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BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Jerjare wrote:Meltacannon: Range 24" str 10 ap1 2D6 armor pen on vehicles hit under center hole.

Right now the meltacannon is pretty mediocre because its barely better than a plasma cannon, which can be taken on an armored sentinel. The platform also competes in FoC with the Vendetta (for similar points too).

Meltacannon?

And that is just horribly unbalanced. Str 10 AP 1 2D6 Pen? Anything under that template is gone.

Not really, Medusa cannon can take bastion breacher shells with the same stat line and a 48" range.

140 points and inaccurate bombing from IG. I'd take the meltacannon over that any day... you put it on a Leman Russ Demolisher and just watch the other army run away in horror.

Be another story if you could somehow have mortar rounds be that powerful considering the size of the marker. I'd love to put my mortars to use.

Gavin Thorne wrote:I like the idea of always S9 Witchblades/Singing Spears. It makes them different from Dark Eldar poison weapons by removing the flat 2+ to wound and still makes them effective against high Toughness units and vehicles.

Giving them Instant Death is an interesting proposal and changes (to a degree) their target priority. As it stands, my biggest complaint with Witchblades is their lack of armor penetration, but making the weapon itself a power weapon would be overpowered. Perhaps add a Warlock power that upgrades the Witchblade to power weapon status for +10 points?

I like the idea of a Farseer power that empowers a Witchblade or Singing Spear to act as AP1 and ignore invulnerable saves for that turn. Requires a psychic test and costs say, +20 points?

It'd be cool to have different Witchblades, like different NFWs. Like Singing Spears, Wraithhammers and Glaives...

Combine it with your idea too.

DemetriDominov wrote:140 points and inaccurate bombing from IG. I'd take the meltacannon over that any day... you put it on a Leman Russ Demolisher and just watch the other army run away in horror.

You can't get meltacannons on anything other than Devil Dogs though, so that wouldn't matter...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DemetriDominov wrote:140 points and inaccurate bombing from IG. I'd take the meltacannon over that any day... you put it on a Leman Russ Demolisher and just watch the other army run away in horror.

You can't get meltacannons on anything other than Devil Dogs though, so that wouldn't matter...

Still, Str 10 AP 1 2D6 pen is an awful idea.

No. Just no.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Still, Str 10 AP 1 2D6 pen is an awful idea.

No. Just no.

Hmmmm... Bastion Breacher Shells? They exist (and they even Blast, just to add to the insult!)!

AtoMaki wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Still, Str 10 AP 1 2D6 pen is an awful idea.

No. Just no.

Hmmmm... Bastion Breacher Shells? They exist (and they even Blast, just to add to the insult!)!

On a poorly armoured vehicle that could be busted by a Bolt Pistol? Reasonable.

On a Bane Wolf? NO.

Also, the phrase "Only slightly better than a Plasma Cannon" is a ridiculous understatement.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Still, Str 10 AP 1 2D6 pen is an awful idea.

No. Just no.

Hmmmm... Bastion Breacher Shells? They exist (and they even Blast, just to add to the insult!)!

On a poorly armoured vehicle that could be busted by a Bolt Pistol? Reasonable.

On a Bane Wolf? NO.

Also, the phrase "Only slightly better than a Plasma Cannon" is a ridiculous understatement.

The Medusa has the same front armour as the Devil Dog and has 24" longer range.

Rippa gun: same shooting profile, but rends in assault and re rolls wounds.

thought of another one

bright lance

str 8 ap 2 heavy 1 lance

lance property changed to counts as ap1 for armor value below 13

origional thought was str 9 like a lascannon but wanted somethign different and to justify cost

SHOT GUNS
strength is not enough i am unimpressed

strength 4 ap 6 assault 2
rending to show how powerful it is

warrior lord wrote:SHOT GUNS
strength is not enough i am unimpressed

strength 4 ap 6 assault 2
rending to show how powerful it is

What kind of magical ammunition is that loaded with?

DarknessEternal wrote:

warrior lord wrote:SHOT GUNS
strength is not enough i am unimpressed

strength 4 ap 6 assault 2
rending to show how powerful it is

What kind of magical ammunition is that loaded with?

Yeah, the strength being the same as an armour piercing explosive micro rocket? I think not.

htj wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

warrior lord wrote:SHOT GUNS
strength is not enough i am unimpressed

strength 4 ap 6 assault 2
rending to show how powerful it is

What kind of magical ammunition is that loaded with?

Yeah, the strength being the same as an armour piercing explosive micro rocket? I think not.

Also, why does it get the same rate of fire as a freaking shoota?

Bonesword: Gets an extra d3 roll of armor penetration.

Reasoning: Warriors with toxin sacs and Bonesword/lashwhip are incredibly good in close combat, but their ineffectiveness against vehicles and insta-death to t8 weapons make it they don't see play. Other troops get access to melta and krak missles, but Tyranids have to hope for rends with Genestealers.

Giving boneswords that extra d3 means they can damage Dreads, and more reliably do something to transports. It also means the Hive Tyrant will get something out of his bone sword. Since he's a MC, the "power weapon" effect is wasted on him. Giving him an extra d3 makes him all the more dangerous, and with his point cost, he should be.

Chainswords - RENDING

Tyrannofex Rupture Cannon - AP3

Venom Cannon - No penalty to vehicle damage chart.

I don't think any would require a points change. Chainswords MAYBE add a point or two.

Meltacannon could use a boost because its on a 120 point platform that competes for cost and FoC with a Vendetta, which gets 3 TL str9 ap2 shots.

Giving the Melta rule to a blast weapon gets a little confusing because they are not clear on whether to account for scatter when determining if its in half distance. I think it would be simpler if the Meltacannon simply did the 'melta' effect in its entire range spectrum, with a bit of a damage boost because remember the CENTER of the blast marker has to hit the vehicle for it to do full damage, otherwise it does half.

At str10 ap1 2D6 armor pen, if it scatters a bit you can still hit a vehicle with str5 ap1 2D6. As it is now if you dont hit the vehicle dead-on, particularly in its effective 'melta' range (12") you're not doing much. As for the difference between str8 and str10, it really only helps vs vehicles; vs nearly everything else there really isnt any benefit barring hitting a wrathlord or something.

Mattlov wrote:Chainswords - RENDING

Tyrannofex Rupture Cannon - AP3

Venom Cannon - No penalty to vehicle damage chart.

I don't think any would require a points change. Chainswords MAYBE add a point or two.

Make it AP2, a Terminator should not have a better chance of ignoring a rupture cannon than a land raider. Impaler cannons should be AP3 and Biocannons AP1.

Jerjare wrote:At str10 ap1 2D6 armor pen, if it scatters a bit you can still hit a vehicle with str5 ap1 2D6. As it is now if you dont hit the vehicle dead-on, particularly in its effective 'melta' range (12") you're not doing much. As for the difference between str8 and str10, it really only helps vs vehicles; vs nearly everything else there really isnt any benefit barring hitting a wrathlord or something.

Again, Str 10 AP 1. You have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting, and then if you 3 or less, you're still hitting. I hate it when people say it's only roughly better than a Plasma Cannon.

Mattlov wrote:
I don't think any would require a points change. Chainswords MAYBE add a point or two.

from other units in the game, Rending is a 4 point upgrade on marine like models.

Exergy wrote:

Mattlov wrote:
I don't think any would require a points change. Chainswords MAYBE add a point or two.

from other units in the game, Rending is a 4 point upgrade on marine like models.

Rending is frequently overpriced as the developers seem to think that it's a magic ointment to improve otherwise mediocre weapons. Generally speaking, Rending is only worthwhile if you're throwing out a lot of attacks. So on a sergeant? Yeah probably only one point. On a squad of vanguard veterans? Probably a bit more.

Kain wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Mattlov wrote:
I don't think any would require a points change. Chainswords MAYBE add a point or two.

from other units in the game, Rending is a 4 point upgrade on marine like models.

Rending is frequently overpriced as the developers seem to think that it's a magic ointment to improve otherwise mediocre weapons. Generally speaking, Rending is only worthwhile if you're throwing out a lot of attacks. So on a sergeant? Yeah probably only one point. On a squad of vanguard veterans? Probably a bit more.

Damn, I have to bring this up again.

A Chainsword mainly kills through sundering power, i.e., cutting off limbs in a hail of blood, whilst a Combat Blade is a weapon that can be plunged deep into an opponent's abdomen in one blow. A strong blow can get through materials of varying thickness, and a Chainsaw can rip through it. I'd say it's currently pretty balanced.