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Grey Templar wrote:Nah, they just realized its much easier to just buy our stuff and persue silly ideological agendas the beat the snot out of each other. They still loath each other, and even more so now that the EU is getting buried in its own debt. meanwhile the Brits are laughing from a safe distance.

Your stuff?
Thought China already owns america

Plus, we told the brits there is a "safe" distance.....

...but.....there is none..

Looking forward to beat the snot out of someone,again. Preferrably small, like luxemburg.
Because we are totally safe, since we get 'smart defence'.

Back to the subject:
Tau are conspirators. Their attempt to ruin the world with a financial crisis has to be stopped. Join the Imperial Guard NOW!

Kroothawk wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Tau lie and cover up everything with a facade of progress - small wonder a disillusioned Farsight turned his back on the Empire.

Farsight was disillusioned that he couldn't massacre at will in the Tau Empire

More because why should the Tau try and help other species when those other species are so xenophobic for good reason.

Tadashi wrote:My Japanese grandmother and my dad (also Japanese, duh) believe Western consumerism has made modern Japanese soft. So yes, they've been ruined by American pheromones.

That makes it more astonishing that you don't get all the Japanese culture inspired facts about tau society, esp. that society>individual thing which is a basic difference between Western and Eastern thinking.

That's not the point. The point is too-much western influences and consumerism has rotted away at Japanese (and by extension, other people's) cultures and nationalities. Not everyone wants to be Americanized you know. The Chinese would die before that would happen, and has anyone noticed the slow but steady rise in popularity of neo-conservatism in Japanese politics?

1hadhq wrote:The continent called europe provides so many civil wars, and none was ended because some formerly unknown persons who have been altered by unknown alien powers stepped in and pacified everyone. At least the flag your sporting here would mean this isn't news for you.

Actually, Western Europe, after several hundred years of war, suddenly with the end of WW2 entered a period of peace lasting until today. So obviously American pheromones that caused this 180 degree turn!

Sophistry. What prevented war in Europe after WWII was simply the need to keep a 'peaceful' Europe as a buffer between the two superpowers, who then proceeded to engage in a campaign of bloody proxy wars across the world. The alternative: nuclear war, nuclear winter, death of at least half of the human population, Europe, most of North Armerica and Northern Eurasia reduced to a radioactive wasteland.

1hadhq wrote:So the conspiracy theory you wanted to tell us about is: everything in 40k is sci-fantasy but Tau are real life?

Just that behaving more or less as the EU in military matters is nothing totally impossible in the future of 40k.

Tadashi wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Tau lie and cover up everything with a facade of progress - small wonder a disillusioned Farsight turned his back on the Empire.

Farsight was disillusioned that he couldn't massacre at will in the Tau Empire

More because why should the Tau try and help other species when those other species are so xenophobic for good reason.

That's rather dumb of farsight. Nearly 50% of the tau codex is stuff that comes directly form alliances. Heck the tau would have destroyed themselves a long time ago if it was for the intervention of an alien race.

nomotog wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Tau lie and cover up everything with a facade of progress - small wonder a disillusioned Farsight turned his back on the Empire.

Farsight was disillusioned that he couldn't massacre at will in the Tau Empire

More because why should the Tau try and help other species when those other species are so xenophobic for good reason.

That's rather dumb of farsight. Nearly 50% of the tau codex is stuff that comes directly form alliances. Heck the tau would have destroyed themselves a long time ago if it was for the intervention of an alien race.

No one intervened. Only some space popes used pheromones to create 180-degree personality shift for the entire species. And Farsight's quite fine with Kroot and Vespid - the ones he doesn't trust are ancient species like Humans and Eldar (among others) who have wandered the stars for millennia before the Tau saw the light of civilization.

Farsight isn't cool with Kroot or Vespid either, you can't take them in his army.

Jefffar wrote:Farsight isn't cool with Kroot or Vespid either, you can't take them in his army.

Strange. That doesn't match the description of the War of Dakka. Just a moment, will check Codex.

EDIT: Oh, I see. Right, the War of Dakka started with Ironteef attacking a Kroot fleet, but since then, the conflict has spread over multiple worlds, including the mainstream Tau Empire and the Farsight Enclaves. I just assumed Farsight was fine with the Kroot and Vespid since the Tau came to the aid of the Kroot. In that case, Farsight prefers a Tau-first policy not unlike the Human, Eldar, and everyone else. My respect for the man has risen even more.

He is more bigoted then you thought and that makes you like him more?

nomotog wrote:He is more bigoted then you thought and that makes you like him more?

Simply because he understands the simple truth that all star-faring civilizations (post-Fall of the Eldar, of course) are incapable of co-existing with each other.

***An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.***

Tadashi wrote:

nomotog wrote:He is more bigoted then you thought and that makes you like him more?

Simply because he understands the simple truth that all star-faring civilizations (post-Fall of the Eldar, of course) are incapable of co-existing with each other.

***An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.***

Indeed, it is apparent that Farsight has the foresight to see that coexistence with xenos is futile.

And to rephrase:

Keep your mind open long enough and someone will come along and stuff some crap into it.

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

nomotog wrote:He is more bigoted then you thought and that makes you like him more?

Simply because he understands the simple truth that all star-faring civilizations (post-Fall of the Eldar, of course) are incapable of co-existing with each other.

***An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.***

Indeed, it is apparent that Farsight has the foresight to see that coexistence with xenos is futile.

And to rephrase:

Keep your mind open long enough and someone will come along and stuff some crap into it.

I can think of four: Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh. Oh, did I mention space popes? Oh wait, Farsight already cleaned his mind of those guys. No worries then.

The biggest Tau Conspiracy

The greater good is the most threatening concept in the universe.
The ethereals are just what they say they are enlightened, visionary , benevolent and wise. It drives space marine and their fan boys crazy because they know a faction that talks sense is going to expose that during their fight against chaos the have all became what they fight, a force for chaos and that revelation will be the end to the IoM. Humanity will throw off the stalinesque yoke of oppression and take their place as willing servants of the greater good and the universe will enter into a new era lead by the Tau which will be marked by cooperation, prosperity and a considerably less grim dark universe.

^Thats actually the biggest joke

Tun_Tau wrote:The biggest Tau Conspiracy

The greater good is the most threatening concept in the universe.
The ethereals are just what they say they are enlightened, visionary , benevolent and wise. It drives space marine and their fan boys crazy because they know a faction that talks sense is going to expose that during their fight against chaos the have all became what they fight, a force for chaos and that revelation will be the end to the IoM. Humanity will throw off the stalinesque yoke of oppression and take their place as willing servants of the greater good and the universe will enter into a new era lead by the Tau which will be marked by cooperation, prosperity and a considerably less grim dark universe.

--- My reaction if this was true---
*Trows BL novels, THQ games and GW codices in trash can*
"Well they ruined that too, time to find a new franchise to satisfy my daily need for grimdark."
*Sets trash can on fire*

You see, this is the biggest problem with single faction players. They get too tied up in racial identification.

Players like myself who play three or more armies (I've had Chaos too at one point before I gave/sold the models to a friend) can simply look at a faction's fluff and enjoy it for what it is, without having to be emotionally invested in it being one way or another. the only reason I even list Space Marines first in order is because I've been working on it recently as a conversion challenge.

Yori wrote:--- My reaction if this was true---
*Trows BL novels, THQ games and GW codices in trash can*
"Well they ruined that too, time to find a new franchise to satisfy my daily need for grimdark."
*Sets trash can on fire*

Or you can sell them on ebay, as they are obviously unread and therefore in pristine condition

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Kroothawk wrote:

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Original Necrons notes: Silent and numerous legions of undead robots bend to destroying all life in service of their C'Tan gods.

Original Grey Knights notes: Elite military force of Inquisition, hate anything daemonic and tend to work and cooperate with the other forces of the Imperium. Military arm of Ordo Malleus.

See how original notes have no meaning whatsoever when fluff changes over the years? I am expecting Tau to be more oppressing toward their allies and xenophobic toward everyone in their next release.

Tun_Tau wrote:The biggest Tau Conspiracy

The greater good is the most threatening concept in the universe.
The ethereals are just what they say they are enlightened, visionary , benevolent and wise. It drives space marine and their fan boys crazy because they know a faction that talks sense is going to expose that during their fight against chaos the have all became what they fight, a force for chaos and that revelation will be the end to the IoM. Humanity will throw off the stalinesque yoke of oppression and take their place as willing servants of the greater good and the universe will enter into a new era lead by the Tau which will be marked by cooperation, prosperity and a considerably less grim dark universe.

BORING.

Brother Coa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.

Original Necrons notes: Silent and numerous legions of undead robots bend to destroying all life in service of their C'Tan gods.

Original Grey Knights notes: Elite military force of Inquisition, hate anything daemonic and tend to work and cooperate with the other forces of the Imperium. Military arm of Ordo Malleus.

See how original notes have no meaning whatsoever when fluff changes over the years? I am expecting Tau to be more oppressing toward their allies and xenophobic toward everyone in their next release.

However, until such time as the codex gets a complete rewrite and turns Fire Warriors into rabid flesh eating ghouls (Not zombies, zombies CANT run) can we not accept the codex at face value, in conjunction with the writers intent that they are altruistic, idealistic and naive. As opposed to they're plotting to take over everything and kill us all, we just don't know the details.

Perhaps we don't know the details because there arn't any?

No offence but there is some major paranoia going on here.

Cheers

Andrew

AndrewC wrote:
However, until such time as the codex gets a complete rewrite and turns Fire Warriors into rabid flesh eating ghouls (Not zombies, zombies CANT run) can we not accept the codex at face value, in conjunction with the writers intent that they are altruistic, idealistic and naive. As opposed to they're plotting to take over everything and kill us all, we just don't know the details.

Perhaps we don't know the details because there arn't any?

No offence but there is some major paranoia going on here.

Cheers

Andrew

It's not paranoia but rumors, rumors about mind-control, race sterilization etc...

Tun_Tau wrote:The biggest Tau Conspiracy

The greater good is the most threatening concept in the universe.
The ethereals are just what they say they are enlightened, visionary , benevolent and wise. It drives space marine and their fan boys crazy because they know a faction that talks sense is going to expose that during their fight against chaos the have all became what they fight, a force for chaos and that revelation will be the end to the IoM. Humanity will throw off the stalinesque yoke of oppression and take their place as willing servants of the greater good and the universe will enter into a new era lead by the Tau which will be marked by cooperation, prosperity and a considerably less grim dark universe.

I loled. A bit of a trolly comment there. You might be taking this a bit to seriously. You sound like an internet popup. Well, to be fair, its no more crazy than anything that brother coa, tadashi or grey templar pulls up daily. It only took 4 pages for this to become a tau hate thread. I think thats a new record. Well done guys!

Just s for the flame god

AndrewC wrote:However, until such time as the codex gets a complete rewrite and turns Fire Warriors into rabid flesh eating ghouls (Not zombies, zombies CANT run) can we not accept the codex at face value, in conjunction with the writers intent that they are altruistic, idealistic and naive.

It isn't completely rewritten to the drastic exagerration you suggest, however the changes have been made.

The problem here is an unwillingness to accept the change, not a lack of change. The design notes from over ten years ago aren't relevant anymore, and that fleeting vision of the Tau has joined the other sublte changes and retcons in irrelevance and memory. Orks used to be brightly colored bikers who roamed around the galaxy on drifting spaceships. Space Marines used to be surgically enhanced tribal savages, hardened criminals and other unsavory types turned into shock troops. The Tau have merely evolved from the simplistic concept they started as, and have become something far more rich, deep, and complex.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

AndrewC wrote:However, until such time as the codex gets a complete rewrite and turns Fire Warriors into rabid flesh eating ghouls (Not zombies, zombies CANT run) can we not accept the codex at face value, in conjunction with the writers intent that they are altruistic, idealistic and naive.

It isn't completely rewritten to the drastic exagerration you suggest, however the changes have been made.

The problem here is an unwillingness to accept the change, not a lack of change. The design notes from over ten years ago aren't relevant anymore, and that fleeting vision of the Tau has joined the other sublte changes and retcons in irrelevance and memory. Orks used to be brightly colored bikers who roamed around the galaxy on drifting spaceships. Space Marines used to be surgically enhanced tribal savages, hardened criminals and other unsavory types turned into shock troops. The Tau have merely evolved from the simplistic concept they started as, and have become something far more rich, deep, and complex.

wait what changes? the only ones I have heard of for the new codex is the thing about the tau being the secret to defeating chaos. They were discovered by the emperor years ago, before the horus heresy, and now they are fully evolved and the ultramarines are supposed to protect them. That's the only rumor I have heard about updating the tau

Veteran Sergeant wrote:It isn't completely rewritten to the drastic exagerration you suggest, however the changes have been made.

The problem here is an unwillingness to accept the change, not a lack of change. The design notes from over ten years ago aren't relevant anymore, and that fleeting vision of the Tau has joined the other sublte changes and retcons in irrelevance and memory. Orks used to be brightly colored bikers who roamed around the galaxy on drifting spaceships. Space Marines used to be surgically enhanced tribal savages, hardened criminals and other unsavory types turned into shock troops. The Tau have merely evolved from the simplistic concept they started as, and have become something far more rich, deep, and complex.

No it's not been rewritten to that extent, but that seems to be the sort of rewrite that some posters want.

There isn't an unwillingness to accept change, as you point out the change is there. That first inch has been given by GW to those fans who don't like the idea of a 'good' faction. But rather than accept that inch they are running the proverbial mile with it.

The new Tau Codex is there, I don't think anyone doubts that, but until we see what is contained in it, taking unsubstantiated rumours and promoting it as fact doesn't help the issue. I just hope that they havn't taken the Tau and turned them into those ghouls I mentioned earlier.

Look at some of the other threads and the outcry over the idea that SMs must protect the Tau? Some of the most voluble outcry against that change are SM players, who are just a voluble in demanding such a fundemental change to Tau.

Lets wait and see what 6th Ed and the new codex bring us before getting up in arms?

Cheers

Andrew

If they give you an inch, take a mile. If they give you a mile, take Poland.

If you tak Poland might as well take the rest of Europe, but I fail to see what references to the appeasement of Hitler do here other than paint other posters in a bad light.


I like the current codex's approach of the Tau seeming good but there being enough hints and rumours that it is very possible they are far from it. If a faction is unquestionably good their concept becomes too shallow to keep them interesting. The same happens to a faction that is undeniably evil.

Look at the necrons, they were about as one dimensionally evil in 3rd as the Tau were one dimensionally good. Now both they and the Tau are far more nuanced and interesting. Yes the necrons are still evil, but there is personality, tragedy and even honor giving them more life as a faction.

The Tau need this too. They must appear as good as the necrons appear evil, yet they must also have enough depth and shadow to be interesting. They need to be a good faction for a universe that only has good men, not good factions.

Tadashi wrote:BORING.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:The design notes from over ten years ago aren't relevant anymore (...)
The Tau have merely evolved from the simplistic concept they started as, and have become something far more rich, deep, and complex.

If GW really followed the will of all Tau haters and made Tau just another rabid massacre happy race of psychopaths ("Arrrrgh, must kill everything in sight!"), would that be less boring and make the race deeper and more interesting? I guess not.

But I agree that facts and the explicitely stated intention of GW designers are of little importance to Tau haters.

Do you have to hate Tau to accept that the implication of The Greater Bad lurking behind the The Greater Good, or do you have to be a die hard Tau fanboy to deny it exists?



Relying on hyperbole doesn't really help your case. I certainly haven't said that the ethereals being sneaky, oppressive dickbags with an aggressive expansionist philosophy makes the Tau race full of mindless killers. Certainly the Tau seem ready and willing to take nonviolent measures to secure their objectives. And certainly the average Tau honestly believes in The Greater Good. They just don't realize it is a lie.

Kroothawk wrote:

Tadashi wrote:BORING.

If GW really followed the will of all Tau haters and made Tau just another rabid massacre happy race of psychopaths ("Arrrrgh, must kill everything in sight!"), would that be less boring and make the race deeper and more interesting? I guess not.

Not really. Just go flat out and reveal the Ethereals use mind control and pheromones - that would satisfy me, showing that the Greater Good is just a cover-up to keep the Ethereals in power. Noblebright is really boring, you know. Most of the more successful games these days - Command and Conquer, Starcraft, Mass Effect - are grimdark.

Leave it unconfirmed, but with enough evidence that the Tau can be Good, manipulated fools or Evil.