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Deadshot wrote:I quite like Wards fluff. It embodies the epicness that marines are designed to be.
If they were not as epicly depicted I would not like it. I also think he gave the Necrons a face rather than a purpose. They needed it though I dislike the idea of Dynasties and different colours.
He is certainly better than Cruddace.
I don't care too much about Cruddance in either direction, as for Ward, thank you, he does seem like he is trying too hard to make the marines seem good sometimes, but I really have to give him a standing ovation for changing the necrons. Honestly the necrons before were terrible, the only unique characters were the Ctan, which weren't even necrons, it should have been codex "Ctan and their robot zombies" before Ward came.
Deadshot wrote:I quite like Wards fluff. It embodies the epicness that marines are designed to be.
If they were not as epicly depicted I would not like it. I also think he gave the Necrons a face rather than a purpose. They needed it though I dislike the idea of Dynasties and different colours.
He is certainly better than Cruddace.
I don't care too much about Cruddance in either direction, as for Ward, thank you, he does seem like he is trying too hard to make the marines seem good sometimes, but I really have to give him a standing ovation for changing the necrons. Honestly the necrons before were terrible, the only unique characters were the Ctan, which weren't even necrons, it should have been codex "Ctan and their robot zombies" before Ward came.
Not to mention how Annoyingly prevalent Necrons were in the fluff. Every single thing was devolving into "C'tan was doing this, c'tan cause this, oh chaos as the big bad? Tyranids evil? hahaha, ALL C'TAN'S PLAN!"
What everyone seems to forget is that most people Hated the necrons fluff when it started getting pushed into the spotlight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/18 19:36:40
Vladsimpaler wrote:
You not playing Space Marines has nothing to do with what I'm saying haha. I seriously doubt that any army that you used totally became obsolete from one Imperial Guard codex to the next. The only thing might have been carapace, but even then you can give Veterans carapace so there's no issue there.
182nd Harkoni Warhawks Drop Troops - Totally disappeared from the Codex, so I had to revert to ForgeWorld Elysian rules.
24th Stalking Tigers Regiment (Infiltrating/Tanith-ish) - Infiltrating an entire army. Al'Rahem mitigates it somewhat, but since he has to Outflank, it's good for blobs, but not so good for Heavy Weapon Squads.
Don't remember the Stalking Tigers. Did you play them or are you just trying to nitpick? As for the Harakoni Warhawks, yeah they were cool but definitely didn't work with this codex very well. However, you could still stick them in Valkyries or Vendettas. Elysians are more like the Warhawks anyway, so you should be fine.
Haha, not everything is in shades of grey. Orders are incredibly useful (brb twin-linking a heavy weapons team with autocannons or lascannons, brb looks like your Marines have to reroll their cover saves against my Melta guns).
For those doctrines, good luck with your 9 point Imperial Guardsmen goals of 2012.
And I do agree with you on Vox Casters!
They're useful until the CCS dies, and then you're only means of Bring It Down! and Fire on my Target! disappears, and I do not play Space Marines. I would gladly pay a point or two more for +1WS Infantry and Re-roling ones on anything non-plasma/rifle and be able to use it wholesale without the nanny platoon command squads.
I never said you did, calm down haha
Anyway I would rather have 2 guardsmen to your 1 guardsman that gets +1WS and can re-roll 1's. Just keep your PCS behind the main units and you'll be fine, unless you throw them into really dangerous situations.
Deadshot, the internet Codices are usually well conceived, executed and run past others for comments and criticism. If I don't like something in an internet codex (imbalances etc) I can comment and have it changed (within reason).
If a GW codex has a problem (vagueness or simply too good to be true) it will be smeared around with an FAQ or ignored. There was a time when a certain
Spoiler:
Gwar
was writing FAQs as the codices were being released.
Their BL writers are capable of writing damn good fluff. Let the games developers make games and the writers write nice, consistent fluff.
DaemonJellybaby wrote:Deadshot, the internet Codices are usually well conceived, executed and run past others for comments and criticism. If I don't like something in an internet codex (imbalances etc) I can comment and have it changed (within reason).
True, but Games Workshop work within a team/have an entire Games Development Team. Personally, I'd say a team of Developers is equal to a load of blokes on the internet.
Deadshot wrote:Yu all seem to forget that GW are a marketing company above all, so if they se, for example, Just Dave's Chaos Codex, they may say "Well that certainly does make Chaos awesome! But it doesn't sell Space marines! That's what we want, so nerf those Lashes, FAQ Warp Time and fix the fluff to say the 'The brave Ultras withdrew after inflicting heavy casualties' instead of 'Abbaddon put the hurt on Papa Smurf so bad he peed his TDAlols troll' "
Actually, just to interject on this point, my Codex pretty well supports new models (and this isn't a coincidence); Dreadnoughts - who would inevitably become plastic - are much better and have better representation. There's scope for lots of other viable new kits for units such as Cultists, Hell Blades and Defilers, all of whom are also well-represented, and Havocs and Raptors (for former of whom can provide Grenade Launchers and Warpcannons) would also need new kits and are better units, albeit to a lesser extent than Dreads.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
Their BL writers are capable of writing damn good fluff. Let the games developers make games and the writers write nice, consistent fluff.
BL isn't much for consistency, Indeed, their greatest strength is that they are not bound by it. Also, writting a 1000-page novel, or even a 100 page story is something rather different than trying to convey key themes in a handfull of sentences. Not that they might be unable to do that, but neither would I think their writing experience would necessarily guarantee better result. And finally, serarating "fluff" and "rules" in the in-house design would most likely only further exaggerate what many consider alreadly a major problem.. the disconnect between fluff and rules.
In many some respects, current fluff by Codex writers like, not least, Mat Ward, is reviled in some parts because they go against some of the wilder tangents of BL and stick closer to the miniatures. Calgar vs. Avatar for example. Seems a fair fight by looking at the model stats. But some of the more whacky, fan-fiction-style writings on the Eldar Avatar have so absurdly exaggerated expectations on the Avatar, that people keep crying foul. Using BL to run the fluff would likely only deepen the problem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/18 21:47:34
DaemonJellybaby wrote:Their BL writers are capable of writing damn good fluff. Let the games developers make games and the writers write nice, consistent fluff.
I'd like to make a slight remark here, BL "fluff" is not that consistent, for example, in some books they are just like you normally imagine them but in others they backflip and surf on vehicles; and falcons are sometimes depicted as advanced vehicles but sometimes depicted as something a kid with a branch could take down.
I'm a bit biased because I'm an Eldar player but I'm sure there are plenty more examples.
5.000 2.000
"The stars themselves once lived and died at our command, yet you still dare to oppose our will."
DaemonJellybaby wrote:Their BL writers are capable of writing damn good fluff. Let the games developers make games and the writers write nice, consistent fluff.
I'd like to make a slight remark here, BL "fluff" is not that consistent, for example, in some books they are just like you normally imagine them but in others they backflip and surf on vehicles; and falcons are sometimes depicted as advanced vehicles but sometimes depicted as something a kid with a branch could take down.
I'm a bit biased because I'm an Eldar player but I'm sure there are plenty more examples.
You just referenced C.S Goto.
All of his works are void.
No really, I think GW or BL actually said that his works don't count.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
DaemonJellybaby wrote:
Their BL writers are capable of writing damn good fluff. Let the games developers make games and the writers write nice, consistent fluff.
Too bad they can't. Abnett conflicts himself in books only he wrote in the HH series.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
You didn't know that GW doesn't have "writers" they just have 1000 monkeys on 1000 typewriters, and every 6 months they pick at random, then apply a "stage name" to the cover. The other 1000 monkeys throwing darts at 1000 dartboards decides what army gets the book.
Codex development IS a team effort thing - one person is lead (sometimes 2, ala 4th ed chaos) and usually has their name up in lights.
Dave - I said JUST comparing points is a naive way to compare units in codexes, bcause it doesnt take account of the value that unit has in that codex. Allied GKTs are worth a lot more to an IG army than they are in a GK book, because they fill a gap the IG army doesnt have. That is an obviously trivial example, but should serve as a good illustration of the concept
If you remove razorback spam then the points cost for a psyrifleman becomes a lot more palatable, as it becomes their only real anti-meta gun platform. Its the fact you can take them AND cheap scoring units in psybacks that causes the most issues with the codex.
DaemonJellybaby wrote:
Their BL writers are capable of writing damn good fluff. Let the games developers make games and the writers write nice, consistent fluff.
Too bad they can't. Abnett conflicts himself in books only he wrote in the HH series.
Yeah, I'm reading through the Eisenhorn books at the moment and it has required a good deal of "that makes no sense! Oh well, just ignore it and enjoy the story" so far.
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
You just referenced C.S Goto.
All of his works are void.
No really, I think GW or BL actually said that his works don't count.
Not just Goto. All of them. They had a big fight about the IP, with writers noting that what works "in a game" may not work in a "1000-page novel" and vice versa. They finally settled on giving BL "creative licence" to go with their "own take" of the same universe. Dan Abnett's been specifically vocal about it, pointing out that his work is his take on the entire thing, not meant to be taken slavishly as "canon".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/19 11:55:50
You just referenced C.S Goto.
All of his works are void.
No really, I think GW or BL actually said that his works don't count.
Not just Goto. All of them. They had a big fight about the IP, with writers noting that what works "in a game" may not work in a "1000-page novel" and vice versa. They finally settled on giving BL "creative licence" to go with their "own take" of the same universe. Dan Abnett's been specifically vocal about it, pointing out that his work is his take on the entire thing, not meant to be taken slavishly as "canon".
Where does it say this precisely?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/19 12:04:41
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Starting 17:30, 17:40 about he references the BL vs. GW fight, though he does it "politely" for the public, as well as the official BL/GW (and FW) policy ("paradigm") of doing different creative interpretation of the same "core property", rather than the identical stuff, which you get if you freelance for them. (up to about 19:00 +).
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/19 13:40:51
5.000 
2.000
~4100
~1660
