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Avakael wrote:Went to the GW at Rundle Mall, Adelaide, the staff insisted that finecast was a non issue hyped up by the internet and only two people total had either come in to get a replacement from the internet or needed a replacement on the spot since it came out. Apparently, Wayland Games refusing to stock Finecast (citation needed on that) is an "unreliable and biased source", purely because it's on the internet. I'm... kind of over this crap. I wonder if they'll admit this policy exists if I go in there next week?

They appear to be stocking Finecast now, though with an amusing disclaimer:

Wayland Games wrote:Note: If you wish to purchase any Finecast products please accept that this is a product for experienced modellers only and that some remedial effort is required due to the nature of the material and manufacturing techniques. If in doubt please do not purchase.

However, they refused to stock the initial batch, posting this:

Wayland Games wrote:We regret that we are not presently retailing the Citadel Finecast range.

Unfortunately, a randomly sampled assessment revealed what we feel to be an excessive level of actual and potential flaws that, if reflected across our entire stock of Finecast, could have resulted in unacceptable inconvenience to our customers. Although we will be returning our present stockholding to the manufacturer, please be assured that we remain committed to carrying the Finecast line and will be restocking in due course.

For your information, we sampled and then assessed 60 sealed blisters with 30 taken at random from each of two deliveries of stock. Failures were 17 (57%) of 30 and 16 (53%) of 30, making 33 (55%) of 60 in total. While failure doesn’t necessarily denote the blister content as being of less than merchantable quality, for our purposes it does categorise it as having a visible flaw that might be of sufficient concern to a customer such that the item might be returned. Details and images were provided to the manufacturer, with redacted copies of the images appearing below.

Please note, the blisters remain sealed and so images were taken through the product packaging.

One of the failures was due to some form of hair being included in the blister, as I recall - if you do a search of News & Rumours for Wayland Games and Finecast, you should find the post on here with the details (and pictures) in.

Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).


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Agamemnon2 wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:Changing someones action by causing fear or worry is scaremongery,by claiming an email exists without proof about the quality of a release could change peoples mind on the purchases because they worry about the quality.

This is in no way "causing fear". Spreading news of a bomb on the Underground, that's "causing fear". This rumor, at its worst, only amounts to spreading misinformation that might affect a few people's hobby spending habits in the immediate future. Your words are willfully escalating the situation by claiming effects far in excess of what is in evidence.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Topic is finecast not the definition of english words,if it helps i was using artistic licence or over exagerating to make a point,but its the point that is important not what you think scaremongery means

swordwind99 wrote:Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).

Yes yes we know internet is bad and Online retailers freeloaders we have heard that BS before sir...

Promoted to the ignore list in only 27 posts, most impressive.

swordwind99 wrote:There are far more satisfied finecast customers than unsatisfied,the sheep nature of the forums means however people are unfairly convinced the medium is terrible. Resin has its limitations regardless of the manufacture but GW have to be dragged over the coals for everything they do while other companies enjoy the keys to the forum city

I'd watch out with language like that kid, especially on this forum, you might as well have said you approve of gay marriage in the Deep South of America. What you said may be true, but until FC gets its act together, the people who dislike it will vastly outnumber those who just accept an inferior model and fix it. Me? I've only bought one, Inquisitor Corteaz, and he's all kinds of perfect, but my brother bought a Lord Commissar and it looked like it's been dropped in a vat of acid. That's a 50/50 win ratio for my family, now, by no means is that representative of all FC purchases, but it's still pretty terrible for 'the best models evarrrrr'.

People need to learn what a 'troll' actually is. It's someone who posts things just to rile up/get a reaction from other people. It's like a form of malicious devil's advocate in a lot of ways.

So unless we can prove that swordwind99 is saying what he is saying out of a desire to cause trouble, then we cannot call him a troll. Thusly, lacking said evidence to prove such a claim, all we can do is call him clueless or, at best, ignorant to the very real and very well documented problems with Finecost, problems that no amount of ad hominems, white knighting and wishful thinking will suddenly make disappear overnight.

Just look at the fething pictures people have been posting of the Ltd. Ed. 25th Marine. It's awful!!!

A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

I've bought a total of 11 FC models all but one online and all of them were totally fine. It's very nice to see all the detail that gets left behind by metal casting.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online

Please, tell another!


He went through ten alone: http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

But you're right, everyone else is getting perfect models. These people are just wanting to incite riots!


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SlaveToDorkness wrote:
all of them were totally fine.

They were "fine", or they were the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modelling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this.?

I've bought Finecast models that were fine but don't kid yourself about the flaws being exaggerated. By far the majority of my Finecast purchases needed to have parts (in some cases the whole thing) replaced for some reason or another. I swear GW stores have a metric ton of Finecast that are stop-lossed as customer replacements. Also, almost half of the 25th Anniversary figures I purchased have some bit or another that I need to ship back to GW for replacement. That is NOT "totally fine".

You dont understand Puma they were only FINE not CASTed... and I agree! The miniatures are FINE for the most part... just not well casted

NAVARRO wrote:You dont understand Puma they were only FINE not CASTed... and I agree! The miniatures are FINE for the most part... just not well casted

Well, they may not be "well" casted, but they're quite certainly casted. So long as they're fine, the name fits in the most cynical way.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

swordwind99 wrote:Topic is finecast not the definition of english words,if it helps i was using artistic licence or over exagerating to make a point,but its the point that is important not what you think scaremongery means

Artistic license can scarcely be considered apply on a forum that's supposed to be about real, factual information. Unless the concept of the truth has no bearing on your posts at all, good sir.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

I'd like to see these pictures of perfect casts as well. Not that I don't believe you, so much as I haven't and I'm curious.

You say that the vast majority of players haven't had issues. Unless you've got someone sitting outside ever single GWS in the world polling people as they leave, you have absolutely no idea if that's true. You appear to have mostly gotten good products, and that's good, but it's anecdotal evidence. I've gotten 2 finecast models + 1 replacement, and all had some significant issues (one was utterly unusable). I guess I could use my own anecdotal evidence to say that 100% of finecast models are messed up, but that would be a foolish extrapolation to make.

Since we don't have the previously mentioned polling going, all we have are a collection of forum-goers with their own anecdotal evidence, and how trustworthy those specific people are. If you filter out the extreme opinions - both the people who clearly dislike GWS and slam them at every opportunity, and their counterparts who defend GWS no matter the situation - we still have a rather decent sized consensus of players with long posting histories here, good reputations, no real agenda, who both praise and penalize GWS depending, who have posted they are getting unusable models.

The email seems real, and atop that, reasonable - there may be some bad models going out, so check them, and take care of your customers. Doesn't that seem... not quite hyperbolic enough for a fake email? Wouldn't a fake include some juicy flamebait material to really stoke the drama, along the lines of "limiting returns", or store credit only, or some such?

The bottom line is that the stores are directed to make sure their customers are happy, and to try and fix what is easily fixable if the customer is amenable to it. A reasonable message from a respected poster. I don't see this either as fake, or really a big deal. If anything, it's a good thing stores are aware that some models may have QC issues and encourage customers to check them before they do.

carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106667

swordwind99 wrote:

carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DI6Ckm_0u_Do&v=I6Ckm_0u_Do&gl=GB

Sweet! Siberian Huskies!

swordwind99 wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DI6Ckm_0u_Do&v=I6Ckm_0u_Do&gl=GB

Did you even look at what you linked?

Vijay Kumar: Robots that fly ... and cooperate

Bruno - Number One

Movies In Minutes - Chronicle

Prometheus - Peter Weyland TED 2023 [OFFICIAL CLIP] - HD -


SO far you have nothing. YOU SAID you saw pictures on other forums. What forums? Where? Dont be going to youtube. Back your opinion up.

That link is not working for me, it's bringing up 4 random videos.

This is funny in a wrong messed up way

He should send his Youtube link back to Youtube for a replacement.

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

A few?

'callin BS on that my now ignored friend.

Even GW has admited their are problems and you continue to defend them?

Sir, I believe you are a troll.

Ouze wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Loads of people buy the stuff day in and day out without issue some people have had glaring problems,personally i have had almost all good with the exception of a bubble or two that was easy ti fill,certainly no worse or bettet than other manufacures or FW and a damn site better to work with than metal

I'd like to see these pictures of perfect casts as well. Not that I don't believe you, so much as I haven't and I'm curious.

You say that the vast majority of players haven't had issues. Unless you've got someone sitting outside ever single GWS in the world polling people as they leave, you have absolutely no idea if that's true. You appear to have mostly gotten good products, and that's good, but it's anecdotal evidence. I've gotten 2 finecast models + 1 replacement, and all had some significant issues (one was utterly unusable). I guess I could use my own anecdotal evidence to say that 100% of finecast models are messed up, but that would be a foolish extrapolation to make.

Since we don't have the previously mentioned polling going, all we have are a collection of forum-goers with their own anecdotal evidence, and how trustworthy those specific people are. If you filter out the extreme opinions - both the people who clearly dislike GWS and slam them at every opportunity, and their counterparts who defend GWS no matter the situation - we still have a rather decent sized consensus of players with long posting histories here, good reputations, no real agenda, who both praise and penalize GWS depending, who have posted they are getting unusable models.

The email seems real, and atop that, reasonable - there may be some bad models going out, so check them, and take care of your customers. Doesn't that seem... not quite hyperbolic enough for a fake email? Wouldn't a fake include some juicy flamebait material to really stoke the drama, along the lines of "limiting returns", or store credit only, or some such?

The bottom line is that the stores are directed to make sure their customers are happy, and to try and fix what is easily fixable if the customer is amenable to it. A reasonable message from a respected poster. I don't see this either as fake, or really a big deal. If anything, it's a good thing stores are aware that some models may have QC issues and encourage customers to check them before they do.

This.....

+1

swordwind99 wrote:
http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106667

Yeah. . take a look at that Power Fist! Flawless!





And the belt buckle. . and the grenade. . .and the banner. Actually, these pictures don't help your case much at all.

Possibly a silly question, but - should we be able to see the table surface through the power fist?

swordwind99 wrote:

carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:A few photos online speaks for a tiny minority of a batch i have seen photos posted on other forums of perfect quality of that model infact some guy did a live you tube unboxing of it and the model is mint A1,im not claiming people have not had issues im saying it isnt as bad as people bleet on the net and people shouldnt be put off by the herd who say it is.

Links or you're lying. As the old saying goes, put up or you know the rest........

We've seen 25th anniversary ones here. Show us the perfedct ones unboxed on other fourms with links.

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106667

Only had a quick glance at that video but already spotted mould slip on the back of the right leg greave and a casting void in the back of the left shoulder pad.

Well, I bought Draigo at GW Hamburg I recently. The redshirt opened the blister and looked at it thoroughly to see if it had a flaw. No flaw there.

Dysartes wrote:Possibly a silly question, but - should we be able to see the table surface through the power fist?

Truly the mark of a flawless model.

wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please

Really? I'm hard to please by wanting a model that doesn't have gaping holes that I have to sculpt, pockmarks that I have to fill in and areas that I can see through? Not only that, but I want those things at a premium price? How dare I!

Don't come into this forum calling everyone else sheep when you're the one that is blindly following GW, spending your money (or your parent's money?) on their poorly-casted products, then preaching that everyone else is wrong when all the evidence points to the contrary.