Finecast. (NOT a Hate Thread?!)

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**Flashman**

My one finecast model was the female vampire lord. It had a few tiny bubbles but nothing which obscured any detail. The sword was slightly bent and I couldn't get it to stay unbent which has kind of put me off any model with a sword or any other long thin part.

**LadyCassandra**

Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring. This is my Nightbringer Finecast model. I've not painted it because it was the wrong size for a conversion, so it's been waiting in a drawer all this time. It has a small problem with the underside of one of the sashes but apart from that... no bubbles I can find, no voids, but a lot of flash and vents. I put in some inserts, but they're pretty big pictures as well.

Spoiler:

**Blood and Slaughter**

If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one its really poor. With metal the standard was uniform

This seems sensible. I'd modify it to say: If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one it can be really poor. With metal the standard was far more uniform.

Metal figures could be poor but were seldom so. Not many held detail to so fine an extent as good Finecast (I have two Finecast librarians both of which have better definition of fine detail than the metal one I have -- though the metal one was perfectly satisfactory as far as I'm concerned).

**Darkness**

I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

**TBD**

Darkness wrote:I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

We look forward to seeing all of their pictures then.

The thing is (not directed at you but in general), it has happened quite often that someone has claimed "I have this great flawless FC model", only to have people come out of the woodwork and from all over the place spotting bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details and other mishaps.

So unfortunately experience has shown people's word can not be taken when it comes to this subject. What looks "perfect" to the one apparently is far from it to the other.

I have had a few very good (but not pefect) casts myself, however, and I do usually check a whole bunch of FC models whenever I am at the store(s), about 8/9 out of 10 blisters I have come across have some kind of casting issue that stops me from buying it.

**Kanluwen**

TBD wrote:
Darkness wrote:I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

We look forward to seeing all of their pictures then.

The thing is (not directed at you but in general), it has happened quite often that someone has claimed "I have this great flawless FC model", only to have people come out of the woodwork and from all over the place spotting bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details and other mishaps.

So unfortunately experience has shown people's word can not be taken when it comes to this subject. What looks "perfect" to the one apparently is far from it to the other.

I can think of one notable case where someone came out and "spotted bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details, and other mishaps" and the poster who actually had the model in their hands was able to shoot down every single bit of it.

What looks like a "mishap" to one person on a computer screen might not be in real life. It goes both ways, sadly.

**Dysartes**

Was that my Arjac Rockfist, Kan?

If so, I'm still waiting on Luna explaining what he thought the issues were that he was seeing, as a red circle without description wasn't that clear.

**Kanluwen**

It indeed was, Dysartes.

That said, sometimes it is going to simply be a case that you might not see it in person but when you've got a nice photo you'll spot something you haven't before.

**TBD**

Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

**Kanluwen**

TBD wrote:Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

Something can look the way it is supposed to in person and still have flaws that will show up when photographed and then shown on a PC screen, but not readily when you're holding it in your hand.

**mattyrm**

TBD wrote:Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

Well I recall seeing it, and that case in point was patently fething ridiculous. People are far too polite to say it, but there were red circles drawn around a few bubble issues the buyer hadn't complained about sure, but also plenty drawn around fully none existent gak.

As I've said before, I'm no white knight, I don't have enough time and effort invested into the hobby to be one and I've still not bought a FC model (I reckon Ill take the plunge this year though as the quality seems to be getting better judging by the boards) but at the end of the day, people on both sides of the line (hater/lover) act ridiculously on this board. I don't understand why it is however that only the lovers seem to get constantly abused. Why the feth do people have to print photos? There have been a good what? Ten-Twelve people in this thread said they have good models? That's enough for people without an irrational hatred/tin foil hat wearer that thinks its all some warped conspiracy.

Seriously, ask the majority of people (normal people make up about 95% of the board) if a pleasent well mannered poster saying "I have a good model" is enough for them, and they will say "Sure it is". What possible reason do tens of people have to lie about it? Get the tin foil out, they are all GW employees, and half of them live in Jervis Johnsons basement.

The lovers see sunlight where there is none, and the haters, as in the case above, absolutely 100% DO see misery and hatred and destruction where there is none, but nobody seems to mention that as much.

Its an embarrassing way for adults to act, and as I said, it always seems to be from the people who own tens of thousands of bucks worth of war-gaming gak.

Basically people that need to go outside a bit more.

**Dysartes**

TBD wrote:Either something looks the way it is supposed to, or it doesn't.

I haven't seen that specific case (or I have but didn't pay attention), but usually it should be pretty clear cut

TBD: Linky, linky

**LadyCassandra**

All those folks asking for pics, and not a single comment about my C'tan Shard. I'm crushed. :(

**Kanluwen**

It looks better than a metal one I painted some years back.

**daedalus**

What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

**Mastiff**

LadyCassandra wrote:All those folks asking for pics, and not a single comment about my C'tan Shard. I'm crushed. :(

It looks very clean, thanks for posting it. That's exactly what I wanted to see. I'd be more likely to take the time to buy that particular model, and have some confidence that either it'll be decent quality, or, if it's not, that calling QC has a chance of returning a good model.

I think resin probably works better for organic forms, where any warping is undetectable, as opposed to models that have sharp, straight edges and planes.

**TBD**

It was right before I posted in that thread too

Makes me sad because I still haven't found a decent Witch Hunter...

Your Arjac certainly looks alright. The pictures are too small for me to be able to see what exactly is going on underneath those circles, but there don't seem to be any real issues. The circled little area on the inside of the shield seems a little off, however not a big deal.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The C'Tan looks good too.

**mattyrm**

daedalus wrote:What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

Exactly, the vast majority of people fall into neither.

**-Loki-**

daedalus wrote:What I don't understand is why there is this "hater"/"lover" mentality? Why's it gotta be us or them extremes?

Can't we just settle for it being sometimes good, sometimes bad, let it die?

The problem with Neutrals is you just don't know what they're thinking.

**Crazyterran**

My Marneus Calgar + Honor Guard / 25th Anniversary marine are pretty much perfect.

I don't have a camera, so no pictures. I plan on getting an emperor's champion to paint as a captain with Storm Shield/Relic Blade. I'll hopefully have some sort of camera by then to show it either way.

**-Loki-**

I keep hearing that other companies don't put out stuff as bad as GW does with Finecast. This was something I bought myself today to use as a Lahmian vampire lord.

The banner has more flaws than the 6 finecast models I've bought so far. Mostly just small air bubbles, but there's a particularly bad spot there a resin pipe was cut and needs to be filed down and resculpted, and there's a huge airbubble along one area (which I saw because of the shiny) that's about 2cm long and 5mm wide.

Still won't return it. I can fix all of this, or it won't be noticeable when I paint it. But so far, aside from Infinity models, I've gotten a miscast from everything non-GW that's metal or resin. My AoW vampiress's hand and head I wanted to use had a massive mold slip, the Wyrd Biet Noir I got for Christmas had a miscast dagger, and now this.

**Vampirate of Sartosa**

Blood and Slaughter wrote:
If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one its really poor. With metal the standard was uniform

This seems sensible. I'd modify it to say: If you get a good
FC mini, then its actually very good indeed. But if you get a poor one it can be really poor. With metal the standard was far more uniform.

Metal figures could be poor but were seldom so. Not many held detail to so fine an extent as good Finecast (I have two Finecast librarians both of which have better definition of fine detail than the metal one I have -- though the metal one was perfectly satisfactory as far as I'm concerned).

...Which is why I prefer Finecast to metal, since if you do get a bad cast, you can get it replaced.

**MetalOxide**

I am going to put my opinion in here... I think that there is nothing wrong with Finecast, I mean, sure there are miscasts, but you get that with metals and plastics in many miniatures companies, not just GW and not every product that a company sells will be flawless, there will always be mistakes, that is inevitable and a part of life.

I do agree however that GW have had trouble with some of their first Finecast minis, but it takes time to master new materials, especially when casting fine, intricate details on miniatures.

My last point is that most of the pictures that have been used as 'evidence' against Finecast have just been the same images regurgitated over and over again, and a very vocal minority. I bet in the grander scheme of things most Finecast miniatures are perfectly okay.

Rant over...

**Pacific**

I have no axe to grind either way, and I hate the kind of polarisation that seems to have happened to the community at the moment. Using terms like 'Finecrap' has directly lead to threads such as this being made and yet even more confrontation.

I mean did anyone read this comment in the opening post:

Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.

Now, right there, that should have made it immediately apparent that there was little point in having any discussion, I'm not going to go into the long list of reasons why. The point of view comes so far out of left-field that it may have been made by an alien called Zarf discussing the merits of playing frisbee on the moons of Saturn, using only ancillary tentacles.

As I have said previously, surely everyone can agree that what most hobbyists want is to have good quality miniatures?

The problem is, there seems to be a propensity towards polarisation, and certain people (on both sides of the 'argument') who seem unable to offer a balanced critique, and so the categories of 'white knight' and 'hater' are made. Think rationally for a moment, who is likely to be really working for GW, or Mantic for example, and would want to sew discord amongst the ranks? The concept is laughable, yet this is an idea that I seem to see implied in some of these posts.

From my own experience of Finecast? I have seen some very good casts (including an Inquisitor who was perfect, a lovely little miniature and nice in the new medium), and some quite bad ones, including an Astorath the Grimm who looked like he had bingo wings. As always I think we have to remove the two extremes - yes, it is not perfect and still has some issues, but at the same time it doesn't mean the world is going to end.

Personally, I would close this thread, and the other 70-odd page one. Open a new one called 'Finecast feedback thread'. Any mention of 'hater', 'white knight' or 'Finecrap' gets removed by the mods, and instead we can try and get a more objective (and less emotionally charged) critique of how the new models are turning out, and more of a general community consensus about them.

As I have said, we are all on the same side here.

**Squigsquasher**

Well said.

**-Loki-**

Pacific wrote:As I have said, we are all on the same side here.

The problem is, being the internet, we're not. I hold the same opinion as you do - it can be good, it should be good, and you have the potential to get a fantastic model, but you also have the potential to get a poor model. Simply because I like the new material, I get called a white knight. hell, I've been stalked across various sub forums by someone trolling every post I make calling me a GW white knight, which started from liking finecast.

Doesn't feel like we're on the same side.

**Kal-El**

Brother Axel wrote:Hey guys and gals!

So, I've been lurking for a long time and read SOOOO many threads about Finecast (Failcast. Failco$t. Failcrapst ETC).

But, I don't think I've seen one that says anything positive about Finecast, and that's a real danm shame tbh.
Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure everyone that has beef about Finecast has their reasons, so I'm here to try and balance it a bit.

Now, before I go on please read this:

LEAVE YOUR HATE OUT OF THIS THREAD.

If you wanna hate, go find one of the 10m threads that already exist bashing on Finecast.
As for the rest of you...

I've bought the following 5 models:

Finecast Librarian in Terminator armour - Flawless.
Finecast Commissar - One of the eyes seemed a bit O.o but tbh, it looks fantastic.
Finecast Chaplain with JC - Again, actually flawless.
Finecast Emperors Champion - No problems anywhere, and this was the first FC I bought the same week Finecast was released.
Finecast Astorath the Grim - The wings were pretty shoddy... So shoddy that I was actually gunna take him back but never got around to it, so I've taken him and converted him. Gunna give him a set of Scourge wings and bish-bash-bosh job done ^-^

So, yeah.
I'm wondering who else is actually genuinely impressed with Finecast?

As a note: I'm gunna address the fact I have a shoddy Astorath model, because I'm sure at least 1 person will argue "you say FC is good, but you have a bad cast? Contradiction MUCH?" Well no, not at all. The GW staff at my store are some of the most helpful, professional and pleasant people I've ever had the courtesy to meet and I know for a fact, each one of them would replace the model in a heartbeat and likely even let me keep the miscast. Several times now I've gone down there with an issue with glue, brushes and files and each time they've handed me a replacement over the till with no questions asked. Two of those times, I didn't even need the product in question!

This is relevant because I believe the FC rage also stems partly from QC and customer service. It's more of an experience, then just a problem with one specific thing. Anyhow, the fact is, yes, it was miscast and yes I kept it. That was my choice and I stand by it.

I am not impressed at all with finecast. I would rather have plastic, metal, or w/e resin Forgeworld used to use. I have had a 50/50 mixture of flawless and flawed...I frown when I find out something is made of this stuff. GW working with us is the only positive I have found.

**Darkness**

TBD wrote:
Darkness wrote:I have had 2 boxes of plague marines, 1 box of seer council, coteaz, draigo, techmarine, all the BA characters and not one issue

We look forward to seeing all of their pictures then.

The thing is (not directed at you but in general), it has happened quite often that someone has claimed "I have this great flawless FC model", only to have people come out of the woodwork and from all over the place spotting bubbles, missing chunks, screwed up details and other mishaps.

So unfortunately experience has shown people's word can not be taken when it comes to this subject. What looks "perfect" to the one apparently is far from it to the other.

I have had a few very good (but not pefect) casts myself, however, and I do usually check a whole bunch of FC models whenever I am at the store(s), about 8/9 out of 10 blisters I have come across have some kind of casting issue that stops me from buying it.

Love the vote of confidence. This thread is clearly not for you then. Experience has taught me that all the issues with finecast are blown out of proportion. None of my finecast pieces have had issues.

As for what is perfect, lets say all but coteaz were for commissioned armies. I guarantee my standards are tougher than 99% of people out there,

Funny thing with the finecast is that most metal modes I have bought have had more issues than the reported finecast issue.

**Janthkin**

Darkness wrote:Funny thing with the finecast is that most metal modes I have bought have had more issues than the reported finecast issue.

This sounds like hyperbole. I own 3 all-metal armies, amounting to hundreds of models, and I can count the number of notable miscasts on one hand. I suppose one of us could just be luckier than the other?

**Pacific**

Funny thing with the finecast is that most metal modes I have bought have had more issues than the reported finecast issue.

Wow, now that is a tall claim!

I think to make a claim that resin offers a better hit/miss ratio than metal I think is stepping a little bit too far - I've collected GW miniatures for over 20 years, through both lead and the inauguration of white metal, and in the hundreds of them that have passed through my hands onto the painting table I don't think I have ever seen a significant miscast, beyond mild flash. Certainly, not a distortion of the high-detail parts of the model, and absolutely nothing like on the scale we are seeing these days.

In the past month or so I've seen personally at least half a dozen miscasts of Finecast that were beyond what most people would deem to be acceptable. In one month. That's not to say that miscast resin is unique to Finecast - I've had Flames of War tanks before which were appalling and had to be returned. More a problem of the medium, which is being exacerbated by GW's apparent use of spin casting and poor grade resin.