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Monster Rain wrote:Flavor in meat, well, quality meat, comes from connective tissue.

They'll have to find a way to exercise the vat grown steaks to make them comparable to the real deal.

Ah... no, flavor in meat comes from fat. Intramuscular fat, also known as marbling. Fat=Flavor and also tenderness; that's why incredibly lean meat is tough, chewy, and flavorless.

Connective tissue is virtually inedible. Tendons, ligaments, basically horrible stuff that you don't actually want to eat and pay your food providers to trim out of your meat.

And a circulatory system to deliver the nutrients to the right places...

Though if you found a way to supply the needed nutrients and electrically stimulated it to induce muscle spasms you could exercise it.

sourclams wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Flavor in meat, well, quality meat, comes from connective tissue.

They'll have to find a way to exercise the vat grown steaks to make them comparable to the real deal.

Ah... no, flavor in meat comes from fat. Intramuscular fat, also known as marbling. Fat=Flavor and also tenderness; that's why incredibly lean meat is tough, chewy, and flavorless.

Connective tissue is virtually inedible. Tendons, ligaments, basically horrible stuff that you don't actually want to eat and pay your food providers to trim out of your meat.

Ah... no.

I'm talking about collagen, the stuff that makes the tougher cuts (short ribs, oxtails, etc) taste better, but require longer cooking times and moist-heat cooking methods to break down. Intramuscular fat is obviously a factor in flavor, but not the only one.

warpcrafter wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Anything like this will go through a lot of testing before reaching the marketplace so I think it will be 'safe', though the quality may be questionable. But that's true of all McDonalds' "food".

I don't think many vegetarians will turn around because of this though. For a start you still need animals kept in captivity and many don't agree with the conditions of farming. There's also the chemical content, I avoid cheap meat because of hormones, but I'm quite a keen meat eater all the same. But I wouldn't eat lab produced meat is the chemical content was dubious (even if legal). Also quite a few are vegetarian as a matter of personal taste preference.

This is the 21st century, our medications don't go through more than a bare minimum of testing, and even then the lawmakers who are supposed to regulate the industry are in the back pocket of corporate lobbyists. This stuff probably won't be thoroughly tested either. However, it will be made cheaply, and genuine farm-grown meat will become a luxury product, so us little people will have two choices, eat whatever we can grow ourselves or buy whatever the military industrial complex sees fit to sell us. That is gonna go for vegetables and grains too. People kibble.

Ive gotta ask, because Id like to know, you DO realize your sound completely fething nuts right? Whats it feel like to be so fruity?

Sorry, but no, collagen has flavor (it's essentially gelatin), but if collagen = flavor then muscle meat would be flavorless.

The majority of flavor in meat is from fat.

I'd go further into why you're wrong, but I've gotta run.

Basically, the tougher cuts of meat that generally taste better (the ones I mentioned above) have higher concentrations of collagen.

Guy, you're wrong. As an easy, common-sense litmus test, what do gummy bears, marshmallows, and jell-O taste like?

Meat? If collagen had innate meat-flavory goodness, then gelatin (which has non-animal sources but historically has been made from animal byproducts) would taste like beef. Or pork, or chicken.

Collagen is gelatin. Gelatin is virtually flavorless.

The tougher cuts of meat have lower concentrations of fat. That's why they're prone to becoming dry and tasteless. That's why beef brisket is served in some sort of acidic sauce, and why a USDA prime tenderloin hardly ever is.

A second common-sense test: Does bacon have flavor? Bacon, made from the pork belly, has no connective tissue.

Yeah, what do I know? I have no formal education on the subject, after all.

Bacon flavor is mainly from curing and smoking BTW.

Pork belly has quite a bit of flavour too.

Also collagen is not gelatin, that's like saying bread is toast.

corpsesarefun wrote:Pork belly has quite a bit of flavour too.

Also collagen is not gelatin, that's like saying bread is toast.

And bagels are the devil!

Interesting, all the better to feed that larger population I keep hammering away about I am curious about the quality, perhaps we'll be able to get higher quality beef and steak for cheap. That would be very nice.

People have been genectically engineering food for centuries why stop now

I wouldn't mind eating one so longs as its taste as good as a normal patty or better and isnt got hormones in it.

I guess vegetarians can eat meat now

I'm sort of on the fence about this, I suppose it'd be safe but I'm slightly skeptical; no real reason to it just am.

Monster Rain wrote:Yeah, what do I know? I have no formal education on the subject, after all.

Still waiting for Bacon Squeeze to be socially acceptable

Squeez Bacon sounds like a very bad idea.

Chowderhead wrote:Squeez Bacon sounds like a very bad [AWESOME] idea.

Fixed that for you!

All I know is that Veal (Baby cows) tastes great because we do not let them move around so they can not build much muscle and it is more tender.

fething scientists. They'll try and get anyone to swallow any kind of gak just to keep looking like they're actually smarter than people with real common sense.

Me? If it don't Oink, Cackle or Moo I don't eat it. If your mom raised you with even an once of sense, you'll think the same.

DeathReaper wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:Squeez Bacon sounds like a very bad [AWESOME] idea.

Fixed that for you!

All I know is that Veal (Baby cows) tastes great because we do not let them move around so they can not build much mussle and it is more tender.

Well, you're right that not moving around keeps the meat tender.

warpcrafter wrote:This is the 21st century, our medications don't go through more than a bare minimum of testing, and even then the lawmakers who are supposed to regulate the industry are in the back pocket of corporate lobbyists. This stuff probably won't be thoroughly tested either. However, it will be made cheaply, and genuine farm-grown meat will become a luxury product, so us little people will have two choices, eat whatever we can grow ourselves or buy whatever the military industrial complex sees fit to sell us. That is gonna go for vegetables and grains too. People kibble.

Stop making things up. You sound ridiculous.


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Monster Rain wrote:Flavor in meat, well, quality meat, comes from connective tissue.

They'll have to find a way to exercise the vat grown steaks to make them comparable to the real deal.

Or, given enough time, they'll just find a way to artificially generate connective tissue and whatever else.

Expect this stuff to taste like McDonalds' meat for a long time, and slowly works it way up as the technology improves.

Sweet, sweet bioethics, how I miss thee.

How do I feel about lab meat?

*Burp.*

No matter how meat is produced it's still far less efficient than vegetation at providing calories/protein for inputted energy/water.

But more efficient for other nutrients.

And deliciousness.

Joey wrote:No matter how meat is produced it's still far less efficient than vegetation at providing calories/protein for inputted energy/water.

Ultimately meat is just a higher concentration of nutrients in a different package.

Meat and animal byproducts (like honey) are basically nature's equivalent of the Energy Bar. In terms of efficiency, it's far more efficient to let something go through the trouble of eating thousands of pounds of vegetables and converting that to meat and fat stores, and then eating that thing.


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Monster Rain wrote:Bacon flavor is mainly from curing and smoking BTW.

Which is absorbed into the... wait for it... fat. Adipose tissue is basically nature's warehouse for flavor. If connective tissue was the source of flavor, then we'd be dining on rawhide and tendons instead of making shoes and car seats with it.

I actually had a lecture on cell biomechanics today which featured this story - it is not new; as far back as 2003 (from what I remember) there was an American who set out to grow "artificial" tissue for the use in burgers.

The entertaining part is that the medium they are grown in is often serum harvested from cows.

Personally I don't think this technique will ever be a viable method of "growing" meat products. Far easier to make meat substitutes and/or reconstitute "meat" grown in other ways.

Ultimately the further away from "nature" you go in your food production, the easier it is for people to hold food over people's heads; to disrupt or threaten to disrupt complex artificial food chains and/or add in more "additives" than you might wish or expect.

Though I am a believer that many algae based food production methods could go a long way to providing high density, high volume food production.


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sebster wrote:Or, given enough time, they'll just find a way to artificially generate connective tissue and whatever else.

The cells are actually grown on/in a collagen scaffold, which is essentially connective tissue. And cells also put down their own extracellular matrix, especially when grown under stress.

sourclams wrote:Which is absorbed into the... wait for it... fat. Adipose tissue is basically nature's warehouse for flavor. If connective tissue was the source of flavor, then we'd be dining on rawhide and tendons instead of making shoes and car seats with it.

Let's see...

The smoke actually mainly absorbed into the pellicle that develops in during the curing process, and the brine makes the meat itself salty (not the fat specifically) by entering the cells through osmosis.

You also don't seem to realize the difference between collagen (the connective tissue within the muscle itself) and elastin (the silverskin stuff that you really can't eat unless you cook the hell out of it with moist/combination coking methods or grind it up with the rest of the meat to add... wait for it... flavor.)

I like how you're being condescending even though you're extremely wrong. Oh internet...

I like how you're actually still arguing that skin, tendon, and ligaments are what "flavor" is made of.

sourclams wrote:I like how you're actually still arguing that skin, tendon, and ligaments are what "flavor" is made of.

I said it's a factor, which it is.

I also never mentioned skin. Putting words in my mouth isn't making you any more correct.

See the above post for more information on this. Before I act on the decision I just made to simply let you be wrong, you seem to be getting hung up on the USDA's grading system as your basis for your arguments, which only monitors marbling and tenderness, not flavor.