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swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

When I pay 35 quid, I expect my model to not be full of holes and gaps, misshapen parts and broken parts.

I expect it to be of excellent quality.

Your argument has been shot down, I suggest you re-think what your posting, especially when your argument is beaten every time you try to use it.

Welcome to Dakkadaka Swordwind...

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

Well, if you want to play that card, I do have two painting contest wins to my name, for my diorama work.

Wow calm down. You cant get annoyed when you defend your flimsy case with the pictures of a "Flawless" Model. People Will. Call your bluff on that, and if they find it different, will declare bs on it. Dont get annoyed because you had a poor argument.

swordwind99 wrote:Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).

OK, this is the point at which your argument loses credibility. Somewhere in this sentence, in amongst the car-wreckage of grammar and spelling, you are trying to imply that Wayland would stop selling it's most popular lines because it harboured a grudge? I feel a good dose of common sense is needed at this point.

Unfortunately, such a statement destroys the credibility of any other arguments you may care to make. Please go on, continuing to shout from the rooftops. I will answer each point you make with the word "fish". Because, such senseless arguments deserve no better a reply.

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

Not winning any friends here running verbal diarrhoea like that buddy. I'm guessing you're saying I should get on my knees and be thankful for those extra holes and gaps in my models, meaning less resin spent on this model and one more resin model for someone else? I should also be grateful for the bent parts, which have been "pre-converted" by GW to make it easier for me to do my own stuff?

When I pay a feth-load of money for a model that is advertised as the best, I expect the best, not this hubris. It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for. Get with the program lamb.

2 Golden Demons and a case full of Best Armies


No Finecast issues.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:2 Golden Demons

Wow, Keith you have 2 Golden Daemons? Didn't know that. Awesome

BrookM wrote: It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for.

Nonsense.

The statement is entirely subjective. I think I got a good deal when I get ten space marines off ebay for three quid, my missus thinks I got ripped off.

Your "right" as a customer is that of choice. You either buy something or you don't, that's your decision.

I personally wont buy any Finecast models at the moment because an unusually high percentage of their models are flawed, thats my decision. Three days ago I ordered a Scibor mini for my TDA libby instead of the finecast one due to me using Wayland Games and I'm too lazy to send it back and mess around if it happens to arrive heavily flawed, but it has cost me £5.17 more (17.50 instead of the GW Librarian at 12.33)

If I got a well made FC TDA librarian model for my money, I personally would be very happy with it.

blood reaper wrote:
Your argument has been shot down, I suggest you re-think what your posting, especially when your argument is beaten every time you try to use it.

His argument has clearly not been shot down to anyone who is being remotely impartial.

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it,

Primer and paint dont fill in holes.

No people arent hard to please. We just think that if we're going to pay porche prices, we should get a porche product, not a used car,

are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything

Some might be, Not me. Its not 10 times the size, but nice try.

, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

People are fairly easy going here. Except when it comes to liars and trolls who make unsupported claims, and then cant back them up.

SO again, what forums did you see those flawless anniversary models? Whats the link?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:2 Golden Demons and a case full of Best Armies


No Finecast issues.

Lucky. As I said, If I was guaranteed a good model I would have prefered the GW Librarian to the Scibor one cos It was a fiver cheaper. But I'm too lazy to mess around in case I get a shagged one.


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carmachu wrote:

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it,

No people arent hard to please. We just think that if we're going to pay porche prices, we should get a porche product, not a used car,

Awful analogy. The GW model I was going to buy was £5.17 cheaper than the Scibor one Ive ended up buying.

Are Scibor products Rolls Royce prices?

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

That model costs $33 and it's a limited edition. Personally I don't think anyone complaining about it is "hard to please" and is instead expecting to get what they fething paid for.

I got a close up look at the 25th Anniversary Space Marine and damn was that a sweet model.

Not a bubble on it as I could tell.

/anecdotal evidence.

Matty, the scibor stuff is in no way as detailed as the GW stuff. I'm continually amazed at the prices he charges.

mattyrm wrote:

BrookM wrote: It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for.

Nonsense.

The statement is entirely subjective. I think I got a good deal when I get ten space marines off ebay for three quid, my missus thinks I got ripped off.

Your "right" as a customer is that of choice. You either buy something or you don't, that's your decision.

I personally wont buy any Finecast models at the moment because an unusually high percentage of their models are flawed, thats my decision. Three days ago I ordered a Scibor mini for my TDA libby instead of the finecast one due to me using Wayland Games and I'm too lazy to send it back and mess around if it happens to arrive heavily flawed, but it has cost me £5.17 more (17.50 instead of the GW Librarian at 12.33)

If I got a well made FC TDA librarian model for my money, I personally would be very happy with it.

blood reaper wrote:
Your argument has been shot down, I suggest you re-think what your posting, especially when your argument is beaten every time you try to use it.

His argument has clearly not been shot down to anyone who is being remotely impartial.

When a majority has proved his statements to be almost completley wrong and in the edge of trolling, I think his argument has been shot down.

mattyrm wrote:

BrookM wrote: It is our right as a customer to get what we pay for.

Nonsense.

So, if someone says, "Here is a sandwich with bacon, lettuce and tomato." and you open it up and it is hamburger, cheese and onions, you don't think you have a "right" as a paying customer to expect to receive exactly what you're sold?

I disagree. "Buyer beware" is a true enough warning, but there has to be some corporate responsibility, otherwise you get the issues that we're getting with Finecast. People are buying it, with the flaws and asking for replacements. Then, they go do the same thing again, so why should GW change? Because they owe their customers what they told them they would give them.

If you bought an Xbox game and brought it home and it had a PS2 game in it, you would take it back. If it happened 10 more times, you'd start to wonder about their responsibility to you to provide you with an Xbox game rather than a PS2 game.

mattyrm wrote:Awful analogy. The GW model I was going to buy was £5.17 cheaper than the Scibor one Ive ended up buying.

Are Scibor products Rolls Royce prices?

I'm not sure what your point is. GW have compared themselves to companies like Porsche, comparing their product to theirs in quality, and aren't delivering. That you can find another product of higher quality that costs more than what GW's selling is pretty pointless in my opinion. I'm sure there are other automobile manufacturers that sell cars for even higher prices than Porsche (I don't know much about this since not being a millionaire I've never seriously looked into it), but that doesn't mean that we can suddenly excuse Porsche for selling a product that isn't up to their usual standards, does it?

Or maybe it does, if the concept of getting what you pay for is "nonsense" to you.

mattyrm wrote:
His argument has clearly not been shot down to anyone who is being remotely impartial.

Really? He clearly stated that he saw some LD model pictures on other forums. When asked, he linked to some screwed up youtube items that had no bearing.

His arguement was shot down. And somehow I dont think your remotely impartial.

Call me crazy but I got the same feeling. We're all apparently "overreacting", and despite the fact that he himself has stated multiple times he won't buy it because he's not satisfied with the quality, apparently those of us who ARE buying it and also aren't satisfied are expecting too much, acting entitled, and whatever other bs GW white knights spew out to make the point that we're all whiny, crying children for expecting a ridiculously expensive product to have some kind of quality control to ensure you get something that doesn't belong in the fething garbage.

Sidstyler wrote:[ excuse Porsche for selling a product that isn't up to their usual standards, does it?

It goes deeper than that, way deeper, for the most part all resin, plastic and metal casters in this industry DO NOT consistently sell miscasts.

carmachu wrote:

His arguement was shot down. And somehow I dont think your remotely impartial.

I havent bought a single finecast model and I wont as long as the current issues remain.

Explain to me then why I'm not impartial?

Because you're giving nothing but gak to people who have and weren't satisfied, going as far as suggesting that we aren't entitled to the basic consumer rights that we're supposed to have. Expecting a product to live up to the industry standards or hell, the standard that a company themselves managed to achieve years prior, is "nonsense".

My experience with finecast is basically ok, but what bugs me is the idea that tiny flaws (i.e. the small bubbles you see in any finecast model) are acceptable.

Also, unbending swords, staffs etc, so they stay unbent is a major pain in the bum and I've yet to achieve it to my satisfaction. Even with the hot water / hair dryer approach, they also bend back to the starting position after a few hours.

For these two reasons, I've given up with finecast. I have never encountered a major miscast though...

mattyrm wrote:

I havent bought a single finecast model and I wont as long as the current issues remain.

Explain to me then why I'm not impartial?

The facts of the matter dont bear you out. So what that you dont buy any. Your excusing swordwind, when the facts in the matter dont bear out on the matter. He didnt show what he claimed. Yet you claimed the facts where there if one was impartial on the matter.

Shows your not, not that the other person was.

Sidstyler wrote:Call me crazy but I got the same feeling. We're all apparently "overreacting", and despite the fact that he himself has stated multiple times he won't buy it because he's not satisfied with the quality, apparently those of us who ARE buying it and also aren't satisfied are expecting too much, acting entitled, and whatever other bs GW white knights spew out to make the point that we're all whiny, crying children for expecting a ridiculously expensive product to have some kind of quality control to ensure you get something that doesn't belong in the fething garbage.

The above post illustrates the point I am making. Whats with all the rage? Is it because you take your hobby far too seriously and your filled with hate because the leader in the field charges alot for their models and this upsets you?

I merely have a passing interest in the hobby, I play maybe once or twice every few months and paint 2 or 3 hours a week. I'm firmly in the middle ground.

As a result I care little for GW as a corporate entity, and at the same time, I find grown men raging because "boo hoo GW are expensive and I cant afford to buy 8 landraiders" laughable to the extreme as well. The point I was clearly making was that if a model has a few tiny flaws, its a normal model. And people at the other end of the spectrum to "white knights" (not a term I heard before dakka) are being ridiculously fussy and mocking people who say "my model is decent it only has two tiny holes in so Im keeping it". And this mockery is unfair, laughable and childish.

All models have some small flaws, you fix them, they are made by pouring liquids into molds, not by flawless magic. You are asking for a higher standard with finecast than you are from all your other models. If you wouldn't spew hate and demand to change your plastic AOBR dread or AOW beserkers thanks to two minuscule holes, then why are you doing so with Finecast?

Not that the three or four detractors of mine are reading any of my posts fully. Your basically doing the old "slippery slope" argument that I see so often in the OT forum.

What!? You think abortion should be legal!? Oh that means you want to rape babies then! I mean.. Jesus.. what the hell was that burger analogy all about?!

Our Golden Demon winner gets it. I wont buy FC, I have no intention of doing so because I'm too lazy to return the model if its fethed, so I buy alternatives, but that doesn't mean I will come on here and rip the piss/personally attack someone who gets a FC model with a mildly warped finger and decides he wants to keep it and fix the issue himself. That is his business.

Seriously, ill give you lads some news. Most people see things my way because most people don't fall into the category of polar opposites you have created with regards to Games Workshop. I have a healthy relationship with the hobby, and so do the majority of people. Dakka has some ridiculous "white knights" that think GW are like their benevolent all loving parents who can never do any wrong, and it also has plenty of "dark detractors" that seem to have a bizarre irrational hatred for the product.

Here I have earned the ire of several of the latter, and I'm more happy to debate the point with you, because im not a GW fanboy, and If you bothered to read my posts all the way through you would see I am also ignoring finecast! I'm simply sticking up the little guys on here who are saying they are happy with their FC models, because I dont like to see them be verbally abused by some ill tempered modelling fanatics with bad attitudes.






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carmachu wrote:

The facts of the matter dont bear you out.

Some FC models are proper fethed, some aren't. What facts don't bear me out?

Actually if you read this topic carefully it's the exact opposite, those same Little fellas you are referring to are the ones making all kinds of accusations... in fact you also seem very fast on calling people childish more than a few times in different threads... not that I care much just saying if it disturbs you so much the verbal abuse maybe just maybe you should look at it from all perspectives

NAVARRO wrote:Actually if you read this topic carefully it's the exact opposite, those same Little fellas you are referring to are the ones making all kinds of accusations... in fact you also seem very fast on calling people childish more than a few times in different threads... not that I care much just saying if it disturbs you so much the verbal abuse maybe just maybe you should look at it from all perspectives

Yes, and if you read my initial quote I'm simply saying that it appears that people are holding FC stuff to a higher standard than everything else. Thats it.

The conversation has rapidly escalated from its humble beginnings.

Honestly, the haters are all over me like a rash.. I try to play devils advocate for a second and you lot think I've got one hand on my keyboard and the other on Matt Wards ball bag.

I hold Finecast to the same standard as GW plastics and the metals they replaced, and the standard that other, smaller companies than them with less money have managed to achieve with their own resins. GW fails on all accounts.

And this somehow makes me an overreacting rager with a hatedick for GW who takes the hobby way too seriously blah blah what the feth ever.

mattyrm wrote:
All models have some small flaws, you fix them, they are made by pouring liquids into molds, not by flawless magic.

I have yet to find these sorts of flaws in the plastic models that I get. They don't have pieces missing off of their bodes, holes where fingers should be or misshapen heads. If they did, I would be complaining about them too.

mattrym wrote: You are asking for a higher standard with finecast than you are from all your other models.

Apparently you haven't read about Finecast:

"Our Citadel Finecast models are the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modelling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this."

What does that say to you? Does that indicate that Finecast should be held at a higher standard than all the other models? The price sure suggest so.

mattrym wrote:

What!? You think abortion should be legal!? Oh that means you want to rape babies then! I mean.. Jesus.. what the hell was that burger analogy all about?!

It was about getting what you pay for. What you consider "nonsense." Of course, you didn't answer the analogy. You simply dodged it.

mattrym wrote:Our Golden Demon winner gets it. I wont buy FC, I have no intention of doing so because I'm too lazy to return the model if its fethed, so I buy alternatives, but that doesn't mean I will come on here and rip the piss/personally attack someone who gets a FC model with a mildly warped finger

These sorts of statements are what's getting you put into the "white knight" category. This is hyperbolic. You know damn well that this is more than "a mildly warped finger". Obviously, you haven't been keeping up with the state of a lot of these models. Here's another Golden Daemon winner that maybe you should read up on: http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

mattyrm wrote:. I'm simply sticking up the little guys on here who are saying they are happy with their FC models, because I dont like to see them be verbally abused by some ill tempered

Aww, that's sweet of you. Unfortunately, none of the "little guys" have been berated because they are happy with their purchases. If you could quote someone that said, "I like Finecast." and then someone detracting them, then I'd like to see it. swordwind did not do that, however. He started spouting about how great Finecast was, how Finecast was perfect and that all the internet rage is overblown hype meant to bring GW down. Then, he goes on to show an example of his "perfect model" and it is anything but. Someone like that will get berated, and doesn't need anyone sticking up for them.


For the record, SlavetoDorkness, Breotan and wuestenfux all commented on how they are happy or "fine" with their purchases and none of them drew any ire.

@Mattrym Well I would be happy if fine cast was just on the same level as anything else! Unfortunately its many levels bellow to the point of being out of my hobby. I'm not a hater or a lover and don't be fooled in thinking I have any grudge towards you or any company, but if someone new to the forum enters saying we are sheep or forum community blind etc well its going to raise some comments.

And thats the thing isn't it? I mean if you just want a miniature to paint from GW you either buy plastic or hunt for metal on ebay... because fine cast is not an option anymore and with so many new release and FINE models being exclusively released just in finecast you can understand some of us are not happy... oh and if you have a incomplete army and decided NOT to get FC then its all new deal of frustration...

Again means nothing to me if GW identifies the fiasco if it doesn't do anything about it.