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l0k1 wrote:Didn't Necrons glance vehicles to death in 3rd or 4th edition too? Almost positive they did this in a previous edition.

Back in 4th Necrons were one of the kings of vehicle death (AFAIK). But I also hear that in 4th, vehicles were deathtraps anyway unless you had god-falcons or the like.

Yeah, although in 4th they needed 6 glances to wreck a vehicle. Now they only need 3-4.

And its a garunteed wreck. In 4th you still had a chance of rolling a bunch of useless results. Now its 3 glances = dead(unless your a LR)

Ah, I see. So they could still do it but in 6th edition they do it faster.

After some furious 9 hrs of playing yesterday, I'm still struggling against necrons the most. I'm almost convinced that I need to hide a hydra wayyy in the corner behind aegis defense lines and pay for cammo netting along with a techmarine for my dreads. Definately need my quad guns.

There are a lot of skimmers - tau/eldar/dark eldar, even other GK, and SM have some usually. Heck only stuff like razorspam blood angels or wolves or maybe foot orks don't follow that and our infantry usually does ok with that.

I'm highly favoring more shooty options with more of a counter attack type of build and so far I've had as much successess with GK+IG as a pure GK + some psychic powers so they are quite just for flavor as far as I can tell.

Necrons of course really tear things up badly. I don't have any tau in the area to play against so I can't tell how they'd stack up.

I got a sinking feeling that it's gonna take me at least 2-3 more months to really come up with good counter necron options that don't really cripple me vs other kinds of armies.

Have you tried taking Necron allies to counter Necrons.

Just a thought

tuiman wrote:Have you tried taking Necron allies to counter Necrons.

Just a thought

Sad to say but yes, I'm actively working on it. I despise necrons but so far it's pretty op what they got going on. Not too much synergy with GK currently though. Check my allies section on the first page.

The main things I see Gk contributing to necrons could be deep strike protection and some psychic powers which don't really synch with them though as our divinations can't work on necrons as allies. Our AC dreadnaughts are still pretty good though and personally I'm thinking dreadknights might be be the way to go when it comes to necron shooting base along with some assault flamers. Necrons are awesome at anti-armor. Scarabs and spider can tarpit like crazy just that they really lack any ways to neutralize cover saves which flamers tend to help with. GK has average number of those flamers so I see that helping. Something like vulcan + flamers is another good synergy

l0k1 wrote:Didn't Necrons glance vehicles to death in 3rd or 4th edition too? Almost positive they did this in a previous edition.

Not really, but now they can do this with certainty.

So, not having battle brothers, which one do you feel to take as allies?

I think we have a very strong CC, with the termis being very powerfull (more if you've the warlord with a good perk in the unit), and we have some "shooty" now with the stormravens and psydreads being as always.

Should we just not take alies and instead an aegis defense line, or shooty allies like Tau?

DakotaBlue wrote:So, not having battle brothers, which one do you feel to take as allies?

I think we have a very strong CC, with the termis being very powerfull (more if you've the warlord with a good perk in the unit), and we have some "shooty" now with the stormravens and psydreads being as always.

Should we just not take alies and instead an aegis defense line, or shooty allies like Tau?

My personal favorites so far have been IG allies but I think necrons would work well too. IG for low AP weapons and blast templates for long range fire. Necrons for volume of fire and some damn good assault options not to mention fliers. I need to get myself some tau units or even their codex to try it but I can see them work well too sorta like IG with long range support and low AP guns.

Henchmen for GK can also supply some nice low AP options as well and you can cast psychic powers like divination buffs which can help alot with Bs3 shooting. (bs 4 = 66% accuracy, twin linked BS3 = 75% accuracy) But you are limited by the number of units that get the buff. I can have multiple vet squads and a company command squad with BS4 vs 1 squad of monkies with BS 3.

Shooting at planes = 16.67% of hit, twin linked = 30.56% hit

sudojoe wrote:

DakotaBlue wrote:So, not having battle brothers, which one do you feel to take as allies?

I think we have a very strong CC, with the termis being very powerfull (more if you've the warlord with a good perk in the unit), and we have some "shooty" now with the stormravens and psydreads being as always.

Should we just not take alies and instead an aegis defense line, or shooty allies like Tau?

My personal favorites so far have been IG allies but I think necrons would work well too. IG for low AP weapons and blast templates for long range fire. Necrons for volume of fire and some damn good assault options not to mention fliers. I need to get myself some tau units or even their codex to try it but I can see them work well too sorta like IG with long range support and low AP guns.

Henchmen for GK can also supply some nice low AP options as well and you can cast psychic powers like divination buffs which can help alot with Bs3 shooting. (bs 4 = 66% accuracy, twin linked BS3 = 75% accuracy) But you are limited by the number of units that get the buff. I can have multiple vet squads and a company command squad with BS4 vs 1 squad of monkies with BS 3.

Shooting at planes = 16.67% of hit, twin linked = 30.56% hit

I tried yesterday with 3 crusaders, 3 servitors with plasma cannons, 6 henchmen with bolters (x2), with coteaz in one and a malleus in the other. 4 plasma servitors killed themselves in turn 1. And crusaders fail to save 3++ to enemy plasma. Lots of fun.

I tried yesterday with 3 crusaders, 3 servitors with plasma cannons, 6 henchmen with bolters (x2), with coteaz in one and a malleus in the other. 4 plasma servitors killed themselves in turn 1. And crusaders fail to save 3++ to enemy plasma. Lots of fun.

even with rerolls you got that many 1's? lololol That's definately a sign you need better dice!

In some ways, I almost perfer bodies to crusaders now just due to cover. It's a 3++ to save against anything including flamers which can be good depending where you end up putting your guys, close to the enemy or far away. but they are 15 points, I can get like 3, unupgraded acolytes for soaking up bullets. Usually not a problem with cover but the enemy can always focus fire them if you can't fit them all into cover.

Actually since you mention it, I'm not sure the divination power lets you reroll the failed scatter since it's not truely a roll to hit is it and we're not following the twin linked rules are we? Good loophole to not use plasma servators.

My personal worst was out of 12 plasma shots from mech vets, I got hot on 6 of them in one turn. Wacky enough was that I saved 3 of them too with a 5+ and still stripped 3 wounds off mepheston. He took out a tank the next turn but the plasma vets finished him off right after.

When running DCA (and to a lesser extent Crusaders), whats the optimal loadout? Axes on DCA appears to be a must, but what about their other weapon? I was thinking of mauls to give them some more S but would the AP3 of swords serve them better?

I think Swords would be best as the second weapon for the reasons mentioned.

I've had some success lately with my henchmen fire support squad. Cortez with 3 PC sevitors, 3 PG acolytes, one jokero and some bolter bullet catchers. Landed the +12" range my last few games off of the jokero, 36" PG's and 48" PC's are really nice. Also landed the ignores cover divination power off of cortez, which was real fun with all that ap 2.

sudojoe wrote:

DakotaBlue wrote:So, not having battle brothers, which one do you feel to take as allies?

I think we have a very strong CC, with the termis being very powerfull (more if you've the warlord with a good perk in the unit), and we have some "shooty" now with the stormravens and psydreads being as always.

Should we just not take alies and instead an aegis defense line, or shooty allies like Tau?

My personal favorites so far have been IG allies but I think necrons would work well too. IG for low AP weapons and blast templates for long range fire. Necrons for volume of fire and some damn good assault options not to mention fliers. I need to get myself some tau units or even their codex to try it but I can see them work well too sorta like IG with long range support and low AP guns.

Shooting at planes = 16.67% of hit, twin linked = 30.56% hit

My other army is Tau and its not yet finished because I keep getting mad at their 4th ed codex. Yes the railguns are awesome, but Tau can't cope with flying things any better than GK's can (they don't have a flier even). In fact I'd probably root for IG as Tau actually don't have a flyer. But if you take a command squad stick them in an aegis line, with a platoon to soak up objective points, and then either several AA tanks (sorry don't have the codex in front of me to remember their name) or a squad of 2 lemon russ battle tanks i think your GK army would be sitting pretty. P.S. Missile launcher spam on the platoon.

Gatekeeper wrote:

sudojoe wrote:

DakotaBlue wrote:So, not having battle brothers, which one do you feel to take as allies?

I think we have a very strong CC, with the termis being very powerfull (more if you've the warlord with a good perk in the unit), and we have some "shooty" now with the stormravens and psydreads being as always.

Should we just not take alies and instead an aegis defense line, or shooty allies like Tau?

My personal favorites so far have been IG allies but I think necrons would work well too. IG for low AP weapons and blast templates for long range fire. Necrons for volume of fire and some damn good assault options not to mention fliers. I need to get myself some tau units or even their codex to try it but I can see them work well too sorta like IG with long range support and low AP guns.

Shooting at planes = 16.67% of hit, twin linked = 30.56% hit

My other army is Tau and its not yet finished because I keep getting mad at their 4th ed codex. Yes the railguns are awesome, but Tau can't cope with flying things any better than GK's can (they don't have a flier even). In fact I'd probably root for IG as Tau actually don't have a flyer. But if you take a command squad stick them in an aegis line, with a platoon to soak up objective points, and then either several AA tanks (sorry don't have the codex in front of me to remember their name) or a squad of 2 lemon russ battle tanks i think your GK army would be sitting pretty. P.S. Missile launcher spam on the platoon.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking, but maybe a pair of basilisks for long range artillery (incase long deployment) a platoon will be a great addition the gk imho

Here's a thought as I'm leaving my house to go to my FLGS:

With the advent of our beloved Psyflemen dreads being glanced to death so easily now, how do you guys feel about removing them from lists entirely? I'm thinking of replacing them with several henchmen squads (looking at a psyker template squad and an acolyte squad with servitors and jokaero) to increase infantry target saturation and put out more volume of firepower (since that's looking to be the meta this ed), and all hiding in 3++ bolstered cover.

Edit: Or even bringing in an allied detachment of IG to do the same thing instead?

Enigwolf wrote:Here's a thought as I'm leaving my house to go to my FLGS:

With the advent of our beloved Psyflemen dreads being glanced to death so easily now, how do you guys feel about removing them from lists entirely? I'm thinking of replacing them with several henchmen squads (looking at a psyker template squad and an acolyte squad with servitors and jokaero) to increase infantry target saturation and put out more volume of firepower (since that's looking to be the meta this ed), and all hiding in 3++ bolstered cover.

Edit: Or even bringing in an allied detachment of IG to do the same thing instead?

An IG detachment CAN get us similar, with either higher numbers or the same anount of accolytes with a better BS, as well as opening up the support vehicle options. However, while its just more MEQs, remember that by taking what we can already kind of get with the squishies, the SM have things we lack too. Namely scouts, the vindicators template, and dedicated assault troops (regardles of the points cost, i see VV gettting more use on the tabletop)

Enigwolf wrote:Here's a thought as I'm leaving my house to go to my FLGS:

With the advent of our beloved Psyflemen dreads being glanced to death so easily now, how do you guys feel about removing them from lists entirely? I'm thinking of replacing them with several henchmen squads (looking at a psyker template squad and an acolyte squad with servitors and jokaero) to increase infantry target saturation and put out more volume of firepower (since that's looking to be the meta this ed), and all hiding in 3++ bolstered cover.

Edit: Or even bringing in an allied detachment of IG to do the same thing instead?

I still end up using 1 or 2 honestly. 6th has not killed off the transport so you still will have a lot of targets for them. Also the reinforced aegis has worked for me a few times. They do die easy which is a total shame since it's almost too easy to silence our long range shooting now as opposed to say necrons AV13 heavy vehicles or fliers.

You really can't get enough of those as a pure GK build. Storm raven is just too expensive, it's more for a death star build now a days. Long range shooting is more important than ever and with how few models we have, we still get torrented off if we're not careful.

So far I feel after many test games now, I'm almost forced to use the GK as the back-up rather than the main body. This plays into their fluff for sure but it's really not the same as it was in 5th.

I can always take 2 AC dreads, but then I can't get a L.Russ and a hydra together. I can take more purifiers but they die just as easily as a cheaper shootier squad with way more wounds of say necron immortals or IG platoon which actually ends up being just silly how many guys you can cram in that thing.

Take 2 doomscythes (arguably the most powerful vehicle now in the game ESPECIALLY for the cost??) or just take one and 2 GK heavy support choices?

Mostly this comes down to how fragile MEQ is now. There's a ton of stuff that can shoot or charge MEQ off the board and challenges negating alot of effects of squads of guys with power weapons, you're really hurting with so few bodies now more than ever with the nerfs to cover saves. We'll never get enough bodies on the ground to go horde marines and our staple vehicles are getting pretty trashed now or have to sacrifice alot of fire power or even all firepower to get some decent cover saves. I'm learning fast that this is the edition of the acolytes or just using GK as an attachment.

Hoping that maybe DK spam may be useful somehow. I'm now tooling up a bunch of incinerators and seeing how that works out for me. Wall of fire!! I'll have the main body of shooting by the allies and use my GK as some sort of flaming army. (though vulcan probably does this way better than GK)

What about a Crusader Land Raider?

2 hurricane bolters, 1 assault cannon, 1 storm bolter w/ psy ammo + 1 melta.

Due to snapshots, it's a load of shooting, even placing him next to a hidden point taken by some inquisitorial henchmen, protecting one of their sides, behind a building, not moving and being a good, but expensive, defense turret.

Using it in assault with some terminators might be good in 2 of the deployment choices, but in the anvil one might be very "slow" and unprotected.

The 14 armor in all sides is still good, at least where I play, where everybody is using plasma weapons right now.

Edit: And the 10 points missile might be pretty good now, at least with an inquisitor in his side with adivination, it will certainly hit an enemy vehicle. 10 points for an "at least" enemy hull point, might be affordable.

DakotaBlue wrote:What about a Crusader Land Raider?

2 hurricane bolters, 1 assault cannon, 1 storm bolter w/ psy ammo + 1 melta.

Due to snapshots, it's a load of shooting, even placing him next to a hidden point taken by some inquisitorial henchmen, protecting one of their sides, behind a building, not moving and being a good, but expensive, defense turret.

Using it in assault with some terminators might be good in 2 of the deployment choices, but in the anvil one might be very "slow" and unprotected.

The 14 armor in all sides is still good, at least where I play, where everybody is using plasma weapons right now.

Edit: And the 10 points missile might be pretty good now, at least with an inquisitor in his side with adivination, it will certainly hit an enemy vehicle. 10 points for an "at least" enemy hull point, might be affordable.

Personally I'm not quite there in terms of my testing yet for the various units. I haven't quite got enough terminators to make this worth while yet. Also it's so much of a death star, I fear their small numbers will just get shot off the board though at this point, I'm willing to give anything a try. (I see myself trying it with with some dreadknights to get close enough to force a decision point. Shoot the DK or shoot the terminators or shoot the LR? Hopefully giving something to get through.

At least the LR will be immune to Tesla spam but still die to Death rays and gauss from a 10 man warrior block, or scarabs... bah so annoying. Worth a shot though.

So here's something I tested today against my friend's Tau army, which did excellent when I fielded Land Raider, Razorback, and 2 Psyflemen Dreads.

a) Shooty Stormraven (which is now worth the points since Stormravens are so much more survivable than in 5th ed) - TL HB, TLAC, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo. That's a LOT of Str 5, 6, 7 shots going at your foes (3+4+24+4 missiles).

In 2 turns, this killed: 1 Pathfinder squad, 1 Sniper Drone squad, 0.75 Fire Warrior Squad.


b) Henchmen Squads with 2 Jokaero, 2 Plasmacannon Servitors, 6 Acolytes with Bolters, with Servoskull assistance

In 2 turns, they killed: 2 Devilfish, 1 Pathfinder Squad, 2 Fire Warrior Squads, 1 Sniper Drone squad


In terms of effectiveness, I stuck the henchmen 4++ cover bolstered to 3++ by my Techmarine, and combined with the 5-point wound-soaking acolytes, lasted a very long time. However, this was short-lived as they died the moment my foe's Crisis squads reached them and flamed them to death. Oh well.

I wouldn't say our Psyflemen get killed as easily now. If someone really wants them dead, theey can kill them easily enough, they are only AV12.

The good news is that we only have to use Fortitude on penetrating hits. A glance doesn't do anything to reduce our capacity to shoot.

Enigwolf wrote:So here's something I tested today against my friend's Tau army, which did excellent when I fielded Land Raider, Razorback, and 2 Psyflemen Dreads.

a) Shooty Stormraven (which is now worth the points since Stormravens are so much more survivable than in 5th ed) - TL HB, TLAC, Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo. That's a LOT of Str 5, 6, 7 shots going at your foes (3+4+24+4 missiles).

In 2 turns, this killed: 1 Pathfinder squad, 1 Sniper Drone squad, 0.75 Fire Warrior Squad.


b) Henchmen Squads with 2 Jokaero, 2 Plasmacannon Servitors, 6 Acolytes with Bolters, with Servoskull assistance

In 2 turns, they killed: 2 Devilfish, 1 Pathfinder Squad, 2 Fire Warrior Squads, 1 Sniper Drone squad


In terms of effectiveness, I stuck the henchmen 4++ cover bolstered to 3++ by my Techmarine, and combined with the 5-point wound-soaking acolytes, lasted a very long time. However, this was short-lived as they died the moment my foe's Crisis squads reached them and flamed them to death. Oh well.

actually I've had similar success with my blobs too. They are great in techmarine cover and I've found flamers to just be obscenely useful this edition with night fighting stealth/shrouding problems and more infantry on foot. Stuff like hellhounds and heavy incinerators for DK lets you get 12' out with their templates can burn down alot of these really shooty blocks in terrain. I'm thinking of doing some interceptors in incinerators now instead of psycannons to accomplish similar things. Only problem is that hellhounds compete with vendettas for the fast slot so I'm still unsure of the balance.

Maybe IG main with both of those and a storm raven? but I do like interceptors too so I'm very torn.

Yep, my interceptors are incinerator equipped now as well.

Gunboat dreadknight(heavy psycannon & incin) killed about 40+ gaunts last night spawning endlessly from 2 Tervigons. I think it really depends who you take these guys against; sometimes they do great and sometimes they just get smoked. I wouldn't mind trying a build with 3 of them for target saturation, but I only have 2. Are their fists REALLY str10? that seems crazy.

Paladin squad(5 guys, 2 MCPsycannons) with draigo breached enemy deployment for a VP.

2 Psycannons per paladin squad is always better than 1.

I wouldn't say Psyrifle dreads should be removed, although I did eventually lose both of mine last night; although I should have removed closer threats, I was going for the 'slay the warlord' VP. If I had killed the closer threats, they both may have survived.

All the tau twin-linked weapons can actually hit the Stormraven pretty well; also being velocity locked is SO annoying.

Gonna try tomorrow stormraven with TL HB, TL AC, Bolters and psy ammo with a crusader land raider vs Eldar. I'm thinking in getting a librarian in the raven, droping him with 5 termis, and convocate the land raider in their lines, while protecting one side of the terminators.

The use I'm gonna give to the LR is a big shooting wall. Let's see what happen.

sudojoe wrote:

Enigwolf wrote:Here's a thought as I'm leaving my house to go to my FLGS:
I'm now tooling up a bunch of incinerators and seeing how that works out for me. Wall of fire!! I'll have the main body of shooting by the allies and use my GK as some sort of flaming army. (though vulcan probably does this way better than GK)

Let me know how the incinerator approach works? I was contemplating that the other day.

ugh, so many GK losses lately on battle reports I'm reading and seeing online. Anyone got some good news to share? Feels like we really went from tops now to bottom of the mid or top of the lower tiers armies. Anyways, updated some more on the first page on some lessons learned.

Also, random question that occurred to me, but if you take eldar as an ally, does the runes of warding mess yourself up too? Kind of sucks there.

sudojoe wrote:ugh, so many GK losses lately on battle reports I'm reading and seeing online. Anyone got some good news to share? Feels like we really went from tops now to bottom of the mid or top of the lower tiers armies. Anyways, updated some more on the first page on some lessons learned.

Also, random question that occurred to me, but if you take eldar as an ally, does the runes of warding mess yourself up too? Kind of sucks there.

"Units in your army treat Allies of Convenience as enemy units that cannot be charged, shot, targeted with psychic powers or have templates or blast markers placed over them."

I would say yes, which is a blame. Still, what I've been seeing a lot is taking GK allies with a cheap HQ, or even a brootherhood champion, with a pair of 5x terminators, so, there's no problem with psychic powers there, unless you take an inquisitor, Coteaz, or a librarian.