GW admits issues with Finecast products released this weekend....

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**mattyrm**

puma713 wrote:
mattyrm wrote:
All models have some small flaws, you fix them, they are made by pouring liquids into molds, not by flawless magic.

I have yet to find these sorts of flaws in the plastic models that I get. They don't have pieces missing off of their bodes, holes where fingers should be or misshapen heads. If they did, I would be complaining about them too.

mattrym wrote: You are asking for a higher standard with finecast than you are from all your other models.

Apparently you haven't read about Finecast:

"Our Citadel Finecast models are the latest step in hobby evolution, providing you with incredibly detailed, high-quality resin kits to bolster your army. Painting and modelling Citadel miniatures has never been as rewarding as this."

What does that say to you? Does that indicate that Finecast should be held at a higher standard than all the other models? The price sure suggest so.

mattrym wrote:

What!? You think abortion should be legal!? Oh that means you want to rape babies then! I mean.. Jesus.. what the hell was that burger analogy all about?!

It was about getting what you pay for. What you consider "nonsense." Of course, you didn't answer the analogy. You simply dodged it.

mattrym wrote:Our Golden Demon winner gets it. I wont buy FC, I have no intention of doing so because I'm too lazy to return the model if its fethed, so I buy alternatives, but that doesn't mean I will come on here and rip the piss/personally attack someone who gets a FC model with a mildly warped finger

These sorts of statements are what's getting you put into the "white knight" category. This is hyperbolic. You know damn well that this is more than "a mildly warped finger". Obviously, you haven't been keeping up with the state of a lot of these models. Here's another Golden Daemon winner that maybe you should read up on: http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

mattyrm wrote:. I'm simply sticking up the little guys on here who are saying they are happy with their FC models, because I dont like to see them be verbally abused by some ill tempered

Aww, that's sweet of you. Unfortunately, none of the "little guys" have been berated because they are happy with their purchases. If you could quote someone that said, "I like Finecast." and then someone detracting them, then I'd like to see it. swordwind did not do that, however. He started spouting about how great Finecast was, how Finecast was perfect and that all the internet rage is overblown hype meant to bring GW down. Then, he goes on to show an example of his "perfect model" and it is anything but. Someone like that will get berated, and doesn't need anyone sticking up for them.

Alright Alright, Ill hold my hands up, Stormwind does clearly seem to be a bit of a "white knight" and I was simply sticking up for him after you jumped off the wrong end of my first comment and utterly overreacted to my initial post whereby I simply stated that I believed people were asking for more from their FC models than all of their other ones, and I agree with much of what you say.

As I said, there needs to be a healthy balance between being a ridiculous fan boy and a ridiculous hater.

Anyway.....

sidstyler wrote:And this somehow makes me an overreacting rager with a hatedick for GW who takes the hobby way too seriously blah blah what the feth ever.

**The Decapitator**

Ok so I'm thinking this is getting seriously OT and people resorting to arguing and skirting on personal insults really isn't on.

I posted the original post as a way of informing the community of a potential issue with this weekends Finecast releases, so that we could be in the know and be extra vigilant as to not be disappointed.

If nobody has anything else constructive to add and insist on partaking in round the houses arguments in which nobody will actually agree then I vote that the thread is locked.

Anything else right now is pointless!

**puma713**

mattyrm wrote:

Alright Alright, Ill hold my hands up, Stormwind does clearly seem to be a bit of a "white knight" and I was simply sticking up for him after you jumped off the wrong end of my first comment and utterly overreacted to my initial post whereby I simply stated that I believed people were asking for more from their FC models than all of their other ones, and I agree with much of what you say.

As I said, there needs to be a healthy balance between being a ridiculous fan boy and a ridiculous hater.

Anyway.....

Fair enough.

**mattyrm**

The Decapitator wrote:Ok so I'm thinking this is getting seriously OT and people resorting to arguing and skirting on personal insults really isn't on.

I posted the original post as a way of informing the community of a potential issue with this weekends Finecast releases, so that we could be in the know and be extra vigilant as to not be disappointed.

If nobody has anything else constructive to add and insist on partaking in round the houses arguments in which nobody will actually agree then I vote that the thread is locked.

Anything else right now is pointless!

Sorry mate, that's me being confrontational.

I think we can all agree that Finecast is indeed pretty shoddy at the moment, there is a higher than acceptable chance that you will get a gakky model, and its about time GW announced that they are aware of the fact.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

puma713 wrote:

Misquote ^

Hah! Sorry about that mate..

**puma713**

mattyrm wrote:

Sorry mate, that's me being confrontational.

I think we can all agree that Finecast is indeed pretty shoddy at the moment, there is a higher than acceptable chance that you will get a gakky model, and its about time GW announced that they are aware of the fact.

Now he's just being agreeable! Get him! *waves pitchfork*

**FabricatorGeneralMike**

swordwind99 wrote:wow you guys are really hard to please, nothing on that photo looks like it would be an issue after i put some primer and a coat of paint on it, are you all former Golden deamon winners, besides if we blow photos up to 10 times the size of the model im pretty sure we will find faults on anything, wow people said you were the easy going forum, christ knows what warseer is like ?

I hate to say it my friend but primer and paint expose flaws, they don't hide them. The only way to minimize flaws in a model is to do prep-work like filling in air holes in resin models, maybe giving metal models a miliput wash, removing excessive mold lines with a file or emery board.

I am 100% bias against metal models. I love them I am a ironworker by trade and I like working with metal. I like the feel, the tools I have to use I just like the whole process.

I also like resin a lot because of the amount of detailing you can get with a model. The KD stuff looks amazing especially the Flower Knight. FW stuff looks good also. Scibor and other guys do good work in resin. Even PP is having success with their resin-plastic hybrid.

Why can't GW the company that ' Produces the finest toy solders in the world' get it right? IF they can't get it right why do they pretend that nothing is wrong and ALL Finecast is awsome and amazing and a joy to work with? I believe that's what is pissing most people off more so then the poor quality.

Finecast as the potential to be a good medium for producing toy solders with. Right now it's got major problems IMHO. I also believe the 'Annual GW price adjustment' that hit right before FC came out did not do them any favors.

**LunaHound**

swordwind99 just trolled you guys for the last 4 pages -.-

Automatically Appended Next Post:

swordwind99 wrote:Waylands reasons for not stocking of fine cast was a smoke screen,they were just being petty becausr GW eroded a massive amount of waylands sales by slapping them with the Banhammer(still waiting for the ROW solution wayland).

See at first I thought you were trolling, till I read that.
Then I realized you have zero concept on how business works.

Reminds me of...

Spoiler:

**carmachu**

mattyrm wrote:

Some FC models are proper fethed, some aren't. What facts don't bear me out?

And your still doing it. Your still ignoring the facts in the thread, in regards to swordwind or whoever he is. Your playing the "what facts? I dont see any?" ignorgance.

**SlaveToDorkness**

That is a perfect example of why it should be illegal to upload your own video to the internet.

**carmachu**

mattyrm wrote:
Yes, and if you read my initial quote I'm simply saying that it appears that people are holding FC stuff to a higher standard than everything else. Thats it.

No their not. Your full of crap in that sentence. I expect finecast to equal the metal and plastic models that GW has previously released. I've had very very very FEW miscasts in the metal models I owned, dating back to 1990. HAve I gotten them? Sure. But Its so few and far between that Its easily dealt with.

NEVER has any manufacturer, much less GW in years prior, said "hey have them open them at the counter to make sure they have no problems,

Folks expect that same qaulity they have had before. You arent getting it in finecast as you were in metal. ESPECIALLY at the higher GW hype and higher GW price their charging for models that use to be metal.

**SlaveToDorkness**

carmachu wrote:DIE, PRONOUNS...DIE!

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models. They are also harder to cast and work with. Just like FW models require a bit more modelling skill to work with. There has always been a sacrifice between mass produced and better models. Look at historical models, the higher end detailed models require a huge amount of effort to build.

Yes, there have been issues with Finecast (mostly due to the initial released being rushed out) but in the long run it is a better product.

**Andilus Greatsword**

Ok, I was at GW today and checked a few Finecast models from the people in the store and the new Clamshells. I didn't see any miscasts on any of the models - granted, it was a small sample size (3 or 4 Arjac Rockfists - who is actually much more awesome looking than the picture would suggest!

) and a couple TWC Wolf Lords. Just sayin' since the thread will probably be filled with Failcast reports soon enough...

**carmachu**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

They are also harder to cast and work with. Just like FW models require a bit more modelling skill to work with.

True. But then again they will last alot longer, less chance of you screwing up when your working with metal. Fine cast is so soft you have to be real careful, more so oevr plastic, you dont cut something you shouldnt.

But then again I cut my teeth on metal, so its easy for me.

There has always been a sacrifice between mass produced and better models. Look at historical models, the higher end detailed models require a huge amount of effort to build.

Yes, there have been issues with Finecast (mostly due to the initial released being rushed out) but in the long run it is a better product.

Not yet its not. Not in the long run yet. Its still not better then metal as of yet in terms of quality. Further I know how my metal models have stood the test of time- I have some that are 22 years old still in great shape. What will your finecast models be in 22 years? Do you know?

Further, NO there hasnt been a sacrifice between mass production and better models- GW has gotten better at mass production, you cant tell me the models arent better now then they were in rogue trader or 2nd ed. So thats just false.

**Kroothawk**

My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

**H.B.M.C.**

Kroothawk wrote:My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

Well clearly that just makes you a hyperbolic crybaby GW hater.

Right?

**Ehsteve**

Unfortunately the most recent FC I bought was the last straw. After 11 models, sampled from those only released in FC or rereleased from metal, from the day of their initial release until now, I have had to take every model back at least once. The seer council I bought had to be returned 3 times and then I just gave up. I had more fun putting together a metal obliterator complete with 14 pins than with a single DA master which had to have his star-shaped badge completely reworked with greenstuff because half the pointers were missing, along with the skull in the centre being clogged with rubber from the mould along with other frustrating faults.

Couldn't even return a present given to me (paymaster maneater with multiple faults) to a GW store for replacement parts without a printed receipt from the person who bought it (and I'm a regular). I don't get to keep the faulty pieces, what the hell is this all coming to?

**SlaveToDorkness**

carmachu wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

They are also harder to cast and work with. Just like FW models require a bit more modelling skill to work with.

True. But then again they will last alot longer, less chance of you screwing up when your working with metal. Fine cast is so soft you have to be real careful, more so oevr plastic, you dont cut something you shouldnt.

But then again I cut my teeth on metal, so its easy for me.

You have to be careful with FW models (any other resin for that matter) as well. FC models at least have some give to them. FW models break a lot easier. Also resin is lighter so is less prone to breakage if dropped. I've dropped my Huron model twice and it just bounced. Metal would have broken all over the place.

There has always been a sacrifice between mass produced and better models. Look at historical models, the higher end detailed models require a huge amount of effort to build.

Yes, there have been issues with Finecast (mostly due to the initial released being rushed out) but in the long run it is a better product.

Not yet its not. Not in the long run yet. Its still not better then metal as of yet in terms of quality. Further I know how my metal models have stood the test of time- I have some that are 22 years old still in great shape. What will your finecast models be in 22 years? Do you know?

I meant the production of them improves over time, not the life of the models themselves. I know mine will be in my case safe and sound.

Further, NO there hasnt been a sacrifice between mass production and better models- GW has gotten better at mass production, you cant tell me the models arent better now then they were in rogue trader or 2nd ed. So thats just false.

That's not what I said. Please try and read my posts. There is a sacrifice between mass produced models and higher quality models. Like Forgeworld models. More expensive, more work, more delicate but more detail. Like with historicals. There are a ton of aftermarket add-on parts you can put on a standard kit to make it more realistic. Most of these are harder to work with and require more care than the typical straight out of the box mass-produced kit.

**infinite_array**

SlaveToDorkness wrote:
carmachu wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

Let's test that:

Spoiler:

**Insurgency Walker**

I'll bite. Left fine cast, right metal. Right has some scrud on the storm bolter barrel that looks like nothing I've seen on resin from forge world but have seen on metal. Axe head on left looks like it had a slot in it that looks very clean, like resin. I have no experience with fine cast, no local stores carry it in my area. It is starting to trickle into a store a couple hours away, but nothing I have needed has been in finecast yet. My friends have had some FC fails, but somewhere I have an old Blacktemplar champion with a messed up bolter clip in metal. Course I am crazy, I like single piece minis for troops. If a tallarn falls off the table it's just "back in line trooper". Not true for the missle launcher though, it's off to the med bay for glue. That is why I feel sorry for the tau. Always standing those broadsides on the table edges.....

**aleck**

I could be alone here, or just lucky- but I've bought five finecast products, a wood elf high born, two terminator librarians. tau sniper team, and I think an Emperor's Champion- all perfectly fine with a little bit of clean up.

**timetowaste85**

The one on the right has MUCH crisper detail. It's visible in the face, the skull on the bolter and the upper leg areas. Whether the right is finecast or metal, it's definitely the sharper cast.

**insaniak**

timetowaste85 wrote:The one on the right has MUCH crisper detail. It's visible in the face, the skull on the bolter and the upper leg areas.

I spotted that. But then the Cruxes on the left one, both the shoulder and shin, look sharper than on the right. As does the elbow ribbing on the right arm. From looking at the darker shadowing on the wolf pelt on the right hand model, I suspect that the sharper appearance on the face and torso is just because it has a slightly thinner coat of paint. Over all, and accounting for lighting (as they're not quite facing the exact same direction) I don't see any appreciable difference.

**TheSovereign**

I picked up an Arjac Rockfist today. My GW store had three clampacks left. I looked as carefully as I could at each, and noticed some flaws (though not too bad) on 2/3. Bought the one I didn't see flaws on, took him out of the package, and he's truly flawless.

My only gripes are:
A) Heads on Finecast models that are pre-attached are noticeably smaller than plastic model heads.
B) Arjac's hammer broke off already.

**Sidstyler**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:My local store had more Finecast miscasts in half a year than metal and plastic miscasts in 10+ years.

Well clearly that just makes you a hyperbolic crybaby GW hater.

Right?

Yeah, exactly. feth you and your consumer rights, you whiny little bitch!

*Does a quick Google image search for a crying child to humiliate my opponent and to prove to everyone that I'm totally more mature and laid back about my hobby than they are.*

infinite_array wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:
carmachu wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Yes, but the FC models DO have more detail than the metals. That's the part where they are better models.

No they dont. only in the un primed state. Primed you cant tell the difference(well except for FC bubbles)

Sounds like you prime too heavily then. I prime with an airbrush and can totally see a difference. If priming your model changes the level of detail, you're doing it wrong.

Let's test that:

Spoiler:

Look at both models. One is metal, the other is Finecast. Tell me which one is Finecast, and the reasoning behind your answer.

lol, now that's what I'm fething talking about. I can't really tell a difference between them. At first it seems like maybe the right model has sharper detail, but as Insaniak pointed out the lighting is slightly different because they aren't facing the same way, so I honestly can't tell. Personally my gut tells me the left one is probably Finecast since one of the feet looks kinda messy. The mold lines on the axe head might kinda give it away, too, since the one on the right looks more like a metal model to me for some reason. Without any gigantic holes or obvious miscasts it's way too hard to tell if you ask me, so I'm saying there's no real difference and "Finecast has more detail" is just a myth.

**Breotan**

Thing is, resin casting can provide better detail than metal. With Finecast you are still limited by the quality sculpt of the master, the quality of the resin (much doubt here) and the quality of the mold. Forge World has shown with their character models that they can exceed the metals GW has put out. New sculpts in Finecast seem to hold incredibly crisp details. I've no way to gage models that were once metal and are now finecast because they haven't revisited the sculpts. In fact, all the flaws in the original metals are present in the Finecast, too. Take King Liquor's gryphon for example.

**LunaHound**

insaniak wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote:The one on the right has MUCH crisper detail. It's visible in the face, the skull on the bolter and the upper leg areas.

I spotted that. But then the Cruxes on the left one, both the shoulder and shin, look sharper than on the right. As does the elbow ribbing on the right arm. From looking at the darker shadowing on the wolf pelt on the right hand model, I suspect that the sharper appearance on the face and torso is just because it has a slightly thinner coat of paint. Over all, and accounting for lighting (as they're not quite facing the exact same direction) I don't see any appreciable difference.

Look at the direction of the shadow.
Look at the direction of face on left.

Left face = getting hit with light straight on, no where to cast shadow.

We call that "asianized" photo ( basically hit with bright light and it looks airbrushed lol )

**SagesStone**

How else would you see his mustache ribbons?

The left is the finecast one I think. Look at the feet and the axe.

**LunaHound**

Left side = FC Right Side = Metal

**Pacific**

I would guess left one FC?
Just looking at the texture at the bottom of his feet.

**LunaHound**

Here you go, tell me im wrong