test tube burgers and ethics :

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**dogma**

Melissia wrote:You took a class on it... along with every single American who has at least one recent (within the past ten years) college degree, I believe.

I didn't, but that might be the result of going to a private school.

**Chongara**

dogma wrote:
Melissia wrote:You took a class on it... along with every single American who has at least one recent (within the past ten years) college degree, I believe.

I didn't, but that might be the result of going to a private school.

I went to a cheap-o public university, I did take a nutrition class but it wasn't mandatory. It was one of many classes you could take for a more general requirement, but it didn't have to be anything health/food science related.

**WarOne**

Chongara wrote:
dogma wrote:
Melissia wrote:You took a class on it... along with every single American who has at least one recent (within the past ten years) college degree, I believe.

I didn't, but that might be the result of going to a private school.

I went to a cheap-o public university, I did take a nutrition class but it wasn't mandatory. It was one of many classes you could take for a more general requirement, but it didn't have to be anything health/food science related.

This is what a public school education gets you:

I keep trying to click on the "Join Us" button in your avatar, but I all keep getting is your profile.

**warpcrafter**

KingCracker wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:Anything like this will go through a lot of testing before reaching the marketplace so I think it will be 'safe', though the quality may be questionable. But that's true of all McDonalds' "food".

I don't think many vegetarians will turn around because of this though. For a start you still need animals kept in captivity and many don't agree with the conditions of farming. There's also the chemical content, I avoid cheap meat because of hormones, but I'm quite a keen meat eater all the same. But I wouldn't eat lab produced meat is the chemical content was dubious (even if legal). Also quite a few are vegetarian as a matter of personal taste preference.

This is the 21st century, our medications don't go through more than a bare minimum of testing, and even then the lawmakers who are supposed to regulate the industry are in the back pocket of corporate lobbyists. This stuff probably won't be thoroughly tested either. However, it will be made cheaply, and genuine farm-grown meat will become a luxury product, so us little people will have two choices, eat whatever we can grow ourselves or buy whatever the military industrial complex sees fit to sell us. That is gonna go for vegetables and grains too. People kibble.

Ive gotta ask, because Id like to know, you DO realize your sound completely fething nuts right? Whats it feel like to be so fruity?

sebster wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:This is the 21st century, our medications don't go through more than a bare minimum of testing, and even then the lawmakers who are supposed to regulate the industry are in the back pocket of corporate lobbyists. This stuff probably won't be thoroughly tested either. However, it will be made cheaply, and genuine farm-grown meat will become a luxury product, so us little people will have two choices, eat whatever we can grow ourselves or buy whatever the military industrial complex sees fit to sell us. That is gonna go for vegetables and grains too. People kibble.

Stop making things up. You sound ridiculous.

People, people... I know it's just the fear talking, but really, try thinking for yourselves for one second and you'll know that I'm right. Unless of course, you'd rather be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

**Chongara**

WarOne wrote:
Chongara wrote:
dogma wrote:
Melissia wrote:You took a class on it... along with every single American who has at least one recent (within the past ten years) college degree, I believe.

I didn't, but that might be the result of going to a private school.

I went to a cheap-o public university, I did take a nutrition class but it wasn't mandatory. It was one of many classes you could take for a more general requirement, but it didn't have to be anything health/food science related.

This is what a public school education gets you:

I keep trying to click on the "Join Us" button in your avatar, but I all keep getting is your profile.

The button works, it just works a bit differently from what you'd normally expect. Instead of clicking it, you have to rub butter on the screen.

**KingCracker**

Does pretending Im rubbing her boobs help any? Because, my hand is getting tired with all this rubbing.

**hotsauceman1**

I just hope this doesnt go the way of GMO's In which the companies threaten anyone who does research that hurts their product.
And there better be a law that passes that says you have to label your lab grown meat as lab grown.

**Dark Scipio**

Melissia wrote:I wouldn't mind lab-grown meat. At least it's likely to have less human growth hormones in it if done properly.

This. And no more animal torture.

**KingCracker**

hotsauceman1 wrote:I just hope this doesnt go the way of GMO's In which the companies threaten anyone who does research that hurts their product.
And there better be a law that passes that says you have to label your lab grown meat as lab grown.

Im pretty sure they would. They have to with pretty much anything else food wise.

**hotsauceman1**

KingCracker wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:I just hope this doesnt go the way of GMO's In which the companies threaten anyone who does research that hurts their product.
And there better be a law that passes that says you have to label your lab grown meat as lab grown.

Im pretty sure they would. They have to with pretty much anything else food wise.

They dont wwith GMO's in america.
And before anyone else says anything about GMO"S ii want it on the record that i think they are OK, but not testing or letting us know right away that it is GMO is what i dont ike

**susejo239**

Monster Rain wrote:Not a fan of this.

I've seen pictures, and it ain't pretty. Call me a barbarian, but I prefer "real" meat.

This.....
It's a little sick when you think about for a long while...

**dogma**

warpcrafter wrote:
People, people... I know it's just the fear talking, but really, try thinking for yourselves for one second and you'll know that I'm right.

Think for yourselves! But always remember that if you don't believe the things that I believe, you aren't thinking for yourselves!

**sebster**

Bakerofish wrote:If they say that synthesized animal meat is okay for vegetarians to eat because it doesnt involve an actual animal...

does that make eating synthesized human meat not cannibalism?

Well, yeah.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warpcrafter wrote:People, people... I know it's just the fear talking, but really, try thinking for yourselves for one second and you'll know that I'm right. Unless of course, you'd rather be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

No, really, there's no fear. There's just an understanding that the real world is a complex, often frustrating place, where the exact causes of our problems and their solutions are not at all simple.

In contrast we have your comic book like world of evil conspiracies, all based on ideas that simply aren't true. We've talked about this in the past, and I've pointed out plainly and simply a whole host of ideas you've had that simply do not stack up with reality. And yet you keep on believing it.

Why bother posting here, honestly?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:They dont wwith GMO's in america.
And before anyone else says anything about GMO"S ii want it on the record that i think they are OK, but not testing or letting us know right away that it is GMO is what i dont ike

Yeah, I think GMOs are an important part of the future, but that legislation needs to be considerably improved, and that Monsanto in particular are incredible dicks.

**ifStatement**

Krellnus wrote:
Luco wrote:
ifStatement wrote:
Luco wrote:There are nutrients you can ONLY get from eating meat.

That's not true.
Yes, it is, I took a class on it. I really don't want to dig through my notes, but I can if I absolutely have to.

Here, I'll do it for you,

Wikipedia wrote:Most meats contain a full complement of the amino acids required for the human diet. Fruits and vegetables, by contrast, sometimes lack several essential amino acids contained in meat. It is for this reason that people who abstain from eating all meat need to plan their diet more carefully to include vegetarian sources of all the necessary amino acids.

Where does that say there are nutrients which are exclusive to meat?

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:Where does that say there are nutrients which are exclusive to meat?

http://www.trifuel.com/training/health-nutrition/triathlon-nutrition-vegetarianism

Are vegetarians missing out on other nutrients found only in meat?
Possibly. There are several benefits to eating meat that are limiting when adhering to a vegetarian diet. Perhaps the most concerning of all nutrients for a vegetarian triathlete is iron. Iron is an essential micronutrient that facilitates oxygen transport in the blood, which is the limiting physiological factor for aerobic performance. Insufficient amounts of iron in the blood and tissue will severely impair performance. Iron is present in two different forms: heme iron from animal tissue and non-heme iron from plant sources. Unfortunately for vegetarians, non-heme iron is much less bioavailable than heme iron. Therefore, although vegetarians and omnivores consume nearly equal amounts of total iron, the vegetarians absorb much less of it. As such, the RDA for iron for vegetarian triathletes is 80% higher than for omnivorous triathletes. Vegetarians should strive to consume oat bran, spinach, beans, or other iron-fortified foods on a regular basis.

What about vitamin B12 deficiency in vegetarians?
Vitamin B12 is only reliably found in meat, dairy and eggs. There was speculation that some fermented soy products and seaweeds contain B12, but research has proven otherwise. Although Vitamin B12 does not directly improve work performance, a deficiency in this vitamin can lead to macrocytic anemia, which will then impair aerobic performance. Triathletes who exclude all animal products from their diet require supplementation or careful diet planning to ensure they are obtaining the vitamin from fortified foods. Lacto-ovo vegetarians are less likely to develop Vitamin B12 deficiency assuming they regularly consume dairy products or eggs.

**ifStatement**

That doesn't say there are nutrients exclusive to meat either. It even says that vitamin B12 is in dairy and eggs.

All the part about iron is saying is that while iron is in both meat and plant products the heme iron in meat is absorbed much better than the non heme iron in plants.

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:That doesn't say there are nutrients exclusive to meat either. It even says that vitamin B12 is in dairy and eggs.

Which comes from a meat source.

**ifStatement**

WarOne wrote:
ifStatement wrote:That doesn't say there are nutrients exclusive to meat either. It even says that vitamin B12 is in dairy and eggs.

Which comes from a meat source.

Dairy products come from meat?

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:
WarOne wrote:
ifStatement wrote:That doesn't say there are nutrients exclusive to meat either. It even says that vitamin B12 is in dairy and eggs.

Which comes from a meat source.

Dairy products come from meat?

If you grind up a mammary gland, then yes, that becomes meat.

**ifStatement**

That's pretty tenuous.

In any case the idea that there are nutrients exclusive to meat is false. Dairy products and eggs are not meat under most people's definitions.

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:That's pretty tenuous.

In any case the idea that there are nutrients exclusive to meat is false. Dairy products and eggs are not meat under most people's definitions.

Then how about a less restrictive definition?

Vitamin B12 can only be found in meat and animal derived food sources. No plants.

**ifStatement**

WarOne wrote:
ifStatement wrote:That's pretty tenuous.

In any case the idea that there are nutrients exclusive to meat is false. Dairy products and eggs are not meat under most people's definitions.

Then how about a less restrictive definition?

Vitamin B12 can only be found in meat and animal derived food sources. No plants.

I was only refuting this:

Luco wrote:There are nutrients you can ONLY get from eating meat.

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:
WarOne wrote:
ifStatement wrote:That's pretty tenuous.

In any case the idea that there are nutrients exclusive to meat is false. Dairy products and eggs are not meat under most people's definitions.

Then how about a less restrictive definition?

Vitamin B12 can only be found in meat and animal derived food sources. No plants.

I was only refuting this:

Luco wrote:There are nutrients you can ONLY get from eating meat.

So would it be fair to say that if we put the meat in a blender, ground it up, and then drank it, that would also refute his statement as well?

**ifStatement**

What are you talking about?

Luco didn't qaulify his statement by saying meat and meat derived sources. He said: "There are nutrients you can ONLY get from eating meat." Which is waht i said was untrue.

If the statement is broadened to meat and meat derived products it's obviously true. Milk for example contains a number of unique nutrients.

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:What are you talking about?

Luco didn't qaulify his statement by saying meat and meat derived sources. He said: "There are nutrients you can ONLY get from eating meat." Which is waht i said was untrue.

If the statement is broadened to meat and meat derived products it's obviously true. Milk for example contains a number of unique nutrients.

I mean turning meat into a liquid. Then drinking it. Drinking and eating are two mutually exclusive activities and therefore would also refute his statement because you can also drink meat in order to obtain nutrients. not just eat it.

**ifStatement**

Well yes.

If the point you're trying to make is that his statement was implicit therefore you can attach the "meat derived products" definition to it then fair enough. I don't refute the statement.

However I would argue that his statement wasn't implicit and not covering both bases of eating and drinking can be excluded due to the fact that most people don't drink puréed meat. Although each to their own.

**biccat**

ifStatement wrote:In any case the idea that there are nutrients exclusive to meat is false. Dairy products and eggs are not meat under most people's definitions.

I always find it strange that vegetarians don't consider eggs "meat."

**WarOne**

ifStatement wrote:

However I would argue that his statement wasn't implicit and not covering both bases of eating and drinking can be excluded due to the fact that most people don't drink puréed meat. Although each to their own.

You'd be surprised at what is inside baby food nowadays.

**ifStatement**

You know if you really want to go to town on the whole 'what you can and can't define as meat' thing, you could argue that vegetables are meat as much of the soil they are grown in is fertilised using cow gak. It would be a much more efficient way of derailing an argument into a futile debate over definition.

**KingCracker**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
KingCracker wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:I just hope this doesnt go the way of GMO's In which the companies threaten anyone who does research that hurts their product.
And there better be a law that passes that says you have to label your lab grown meat as lab grown.

Im pretty sure they would. They have to with pretty much anything else food wise.

They dont wwith GMO's in america.
And before anyone else says anything about GMO"S ii want it on the record that i think they are OK, but not testing or letting us know right away that it is GMO is what i dont ike

Excuse my ignorance, but GMO?