adds to the possibilities referred to in the rule "If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model". It seems purely logical given the rules created here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

don_mondo wrote:It is stated, per the assaulting multiple units being in a different paragraph. Deal with it.

That paragraph though states that it applies to your assault move when you" find it is possible to reach other enemy units that are close to the one you are assaulting". The "Declare Assault" stage also has is own heading and paragraph. It doesn't mean it has nothing to do with the assault move. Truth is, everything in the section applies to every assault move so... 'deal with it'.

No, it doesn't, since the if possible only applies to units you are already assaulting. And until such time as you assault a second unit under the assaulting multiple units rule, you are only required to assault (if possible) models in the declared unit. Once you decide to optionally assault a second unit, then they are added to the 'if possible' list.

Anyways, you've made up your mind and we're not going to change it. but at least you're giving us a chance to let everyone else know how to counter your arguments. thanks.

don_mondo wrote:the if possible only applies to units you are already assaulting

Where does it say that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

don_mondo wrote:Anyways, you've made up your mind and we're not going to change it. but at least you're giving us a chance to let everyone else know how to counter your arguments. thanks.

I'm not doing this for the exercise. This it really how it looks to me. Honestly I'm getting tired of debating it and if someone could show that I'm wrong I'd be happy to to stop but thus far it hasn't happened.

Gee, I already answered that once. The assault rule is based on assaulting a single unit. Then there is a SEPARATE paragraph to tell you any additional rules that apply if you assault multiple units. The standard assault rules will only apply to those second, third, etc units after you have assaulted them. So if possible does not apply to units you are not assaulting, and (as pointed out already in this thread), it is even covered in the base assault rules that you cannot contact models in units you are not assaulting. So until you decide to assault a second unit, you don't have to assault a second unit. really, it's not that hard.

Abandon wrote:I'm not doing this for the exercise. This it really how it looks to me. Honestly I'm getting tired of debating it and if someone could show that I'm wrong I'd be happy to to stop but thus far it hasn't happened.

"May NOT move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting"

That proves your argument false.

You declare an assault on one unit, and "May NOT move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting"

The Context of assaulting a SINGLE unit proves argument false as well.

Abandon wrote:The rule is not without meaning at all. They have to state somewhere here that you can't make base contact with a unit and not fight them in CC and I notice this is the only place it states it.

Page 35, 'Who Can Fight' third paragraph.

The rules for moving assaulting models aren't dealing with whether or not they fight. They're dealing with moving the assaulting models.

Even if you did have a choice lets not forget the words possible and must here:

"If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model"

And, again, this is in the section that is dealing with single units. Multiple assaults are covered later. No amount of repeating that line in isolation is going to change the context.

You can't just pull a single line out of the rules and apply it to a different situation. Context matters.

Abandon wrote:

Possible- In this case would mean anything within the limits of you or your units abilities in accordance with game rules.
Must- (I'm sure you know what it means) The use of this word in this sentence requires you to make any choice, take any option and/or use any abilities that would get you into base contact with any unengaged enemy model.
Any Enemy Model- Since the rules have given permission for your models to assault(get into CC with) any units models they are all fair game. If there are any in range of your assault move your only choice will be which one to move to.

Even if you had a choice not to assault another unit, that would mean you had two or more possibilities(a choice) and as per the MUST in the rule you would be forced to make the choice that gets you into CC with any unengaged enemy model. Moving as normal you could choose not to move your model at all or move it any direction but in assault most choices are made for you with rules like the above. If you had a choice that would give you and option to have an ability that would allow you that base contact then it is by definition possible to do so(see above rule).

This is incorrect.

You are explicitly DENIED permission to ever make base contact with enemy units, in the Movement rules. The Assault rules carve out an exception to this; you are allowed to make base contact with units that you are assaulting. That being you, you still cannot make base contact with units you are NOT assaulting. This is important.

Why? Because the rules do not force you to declare assaults against multiple units, regardless of the circumstance. You are applying them out of order. Here's how the phase goes;

1. You declare an assault, pick a target, etc.

2. You measure the distance and move your first model. For the purpose of this exercise, assume the assault succeeds, is legal, etc.

3. You determine that you could reach another unit with some of your models.

4. If you want to assault them, you must declare so at this point. Why? Because you can only move into base contact with units you are assaulting (left column, second paragraph, page 34, ". . . may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting.") and the only way we are given to determine that you are 'assaulting' a unit is that you declare so. You can NOT claim that moving into base contact MEANS you are assaulting a unit, because assaulting it is a prerequisite to the ability to move into base contact! The 'assaulting' status must, therefore, come first.

5. Now you examine the assault move rules to tell you how to move. It is not possible to move into base contact with models from any unit that you have not declared you are assaulting.

6. This is the important point, and the one you are missing. You are required to move to assault any model that you possibly can. You are NOT required to MAKE it possible to assault any given model; that is, there is no requirement that you declare all potential assaults, only that when you are resolving assault moves, you contact all the models you legally can.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Abandon wrote:

Possible- In this case would mean anything within the limits of you or your units abilities in accordance with game rules.
Must- (I'm sure you know what it means) The use of this word in this sentence requires you to make any choice, take any option and/or use any abilities that would get you into base contact with any unengaged enemy model.
Any Enemy Model- Since the rules have given permission for your models to assault(get into CC with) any units models they are all fair game. If there are any in range of your assault move your only choice will be which one to move to.

Even if you had a choice not to assault another unit, that would mean you had two or more possibilities(a choice) and as per the MUST in the rule you would be forced to make the choice that gets you into CC with any unengaged enemy model. Moving as normal you could choose not to move your model at all or move it any direction but in assault most choices are made for you with rules like the above. If you had a choice that would give you and option to have an ability that would allow you that base contact then it is by definition possible to do so(see above rule).

This is incorrect.

You are explicitly DENIED permission to ever make base contact with enemy units, in the Movement rules. The Assault rules carve out an exception to this; you are allowed to make base contact with units that you are assaulting. That being you, you still cannot make base contact with units you are NOT assaulting. This is important.

Why? Because the rules do not force you to declare assaults against multiple units, regardless of the circumstance. You are applying them out of order. Here's how the phase goes;

1. You declare an assault, pick a target, etc.

2. You measure the distance and move your first model. For the purpose of this exercise, assume the assault succeeds, is legal, etc.

3. You determine that you could reach another unit with some of your models.

4. If you want to assault them, you must declare so at this point. Why? Because you can only move into base contact with units you are assaulting (left column, second paragraph, page 34, ". . . may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting.") and the only way we are given to determine that you are 'assaulting' a unit is that you declare so. You can NOT claim that moving into base contact MEANS you are assaulting a unit, because assaulting it is a prerequisite to the ability to move into base contact! The 'assaulting' status must, therefore, come first.

5. Now you examine the assault move rules to tell you how to move. It is not possible to move into base contact with models from any unit that you have not declared you are assaulting.

6. This is the important point, and the one you are missing. You are required to move to assault any model that you possibly can. You are NOT required to MAKE it possible to assault any given model; that is, there is no requirement that you declare all potential assaults, only that when you are resolving assault moves, you contact all the models you legally can.

1-3 are correct.

4. The declare assault step is, according to the RAW, only done once. If that assault move succeeds and there are other units nearby the rules for Assaulting Multiple Units is applied as per "As you move assaulting models, you may find it is possible to reach other enemy units that are close to the one you are assaulting" and then your "models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models". There is not second declaration of assault mentioned anywhere so the word assaulting would just mean to engage in CC as a part of the one assault move the unit is making. If it were required you declare anything here the book would state it. As it is you can just measure and move into CC(Assault) with any units models and the text as it's worded gives your models permission to do so whether you choose it or not.

5. The rule you refer to does not state the unit you have declared assault against. It says units you are not assaulting. Meaning that you can't contact them without engaging them in close combat. As there is only one unit you declare against then to take it as your are, you'd only ever be able to assault one unit and the next subsection in the book would be pointless.

6. Again you only declare assault once. There is no second declaration required to give your models the permission to assault other units models they already have it.

Right, there is no second declaration. there is also no requirement to engage models you did not declare an assault against. You can do so if you want to but you are not required to.

Abandon wrote:
4. The declare assault step is, according to the RAW, only done once. If that assault move succeeds and there are other units nearby the rules for Assaulting Multiple Units is applied as per "As you move assaulting models, you may find it is possible to reach other enemy units that are close to the one you are assaulting" and then your "models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models". There is not second declaration of assault mentioned anywhere so the word assaulting would just mean to engage in CC as a part of the one assault move the unit is making. If it were required you declare anything here the book would state it. As it is you can just measure and move into CC(Assault) with any units models and the text as it's worded gives your models permission to do so whether you choose it or not.

Bolded for emphasis.

That's incorrect. You are not allowed to move into base contact with any unit you are not assaulting; there is only one way outlined in the text to gain 'assaulting' status, which is to declare so. You are assuming here that 'assaulting' means 'move into base contact with', but that cannot be true. Why? Because you must be assaulting before you are allowed to move into base contact. You cannot simply move into base contact, and therefore be assaulting the unit; the causality works the other way around. Unless you choose to confer 'assaulting' status on your models in relation to a given unit, you cannot move into base contact with them. This is what you're not understanding.

The rules for assaulting multiple units say you 'can assault' other units within reach. That does not mean 'can move into base contact', it means 'can assault'. 'Assaulting' is a STATUS, a relationship between two units which you are given permission to, at this point, establish.

But you are not REQUIRED to do so.

Abandon wrote:
5. The rule you refer to does not state the unit you have declared assault against. It says units you are not assaulting. Meaning that you can't contact them without engaging them in close combat. As there is only one unit you declare against then to take it as your are, you'd only ever be able to assault one unit and the next subsection in the book would be pointless.

Wrong. It said you can assault them; that means, as I said above, establishing a certain relationship between the units in question, which allows them to move into base contact with each other. The distinction I'm drawing is between 'assaulting' and 'moving into base contact'; they are different things, and 'assaulting' has to come first.

What that means is that if you choose NOT to take advantage of that, when it comes time to figure out what models it is 'possible' to move into base contact with, all the units you are not assaulting are off-limits. It's not possible to move into base contact with them, and so you don't have to do so.

DeathReaper wrote:

Abandon wrote:I'm not doing this for the exercise. This it really how it looks to me. Honestly I'm getting tired of debating it and if someone could show that I'm wrong I'd be happy to to stop but thus far it hasn't happened.

"May NOT move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting"

That proves your argument false.

You declare an assault on one unit, and "May NOT move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting"

The Context of assaulting a SINGLE unit proves argument false as well.

don_mondo wrote:Gee, I already answered that once. The assault rule is based on assaulting a single unit. Then there is a SEPARATE paragraph to tell you any additional rules that apply if you assault multiple units. The standard assault rules will only apply to those second, third, etc units after you have assaulted them. So if possible does not apply to units you are not assaulting, and (as pointed out already in this thread), it is even covered in the base assault rules that you cannot contact models in units you are not assaulting. So until you decide to assault a second unit, you don't have to assault a second unit. really, it's not that hard.

The Assaulting mutiple units text says you have to follow the rules for moving your models into assault. If those rules stated, as you claim, you are only allowed contact with any unit you declared against then you would never be able to move to contact those units they say you can assault and would render the section meaningless. As I've said you sould rethink how you are looking at that statement. It does not say a 'unit you did not delare assault against'. It says a 'unit they are not assaulting'. Assaulting as we know just means fighting in CC.

Abandon wrote: Assaulting as we know just means fighting in CC.

This is still wrong.

'Assaulting' means 'launching an assault'. 'Assaulting', 'being assaulted', 'launching an assault', all of those terms are always used specifically to refer to charging an enemy unit, NOT 'fighting in close-combat'. Rather, the phrase 'close-combat' is used to denote further rounds of close-combat. You are not 'assaulting' on the other player's turn, or in the turn after you assaulted. You are fighting in close-combat.

'Assaulting' is a relationship between two units. You get to DECIDE whether you want to, for lack of a better word, activate that relationship if you meet all the prerequisites. But you are NEVER required to do so.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Bolded for emphasis.

That's incorrect. You are not allowed to move into base contact with any unit you are not assaulting; there is only one way outlined in the text to gain 'assaulting' status, which is to declare so. You are assuming here that 'assaulting' means 'move into base contact with', but that cannot be true. Why? Because you must be assaulting before you are allowed to move into base contact. You cannot simply move into base contact, and therefore be assaulting the unit; the causality works the other way around. Unless you choose to confer 'assaulting' status on your models in relation to a given unit, you cannot move into base contact with them. This is what you're not understanding.

The rules for assaulting multiple units say you 'can assault' other units within reach. That does not mean 'can move into base contact', it means 'can assault'. 'Assaulting' is a STATUS, a relationship between two units which you are given permission to, at this point, establish.

But you are not REQUIRED to do so.

The text does not support this claim. It says your models "can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models" and it does not state any requirements of declaration or otherwise to do so long as they are in reach.

BeRzErKeR wrote:
Wrong. It said you can assault them; that means, as I said above, establishing a certain relationship between the units in question, which allows them to move into base contact with each other. The distinction I'm drawing is between 'assaulting' and 'moving into base contact'; they are different things, and 'assaulting' has to come first.

What that means is that if you choose NOT to take advantage of that, when it comes time to figure out what models it is 'possible' to move into base contact with, all the units you are not assaulting are off-limits. It's not possible to move into base contact with them, and so you don't have to do so.

People keep saying the rules here say 'you can' and it does not say that. The entire moving assaulting units section only tells you what your models are allowed to do and what they will do with those allowances. The only place it says you can do anything is to decide what oder to move you models after the first("After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in any sequence you desire").

Assault is a general term for CC and is used as such thoughout the book and they seem to like the term assaulting for 'charging into close combat' so try not to read to much into it. So basicly the one line everyone keeps refering to...

"may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

...actually means you may not move into base contact with models from a unit they are not 'charging into close combat with' and has nothing to do with the unit you declared against. The only references it makes to that unit is to say that you must assault it(charge into close combat with) it particularly with the first model. After that you are that then required to move into base contact with any enemy model via assaulting(charging into close combat with) that model...

"• If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model."

Any enemy model is an general term and not something you would say if you meant something more specific. The next section then answers in detail the inevitable question 'do they really mean any enemy model?' by stating that yes your models can assault(charge into close combat with) models for other units. No other declaration is stated as being needed here so you can just measure and move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Abandon wrote: Assaulting as we know just means fighting in CC.

This is still wrong.

'Assaulting' means 'launching an assault'. 'Assaulting', 'being assaulted', 'launching an assault', all of those terms are always used specifically to refer to charging an enemy unit, NOT 'fighting in close-combat'. Rather, the phrase 'close-combat' is used to denote further rounds of close-combat. You are not 'assaulting' on the other player's turn, or in the turn after you assaulted. You are fighting in close-combat.

'Assaulting' is a relationship between two units. You get to DECIDE whether you want to, for lack of a better word, activate that relationship if you meet all the prerequisites. But you are NEVER required to do so.

This is not always true. A multiple assault is any CC where more than two units are involved. It does not matter if anyone moved into it, three turns later(if they are still there) it's still called a multiple assault.

Abandon wrote:

This is not always true. A multiple assault is any CC where more than two units are involved. It does not matter if anyone moved into it, three turns later(if they are still there) it's still called a multiple assault.

No it isn't. It is called a multiple combat. In fact, there's a whole section entitled 'Multiple Combats' telling you how to resolve a multiple combat.

A 'multiple assault' is the act of initiating a multiple combat. 'Assaulting' is initiating a combat, via charging in; it requires you to declare who you are assaulting. You are confused because your terminology is incorrect.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Abandon wrote:

This is not always true. A multiple assault is any CC where more than two units are involved. It does not matter if anyone moved into it, three turns later(if they are still there) it's still called a multiple assault.

No it isn't. It is called a multiple combat. In fact, there's a whole section entitled 'Multiple Combats' telling you how to resolve a multiple combat.

A 'multiple assault' is the act of initiating a multiple combat. 'Assaulting' is initiating a combat, via charging in; it requires you to declare who you are assaulting. You are confused because your terminology is incorrect.

Well your right there... that's what I get for not consulting the book first.

Even so assaulting additional units does not require any kind of declaration. It is plainly stated your models are allowed to do so without any action or decision required on your part. As I said the only choice it presents is what order to move your models in after the first. Everything else is clearly worded for what your models are allowed to do and what you must do with those allowances.

You're still disregarding the prohibition on moving into contact with units you're not assaulting. Your interpretation renders this prohibition meaningless, and thus cannot be correct.

A choice has to be made to engage any given unit. Once that choice is made, models in that unit become legal options for the assault moves sequence. But not until the assaulting player makes that choice..

Mannahnin wrote:You're still disregarding the prohibition on moving into contact with units you're not assaulting. Your interpretation renders this prohibition meaningless, and thus cannot be correct.

A choice has to be made to engage any given unit. Once that choice is made, models in that unit become legal options for the assault moves sequence. But not until the assaulting player makes that choice..

It states, you must charge into close combat with them to make base contact(further defined thanks to BeRzErKeR). That is not a statement without meaning. Many things happen when you do that. Bonus attacks, defensive/offensive grenades, counterattack, etc.

The fact that is getting ignored is that the Moving Assaulting Models section must allow you to move into contact with models of other units or there would never be a multiple assault since it is clearly stated that you must follow these rules when doing so. You are only given permission to declare against one enemy unit so if this is going to make any sense at all rule must be taken in a way that allows you to assault other units as well.

Abandon wrote:You are only given permission to declare against one enemy unit so if this is going to make any sense at all rule must be taken in a way that allows you to assault other units as well.

Yes you are "Allowed" to assault multiple units, but it is only an option to do so as laid out in the Assaulting multiple enemy units rules.

Remember it says "Then remaining models CAN assault models belonging to other enemy units."

If it was mandatory it would not say that they "CAN", it would say that they "MUST" which is not the case.

This is a 20+ group of people having a logical discussion while one of them is playing "Who's on First". Abandon has repeatedly ignored the consequences of the WHOLE rule set by applying particular constraints from one separate but related section to another. Let him. He will not change his mind despite the fact every other person posting on this thread has disagreed with him and agreed with each other. And good luck with your, uh, 'idea' in practice. I am curious if you will insist on your opponents multi-assaulting every unit they can, and, if you have done so, what the outcome was.

The assaulting multiple units section states:
"they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models"

It has been put forth by several people that the text in the moving assaulting models rules do not allow you to make base contact with units you did not declare against. Tell me how you mean to assault other units if they cannot make base contact per either the assault movement rules or the assaulting multiple units rules(being that they just refer to the assault movement rules)?

Oh, wait I know the answer...

DeathReaper wrote:

Abandon wrote:You are only given permission to declare against one enemy unit so if this is going to make any sense at all rule must be taken in a way that allows you to assault other units as well.

Yes you are "Allowed" to assault multiple units, but it is only an option to do so as laid out in the Assaulting multiple enemy units rules.

Remember it says "Then remaining models CAN assault models belonging to other enemy units."

If it was mandatory it would not say that they "CAN", it would say that they "MUST" which is not the case.

It also tells you that you can move
"All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase"
and that you can get within an inch of enemy models
"with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models"
does this mean these things are always optional? No. Out of all these things it says your models CAN do it tells you what you MUST do.

No can in this one: "All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase"

It says All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move, that means it is not optional.

Basic English comprehension tells us this.

As for "with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models" that would be optional with out the first provision.

Again basic English comprehension tells us this.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:This is a 20+ group of people having a logical discussion while one of them is playing "Who's on First". Abandon has repeatedly ignored the consequences of the WHOLE rule set by applying particular constraints from one separate but related section to another. Let him. He will not change his mind despite the fact every other person posting on this thread has disagreed with him and agreed with each other. And good luck with your, uh, 'idea' in practice. I am curious if you will insist on your opponents multi-assaulting every unit they can, and, if you have done so, what the outcome was.

Doing multiple assaults every chance you get is not the outcome of what I've been arguing. If you think I'm just giving the run around I'll sum it up for you.

My Statement:

The basic result of the rules here IMO is that when you go to move an assaulting model aside from the first and there are only unengaged enemy models belonging to a enemy unit you did not declare against then you would have to mandatorily assault that units models with the one you are moving per the moving assaulting models rules. It is the natural conclusion when you add "remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units" and "If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model". It would only come up situationally and is completely in line with the clear intent of the rules here. "Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible with as many of their models as possible – no holding back!"

Arguments thus far:

The Assaulting Multiple Units section makes it clear it's an optional ability and are therefore not forced to assault another unit if you do not want to.
-This is not in the RAW. It says "As you move assaulting models, you may find it is possible to reach other enemy units that are close to the one you are assaulting" and goes on to say that when that happens your "models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models". So they get the ability to assault other units models whenever they are in reach and the necessary permission is not given for this ability to be optional.

It says you can, not that you must
-This is correct but you are compelled to consider all the possible things your model can do when it says "If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model". This makes some things your model can do become things it must do.

The rule that says "If possible, the model must" is only for assaulting one unit.
-This is also not in the RAW. There is only one set of rules for moving into assault, not one set for single and another for multiple. It even says that in the Assaulting Multiple Units section as I've quoted above. It always works the same way.

In the moving assaulting models section it states your models "may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting", since you've only declared against one unit it means you cannot make base contact with other units models.
-Seriously? This would make moving into multiple assaults impossible since you could never move your models into base contact with another units models. Bear in mind this is a rule for moving assaulting models and is always observed even in multiple assaults. Since this would subvert the whole subheading this view of the statement cannot be correct and should be rethought.

If your going to assault an additional unit you must declare so. This establishes a state of assault in relation to the enemy unit and allows your models to make base contact.
-This actually made the most sense but unfortunately is entirely fabricated. It is not in the RAW. You are only given permission to declare an assault on one unit and does not require you to make further declarations to assault others.

End summery

I feel I'm actually the one getting the run around since I've answered most of these several times yet people just keep restating them. So if there is another answer without a bunch of holes in it, that makes sense and is supported by the RAW then please let me know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:No can in this one: "All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase"

It says All of the models in an assaulting unit make their assault move, that means it is not optional.

Basic English comprehension tells us this.

As for "with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models" that would be optional with out the first provision.

Again basic English comprehension tells us this.

Yes, it tells you your models have all the options from the movement phase and then tells you what you MUST do with them.

In the moving assaulting models section it states your models "may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting", since you've only declared against one unit it means you cannot make base contact with other units models.
-Seriously? This would make moving into multiple assaults impossible since you could never move your models into base contact with another units models. Bear in mind this is a rule for moving assaulting models and is always observed even in multiple assaults. Since this would subvert the whole subheading this view of the statement cannot be correct and should be rethought.

Your conclusion here is entirely false. You are disregarding a rule, rather than figuring out how and why it works. There is an IMPLICIT requirement here that a decision be made to assault or not assault other units adjacent to the original declared target.