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Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Nashville/Hendersonville, TN

Abandon wrote:As far as the assaulting multiple enemies rules it does not state it's a option you can turn on and off, it just says you can do it.


"Can" doesn't equal "must," therefore multiple assaults are not mandatory. It is something you can do if you are in range of a second enemy unit, as long as you have first satisfied all the steps in the "Moving Assaulting Models" section.

   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

insaniak wrote:
Abandon wrote:[Why do poeple keep saying it's only for assaulting one unit. It does not state that anywhere.

Because it does say that, in the rules for moving your assaulting models.

You declare an enemy unit as a target. You move your models into contact with that unit. They don't address assaulting multiple units until you reach a separate section of the rules later on. Before that point, the rules are dealing solely with single unit assaults.


As for rapid fire, it is optional only because there is no rule stating you must fire as many shots as possible. If there were, then you'd have to rapid fire every time you had opportunity to do so.

I have no idea what that had to do with the current discussion, but it's incorrect. Rapid Fire weapons fire one shot at up to maximum range, or two shots at up to 12 ". The only choice you have is to fire or not to fire. The number of shots is set by the range to the target and whether or not the firer moved.


You can choose not to fire them and fire your pistols instead or not fire and take a run. There are no rules mandating your actions and therefore the permissive rules allow you complete freedom of choice. In assault you are compelled to take actions causing rules that are permissive to simply provide a wider array of things you can be forced to do.

As far as the assault rules though you are only partially correct. Yes, you must declare a unit to assault and yes you must move the first model to engage it. It does not meantion the target unit more than is needed to state you need to do those things. The rest of the rules leave you free to make base contact with any enemy model regardless of unit. The assaulting multiple units is not a seperate rule. It's in the same Moving Assaulting Units section as the rest. It even states "As you move assaulting models, you may find it is possible to reach other enemy units" indicating you have already started the assault as per the normal(the only) assault rules and while your making your moves as per normal you "can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models".

It is not it's own set of rules. It is a rule that permits you to make base contact with any enemy model in reach during every assault move. There is no 'declare multi-unit assault'. There is only "declare assault" and it works the same way every time.

-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

It works almost the same way. The difference is whether you choose to engage (or attempt to engage) a second (or more) enemy unit. If so, the models engaged will change.

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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

Lord_Mortis wrote:
Abandon wrote:As far as the assaulting multiple enemies rules it does not state it's a option you can turn on and off, it just says you can do it.


"Can" doesn't equal "must," therefore multiple assaults are not mandatory. It is something you can do if you are in range of a second enemy unit, as long as you have first satisfied all the steps in the "Moving Assaulting Models" section.


When you are compelled to make base contact with an enemey model does in fact change the "can" into a "must". The second bullet in moving assaulting units states that 'if its possible then you must' and something you "can" do is undeniably something that's "possible" for you to do, it stands to reason that if you "can" you "must".

-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

The phrasing of the multiple assault rules makes clear that it's a choice.

The phrasing of the moving into assault sequence mandates how assault moves are made, once you've decided to start assaulting one or multiple units.

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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

Just put a sizable unit on a table and one inch away place an enemy IC. Then place and enemy unit two inches for the IC and one inch away from your unit. Assalt the IC, move you first model as normal, go to move the next closest and ask yourself if it is possible to get into base contact with an enemy model not already in base contact with an assaulting model?(don't lie to yourself, you've read the assaulting multiple units section. You know it is indeed possible for you to do that). If you said yes to yourself(and you always should) then read the second bullet in moving assaulting models and you'll see my point.

-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I've read those rules at least as many times as you have, and in my considered opinion you are incorrect. The requirement to engage an unengaged model only applies to the unit or units which you choose to engage in close combat with. One of which must be the unit you declared the assault against. Any units beyond that are optional. Once you make the choice to engage a model from a second unit, however, all further assault moves from the assaulting unit that turn force maximizing engagement against models in said units. The assault moves sequence is written to function equally well whether you're assaulting one or multiple units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/10 06:33:21


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Under the couch

Abandon wrote:...go to move the next closest and ask yourself if it is possible to get into base contact with an enemy model not already in base contact with an assaulting model

No, because there are no other models in the target unit.

Unless, that is, you choose to assault another enemy unit that is in range, as allowed by the multiple assaults rules.


What it comes doen to is whether or not you take that reference to an enemy model not already in base contact to apply to any enemy model on the board, or just enemy models in the unit against which you intially declared the charge. And since the assault rules are dealing within one unit assaulting one unit until you get to the multiple assault rules, within that context it means enemy models from the target unit.

Engaging multiple enemy units is a choice. If you choose to do so, then they are bound by the same assaulting rules as if you were just charging a single unit.

 
   
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Nashville/Hendersonville, TN

Abandon wrote:
Lord_Mortis wrote:
Abandon wrote:As far as the assaulting multiple enemies rules it does not state it's a option you can turn on and off, it just says you can do it.


"Can" doesn't equal "must," therefore multiple assaults are not mandatory. It is something you can do if you are in range of a second enemy unit, as long as you have first satisfied all the steps in the "Moving Assaulting Models" section.


When you are compelled to make base contact with an enemey model does in fact change the "can" into a "must". The second bullet in moving assaulting units states that 'if its possible then you must' and something you "can" do is undeniably something that's "possible" for you to do, it stands to reason that if you "can" you "must".


The rules do not compel you to assault more than one enemy unit if you do not want to. You declare a target unit, then follow all the steps listed under moving assaulting models. IF after satisfying all the steps and you have models that are not either a)in base to base with an enemy model in the target unit b) within 2" of a friendly model from the same unit that is in b2b with an enemy model from the target unit, then, if you are able to maintain coherency, other models can then assault a second unit, following the same steps as before, but they are not required to. In essence, you move the closest model in your unit towards the target unit. Next, you move another model from the unit into base to base with an enemy but you have to maintain coherency with the first model that moved. The next model moves and attempts to get in to base to base, and at the same time must maintain coherency with the 2 models that have already moved, and so on and so on, with each new assaulting model maintaining coherency with models that have already moved.

Honestly, I've been playing this edition for a few years now, and I have never seen someone attempt to interpret the assault rules like this with a straight face....

Seriously, if this was a confusing issue, it would have been brought up many times before over the past few years, instead of now near the end of 5th edition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/10 07:06:38


   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

It would not be the first commonly accepted misconception in the world.

The idea that your models can only engage the target unit unless you choose to assault other units just seems entirely fabricated. The target unit is only specified for the purpose that you must assault it and then specifys with the first model you move. The rest of the moving assaulting units rules plainly say "enemy model" and do not specify a unit and unless you think they wrote this on accident we'd have to assume it's what they intended.

If you want to establish the context the only thing in this section not explaing or stating a rule is "Assaulting units must attempt to engage as many opposing models as possible with as many of their models as possible – no holding back!" Which is an not a necessary satement since they force you to do this with the rules that follow anyways so if you want a statement purly for context here it is.

And no, it is not confusing at all. It seems quite clear. Something is possible or it is not. If you can choose something then it is possible.

Show me where it says you can turn off you ability to assault multiple units and I'll apologize for waisting your time. It is not an optional rule you can use or not. However it is a rule that creates options. It is a permissive rule applied during every 'Moving Assaulting Units' phase. Which is why it's in that section and it has no off switch.

Choice = possibility
Option = possibility
Something you can do = possibility

Please stop trying to use other words to get around saying it's possible. It is in fact possible to make base contact with any enemy unit within reach in any assaulting move. You can in fact just pick your model up and move to the unengaged enemy model of another unit you are not currently assaulting(assuming all other rules are observed) and place it in base contact and you will be assaulting that unit as well. You can do it, it's an option, it is POSSIBLE.

So yes, quite simple.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/10 08:56:04


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Abandon wrote:Show me where it says you can turn off you ability to assault multiple units and I'll apologize for waisting your time


You're still looking at it backwards.

It's not a matter of turning that ability off. It's a matter of multiple assaults being an additional option, not the standard procedure.

Once again, they outline the normal assault process. At this point in the rules, they deal solely with a single enemy unit. They then branch out into an additional set of rules that adds in the ability to assault multiple units. This is an addition to the normal rules, and is presented as something optional that you can choose to do. As such, it alters the normal rules slightly... if you choose to take that action.

 
   
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Nashville/Hendersonville, TN

Abandon wrote:You can do it, it's an option, it is POSSIBLE.


Exactly. Can doesn't equal must. It is an option that is possible if a second enemy unit is close enough. Nothing in the rules requires you to initiate an assault against a second unit. It is optional. It is something you CAN do if you should choose. Can doesn't equal must.

   
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There was someone else on this forum that clung to this theory almost as much as Abandon is doing now.
   
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Florence, KY

Why are there even separate rules for charging multiple units if the main rules force you to charge multiple units in the first place? Did GW just decide to repeat themselves for no reason?

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

The Moving Assaulting Units rules do not directly compel you to engage other enemy units. They do however compel you to engage 'enemy models' without regard for unit. The Assaulting Multiple Units sections then repeats this to clairify that if you do(what you have just been compelled to do) you are assaulting all the units you are in base contact with.

"• If possible, the model must move into base contact
with any enemy model within reach that is not
already in base contact with an assaulting model."

Please don't try to tell me they are refering to the unit you declared against. That is not stated directly, by inference or context anywhere. The target unit is only specified to state you must assault it (that's a rule) and specifically with the first model you move. All your other models are able to and indeed must make base contact with "any enemy model within reach".

-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Abandon wrote:"• If possible, the model must move into base contact
with any enemy model within reach that is not
already in base contact with an assaulting model."

Please don't try to tell me they are refering to the unit you declared against. That is not stated directly, by inference or context anywhere. The target unit is only specified to state you must assault it (that's a rule) and specifically with the first model you move. All your other models are able to and indeed must make base contact with "any enemy model within reach".


As I said before, the phrasing of that section is deliberately left flexible to apply to either one or multiple units. Whether in the case of any given assault it applies to only the single unit you declared your assault against, or multiple units, is a matter of choice, as made clear in the section on assaulting multiple units.

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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

It also says "models in an assaulting unit make their assault move following the same rules as in the Movement phase". The movement phase is full of options and choices. Things you CAN do. The assault rules however the dictate what choices you must make causing things that would be optional to become compulsory.

The movement section states "Infantry move up to six inches" clearly inticating you have the option/choice to move less than six inches or not move at all and in that phase you are free to do so moving in any direction you want while maintaing coherency. By your logic then during assault you could choose to move less than your max assault move so as not to contact an enemy model you optionally could have. That logic is incorrect though as it is clear your choices are being made for you by the rules that mandate your actions.

Here are your choices in any assault after the first move.
A) If there are unengaged enemy models withing reach, which one do I make base contact with?
B) If there are no unengaged enemy models withing reach, which already engaged one to I contact?
C) If you cannot make base contact with any enemy model, where in coherency of your own models that are already in base contact with them do I want to go?
D) If none of the above are possible, where within coherecy do I want to go?

There is never a time at which you will decide to assault mutiple units or not. The above choices are all you get.

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Manchester, NH

Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units is a subsection, and says you "can" do it. If you were correct, it would say "must". Compare to the language about maximizing contact in general.

And as Ghaz pointed out, there would be no need for it to be a subsection. The rules would just say that you assault multiple units if they're next to each other.


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More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California

When you have rules the dictate what options you will take your argument that it's optional ceases to make sense.

Yeah, it got it's own subsection that details what is clearly allowed in the rest of the section so what? That does not mean anything. Many things in the book have their own subheading. It does not even contain any rules of it's own. It's just an explanation of what happens when you contact another unit per the Moving Assault Models rules. It confirms that you can contact other units during that move and that you will be assaulting them as well. I never says you'll have a choice in the end either. Any choice stated or implied is trumped by the movemet rules that decide what choices you will make.

CAN=POSSIBLE
and
"If POSSIBLE, then you MUST..."
therefore
'If you CAN, then you MUST...'

So please stop repeating "Can doesn't equal must" it is not going to get any more true no matter how many times you say it.

And no they do not force you to multi assault units near each other all the time but it may end up that way situationaly depending on the positioning of the models, the terrain and the size of the units.

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Nashville/Hendersonville, TN

Abandon wrote:When you have rules the dictate what options you will take your argument that it's optional ceases to make sense.

Yeah, it got it's own subsection that details what is clearly allowed in the rest of the section so what? That does not mean anything. Many things in the book have their own subheading. It does not even contain any rules of it's own. It's just an explanation of what happens when you contact another unit per the Moving Assault Models rules. It confirms that you can contact other units during that move and that you will be assaulting them as well. I never says you'll have a choice in the end either. Any choice stated or implied is trumped by the movemet rules that decide what choices you will make.

CAN=POSSIBLE
and
"If POSSIBLE, then you MUST..."
therefore
'If you CAN, then you MUST...'

So please stop repeating "Can doesn't equal must" it is not going to get any more true no matter how many times you say it.

And no they do not force you to multi assault units near each other all the time but it may end up that way situationaly depending on the positioning of the models, the terrain and the size of the units.


Can doesn't equal must. Do I really have to break it down for you?

Page 33
Assault Phase Summary
1. Move assaulting units
Pick a unit. (Note: pick a "unit." Singular, not plural)
Declare which enemy unit is going to assault
Move the assaulting unit
Pick another unit and repeat the above until all assaulting units have moved.

Page 34
Move Assaulting Units
"Assaulting units must now move into close combat with the unit they have declared an assault against." (Note again: Rules still are talking about a single unit being assaulted.

All the rules following that are discussing a single unit assaulting one enemy unit. All the rules at this point are discussing getting as many models from the assaulting unit into base to base or within 2" of the one target unit.

Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units
This should be self explanatory, but apparently not. NOW you are informed that instead of ONLY assaulting just one enemy unit, you CAN, if other enemy units are close enough, assault a second enemy unit with the same assaulting squad. Why? Because up until this point, you have only been give permission to assault one unit, which is the unit you declared as the target unit., and all the rules are talking about moving and assaulting that one target unit. After all models from the assualting unit have ended up in base to base with a model from the target unit or within 2" of a model in b2b with the target unit, then other models in the assaulting unit that aren't able to get into b2b or within 2" CAN assault another enemy (you are now give permission to assault a second unit, but you are not being required to) unit as long as they maintain coherency and then assault in the sequence as described for assaulting one enemy unit (get into b2b first, then within 2"). However, this is purely optional, and assaulting units are only required to assault the unit they declared as their target. Can doesn't equal must.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/12 04:52:13


   
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Florence, KY

It means that since you can't explain it you're just going to ignore it, just like you've ignored everything else.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

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Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
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Infiltrating Broodlord





Eureka California



You declare the assault against a unit and must then assault that unit. You had it all correct up til this point.

Lord_Mortis wrote:All the rules following that are discussing a single unit assaulting one enemy unit. All the rules at this point are discussing getting as many models from the assaulting unit into base to base or within 2" of the one target unit.

Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units
This should be self explanatory, but apparently not. NOW you are informed that instead of ONLY assaulting just one enemy unit, you CAN, if other enemy units are close enough, assault a second enemy unit with the same assaulting squad. Why? Because up until this point, you have only been give permission to assault one unit, which is the unit you declared as the target unit., and all the rules are talking about moving and assaulting that one target unit. After all models from the assualting unit have ended up in base to base with a model from the target unit or within 2" of a model in b2b with the target unit, then other models in the assaulting unit that aren't able to get into b2b or within 2" CAN assault another enemy (you are now give permission to assault a second unit, but you are not being required to) unit as long as they maintain coherency and then assault in the sequence as described for assaulting one enemy unit (get into b2b first, then within 2"). However, this is purely optional, and assaulting units are only required to assault the unit they declared as their target. Can doesn't equal must.


Of the rest of the rules you refer to only one states it must be made againts the target unit which is of course the first model you move.

"Start each assault by moving a single model from the assaulting unit. The model selected must be the one closest to the enemy (going around impassable terrain, friendly models and enemy models in units not being assaulted). Move the model into contact with the nearest enemy model in the unit being assaulted, using the shortest possible route"

The rest of the rules compel you to move into contact with any enemy model.

"If the enemy is within range, then the assault move continues. After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in any sequence you desire. There are some constraints on their movement though:
• The most important one is that each model must end its assault move in coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.
• If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model.
• If there are no such models in reach, the model must move into base contact with an enemy model that is already in base contact with an assaulting model.
• If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it must try to move within 2" of one of its own unit’s models that is already in base contact with an enemy."

Notice the constraint of units 'not being assaulted' is removed here and you are now told(not given the choice) to get into base contact with any enemy model. It is fairly self explanatory but knowing people would be confused over this they added a whole section stating that getting into base contact with other units is fine and yes, you are assaulting them to.

"As you move assaulting models, you may find it is possible to reach other enemy units that are close to the one you are assaulting."

They repeat the steps somewhat so you'll know exactly when this can happen.

"As usual the closest attacking model must be moved to contact the closest model in the enemy unit against which the assault was declared. Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models. Remember that the assaulting unit is not allowed to break its unit coherency, and this will obviously limit the potential for this kind of assault."

It just says you can do something it already told you to do in the last section. It's called an explanation and many have their own subheading especially when they know something needs it in a in-depth mannor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote:It means that since you can't explain it you're just going to ignore it, just like you've ignored everything else.


Disagreeing and ignoring are two different things. I have already addressed every opposing point and found no evidence to counter my own and put forth much for it. Mostly the RAW.

If, in the Moving Assaulting Units rules, where the says "any enemy model" they had meant 'any model in the target unit' that would create a conflict in the rules as no assaults on multiple units would be possible.

"models can assault models belonging to other enemy units, as long as they keep following the rules for moving assaulting models"

So it can only be that the rules mean exactly what they say. "any enemy model".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/12 08:38:57


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So one of the players has their tray of not yet deployed models sitting just off the board, and one of the undeployed models happens to be close enough that a model could reach it without breaking any of the other assault rules. So, clearly, since the rules say "any enemy model", it's mandatory to move into base contact with the undeployed model.

After all, if you're going to ignore the rule which states that you can only move into base contact with a model from a unit that you're assaulting, why stop there? Why not just ignore the unwritten rule about charging off the table?

Once you choose to assault the other unit, it becomes mandatory to move into base contact with those models. Until you do so, the prohibition against moving into base contact with units that aren't being assaulted still applies without needing to constantly restated. Just like the prohibition against charging off the table edge still applies, and the prohibition against moving through models still applies.
   
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Abandon wrote:

The rest of the rules compel you to move into contact with any enemy model.


Any enemy model that is in the target unit, as at this point, you still have assaulted only one unit, the target unit, and you have only been given permission to assault this one unit. This is what you are not getting. All of the rules in "Moving Assaulting Models" are dealing with only two units: the assaulting unit and the target unit. It is not until the rules for "Assaulting Mulitple Enemy Units" that you are given permission to assault more units than the target unit. The rules don't start off talking about just one unit (the target unit) and then suddenly part way through them start applying to units other than the target unit, until you reach the section "Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units" which then specifically states you CAN (not must) assault more than one unit. Even in that section, it even says that if you follow all the assaulting rules properly it "limits the potential" to pull that off. It really is that simple.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/12 13:39:51


   
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Florence, KY

Abandon wrote:Yeah, it got it's own subsection that details what is clearly allowed in the rest of the section so what? That does not mean anything.

I stand by my statement. You can't explain it so you decide to ignore it. Obvious troll is obvious.

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Eureka California

solkan wrote:So one of the players has their tray of not yet deployed models sitting just off the board, and one of the undeployed models happens to be close enough that a model could reach it without breaking any of the other assault rules. So, clearly, since the rules say "any enemy model", it's mandatory to move into base contact with the undeployed model.

After all, if you're going to ignore the rule which states that you can only move into base contact with a model from a unit that you're assaulting, why stop there? Why not just ignore the unwritten rule about charging off the table?

Once you choose to assault the other unit, it becomes mandatory to move into base contact with those models. Until you do so, the prohibition against moving into base contact with units that aren't being assaulted still applies without needing to constantly restated. Just like the prohibition against charging off the table edge still applies, and the prohibition against moving through models still applies.


Those units are not on the board and therefore do not exist as far as the game is concerned. As far as the rule that sates you "may not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting" that is only applied to the first model you move and it is then made clear that if your other models get into base contact with other units they are indeed assaulting it and it is therefore allowed.

It never says you get to decide to assault another unit. There are only the assault movement steps as laid out. If after following those rules you are in base contact with more than one unit, then it's a multiple assault.

Lord_Mortis wrote:
Abandon wrote:

The rest of the rules compel you to move into contact with any enemy model.


Any enemy model that is in the target unit, as at this point, you still have assaulted only one unit, the target unit, and you have only been given permission to assault this one unit. This is what you are not getting. All of the rules in "Moving Assaulting Models" are dealing with only two units: the assaulting unit and the target unit. It is not until the rules for "Assaulting Mulitple Enemy Units" that you are given permission to assault more units than the target unit. The rules don't start off talking about just one unit (the target unit) and then suddenly part way through them start applying to units other than the target unit, until you reach the section "Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units" which then specifically states you CAN (not must) assault more than one unit. Even in that section, it even says that if you follow all the assaulting rules properly it "limits the potential" to pull that off. It really is that simple.



First off YOU are never given permission to assault other units. The model is given the permission. "Then remaining models can assault models belonging to other enemy units". Since they get that permission whenever there is another enemy unit in reach of the assaulting unit during the assault move they are able to make base contact with that units models. It may seem like very little difference but it is an important distinction since you cannot choose not to give them permission.

Second: You are a little hung up on the order they lay things out. The Assaulting Multiple Units section presents itself as a modifier and qualifier of the Moving Assaulting Models rules which is why it tells you to keep following them(stating this applies "As you move assaulting models" and therefore cannot be ignored if you don't feel like using it. Think of it as an addendum not a separate rule. It's also a somewhat lengthy explanation and needs it own section because throwing it in the middle of everything else would be confusing.

Third: It says "any enemy model"(without the 'of target unit' you keep adding. If you'd stop adding words to the RAW you could use more little quote marks and your argument would not look like an opinion). If they meant something else, they would have used other words like you like to add but they don't. The assault is deliberately opened up to "any enemy model" of any unit. The big hint here is the use of the word ANY.

Fourth: These rules are not intended for just one unit on one unit combat. I have no idea where you got that thought from as it is not stated anywhere. Please tell me where it says this. All of these rules are for ALL assault moves. Just because every assault needs to assault a target does not mean anything. That's just the rules, they need to mention those.

Note: IMO, GW has had a bit or practice writing these books and generally are specific when they mean something specific and not when they don't. They know better than to write "any enemy model" when they mean something more specific. You need accept what is written as it is written. Otherwise you're just making things up.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/02/12 16:06:28


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Abandon wrote:First off YOU are never given permission to assault other units. The model is given the permission.


And I would like to see the model move itself into base contact with an enemy model.

Third: It says "any enemy model"(without the 'of target unit' you keep adding. If you'd stop adding words to the RAW you could use more little quote marks and your argument would not look like an opinion). If they meant something else, they would have used other words like you like to add but they don't. The assault is deliberately opened up to "any enemy model" of any unit. The big hint here is the use of the word ANY.


Take a look again at this rule:"Assaulting units must now move into close combat with the unit they have declared an assault against."
Reading that and applying it to the rules that follow, the rules are talking about "any enemy models" in this target unit ONLY.
Only in the "Assaulting Multiple Enemy Units" section are you give permission to assault other units if close enough.
Leave out the whole section regarding AMEU. Pretend it doesn't exist.
Look again at the rules for moving assaulting units, especially the sentence "Assaulting units must now move into close combat with the unit they have declared an assault against." Since only one unit is being discussed at this point, it follows that all the rules that follow that sentence are discussing the models in the target unit only.

Now can you find the hidden word?


   
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The target unit is used for only two rules. That you must move into assault with that unit and that you must do so with the first unit. It does this because if you do not, the whole assault fails and nothing happens. It then lists a whole new set of rules for moving the rest of the unit that ignore the target unit (as in makes no mention of, does not hint at or refer to, etc). This is all accordding to the Moving Assaulting Models rules regardless of the AMU clarification. You keep stating that the two rules they need to inform us of somehow add themselves into all the others but since they make no metion of each other no such correlation can be drawn here.

"Assaulting units must now move into close combat with the unit they have declared an assault against."

"Start eachassault by moving a single model from the assaulting unit. The model selected must be the one closest to the enemy (going around impassable terrain, friendly models and enemy models in units not being assaulted). Move the model into contact with the nearest enemy model in the unit being assaulted,"

These are the rules you keep refering to and they are just that. Rules. Nothing in them modifies any other rule except that are requirements for the assault to continue and if not met will cause the assault end before it begins. The rest of the models are move on another set of rules.

"After moving the first model in the unit, you can move the others in any sequence you desire. There are some constraints on their movement though:
• The most important one is that each model must end its assault move in coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.
• If possible, the model must move into base contact with any enemy model within reach that is not already in base contact with an assaulting model.
• If there are no such models in reach, the model must move into base contact with an enemy model that is already in base contact with an assaulting model.
• If a model cannot reach any enemy models, it must try to move within 2" of one of its own unit’s models that is already in base contact with an enemy.
• If this is impossible, it must simply stay in coherency.
If you follow this sequence you will end up with all the models in the assaulting unit in unit coherency, having engaged as many enemy models as possible with as many assaulting models as possible."

Notice it makes a new list of constraints on moving them and none of them include a target unit. If you look at it carefully and don't add extra words to it, it says exactly what I've been saying.

As for the models getting permission and not you- You are not allowed to to do anything the model is not able to do. You yourself are perfectly able to pick up the model and put hime anywhere you like but by the book you are only allowed to move it where it has been given permission to move.

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Abandon wrote:"Assaulting units must now move into close combat with the unit they have declared an assault against."


This means that any models in the "Assaulting units must now move into close combat" with whom you say? well the answer is right there in the next part of the sentence you quoted "with the unit they have declared an assault against."

So you use the "list of constraints on moving" in accordance with the rules about the target unit.

assaulting multiple enemy units is only an option.

Page 34 even gives you the restriction on assaulting enemies that are not in the unit that you are not assaulting

"Assaulting models...May NOT move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting" (BRB 34)

How is this line unclear?

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"Assaulting models...May NOT move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting" (BRB 34)

How is this line unclear?


Exactly. This prohibition is contradictory to the concept that you automatically assault any enemy unit whose model is within the area where the move assaulting models sequence is taking place.

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