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ShumaGorath wrote:

Although Apple currently leads the Tablet market, laptops and cellphones are far more prevalent.

The fact that some people are willing to buy ipads for the purpose of reading codicies shows why miniature wargames cost so much. Gamers are nuts.

There is no monetized ebook format on PCs. Why do people keep thinking that the prevalence of PCs matters? GW would make no money and its products would be pirated heavily if it started releasing high quality PDFs of it's print books.

There most certainly are monetized ebook formats on PCs. It includes the Kindle PC app, Sony reader for PC, Microsoft reader, Google ebooks, etc.

spaceelf wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Although Apple currently leads the Tablet market, laptops and cellphones are far more prevalent.

The fact that some people are willing to buy ipads for the purpose of reading codicies shows why miniature wargames cost so much. Gamers are nuts.

There is no monetized ebook format on PCs. Why do people keep thinking that the prevalence of PCs matters? GW would make no money and its products would be pirated heavily if it started releasing high quality PDFs of it's print books.

There most certainly are monetized ebook formats on PCs. It includes the Kindle PC app, Sony reader for PC, Microsoft reader, Google ebooks, etc.

Now show me some sales metrics that make those anything other than the novelties designed to support the mobile ecosystem that they are. After that find examples of rich media content pushed to those services making a profit or large print gaming books published there without impacting physical sales due to piracy. You won't. Those markets are microscopic and they aren't the ones GW are in.

ShumaGorath wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Although Apple currently leads the Tablet market, laptops and cellphones are far more prevalent.

The fact that some people are willing to buy ipads for the purpose of reading codicies shows why miniature wargames cost so much. Gamers are nuts.

There is no monetized ebook format on PCs. Why do people keep thinking that the prevalence of PCs matters? GW would make no money and its products would be pirated heavily if it started releasing high quality PDFs of it's print books.

There most certainly are monetized ebook formats on PCs. It includes the Kindle PC app, Sony reader for PC, Microsoft reader, Google ebooks, etc.

Now show me some sales metrics that make those anything other than the novelties designed to support the mobile ecosystem that they are. After that find examples of rich media content pushed to those services making a profit or large print gaming books published there without impacting physical sales due to piracy. You won't. Those markets are microscopic and they aren't the ones GW are in.

Beaten to the punch by Shuma. All of those "PC" formats are mobile formats that are also available on PCs. Usually the PC apps are made as an afterthought so mobile users can access their purchases. No way are they intended as an independent revenue stream.

ShumaGorath wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Although Apple currently leads the Tablet market, laptops and cellphones are far more prevalent.

The fact that some people are willing to buy ipads for the purpose of reading codicies shows why miniature wargames cost so much. Gamers are nuts.

There is no monetized ebook format on PCs. Why do people keep thinking that the prevalence of PCs matters? GW would make no money and its products would be pirated heavily if it started releasing high quality PDFs of it's print books.

There most certainly are monetized ebook formats on PCs. It includes the Kindle PC app, Sony reader for PC, Microsoft reader, Google ebooks, etc.

Now show me some sales metrics that make those anything other than the novelties designed to support the mobile ecosystem that they are. After that find examples of rich media content pushed to those services making a profit or large print gaming books published there without impacting physical sales due to piracy. You won't. Those markets are microscopic and they aren't the ones GW are in.

The fact stands that a publisher can create an electronic document which is viewable on PCs, and sell that document through major online retailers such as Google, Amazon, and Sony. Many name authors and publishers do so and make a hefty profit.

It is my understanding that the current generation of ebook formats support rich media. These include epub.

Although piracy is a concern to publishers, Apple's software is not pirate proof. GWs ebooks would have been safe enough being distributed through Amazon.

The fact of the matter is the GW chose Apple, and in so doing lost lots of potential customers.

spaceelf wrote:
...snip...
The fact of the matter is the GW chose Apple, and in so doing lost lots of potential customers.

I think you are missing 2 parts.

First, there is almost no reason to publish to a PC format. One of the major reasons for doing an ebook is so that you can have all of the rules with you when you are at the game store. It's unlikely you'll want to lug that PC (or even most laptops) around; and if you are home bound with it, then why would you buy an ebook anyway? Just get the physical codex.

Second iPad dominates the market, so that is exactly where you start with a "new" product. Android has issues, lots of them. It is fractured to the point that you have to work much harder to ensure an acceptable level of quality across so many devices with varying capabilities. Because of that there is no way I'd ever consider starting with Android when getting into mobile. The next closest thing is a Kindle.. which has a lot of device limitations.. and a much much smaller share of the market.

So, no, GW didn't "lose" lots of potential customers by choosing Apple. They hit the largest part of the market by choosing them and delivering a product that uses a great portion of the feature set available to them for that format.

spaceelf wrote:
...snip...
It is my understanding that the current generation of ebook formats support rich media. These include epub.

Whether a format supports rich media or not is not really germane. The real question is whether the device itself does. Kindle Fire, for example, doesn't support ePub. ePub has to be converted into something it does understand... and every time you convert a file you are going to lose something.

The fact stands that a publisher can create an electronic document which is viewable on PCs, and sell that document through major online retailers such as Google, Amazon, and Sony. Many name authors and publishers do so and make a hefty profit.

No, many authors sell books to the mobile markets that those companies serve. That they are viewable on a PC isn't even a consideration. There is no market for digital books to PCs. Without tablets none of this would exist (and didn't before e-readers).

It is my understanding that the current generation of ebook formats support rich media. These include epub.

And not all tablets can utilize rich media content delivered in ePub format. Very few E-ink display devices can use rich media formatted E-pub books (very few being none). After amazon and sonys ereader market, the iPad and the kindle fire there is almost no such thing as a digital book market. The android book market is almost a joke. It's as fractured and filled with spamware and fremium values as the actual android marketplace.

You have a very inaccurate read on the state of digital books.

Although piracy is a concern to publishers, Apple's software is not pirate proof. GWs ebooks would have been safe enough being distributed through Amazon.

To my knowledge there is no current method to pirate iBooks outside of rooting an apple device or running it in a virtualized developers kit environment. Neither of these things lend themselves to mass piracy and both require above average technical skill.

The fact of the matter is the GW chose Apple, and in so doing lost lots of potential customers.

They also could of filled the books with porn or simply mailed people burgers with their purchase. The iBook format is the only respectable current rich media format for books. It's the largest, safest, and easiest marketplace to enter. That's the end of the story.

Android users: wanting to be hipster by using an open source operating system that has been adapted for multiple devices and hardware platforms in order to stick it to the man who keeps tight control over how iOS is implemented. They can tinker around with it all they want and make any modifications that they want.

They they get angry when something is released on the one stable medium where GW knows it will work on every device out there.

Hey!

I got my Droid phone because it's awesome, not because I'm some silly hipster. Still, why would you want to read a codex on your phone. That's just silly.

I had a droid for two years, main reason I switched to the iPhone was because we had an iPad already and a couple iPods (including the touch). So for us it was just easier to have everything be one system.

Tablets have the same problem with being fragmented into different hardware and software builds though.

ShumaGorath wrote:There is no market for digital books to PCs.

Counter-point: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/

I have had a Droid phone for the last few years and prefer it to an iPhone.


But Tablets are a different animal to Phones.

The only reason i am annoyed about the new stuff being on an iPad is that i can't afford one. But i am tempted to splash out just so i can get the digi-dexes.

I can only imagine that this is the first step towards everythgin being put out digitally in the future, possibel with an eye to gettign rid of hardcopy books altogether? i suppose going all digital woudl save GW a lot of money in printing, shipping etc.

Chrysis wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:There is no market for digital books to PCs.

Counter-point: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/

Counter-point: http://www.alexa.com/search?q=http%3A%2F%2Frpg.drivethrustuff.com&r=home_home&p=bigtop

Chrysis wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:There is no market for digital books to PCs.

Counter-point: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/

I don't even understand how that site is a counterpoint. Because it lets you download PDFs? Which are viewable on tablets. It's not a PC-proprietary format or anything, which would add weight to the argument that PCs can be a platform on their own. All of those formats on the site are perfectly capable of being downloaded to and read by my iPad. There's nothing on that site that implies PCs are even their main revenue stream.

clively wrote:

spaceelf wrote:
...snip...
The fact of the matter is the GW chose Apple, and in so doing lost lots of potential customers.

I think you are missing 2 parts.

First, there is almost no reason to publish to a PC format. One of the major reasons for doing an ebook is so that you can have all of the rules with you when you are at the game store. It's unlikely you'll want to lug that PC (or even most laptops) around; and if you are home bound with it, then why would you buy an ebook anyway? Just get the physical codex.

I have seen people use laptops during games at my FLGS. Some netbooks are not much larger than the ipad. Also, some people play at home, and thus the computer is not lugged anywhere.

clively wrote:
Second iPad dominates the market, so that is exactly where you start with a "new" product. Android has issues, lots of them. It is fractured to the point that you have to work much harder to ensure an acceptable level of quality across so many devices with varying capabilities. Because of that there is no way I'd ever consider starting with Android when getting into mobile. The next closest thing is a Kindle.. which has a lot of device limitations.. and a much much smaller share of the market.

So, no, GW didn't "lose" lots of potential customers by choosing Apple. They hit the largest part of the market by choosing them and delivering a product that uses a great portion of the feature set available to them for that format.

My point is that there are many people that have PCs that do not have ipads. GW has potentially lost those customers. They could have published in a format that is readable on all devices.

spaceelf wrote:
...snip...
It is my understanding that the current generation of ebook formats support rich media. These include epub.

clively wrote:
Whether a format supports rich media or not is not really germane. The real question is whether the device itself does. Kindle Fire, for example, doesn't support ePub. ePub has to be converted into something it does understand... and every time you convert a file you are going to lose something.

It is my understanding that the Kindle Fire supports rich media.

spaceelf wrote:
The fact stands that a publisher can create an electronic document which is viewable on PCs, and sell that document through major online retailers such as Google, Amazon, and Sony. Many name authors and publishers do so and make a hefty profit.

ShumaGorath wrote:
No, many authors sell books to the mobile markets that those companies serve. That they are viewable on a PC isn't even a consideration. There is no market for digital books to PCs. Without tablets none of this would exist (and didn't before e-readers).

Sony, Amazon, Google, etc. would not have developed apps for the PC if there was no one wanted to read the files on their PCs. Clearly, there is a market for the GW codex outside of the ipad, as has been demonstrated on this thread. Given that most people have PCs, it would be logical to support the system.

spaceelf wrote:
It is my understanding that the current generation of ebook formats support rich media. These include epub.

ShumaGorath wrote:
And not all tablets can utilize rich media content delivered in ePub format. Very few E-ink display devices can use rich media formatted E-pub books (very few being none). After amazon and sonys ereader market, the iPad and the kindle fire there is almost no such thing as a digital book market. The android book market is almost a joke. It's as fractured and filled with spamware and fremium values as the actual android marketplace.

You have a very inaccurate read on the state of digital books.

I was responding to your previous point, about formats that supported rich media. There are lots of them, Apple is certainly not the only one. Thus, my point about PCs stands. You can create a secure rich media document which is readable on PCs, and sell that document through major retailers.

spaceelf wrote:
Although piracy is a concern to publishers, Apple's software is not pirate proof. GWs ebooks would have been safe enough being distributed through Amazon.

ShumaGorath wrote:
To my knowledge there is no current method to pirate iBooks outside of rooting an apple device or running it in a virtualized developers kit environment. Neither of these things lend themselves to mass piracy and both require above average technical skill.

Like many of your comments you did not respond to my main point. GWs ebooks would have been safe enough being distributed through Amazon. And it is possible to pirate an iBook. Once it has been 'unlocked' it can be distributed as easily as any file.

spaceelf wrote:
The fact of the matter is the GW chose Apple, and in so doing lost lots of potential customers.

ShumaGorath wrote:
They also could of filled the books with porn or simply mailed people burgers with their purchase. The iBook format is the only respectable current rich media format for books. It's the largest, safest, and easiest marketplace to enter. That's the end of the story.

Amazon and many other companies would take exception to your statement about the respectable format.

Sony, Amazon, Google, etc. would not have developed apps for the PC if there was no one wanted to read the files on their PCs. Clearly, there is a market for the GW codex outside of the ipad, as has been demonstrated on this thread. Given that most people have PCs, it would be logical to support the system.

Sure they would. They even did. And no, it's not logical to support PCs. There is no market for monetized rich media interactive content to PCs outside of the educational space. It doesn't exist. You can point to apps that would allow for it to exist all you want, and indeed it's all you seem to be doing. Possibility doesn't imply actuality. Go look at how much these companies are making and where. For the most part PC reader app markets are an afterthought to fluff up "app numbers" in cross device markets. No one actually buys them for PCs.

I was responding to your previous point, about formats that supported rich media. There are lots of them, Apple is certainly not the only one. Thus, my point about PCs stands. You can create a secure rich media document which is readable on PCs, and sell that document through major retailers.

And no one will buy it as is demonstrated by their posted revenue. You can actually look up how well these industries are doing, you know.

Amazon and many other companies would take exception to your statement about the respectable format.

Amazon sells books for Eink displays. Not rich or interactive media content. Any steps they have moved into that space are tentative at best and are likely still loss leaders for them. I'm not sure you even know what these terms mean.

Sony, Amazon, Google, etc. would not have developed apps for the PC if there was no one wanted to read the files on their PCs. Clearly, there is a market for the GW codex outside of the ipad, as has been demonstrated on this thread. Given that most people have PCs, it would be logical to support the system.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Sure they would. They even did. And no, it's not logical to support PCs. There is no market for monetized rich media interactive content to PCs outside of the educational space. It doesn't exist. You can point to apps that would allow for it to exist all you want, and indeed it's all you seem to be doing. Possibility doesn't imply actuality. Go look at how much these companies are making and where. For the most part PC reader app markets are an afterthought to fluff up "app numbers" in cross device markets. No one actually buys them for PCs.

At first you said that there was no monetized ebook format on PCs. Now you admit that in the educational space that there is an ebook market on PCs.

I was responding to your previous point, about formats that supported rich media. There are lots of them, Apple is certainly not the only one. Thus, my point about PCs stands. You can create a secure rich media document which is readable on PCs, and sell that document through major retailers.

ShumaGorath wrote:
And no one will buy it as is demonstrated by their posted revenue. You can actually look up how well these industries are doing, you know.

The monetezation schemes are still rather new for rich media. Thus looking at old numbers is not necessarily indicative of future performance.

Amazon and many other companies would take exception to your statement about the respectable format.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Amazon sells books for Eink displays. Not rich or interactive media content. Any steps they have moved into that space are tentative at best and are likely still loss leaders for them. I'm not sure you even know what these terms mean.

I am most certainly aware of the meaning of rich media, etc. Amazon also has the Kindle Fire, which does not have an e-ink screen. Amazon's format supports rich media.

At first you said that there was no monetized ebook format on PCs. Now you admit that in the educational space that there is an ebook market on PCs.

Yeah, for university level research documents. Please don't act like you've caught a fish or something. I was just being accurate. It has truly no bearing and doesn't make you correct at all.

The monetezation schemes are still rather new for rich media. Thus looking at old numbers is not necessarily indicative of future performance.

You have clearly demonstrated that you don't know what the term "rich media" means.

I am most certainly aware of the meaning of rich media, etc. Amazon also has the Kindle Fire, which does not have an e-ink screen. Amazon's format supports rich media.

No you don't. Else you wouldn't of repeatedly implied PDFs were a rich media format. Also, amazon doesn't "have a format" and puts out digital books in over a dozen different formats. You have plainly demonstrated that you simply don't know anything about these industries. I'm going to stop bothering with this thread now, I have no interest in arguing with someone making up their knowledge on the spot.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Let me post this one again.





There is no monetized ebook format for non mobile devices so the PC argument is entirely irrelevant. They're not going to give it to you for free, stop wanting it for free. Android users don't buy things. The market is a mess, it's heavily fragmented in OS (there are at least five major regional north american markets) and the device fragmentation features literally thousands of different devices with different hardware. No one goes android first, it's a loss leader. Android users don't buy things and the copy protection is almost nil.

Maybe you should use a research company that is not partnered with Apple.

IMS Research is owned by IHS Inc.

IHS Inc. is partenerd with Apple.

A quick interenet search will show this, though the fact that both IMS Research and IHS Inc. Home pages kinda hint at this in a not so subtle manner.


Here is a page from an independent research group: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=independent+research+into+tablet+market+share&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CGUQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmobithinking.com%2Fmobile-marketing-tools%2Flatest-mobile-stats%2Fa&ei=JOn9T-CZNsOA2wXLpImpDg&usg=AFQjCNEEO_LkQFprcO571wbUDjg9T7vGPQ

This page shows a steady growth of non apple products in the Tablet area and that Nokia and Samsung continue to dominate in the mobile phone sector.

Samsung dominates in the smart phone sector.

Apples market share in the Tablets has steadily declined and is now sitting at roughly 50%.

This market share will most likely get a short term boost with their next ios release but, in the long term they look to continue to lose market share due to Microsoft starting their 5star program where they will release their own tablets rather than just vending their OS to manufactures.

Later

focusedfire wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:
Let me post this one again.





There is no monetized ebook format for non mobile devices so the PC argument is entirely irrelevant. They're not going to give it to you for free, stop wanting it for free. Android users don't buy things. The market is a mess, it's heavily fragmented in OS (there are at least five major regional north american markets) and the device fragmentation features literally thousands of different devices with different hardware. No one goes android first, it's a loss leader. Android users don't buy things and the copy protection is almost nil.

Maybe you should use a research company that is not partnered with Apple.

IMS Research is owned by IHS Inc.

IHS Inc. is partenerd with Apple.

A quick interenet search will show this, though the fact that both IMS Research and IHS Inc. Home pages kinda hint at this in a not so subtle manner.


Here is a page from an independent research group: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=independent+research+into+tablet+market+share&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CGUQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmobithinking.com%2Fmobile-marketing-tools%2Flatest-mobile-stats%2Fa&ei=JOn9T-CZNsOA2wXLpImpDg&usg=AFQjCNEEO_LkQFprcO571wbUDjg9T7vGPQ

This page shows a steady growth of non apple products in the Tablet area and that Nokia and Samsung continue to dominate in the mobile phone sector.

Samsung dominates in the smart phone sector.

Apples market share in the Tablets has steadily declined and is now sitting at roughly 50%.

This market share will most likely get a short term boost with their next ios release but, in the long term they look to continue to lose market share due to Microsoft starting their 5star program where they will release their own tablets rather than just vending their OS to manufactures.

Later

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
We're talking about books, not symbian.

The monetezation schemes are still rather new for rich media. Thus looking at old numbers is not necessarily indicative of future performance.

ShumaGorath wrote:
You have clearly demonstrated that you don't know what the term "rich media" means.

I am most certainly aware of the meaning of rich media, etc. Amazon also has the Kindle Fire, which does not have an e-ink screen. Amazon's format supports rich media.

ShumaGorath wrote:
No you don't. Else you wouldn't of repeatedly implied PDFs were a rich media format.

I do not think that I ever mentioned the term PDF, let alone implied that PDFs were a rich media format. I am aware that rich media include video and interactive content that cannot be displayed on e-ink screens because of their abysmally slow refresh rate.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Also, amazon doesn't "have a format" and puts out digital books in over a dozen different formats.

Amazon most certainly 'has' the AZW format, as they created it.

ShumaGorath wrote:
You have plainly demonstrated that you simply don't know anything about these industries. I'm going to stop bothering with this thread now, I have no interest in arguing with someone making up their knowledge on the spot.

If you have no interest in arguing then you are free to stop.

I would like to see GW codicies available on PCs, and devices other than the ipad. I suspect that there are many other people with the same opinion. To say that it cannot be done because there is not a market is rubbish, as there is a market. To say that there are not other secure file formats is also equally false, as there are many such formats.

ShumaGorath wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
We're talking about books, not symbian.

You're the one that fetched tablet sales data into this discussion - focusedfire appeared to merely be pointing out that the data may be suspect, and that trend data indicates further shrinkage of Apple's market share is likely.

At no point was Symbian even mentioned in ff's post, so your dismissal appears entirely irrelevant.

Of course, the mix of Apple & GW fan boy-ism isn't pleasant to watch.

ShumaGorath wrote:

focusedfire wrote:
Maybe you should use a research company that is not partnered with Apple.

IMS Research is owned by IHS Inc.

IHS Inc. is partenerd with Apple.

A quick interenet search will show this, though the fact that both IMS Research and IHS Inc. Home pages kinda hint at this in a not so subtle manner.


Here is a page from an independent research group: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=independent+research+into+tablet+market+share&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CGUQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmobithinking.com%2Fmobile-marketing-tools%2Flatest-mobile-stats%2Fa&ei=JOn9T-CZNsOA2wXLpImpDg&usg=AFQjCNEEO_LkQFprcO571wbUDjg9T7vGPQ

This page shows a steady growth of non apple products in the Tablet area and that Nokia and Samsung continue to dominate in the mobile phone sector.

Samsung dominates in the smart phone sector.

Apples market share in the Tablets has steadily declined and is now sitting at roughly 50%.

This market share will most likely get a short term boost with their next ios release but, in the long term they look to continue to lose market share due to Microsoft starting their 5star program where they will release their own tablets rather than just vending their OS to manufactures.

Later

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
We're talking about books, not symbian.

Yeah, being snide through insinuation only lessens how people view your credibility. Nor, does your being insulting change the fact that your source is by no means credible.

BTW, You are coming across as a bit of an iphone/tablet fanboi.


If you want to discuss ebooks and market share, then it is amazon selling the most and PC based systems that own the market.

Here is more independent research into the "current" market: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ebook+market+share+2012&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CE8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-digital-reader.com%2F2012%2F03%2F20%2Fbowker-amazon-dominates-the-world-ebook-market%2F&ei=E_j9T7KKOZKl2AXC742uDw&usg=AFQjCNG_xiyNzStZ4teJpLX0E_F4IBuYIA" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ebook+market+share+2012&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CE8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-digital-reader.com%2F2012%2F03%2F20%2Fbowker-amazon-dominates-the-world-ebook-market%2F&ei=E_j9T7KKOZKl2AXC742uDw&usg=AFQjCNG_xiyNzStZ4teJpLX0E_F4IBuYIA

and

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2012/ipad-e-reading-market-share-stagnates-as-tablet-e-reading-rises/

Dysartes wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
We're talking about books, not symbian.

You're the one that fetched tablet sales data into this discussion - focusedfire appeared to merely be pointing out that the data may be suspect, and that trend data indicates further shrinkage of Apple's market share is likely.

At no point was Symbian even mentioned in ff's post, so your dismissal appears entirely irrelevant.

Of course, the mix of Apple & GW fan boy-ism isn't pleasant to watch.

Nokia produces phones using the Symbian OS (for now). That was 50% of his competitive examples. If he wants to talk about projected markets thats cute, but he's just grabbing top google results to try and stress the same irrelevant points he's been making for pages. He's not doing it in a way that shows actual insight on the topic and he's making mistakes repeatedly that betray that he's just skimming and copy pasting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

focusedfire wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

focusedfire wrote:
Maybe you should use a research company that is not partnered with Apple.

IMS Research is owned by IHS Inc.

IHS Inc. is partenerd with Apple.

A quick interenet search will show this, though the fact that both IMS Research and IHS Inc. Home pages kinda hint at this in a not so subtle manner.


Here is a page from an independent research group: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=independent+research+into+tablet+market+share&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CGUQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmobithinking.com%2Fmobile-marketing-tools%2Flatest-mobile-stats%2Fa&ei=JOn9T-CZNsOA2wXLpImpDg&usg=AFQjCNEEO_LkQFprcO571wbUDjg9T7vGPQ

This page shows a steady growth of non apple products in the Tablet area and that Nokia and Samsung continue to dominate in the mobile phone sector.

Samsung dominates in the smart phone sector.

Apples market share in the Tablets has steadily declined and is now sitting at roughly 50%.

This market share will most likely get a short term boost with their next ios release but, in the long term they look to continue to lose market share due to Microsoft starting their 5star program where they will release their own tablets rather than just vending their OS to manufactures.

Later

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation
We're talking about books, not symbian.

Yeah, being snide through insinuation only lessens how people view your credibility. Nor, does your being insulting change the fact that your source is by no means credible.

BTW, You are coming across as a bit of an iphone/tablet fanboi.


If you want to discuss ebooks and market share, then it is amazon selling the most and PC based systems that own the market.

Here is more independent research into the "current" market: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ebook+market+share+2012&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CE8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-digital-reader.com%2F2012%2F03%2F20%2Fbowker-amazon-dominates-the-world-ebook-market%2F&ei=E_j9T7KKOZKl2AXC742uDw&usg=AFQjCNG_xiyNzStZ4teJpLX0E_F4IBuYIA" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ebook+market+share+2012&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CE8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-digital-reader.com%2F2012%2F03%2F20%2Fbowker-amazon-dominates-the-world-ebook-market%2F&ei=E_j9T7KKOZKl2AXC742uDw&usg=AFQjCNG_xiyNzStZ4teJpLX0E_F4IBuYIA

and

http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2012/ipad-e-reading-market-share-stagnates-as-tablet-e-reading-rises/

Yes, thats the Ereader market, not the PC market. You really seem hungup in trying to hamfist that boondoggle right down everyones throats. Stop trying to establish causation through correlation. If you want to say that "E-ink display based ebooks are the dominant market for digital reading" then you're right. It's also not what GW is producing as a product and that market doesn't accept rich media content. That market also isn't the "PC market". Just because they can be purchased on the PC doesn't mean thats where anything even close to a meaningful percentage of the books are being used.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Nokia produces phones using the Symbian OS (for now). That was 50% of his competitive examples. If he wants to talk about projected markets thats cute, but he's just grabbing top google results to try and stress the same irrelevant points he's been making for pages. He's not doing it in a way that shows actual insight on the topic and he's making mistakes repeatedly that betray that he's just skimming and copy pasting.

Dude, stop right there, you just lost any credibility.

This is the first page that I posted in and you were referencing my first post.

This lie, in combination with your being insulting and now constantly trying to obfuscate that your position and source were not credible, means that most here now know that you should not listened to/ "ignored".

Chart says Tablet PC's not E-reader.

Kindle Fire, the only product that Amazon makes that resembles a Tablet PC, was released on November 15, 2011.

So according to this chart from Nov 15 to Dec 31st Amazon grabed 7% of the market in 45 days. I wonder how much more that's grown in the last 7 months.

In any case, since I pretty much refuse to by anything Apple makes for a multitude of reasons, I'll just scan my legally purchased Codex into a nice PDF and upload it to my Kindle Fire.
The money I saved ($200 from the Ipad and $75 from the codex I'll put towards buying new models)

focusedfire wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Nokia produces phones using the Symbian OS (for now). That was 50% of his competitive examples. If he wants to talk about projected markets thats cute, but he's just grabbing top google results to try and stress the same irrelevant points he's been making for pages. He's not doing it in a way that shows actual insight on the topic and he's making mistakes repeatedly that betray that he's just skimming and copy pasting.

Dude, stop right there, you just lost any credibility.

This is the first page that I posted in and you were referencing my first post.

This lie, in combination with your being insulting and now constantly trying to obfuscate that your position and source were not credible, means that most here now know that you should not listened to/ "ignored".

Oh, yeah, you're right. I had been confusing you and SpaceElf. My bad. At a point all of the samey arguments started to meld together and I started attributing things to people that didn't state them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

adamsouza wrote:

Chart says Tablet PC's not E-reader.

Kindle Fire, the only product that Amazon makes that resembles a Tablet PC, was released on November 15, 2011.

So according to this chart from Nov 15 to Dec 31st Amazon grabed 7% of the market in 45 days. I wonder how much more that's grown in the last 7 months.

In any case, since I pretty much refuse to by anything Apple makes for a multitude of reasons, I'll just scan my legally purchased Codex into a nice PDF and upload it to my Kindle Fire.
The money I saved ($200 from the Ipad and $75 from the codex I'll put towards buying new models)

That graphs shipments, not ownership. That means that in 45 days they managed to be 7% of the tablets shipped that quarter. Not 7% of tablets in homes. That graph also doesn't establish whether these were tablets "shipped" or "sold".

I think some important points are being left out of the discussion of market share.

If iPad owners are viewed as foolish people with too much disposable income, then that's exactly the target market for GW. Why would GW want to market towards devices marketed towards "reasonable" people as affordable?

You don't make money marketing an expensive hobby to reasonable people.

I can understand them releasing the fully interactive codecies on iPad, but it woudl be nice if they also released a plain old PDF version for those of us who can't afford an iPad.

i realise you can get them....but an actual proper PDF )rather than a PDF of a scanned page) that you could run searches on for referenece woudl be great.

Has anyone actually looked at the digital necron codex here? Still curious if it contains any new rules based material.

Apparently it confirms the Hyperphase sword as being AP3. Other than that i dont think it solves anything (doesn't answer the "no embarking on a nightscythe" or "Mind in the machine from a CCB" questions).