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LordofHats wrote:
Alternatives to what?

Alternatives to what is presented given that the first game establishes that the cycle exists.

Why is the super machine race coming back every 50,000 years if not for the lulz, reproduction, defense, or some combination of the 3?

LordofHats wrote:
The Reapers have a claim that isn't at all supported by the fiction. The only organic synthetic conflict is the one between the Quarians and the Geth and its abundantly clear that its not the Geth who want the war, its the Quarians. They started it the first time and they started it again.

Again, it doesn't matter who starts that war, it matters who wins it.

LordofHats wrote:
I definitly agree we've read into the series from two angles (and we also seem to have a different approach to story)

For what its worth, I found Halo very depressing as well. But then, I deal with people as variables on a daily basis, so its bound to happen.

I can look on the pseudo-bright side. With the Mass Relay's destroyed, Bioware has a good starting point for ME4, where you play as the god-king of Man who goes forth into the galaxy to reunite the desperate worlds of man with his twenty super powered sons and an army of genetic super warriors

I really hate the endings....not because of Shepard dying ( he is in fact martyr in the end and I like that end ) I am pissed off because of gigantic plot holes, that many people die for no reason and because nothing that you do in previous two games don't count at all.

It's like BioWare didn't know how to end Mass Effect and they asked Matt Ward to write the endings...

LordofHats wrote:I can look on the pseudo-bright side. With the Mass Relay's destroyed, Bioware has a good starting point for ME4, where you play as the god-king of Man who goes forth into the galaxy to reunite the desperate worlds of man with his twenty super powered sons and an army of genetic super warriors

I love you man. I laughed so hard. That and the 'we don't kill deer to stop them from creating robo-deer' comment. Priceless.

LordofHats wrote:I can look on the pseudo-bright side. With the Mass Relay's destroyed, Bioware has a good starting point for ME4, where you play as the god-king of Man who goes forth into the galaxy to reunite the desperate worlds of man with his twenty super powered sons and an army of genetic super warriors

Well played sir. Well played.

As miffed as we are, I could use the laugh.

I can rant all I want, all I can really do is wait and see what Bioware does really.

On that note, did we hit the mark for killing 1 million Brutes over the weekend?

The "it's just a dream" ending theories are extremely cliché and it seems like more people taking a reasonable ending from the train crash which was the ending.


The fact is that the ending has absolutely no bearing on what you did throughout any of the three games, there is no closure at all and as we know when all the relay blow up it would have exterminated all life on the galaxy. Also the boy had no relevance to anything at all (and should have been the casualty from ME1)

I'm not looking for a happy ending, or an ending where Shepard lives, i would even be happy with the reapers killing all life in the galaxy but there is no closure.

the ending i would like to see:

The crucible connects to the citadel and uses its power to take out the shields of all the reapers. (as it is said that soveins shields were taken down by Sarens death when he connected his conciousness)

Paragon could be that Shepard connects himself to all the reapers and then sacrifices himself to take down thier shields.

Neutral could be that Shepard lets anderson connect and sacrifice himself

Renegade could be that Shepard connects the illusive man and then shoots him

how it happens in don't really care

when the shields go down however i would like a series of cut scenes based on consequences throughout the three games.

EG if you had little effective strength your ships are annihilated and lots of people die
if you had high strength then people fight and kill some reapers ect ect ...

which ever species you picked (quariens and geth) dies if you got both the fight/die/survive together

the destiny ascension killing stuff if you saved the council

ect ect ect

Chemical Cutthroat wrote:
On that note, did we hit the mark for killing 1 million Brutes over the weekend?

Oh we shattered the crap out of it. We killed over 3 million Brutes, and anyone who extracted against Reapers on Silver difficulty gets an extra pack for exceptional service.

Hurray extra pack! We definitely were on a Brute killing Binge over the weekend. I wish the game had stat-tracking for that kind of stuff... I'd love to compare all that.

Incinerate wins, Engineer fo' life.

LordofHats wrote:

Amaya wrote:I don't understand the hatred against the Reapers concerning the ME2 story. I thought they were fine and still fairly consistent with the previous game.

Because it mostly just built up a lot of questions and answered none of them, while at the same time twisting around a few things from ME1. If the Collectors were around, why did Soveriegn need the Geth to help him (remember that getting help from the Geth was Sovereign's back up plan because the signal meant to start the cycle didn't work do to Prothean interference). If the Collectors were around as a safety net, why weren't they used when the situation called for it? ME2's ending also features the Reapers flying back to the galaxy on their own power which kind of begs the question of why where the Collectors making one to begin with? If the Reapers could get back on their own and have such a technological superiority, why bother with their Citadel plan at all?

The Collectors being Protheans also just rubbed some people the wrong way. Why? IDK. I guess they figured that the Reapers just wiped everything out and would have no need to keep a bunch of pseudo-Protheans around?

EDIT: Really though I think its the opening of the game, where Shepard dies for pretty much no reason (well, he died so they could make a trailer that said he died and then they actually did it). That opening pissed a lot of people off and at that point they just weren't willing ti suspend disbelief and went looking for reasons to be pissed at the game, myself included.

Of course, ME3 does the same. If Catalyst was in the Citadel the whole time, what was the point of Sovereign in the first place? I'd also point out that if the Reapers goal is to cull organic life before it can create synthetic life and be destroyed by it, why didn't they destroy the Geth on sight? It seems like a logical step in achieving their goal. Can't have a bunch of synthetics flying around endanger future organics now can we? Oh wait, the Reapers fit that bill. That's why this ending makes no sense -_-

Simple. The collectors had nothing to do with activating the relay. That was soveriegns job, he failed. Remember arrival can happen before you destroy the collector base meaning the reapers have already almost entered the galaxy. Since the reapers are on the move it would have moved them from whatever relay they had in dark space meaning anything happening would have been irrelevent. They had already put plan B in motion.

The collectors had only recently encountered humanity, the first contact war only being 30 years before ME1. Their chief goal was to gather specimins to see and determine which would have been most useful for creating reapers. Hence the abductions, testings etc. It may also have determined the creation of husks and they could send any data they wanted to Harbinger. Since the reapers enter from the south they would also have made a useful 5th column in the north where the Terminus systems are. The attempt to build a human reaper was thus simply sparked by Shephard destruction of soveriegn and their decision that humanity was a likely candidate for 'ascension'. So they decided to get a head-start. Basically, ME2 plot is not about a true galactic 'threat' in the same way ME1 and 3 are. It is more about exposition on what the reapers are, how they are built, what they do to their captured servents, 'what they intend to do to us' and of course expand what cerberus is and Shephards relation to it. Thats not to dismiss it as filler, but it is less about saving the galaxy and more about the growing darkness leading up to the Reaper invasion.

Also the collectors only had one ship and the Geth had hundreds and Soveriegn probably saw no reason to endanger his science division. Also the reapers are pretty arrogant, he only lost because of one human making him brain dead by killing Saren. One or a few collector ships would have meant little. ME2 is less about galactic struggle than the first and third games. Its about Shephard really being on his own and without allies to the point where he has an alliance of convenience with Cerberus since nobody else believes in the coming storm.

Simple. Harbinger (the kid) lied to you in order to make himself appear more benign. Think about it, the reapers are giant cyborgs, synthetics in their own right; surely THEY have overthrown their creators at some point. Also if Sovereign (confirmed by Legion who had no reason to lie) offered the geth a body then it blows that whole 'we're saving organics' argument out of the water.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:The "it's just a dream" ending theories are extremely cliché and it seems like more people taking a reasonable ending from the train crash which was the ending.


The fact is that the ending has absolutely no bearing on what you did throughout any of the three games, there is no closure at all and as we know when all the relay blow up it would have exterminated all life on the galaxy. Also the boy had no relevance to anything at all (and should have been the casualty from ME1)

I'm not looking for a happy ending, or an ending where Shepard lives, i would even be happy with the reapers killing all life in the galaxy but there is no closure.

the ending i would like to see:

The crucible connects to the citadel and uses its power to take out the shields of all the reapers. (as it is said that soveins shields were taken down by Sarens death when he connected his conciousness)

Paragon could be that Shepard connects himself to all the reapers and then sacrifices himself to take down thier shields.

Neutral could be that Shepard lets anderson connect and sacrifice himself

Renegade could be that Shepard connects the illusive man and then shoots him

how it happens in don't really care

when the shields go down however i would like a series of cut scenes based on consequences throughout the three games.

EG if you had little effective strength your ships are annihilated and lots of people die
if you had high strength then people fight and kill some reapers ect ect ...

which ever species you picked (quariens and geth) dies if you got both the fight/die/survive together

the destiny ascension killing stuff if you saved the council

ect ect ect

How do you explain the scene with Shephard waking up in the rubble if you do renegade and have 5000+ EMS? You were in space. On the citadel where everything was made of metal. there is no way that he could have gotten there unless he had woke up on London. Look at Halo 3, that had the chief float toward a glowing world and now, low and behold we have Halo 4 with that exact event shown in a trailer. If you can provide any satisfactory explanation as to why Bioware would put that in I would like to hear it rather than deny something flatly?

No, they'll make a canon ending if it rolls onto ME4. Not every Geth and Quarian would be at the battle. It will likely be paragon. They promised continuity for the trilogy; not for the franchise.

Yeah, that 'Renegade' ending is definitely something. I didn't you you had to have a certain rating to get that, I just saw it and was like, "Huhwhat?"

They put it in there for a reason.

I was talking to my buddy and we were discussing just that, and he said, "Well, that was a pretty ragged breath, I think he's done."

My response.

"**** that, I've been through worse!"


Having died before is a great opening for all sorts of jokes.

Totalwar1402 wrote:Simple. The collectors had nothing to do with activating the relay. That was soveriegns job, he failed. Remember arrival can happen before you destroy the collector base meaning the reapers have already almost entered the galaxy. Since the reapers are on the move it would have moved them from whatever relay they had in dark space meaning anything happening would have been irrelevent. They had already put plan B in motion.

You realize that just raises more plot holes right? A plot hole isn't something that can't be explained away, most can. A plot hole is just something that doesn't logically track with the internal presentation of the fiction. These questions as I've point out are not answered by the story. Are there explanations that can make sense of it? Yes, but a plot hole is a plot hole. Ideally we shouldn't have to be filling in blanks to make sense of something the fiction should be doing it.

Basically, ME2 plot is not about a true galactic 'threat' in the same way ME1 and 3 are.

This probably upset a lot of people to, because in a 3 game narrative that Mass Effect is, the second game is almost a throw away. All anyone really needs out of it the Suicide mission (no really think about it. What decisions did you make in ME2 that really matter? The Reaper Base and who dies. That's it) and the entirety of the rest of the game is just dribble. Hence why I continue to dub it Mass Effect 2: Side-Quest the Game. EDIT EDIT: Hell everything that's important in ME2, could have been achieved in a 1 hour DLC for ME1!

Simple. Harbinger (the kid) lied to you in order to make himself appear more benign. Think about it, the reapers are giant cyborgs, synthetics in their own right; surely THEY have overthrown their creators at some point. Also if Sovereign (confirmed by Legion who had no reason to lie) offered the geth a body then it blows that whole 'we're saving organics' argument out of the water.

Which would make sense, but then that means Bioware has intentionally lied to and misled its audience, which while better than the current ending, is still bad. They can create a trick ending without it sucking.

Of course an equally probably explanation is that the ending just sucks.

How do you explain the scene with Shephard waking up in the rubble if you do renegade and have 5000+ EMS? You were in space. On the citadel where everything was made of metal. there is no way that he could have gotten there unless he had woke up on London. Look at Halo 3, that had the chief float toward a glowing world and now, low and behold we have Halo 4 with that exact event shown in a trailer. If you can provide any satisfactory explanation as to why Bioware would put that in I would like to hear it rather than deny something flatly?

They wrote a sucky ending. Really that is as probable an explanation as the indoctrination theory (and at this point we may never know if such theory should it come to be true was always planned or just latched onto) and frankly, even IF the indoctrination theory is true, the endings still SUCK. We have two options here. Bioware wrote a sucky ending or Bioware wrote a sucky ending and then pulled a fast one with "that's not the real ending." The later is better than the former but it still a sucky way to go about it. EDIT: Especially if they charge for the true ending. I mean, off handedly I'd think EA isn't dumb enough to pull that stunt, but over the years I've learned to never underestimate the stupidity of the gaming community and their ability to continue forking out money to EA when it pulls gak like that.

No, they'll make a canon ending if it rolls onto ME4. Not every Geth and Quarian would be at the battle. It will likely be paragon. They promised continuity for the trilogy; not for the franchise.

Honestly I'm expecting a DLC ending that will finish off the trilogy. The Mass Relays will still be destroyed, and my joking aside, I think that's going to be used as a pushing point for a more regular Mass Effect Franchise. Think about. The Relays are destroyed, galactic civilization is scattered, and presumably safe from the Reapers. Its a good spot story wise to kick off a new plot line with new characters. I'm guessing we're going to jump ahead in the timeline, maybe to where the galaxy has begun building their own relays to reconstruct the relay network.

Honestly I'm expecting a DLC ending that will finish off the trilogy. The Mass Relays will still be destroyed, and my joking aside, I think that's going to be used as a pushing point for a more regular Mass Effect Franchise. Think about. The Relays are destroyed, galactic civilization is scattered, and presumably safe from the Reapers. Its a good spot story wise to kick off a new plot line with new characters. I'm guessing we're going to jump ahead in the timeline, maybe to where the galaxy has begun building their own relays to reconstruct the relay network.

Yeah, ya know, if the relays breaking don't wipe out everyone, that would be pretty awesome. That thought gives me a bit of hope in a dark time. But I think they'd need to change things a lot to reflect the difference of the evolution of technology, in a way that makes it still feel like Mass Effect, but with a new, fresh sort of feeling.

I'm sure they could come up with something to focus on... the before the Reapers the great Galactic ****all was the Rachni. Maybe it's time for the Yaagh to step up as the bad guys.

Eff that... they make Krogan look like little Salarians.

Yeah, I'm gonna stop thinking about that...

"Well, there goes the future Shadow Broker."

"I think I heard him say T'soni..."

"Don't even joke about that."

LordofHats wrote:[



This probably upset a lot of people to, because in a 3 game narrative that Mass Effect is, the second game is almost a throw away. All anyone really needs out of it the Suicide mission (no really think about it. What decisions did you make in ME2 that really matter? The Reaper Base and who dies. That's it) and the entirety of the rest of the game is just dribble. Hence why I continue to dub it Mass Effect 2: Side-Quest the Game. EDIT EDIT: Hell everything that's important in ME2, could have been achieved in a 1 hour DLC for ME1!

They wrote a sucky ending. Really that is as probable an explanation as the indoctrination theory (and at this point we may never know if such theory should it come to be true was always planned or just latched onto) and frankly, even IF the indoctrination theory is true, the endings still SUCK. We have two options here. Bioware wrote a sucky ending or Bioware wrote a sucky ending and then pulled a fast one with "that's not the real ending." The later is better than the former but it still a sucky way to go about it. EDIT: Especially if they charge for the true ending. I mean, off handedly I'd think EA isn't dumb enough to pull that stunt, but over the years I've learned to never underestimate the stupidity of the gaming community and their ability to continue forking out money to EA when it pulls gak like that.

Honestly I'm expecting a DLC ending that will finish off the trilogy. The Mass Relays will still be destroyed, and my joking aside, I think that's going to be used as a pushing point for a more regular Mass Effect Franchise. Think about. The Relays are destroyed, galactic civilization is scattered, and presumably safe from the Reapers. Its a good spot story wise to kick off a new plot line with new characters. I'm guessing we're going to jump ahead in the timeline, maybe to where the galaxy has begun building their own relays to reconstruct the relay network.

1-No, ME2 could not have been done in an hour. That would have meant your relation with the illusive man would have been much more superficial, none of the characters like Thane, Miranda, Jack, Mordin Legion etc could have been done or made anywhere near as good cameos as they did. You couldn't have set up the genophage or Quarian geth conflict. Yes you can just read the codex, but it benefits from the telling and understanding who these people and what the various issues are are in advance.

2-Not the case at all. we haven't seen the ending. The indoctrination thing adds depth and makes sense in hindsight. To get a second chance to get it right would be good. Given that I enjoyed the rest of the game and thought the Tuchanka/Quarian segments were outstanding I fail to see how the ending could be bad. It will turn a negative into a positive.

So you'll pay £40 for a 2p compact disc in a shiny plastic case but the idea of paying a little for DLC is monstrous to you? They are a company, they make profit and get your money by definition. Charging above a products actual worth is how capitalism works. The quality is not bad at all. You want to play two worlds and Kingdoms of Amalur then be my guest. There is hardly a steller selction of RPGs on console.

3-I'd expect a happy ending if you have high EMS and a concluding epilogue. Whatever else happens is irrelevent they can take whatever time leap they want without blowing ME relays up. It would also be problematic since you would then have a dozen alien races living on earth which would be pretty silly. Look at TOR, 130 years, enough to make (almost) every KoToR character dead and you end up with a verse largely the same at the end. The catalyst will probably just (as many others have said) disable the reapers shields and give your fleet the chance it needs.

I almost get the feeling that Bioware is using it's fan reaction as a sort of group computing thing. They have a bunch of writers pouring over message boards and the like, picking apart what people are saying as they build another ending.

Somewhere on the internet, someone is going to jump up and scream I TOLD YOU SO... because they won the guessing lottery.

Naturally, nobody will hear them.

Am I the only one who thinks destroying the Mass Relays is a terrible idea for the universe they created. Even if they wouldn't wipe out entire systems through that stunt Shepard pulled at the end.

Not only the relays, but most of the Mass Effect-based technology were wiped out. That's pretty much everything! The guns, the space ships, other vehicles, shields. I don't want to see what happens in the ME-Universe after this ending. Because there is nothing that could happen!

Not necessarily chief. We've figured out Mass Effect fields, we can make the things, and thereby remake them.

The difference with the Relays is that they're just so huge... we used them to reverse engineer the mass effect technology, we still have access to that tech. Just not on the scale of the Relays.

Totalwar14021 wrote:-No, ME2 could not have been done in an hour.

The whole thing? Of course not. The parts that matter? Yeah.

That would have meant your relation with the illusive man would have been much more superficial, none of the characters like Thane, Miranda, Jack, Mordin Legion etc could have been done or made anywhere near as good cameos as they did.

No, but really, what's so important about any of them that their roles couldn't have been filled by random character #5, I like Legion, Mordin, and Jack. Characterization in ME2 was great. But when you break it down to the knitty gritty, almost the entirety of ME2 is just filler. Sure ME3 benefits from these characters, but we could have had an actual game instead of the collection of character quests that ME2 was and that's just disappointing. ME2 is like the 15 minute interlude in a movie, except the interlude was 20 hours long with some interesting character pieces.

EDIT: Heck, Cerberus and TIM even came a little from left field in ME2. In ME1 it looked like the Alliance would be the problem as there were numerous hints and allusions to the mass corruption of the Alliance government and its questionable ethics and morality, and then in ME2 none of that was used. Instead, Cerberus, a misc side plot from ME1 no one really cared about, became center stage and the questions of the Alliance dropped off the map at that point.

You couldn't have set up the genophage or Quarian geth conflict.

Both of these were established in ME1. ME2 did little the push anything in the franchise forward. It built off ME1 but did little to advance it.

2-Not the case at all. we haven't seen the ending.

No we have seen the ending. For now, the Indoctrination theory is just a very probable guess.

The indoctrination thing adds depth and makes sense in hindsight.

Audiences tend not to care if something horrible suddenly seems less horrible in hind sight. I certainly don't. Bad writing is bad writing.

Given that I enjoyed the rest of the game and thought the Tuchanka/Quarian segments were outstanding I fail to see how the ending could be bad. It will turn a negative into a positive.

While true, some people will come out of ME3 remembering "Damn that ending sucked, glad they fixed it." The ball has been dropped. It can be picked back up but the next time Bioware pitches everyones doing to have that tiny hesitation, remembering what happened last time.

So you'll pay £40 for a 2p compact disc in a shiny plastic case but the idea of paying a little for DLC is monstrous to you?

I expect the ending to be on the disc. I don't think that's an absurd notion by any standard. If I buy a game, and am told that there is an epic story, I expect my initial purchase to wrap up said story. Not that I'd have to pay an additional $10 on top of the $60 I already paid to get the damned ending. Anyone who actually thinks that that is a good use of money has something loose in their head.

They are a company, they make profit and get your money by definition.

I've always found it baffling the things a company can get away with in the name of profit. You know back in the late 19th century workers worked 72 hour weeks and got paid nearly nothing so that companies could make a profit.

Charging above a products actual worth is how capitalism works.

Congratulations for figuring out 6th grade civics? A consumer who buys a product for more than its worth is a moron. EA has been finding ways to weasel money out of its customers for the better part of the last decade and somehow people keep giving them money. Now we're at the point where buying a game might possibly not even get us the actual game! If the ending DLC is actually charged for and people start buying it, they will do it again. Then they'll keep going down the slope until we reach:




Then again, I'm a cynic.

Then again again, I called out that this bull was gonna start coming down the line back in high school in the early 2000's and no one listened to me then.

3-I'd expect a happy ending if you have high EMS and a concluding epilogue. Whatever else happens is irrelevent they can take whatever time leap they want without blowing ME relays up. It would also be problematic since you would then have a dozen alien races living on earth which would be pretty silly. Look at TOR, 130 years, enough to make (almost) every KoToR character dead and you end up with a verse largely the same at the end. The catalyst will probably just (as many others have said) disable the reapers shields and give your fleet the chance it needs.

We will find out sooner or later. A DLC ending is inevitable at this point, unless Bioware wants its brand to lose all respectability, which I assume they don't.

Not necessarily chief. We've figured out Mass Effect fields, we can make the things, and thereby remake them.

We do find out in ME2, for those who don't remember, that the Asari at least were at that time on the edge of being able to construct a functioning Mass Relay. They had the tecnology, but with a network already in place no real will existed to do it. Now, if the existing network got blown up? We shall see.

LordofHats wrote:
You realize that just raises more plot holes right? A plot hole isn't something that can't be explained away, most can. A plot hole is just something that doesn't logically track with the internal presentation of the fiction. These questions as I've point out are not answered by the story. Are there explanations that can make sense of it? Yes, but a plot hole is a plot hole. Ideally we shouldn't have to be filling in blanks to make sense of something the fiction should be doing it.

A plot hole is a plot hole, but not all plot holes are created equal.

In the case of the Citadel plan, there is an obvious advantage to shattering the center of galactic civilization immediately. I mean, imagine ME3 (or even ME2) without being able to travel to the citadel, it changes things completely.

The Collectors are a bit trickier, but it is my understanding that the Geth were a backup plan after Sovereign learned that the Keepers had been altered. Its very possible that "he" simply lacked control of the Collectors, for a variety of reasons.

These answers aren't spelled out in the fiction, of course, but that isn't necessary. Plenty of great fictional universes, and ME is far from great, turn on not having everything spelled out.

LordofHats wrote:
This probably upset a lot of people to, because in a 3 game narrative that Mass Effect is, the second game is almost a throw away. All anyone really needs out of it the Suicide mission (no really think about it. What decisions did you make in ME2 that really matter? The Reaper Base and who dies. That's it) and the entirety of the rest of the game is just dribble.

None of the ME1 decisions, except "who dies", mattered either.

People seem to, for some reason, have bought into the idea that ME is somehow "about choice" in a way that other games haven't been. This is false. You aren't given any kind of material choice in any ME game aside from which squad mates live, and what small dialogue change your save file may encounter.

LordofHats wrote:
Hence why I continue to dub it Mass Effect 2: Side-Quest the Game. EDIT EDIT: Hell everything that's important in ME2, could have been achieved in a 1 hour DLC for ME1!

The suicide mission isn't important at all except for the introduction of new characters. Hell, if Shepard dies in ME2, and you want to play ME3, Shepard isn't dead.

The whole of ME2 was about fleshing out the ME universe, and as a universe driven series that's completely fine. It isn't like "impending galactic doom, averted by a special human" is a new plot line.

dogma wrote:A plot hole is a plot hole, but not all plot holes are created equal.

I concede to this point. As I stated earlier in the page I am unwilling to suspend disbelief in the story anymore, so while these holes are fillable, I just choose to be bitchy about them

None of the ME1 decisions, except "who dies", mattered either.

People seem to, for some reason, have bought into the idea that ME is somehow "about choice" in a way that other games haven't been. This is false. You aren't given any kind of material choice in any ME game aside from which squad mates live, and what small dialogue change your save file may encounter.

I'm not talking about the choices that are imported into the next game. I'm talking straightly about the events of ME2 and how they impact into those of ME1 and ME3. Everything important that ME2 did, could literally have been done in 1 hour, because of the 30 hours I could spend playing through a game of ME2, I spend only about 5 of them actually doing anything related to the main story line of the trilogy, and if I were to completely break those 5 hours down into what really matters, I could get that story told in about 1 hour and tacked it onto the end of ME1 cause frankly the suicide mission is the only event in ME2 with an impact on the trilogy.

EDIT: In this form it would be: Shepard gets a call from the Alliance that explains the Collectors, that they're kidnapping Colonists, and that they went through the Omega Relay. Shepard and team pursue, find base. I just saved everyone an additional 4 hours of filler in the main story, and an another 25 of meaningless dribble... But then again I suppose some people really like the characterization that the meaningless dribble comprises cause it was really good characterization all told (for the most part *glares at Jacob, Miranda, and Samara*) and that I can respect. But I will never EVER concede that ME2 had a good story because it didn't. It had a horrible main story with some nice really nice side-plots. EDIT EDIT: And I just opened up the field for an actual story line to fit between ME1 and ME3 that could have been a billion times more interesting than the real ME2 was.

LordofHats wrote:The suicide mission isn't important at all except for the introduction of new characters.

Which is really all ME2 did. Hence why I think the games story sucked, and why I'd say that of the three games ME2 is the weakest in story and could really be ignored were it not for the need to import save files.

The whole of ME2 was about fleshing out the ME universe, and as a universe driven series that's completely fine.

They could have fleshed it out and still actually driven the main story line forward. The goals are not exclusive of one another. In terms of fleshing out I agree ME2 did great. To bad its nice for a universe to advance while being fleshed out.

It isn't like "impending galactic doom, averted by a special human" is a new plot line.

Its preferable to not really having one. EDIT: And the age old addage "There is no such things as an original story."

LordofHats wrote:[qu

Charging above a products actual worth is how capitalism works.

Congratulations for figuring out 6th grade civics? A consumer who buys a product for more than its worth is a moron. EA has been finding ways to weasel money out of its customers for the better part of the last decade and somehow people keep giving them money. Now we're at the point where buying a game might possibly not even get us the actual game! If the ending DLC is actually charged for and people start buying it, they will do it again. Then they'll keep going down the slope until we reach:
.

No need to be a . I'am trying to cut down on the long posts and not write an essay here. You don't invoke common sense as proof of your intellectual background. Also, you're saying the consumer who pays more than a product is worth is a moron. By that logic every consumer is a moron. In fact, come on, you're in a 40k forum!!! Don't even start on companies inflating profit

Totalwar1402 wrote: In fact, come on, you're in a 40k forum!!! Don't even start on companies inflating profit

...

Well played...

EDIT: Though in my defense I stopped buying GW stuff two price hikes ago

LordofHats wrote:
I'm not talking about the choices that are imported into the next game. I'm talking straightly about the events of ME2 and how they impact into those of ME1 and ME3. Everything important that ME2 did, could literally have been done in 1 hour, because of the 30 hours I could spend playing through a game of ME2, I spend only about 5 of them actually doing anything related to the main story line of the trilogy, and if I were to completely break those 5 hours down into what really matters, I could get that story told in about 1 hour and tacked it onto the end of ME1 cause frankly the suicide mission is the only event in ME2 with an impact on the trilogy.

Right, and ME1 could be compressed into the same 5 hours, less if we're going to hand over characters like Liara; at least as is relevant to the trilogy.

Hell, you pick up Garrus and Wrex on the Citadel, Liara could just as easily been put there in order to cut out a mission. The only trilogy relevant things you do, outside the tutorial (Eden Prime) Virmire and Ilos, are based on character and world development.

LordofHats wrote:
Which is really all ME2 did. Hence why I think the games story sucked, and why I'd say that of the three games ME2 is the weakest in story and could really be ignored were it not for the need to import save files.

The story of every game sucked. Its entirely driven by the character and the world.

The original KoToR had an excuse for being campy, and even then it innovated, but ME has always been "Cool world, generic story."

LordofHats wrote:
They could have fleshed it out and still actually driven the main story line forward. The goals are not exclusive of one another. In terms of fleshing out I agree ME2 did great. To bad its nice for a universe to advance while being fleshed out.

Advance to what? Reaper invasion? The problem with introducing "super big bad" in the first game of a trilogy is that it doesn't allow much room for expansion.

Its not like we could find out that, really, Shepard was the son of a Reaper.

LordofHats wrote:
Its preferable to not really having one. EDIT: And the age old addage "There is no such things as an original story."

Its about as good as "These weird things are kidnapping people, we need to stop them."

LordofHats wrote:I can look on the pseudo-bright side. With the Mass Relay's destroyed, Bioware has a good starting point for ME4, where you play as the god-king of Man who goes forth into the galaxy to reunite the desperate worlds of man with his twenty super powered sons and an army of genetic super warriors

You do know that leading men for entire Mass Effect project, Casey Hudson, is Space Wolves player? He said that in one of his interviews...
And you thin that all those 40k related things in Mass Effect universe are just random?

Brother Coa wrote:

LordofHats wrote:I can look on the pseudo-bright side. With the Mass Relay's destroyed, Bioware has a good starting point for ME4, where you play as the god-king of Man who goes forth into the galaxy to reunite the desperate worlds of man with his twenty super powered sons and an army of genetic super warriors

You do know that leading men for entire Mass Effect project, Casey Hudson, is Space Wolves player? He said that in one of his interviews...
And you thin that all those 40k related things in Mass Effect universe are just random?

What, the SOB/femshep boob armour?

dogma wrote:Right, and ME1 could be compressed into the same 5 hours, less if we're going to hand over characters like Liara; at least as is relevant to the trilogy.

That's one of my criticisms of ME1. Not only were all the party members bland and boring, all of them were only there to be there. Well, except Wrex. He was maybe a little bland, but he certainly wasn't boring

EDIT: I was pleased in ME2 when Garrus and Tali managed to find personalities. Less pleased that Ashley/Kaiden remained as interesting as brick. EDIT EDIT: Then again ME2 took my criticism of ME1 to a whole nother level. Instead of six person sized pieces of dead weight I got nearly a dozen. Miranda and Mordain were the only ME2 party members who mattered XD

The only trilogy relevant things you do, outside the tutorial (Eden Prime) Virmire and Ilos, are based on character and world development.

The other planets (baring Liara's) fulfilled a plot role in that they were used to help uncover the mystery. Sure they could have been written out by my logic, but at the end of the day there's still a lot more story than there was in ME2, and it was more interesting too boot (the 'freshness' of the universe probably helped. Things are always nicer the first time you see them).

The story of every game sucked. Its entirely driven by the character and the world.

Character driven stories are typically seen as superior to other kinds. I'm not talking about innovation, or originality, or uniqueness. ME is far from unique. I'm just plainly talking about structure. Its certainly not A Tale of Two Cities but no one should be going into the story looking for a master piece that will last the ages. Video Game story lines are about the same in quality as pulp fiction. The structure of the story of ME1 was perfectly fine. Its big achievement was probably the success in Bioware's finale for the game where they managed to build tension and hold it very effectively for about the last two-three hours of the game. EDIT: Well, ME2 probably did that too, but I was so bored with the game by the suicide mission I just wanted it to be over.

Hell maybe that's the problem with ME3's ending 1 and 2 built the tension high and blew up. ME3 just simmered out XD

Advance to what? Reaper invasion? The problem with introducing "super big bad" in the first game of a trilogy is that it doesn't allow much room for expansion.

There was plenty of room for expansion. Even the Collector story line had nothing wrong with it on its face. The execution was just half-assed.

Its not like we could find out that, really, Shepard was the son of a Reaper.

You know people actually theorized that after ME2 The blobs of text they called "evidence" were hilarious. Some of them even had pics!

Brother Coa wrote:You do know that leading men for entire Mass Effect project, Casey Hudson, is Space Wolves player? He said that in one of his interviews...
And you thin that all those 40k related things in Mass Effect universe are just random?

My god, its all making sense now.

But no I didn't know that I just noticed how the current ending results in a rather common sci-fi scenario and one that is seen in 40k

This is actually how I'd break ME down:

Geth = Cylons
Quarians = The Twelve Colonies
Asari = They always seemed Vulcany to me, though the idea behind the Asari is one I've never seen before unless
Turians = Romulans
Krogans = Klingons
Reapers = The Borg
Salarians = The Obsidian Order (DS9)
Humans = Generic human space bad asses

EDIT: And the Rachni are just the bugs from Ender's Game

And of course they named the main character Shepard. I wonder if that's a metaphor

LordofHats wrote: Miranda and Mordain were the only ME2 party members who mattered XD

Not Legion, or Jack?

LordofHats wrote:
The other planets (baring Liara's) fulfilled a plot role in that they were used to help uncover the mystery. Sure they could have been written out by my logic, but at the end of the day there's still a lot more story than there was in ME2, and it was more interesting too boot (the 'freshness' of the universe probably helped. Things are always nicer the first time you see them).

Its still just exposition of the universe, and very little actual story; though at that level there is little difference. Which, really, is my point.

LordofHats wrote:
There was plenty of room for expansion. Even the Collector story line had nothing wrong with it on its face. The execution was just half-assed.

Not really, because ultimately everything has to tie back to the Reapers; for example the Collectors.

Once you introduce the ultimate evil, everything has to riff off that. Even Cerberus, ultimately, had to riff of the Reapers.

LordofHats wrote:
You know people actually theorized that after ME2 The blobs of text they called "evidence" were hilarious. Some of them even had pics!

I mean, considering the IM, he at least likely had some Reaper tech used to resurrect him.

dogma wrote:Not Legion, or Jack?

Unless I'm forgetting something; Miranda to pull a Jesus for Shepard and Mordain to get around the little bug probes. I suppose you need some filler to complete the other Suicide Mission parameters but I think of that as more of a game play aspect than a story aspect.

Its still just exposition of the universe, and very little actual story; though at that level there is little difference. Which, really, is my point.

The presentation was vastly different, and in story presentation is what really matters.

Once you introduce the ultimate evil, everything has to riff off that. Even Cerberus, ultimately, had to riff of the Reapers.

Like I said earlier I honestly don't know why Cerberus got elevated to the position it did. ME1 set up the Alliance government and the Council to be a problem, but then just dropped the Alliance.

I mean, considering the IM, he at least likely had some Reaper tech used to resurrect him.

The theory stuff going on after ME2 was crazy. I can't remember all the wacky to outright asinine theories people came up with XD.

LordofHats wrote:
My god, its all making sense now.

But no I didn't know that I just noticed how the current ending results in a rather common sci-fi scenario and one that is seen in 40k

This is actually how I'd break ME down:

Geth = Cylons
Quarians = The Twelve Colonies
Asari = They always seemed Vulcany to me, though the idea behind the Asari is one I've never seen before unless
Turians = Romulans
Krogans = Klingons
Reapers = The Borg
Salarians = The Obsidian Order (DS9)
Humans = Generic human space bad asses

And of course they named the main character Shepard. I wonder if that's a metaphor

Geth, Reapers = Necrons. ( there is even a story that Javik said about soem race named Zha'til who were dying due to radiation of their dying sun, then decided to upgrade themselves in metal parts to survive longer, until they were transferred into full metal body with AI-'s and decided to rampage around galaxy. Sounds familiar no? No C'Tan but still.... )
Quarians = Adeptus Mechanicus.
Asari = A mix of Eldar and Tau. ( advanced tech and long lifespan but not racist like Eldar )
Protheans = Tau Empire. ( "Our Empire had many subjects, all eventually called themselves Prothean." "They were not given a choice." Sound like Tau to me )
Krogans = Orks. ( like that was not obvious enough )
Shepard, N7 = Kasrkins. ( if class is Solder )
Samara is from ortodox order or knights that dedicated their life to serving the code, use biotic powers and always fighting evil no matter where it is or who she kills. Her title said it all, the Justicar = Grey Knights, Inquisition.
Cerberus = Chaos. ( No daemons just renegades )
Rachni = Tyranids.
Alliance Military and Navy = Imperial Guard and imperial Navy.
Turians = Cadians.
Citadel Council = High Lords of Terra ( with Udina like Goge Vandire ).
Salarians = Tau. ( technology, fast attack tactics, infiltration and intelligence operations )
Admiral Hackett = Ursarkar E. Creed
and so on...

Only difference is - no Space Marines ( unless you count Shepard as one after all those advancements in ME2... ).

Your list is much more impressive than mine