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Superman is often devastated by moral attacks. Lex Luthor is forever playing devil's advocate with him, making him question his values and thereby debilitating him. Just because you can't shoot him to death doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses.
Manchu wrote:Superman is often devastated by moral attacks. Lex Luthor is forever playing devil's advocate with him, making him question his values and thereby debilitating him. Just because you can't shoot him to death doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses.
OT but why isn't Luthor like, in jail?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Manchu wrote:Superman is often devastated by moral attacks. Lex Luthor is forever playing devil's advocate with him, making him question his values and thereby debilitating him. Just because you can't shoot him to death doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses.
OT but why isn't Luthor like, in jail?
Because he's rich, well connected and smart enough about covering up his goings on that there isn't any way you get charges to stick, and it's not like superman saying "I'm totally telling you, that guy is eviiiiil" is going to hold up in court".
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Frazzled wrote:
Why because I haven't ready every Superman comic since #1? So what. I've seen the movies. This will be a movie. The teaser looks boring. It looks like the same superman thats been done over and over and over.
Because you don't have to have done that. Hell spending 10 minutes on his TVTropes entry ought to be enough to get some information if you're really so set on discussing the topic.
If you don't even want to put that much effort in just google "Superman gets beaten" or something.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/07/24 19:00:24
KingCracker wrote:Garbage Pail Kids. I loved it as a 6 y/o. Its beyond a steaming pile of gak. Trust me, your wrong
Must I really put sarcasm smileys on something so obvious as six year olds are never wrong? In all seriousness though I wouldn't mind if he faced off against Zod. At least it's an opponent in his league. Dudes with anti superman magic crystals is boring.
rubiksnoob wrote:I want a Doctor Strange movie, directed by Tim Burton.
That would suck. And mostly because of Burton. The guy had some cool ideas and all 15ish years or so back, but now its the same goddamn thing. I bet if he directed a Superman movie, the entire audience would die from boredom
So true, it's been too long since Burton made a good film.
KingCracker wrote:Garbage Pail Kids. I loved it as a 6 y/o. Its beyond a steaming pile of gak. Trust me, your wrong
Must I really put sarcasm smileys on something so obvious as six year olds are never wrong? In all seriousness though I wouldn't mind if he faced off against Zod. At least it's an opponent in his league. Dudes with anti superman magic crystals is boring.
rubiksnoob wrote:I want a Doctor Strange movie, directed by Tim Burton.
That would suck. And mostly because of Burton. The guy had some cool ideas and all 15ish years or so back, but now its the same goddamn thing. I bet if he directed a Superman movie, the entire audience would die from boredom
So true, it's been too long since Burton made a good film.
Well maybe you should then, because I thought you were being serious
And are you agreeing with my stance on Burton? OR was that a flub up? I R Confused
Ahtman wrote:I think, like BB, it isn't going to focus on the parts we know about so much as the 'lost years'. The impression I get from the SDCC footage is that the movie will start with him sometime after graduating High School and is bumming around doing odd jobs and the like. He does something extraordinary and he goes back home to see if they know what is going on. This is where Pa Kent (Kevin Costner) tells him that he is an alien and then he goes about learning about his heritage from the last cell phone message his biological father (Russel Crow) left. Most of the film will be pre-reveal of alien heritage, and the time after where he tries to understand it. I don't think a lot of time will be spent on Krypton. Then he fights Zod. Of course I could be wrong and it may be an hour of retread.
That's still an origin story though.
To be honest I think that's a big reason that The Dark Knight is loved - it's a superhero story that isn't about 'how this superhero came to be'. It showed Batman him dealing with a threat, in which he started as Batman and ended as Batman. Lots of stuff changed but we weren't going through the same old 'character learns about abilities, character explores motivations, character develops a moral code' and so on.
Actually the same can be said for Spiderman II.
Now admittedly, both of those movies are sequels to origin stories, which had already done the ground work. But the point is that all these characters are known, not just to comic book readers but to everyone, if not by the cartoons we saw years ago, or by general cultural osmosis, then by the movie franchises we've already seen, that they're now rebooting.
I'd just like for one of these movies to say 'here's Superman, or whoever, you all know his deal, watch him battle evil and overcome personal moral challenges'.
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Frazzled wrote:Still not impressed. To many people know about that, and its movie canon now. Besides. He can literally punch out everyone on the planet.
Movie canon? The what now? Reboot dude. Reboot. You know what this means. It means that some power that he was given in some other property doesn't have to be given to him in this one.
Accept this. Move on.
You know, I was reading the other day about how you can tell if someone is bothered by a problem, or if they actually quite like being in a world with that 'problem'. The trick is that when they are provided with information that shows their 'problem' doesn't actually exist, do they act relieved, and happily move on from the problem. Or do they reject that evidence and double down on the problem.
I think it's pretty clear fraz likes being in a world where Superman sucks because he canonically has time travel and therefore can't be in good stories. I don't know why he likes that place, but it's clear he likes it so much that it doesn't matter to him that it isn't a real problem. Whatever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 05:50:34
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I have some conceptual problems with Superman as a whole. I think he's too powerful to be truly compelling; but these concerns were raised and responded to already extensively. I'm just throwing my vote on that.
Beyond that, I'm sort of against a Superman reboot for the same reason I wasn't too keen on the idea of yet another Spiderman movie. There are so very many untapped properties; why keep going to the same well? When are we going to get our 4th-wall-breaking Deadpool movie? Or Deathlok? Ant Man? Wonder Woman? Sandman? I'd love to see a Season of Mists movie.
I think the best Superman movie ever was The Iron Giant.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
rubiksnoob wrote:I just want them to stop making superman movies.
We disagree about almost everything, but in this instance, we're on the same page.
Seriously, enough with the instant retreads, and superman movies just suck, like all of them. You can't really make an omnipotent being anything but boring.
Well, there's the age old question: Will he defeat the bad guys by punching, or lifting?
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
KingCracker wrote:So true, it's been too long since Burton made a good film.
And are you agreeing with my stance on Burton? OR was that a flub up? I R Confused
With regards to Burton and Superman i think we had a lucky escape.
With that in mind I'm more than happy with the little hints we've seen so far.
Good casting at the very least.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Aye I noted in the comic thread, I saw them last week. Tbh I'm not normally a fan of superman, but I love they way these teasers are put together.
If Zod is done well, we might have a Superman film worth watching.
Although I still think it strange, that Superman, much like Batman was in previous years, is sorta trapped by the memory of the camp film versions of decades past.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 09:37:48
"That's not an Ork, its a girl.." - Last words of High General Daran Ul'tharem, battle of Ursha VII.
Two White Horses (Ipswich Town and Denver Broncos Supporter)
sebster wrote: I think it's pretty clear fraz likes being in a world where Superman sucks because he canonically has time travel and therefore can't be in good stories. I don't know why he likes that place, but it's clear he likes it so much that it doesn't matter to him that it isn't a real problem. Whatever.
Besides enjoying throwing personal attacks under the guise of commentary, I think you grossly overestimate the caring I have about the subject in any way. You may have some sort of personal involvement. I'm just commenting on a movie trailer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 11:08:10
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
sebster wrote:
I think it's pretty clear fraz likes being in a world where Superman sucks because he canonically has time travel and therefore can't be in good stories. I don't know why he likes that place, but it's clear he likes it so much that it doesn't matter to him that it isn't a real problem. Whatever.
Besides enjoying throwing personal attacks under the guise of commentary, I think you grossly overestimate the caring I have about the subject in any way. You may have some sort of personal involvement. I'm just commenting on a movie trailer.
Except you aren't, you're commenting on superman from a film of years passed.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
KingCracker wrote:Garbage Pail Kids. I loved it as a 6 y/o. Its beyond a steaming pile of gak. Trust me, your wrong
Must I really put sarcasm smileys on something so obvious as six year olds are never wrong? In all seriousness though I wouldn't mind if he faced off against Zod. At least it's an opponent in his league. Dudes with anti superman magic crystals is boring.
rubiksnoob wrote:I want a Doctor Strange movie, directed by Tim Burton.
That would suck. And mostly because of Burton. The guy had some cool ideas and all 15ish years or so back, but now its the same goddamn thing. I bet if he directed a Superman movie, the entire audience would die from boredom
So true, it's been too long since Burton made a good film.
Funny you say that. Tim Burton WAS going to make a Superman movie in the mid-'90s, starring...Nicholas Cage. My old stomping grounds of Pittsburgh was going to be Metropolis. For those who know the city, the PPG building was going to be LexCorp headquarters. Apparently $10 or 20 million in pre-production work was done for the film, but the studio pulled the plug.
Which was probably a good thing given the rumors about it. Burton and his writers took that infamous Kevin Smith script and then made much, much lamer by all accounts. Imagine the awesomeness that would have resulted when Lex Luthor and Brainiac merged to form LEXIAC! There was a pic that went around a few years back that supposedly showed Cage in his Superman costume...true or not, it looks ridiculous. Google it and you'll see.
Ironically, 15 years later Pittsburgh ended up being Gotham City for The Dark Knight Rises (or at least part of it).
Personally, I think the Superman films have been more or less cursed ever since Donner had his dispute and walked out on Superman II. Here's hoping this one can get it right.
Edit: Darn it. Didn't see reds8n's post when I replied.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 13:11:32
Frazzled wrote:An entire library of films at this point.
Which you're broadly applying as the starting point for potential audiences going into these films, saying it's been those or having "Read every super man comic since #1". Clearly this isn't true for everyone, it certainly isn't true for me. I've read maybe 3 comics books total in my life, and I've seen none of the superman movies.
Additionally you've been making claims about how the movie will inevitably bad (presumably due to lack of tension) because super man can beat everything forever with ease. Which I just don't think is generally the case. Maybe it was true in the old movies, maybe it wasn't I dunno never seen 'em. My exposure to the superman character has been from totally different sources.
I just seems rather silly that you assume:
A) Everyone (or even most people who would go to this movie) are coming from the same exposure to the character you are.
B) That this movie will treat the character in the same way as those movies.
You're right. It could be totally different. I doubt it highly though, judging from the teaser.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I liked the teaser. It lacked most of Zach Snyder's usual movie ticks, and that made me hopeful that perhaps he has moved on from being a Hack director.
Then, I realized he was just copying Lar Von Whatshisname and the Tree of Life style shots becuase such shots are popular now, and my fear returned.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 14:58:46
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Easy E wrote:Then, I realized he was just copying Lar Von Whatshisname and the Tree of Life style shots becuase such shots are popular now, and my fear returned.
I'm guessing you are thinking of Lars Von Trier (Dancer in the Dark, Melancholia, Antichrist) , but it was Terrence Malick (Thin Red Line, Days of Heaven, The New World) that directed/edited/wrote Tree of Life.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Manchu wrote:Hey, Antichrist was fun for the whole family.
The first shower scene was kinda fun, but lacked the Brazzers-esque quality I normally look for in those types of movies.
The rest of the film was a steaming turd. At least, I think it was. I turned it off about 20 minutes later and started playing Arkham City.
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
Frazzled wrote:Besides enjoying throwing personal attacks under the guise of commentary, I think you grossly overestimate the caring I have about the subject in any way. You may have some sort of personal involvement. I'm just commenting on a movie trailer.
There was no guise of commentary, but there also wasn't a personal attack. I was directly criticising you for the way you've behaved in this thread, and trying to figure out why. You mentioned a problem, and when it was explained to you that the problem isn't actually a problem at all, you kept pretending it was. There has to be a reason for someone to decide to continue to pretend something is a problem, when it's been shown to them that it isn't.
And no, I really don't have anything at stake with Superman. I liked the original two movies, but they're hardly favourites of mine. The last Superman movie was incredibly dull, and made me wonder if a good Superman story is worth telling.
My only horse in this race is with you, and only because you made a dodgy argument, and then stuck to it even when it was obvious you were just plain wrong.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Frazzled wrote:Its meritorious as there's no effort involved.
And again we return to you showing that you have no idea what you are talking about. It has nothing to do with being a comic book guy or not, as I am, at best, passively a comic book person, but with having a bit of knowledge on the subject, or at the very least, recognizing where one doesn't know something and will listen to people who do. When people keep trying to explain that he isn't a god that wins by merely a thought, and you recognize you don't know the subject but they do, you might want to, oh I don't know, learn something.
Can't be shot. Can't be killed by a laser. Can't be bombed. Would have wiped the floor with the avengers, the X men, Loki and his alien buddies, combined. Thats pretty epically invulnerable. The only one close is Ang Lee's Hulk.
If we're talking movie Superman vs. Zeus I'd go with Superman.
*Red Skull. Superman extermines Hydra.
*Loki. Just chunks him into space.
*Luthor. Punches through his skull (now that would be epic, lets start the movie with that).
*Zod. isn't he like old? What you can't beat an old guy from your own planet? What are you Super Nerd?
Superman is far from unbeatable. Apart from kryptonite and being beaten up by superbeings, he is vulnerable to magic and psionics, so I dont think he would get far against all the xmen. Professor X would give him a psychic lobotomy, Rogue would just drain his powers dry until he is dead. As mentioned before there are a lot of cool villains that counter supermans strengths and invulnerability; Doomsday, Metallo etc. People constantly saying it will be boring because he cant be killed either don't know the background well. His greatest downfall is not being able to save others despite his powers, a point overlooked a lot.
There was a pic that went around a few years back that supposedly showed Cage in his Superman costume...true or not, it looks ridiculous. Google it and you'll see.
