The Man of Steel.

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**sebster**

Fraz, you seem fixated on the 'going back in time' thing. Well that's a power Superman was suddenly given in order to give a crappy ending to anotherwise pretty good movie, and other than that hasn't been a consistent power of his.

So in another movie franchise they can just not give Superman that power, and then your big problem goes away. Luck you. You can stop posting about Superman now.

In other news, Superman is a hard one to write, but by no means impossible. More than anything, though, I'm just really bored with the idea of what is bound to be yet another origin movie. We all know the Superman origin, we don't need the first 30 minutes of the movie chewed up telling it all over again.

**Ahtman**

sebster wrote:In other news, Superman is a hard one to write, but by no means impossible. More than anything, though, I'm just really bored with the idea of what is bound to be yet another origin movie. We all know the Superman origin, we don't need the first 30 minutes of the movie chewed up telling it all over again.

I think, like BB, it isn't going to focus on the parts we know about so much as the 'lost years'. The impression I get from the SDCC footage is that the movie will start with him sometime after graduating High School and is bumming around doing odd jobs and the like. He does something extraordinary and he goes back home to see if they know what is going on. This is where Pa Kent (Kevin Costner) tells him that he is an alien and then he goes about learning about his heritage from the last cell phone message his biological father (Russel Crow) left. Most of the film will be pre-reveal of alien heritage, and the time after where he tries to understand it. I don't think a lot of time will be spent on Krypton. Then he fights Zod. Of course I could be wrong and it may be an hour of retread.

**Chongara**

I don't know much about Super Man having not see anything with him outside the DCAU. However I enjoyed that enough that I don't think it's fair to dismiss the character out of hand. The trailer looks neat, I'd probably go see the movie if the my comic book nerd friends are gonna go.

**Amaya**

I don't know why people automatically assume that it is impossible to make a good Superman movie. It may not be possible to make one that will please everyone, let alone the masses, but he opens all sorts of interesting moral quandaries that "weaker" heroes/heroines don't deal with. If he is written as being all powerful or close to it, there is a major issue of him setting an example for others to follow while avoiding corruption and baser instincts. If it's written as him simply always taking the moral high road it will be boring, but if he flirts with rage, vengeance, megalomania, etc and then resists the temptations then the story should be interesting.

Think about it honestly, if you woke up suddenly with Superman's powers wouldn't the temptation to morally questionable things for a good cause (or even just outright wrong things) be there?

**Frazzled**

sebster wrote:Fraz, you seem fixated on the 'going back in time' thing. Well that's a power Superman was suddenly given in order to give a crappy ending to anotherwise pretty good movie, and other than that hasn't been a consistent power of his.

So in another movie franchise they can just not give Superman that power, and then your big problem goes away. Luck you. You can stop posting about Superman now.

In other news, Superman is a hard one to write, but by no means impossible. More than anything, though, I'm just really bored with the idea of what is bound to be yet another origin movie. We all know the Superman origin, we don't need the first 30 minutes of the movie chewed up telling it all over again.

Still not impressed. To many people know about that, and its movie canon now. Besides. He can literally punch out everyone on the planet.

I await Krypton and Lex Luthor for the #356 time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Amaya wrote:I don't know why people automatically assume that it is impossible to make a good Superman movie. It may not be possible to make one that will please everyone, let alone the masses, but he opens all sorts of interesting moral quandaries that "weaker" heroes/heroines don't deal with. If he is written as being all powerful or close to it, there is a major issue of him setting an example for others to follow while avoiding corruption and baser instincts. If it's written as him simply always taking the moral high road it will be boring, but if he flirts with rage, vengeance, megalomania, etc and then resists the temptations then the story should be interesting.

Think about it honestly, if you woke up suddenly with Superman's powers wouldn't the temptation to morally questionable things for a good cause (or even just outright wrong things) be there?

Probably because the first two are arguably the only decent ones, and thats just because they were some of the first of decent comic films. Once you have RIchard Pryor in a Superman movie, its strictly no bueno.

Now we could fix that by having him fight the zombie plague, a true War of Worlds Alien race, the sleestak or something completely utterly different. But Zod's been done before. The whole "oh wow I discover my powers" schtick has been done before (in movie and TV show).

**KingCracker**

Ahtman wrote:
KingCracker wrote:the dude is practically a God

Except he isn't. As someone pointed out above his power levels fluctuate from time to time, with some writing him as as god, and others writing him as powerful to be sure, but not obscenely so. In the current Action Comics of New 52 he hasn't even flown yet (up to where I have read anyway) and makes large jumps as he did originally. While generally immune to small arms fire, he can still be harmed by other forces, such as when he stopped a bullet train and got stuck between it and a building and was knocked unconscious. He is shown having bruises from missiles and such as well. Against normal bank robbers there is no question and is a bit of a joke, but there are things besides kryptonite that can harm him.

Oh, and the villain is Zod. Since this is going to be a 'Batman Begins' for Superman, I think they are going to show why he choose* to be a hero, I imagine they went with Zod to show what a person with Superman's powers, that is intent on naughtiness, can do and why it is important for someone to stand up to them, or for him to not be like them. Or some crap like that.

*I think someone pointed out earlier that Superman, unlike Batman or Spiderman, both whom were affected by traumatic events, makes a conscious choice to be a hero and, more importantly, a symbol for good. He also wasn't infused with power by an accident like the Flash. Green Lantern didn't so much choose to be Green Lantern so much as the ring chose him. Wonder Woman was created to be a hero** from clay.

**I know they recently retconned it.

Except he isnt......save for the parts you said where he is immune to small arms fire, can jump over buildings like I hop over the cat, "gets bruises from missiles" and was merely knocked out when a bullet train smashed him into a building............................Ill let you think on this for a moment..................................go ahead keep pondering what youve just argued against..........................getting it yet? Ya, thats very much God like.

**Huffy**

Amaya wrote:I don't know why people automatically assume that it is impossible to make a good Superman movie. It may not be possible to make one that will please everyone, let alone the masses, but he opens all sorts of interesting moral quandaries that "weaker" heroes/heroines don't deal with. If he is written as being all powerful or close to it, there is a major issue of him setting an example for others to follow while avoiding corruption and baser instincts. If it's written as him simply always taking the moral high road it will be boring, but if he flirts with rage, vengeance, megalomania, etc and then resists the temptations then the story should be interesting.

Think about it honestly, if you woke up suddenly with Superman's powers wouldn't the temptation to morally questionable things for a good cause (or even just outright wrong things) be there?

Right on, and with nolan having his fingers in this film I'm hoping this is what we get.

**Frazzled**

You're an alien. Whats morally questionable to an alien?

What morals? US Morals? Roman morals?

Now make it interesting. Make Superman a "survival of the fittest" guy and its finally different.

Better. Make Superman a bad guy. Who can save you now?

**Graphite**

Batman

**Easy E**

George Spiggott wrote:
Ahtman wrote:Except for Braniac, Doomsday, Darksied, Bizarro, Lobo, Metallo, Parasite, ect ect.
Will they be in it or will it just be the Kryptonite thing again?

Worse. General Zod and friends.

All will kneel before Zod!

http://www.zod2008.com/

I hear he is going to relaunch his bid for the White House soon!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:Now make it interesting. Make Superman a "survival of the fittest" guy and its finally different.

Better. Make Superman a bad guy. Who can save you now?

That's why Supes vs. General Zod is interesting. They have the same powers, so what seperates them is the fact that Supes has chosen the path of light, while Zod has not.

**Frazzled**

Superman will win. FIrst there will be a fight and Zod wins but Superman survives. he will have a crisis of faith but overcome it and then kick Zod's keister.

Its like its been done before.

**AduroT**

Frazzled wrote:
Better. Make Superman a bad guy. Who can save you now?

Batman. Not just counting that he's known to keep Kryptonite around, but didn't he once beat up Superman without Kryptonite using a suit of power armor that tapped into the entire power grid of Gotham or something?

**Ahtman**

AduroT wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Better. Make Superman a bad guy. Who can save you now?

Batman. Not just counting that he's known to keep Kryptonite around, but didn't he once beat up Superman without Kryptonite using a suit of power armor that tapped into the entire power grid of Gotham or something?

He had Green Arrow shoot an arrow at Superman filled with synthetic kryptonite dust right before, or maybe slightly after, the fight started.

**murdog**

Trailer made me want to see it - I'd like to see the Clark Kent character fleshed out a little and it seems like thats what they are going for.

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:Superman will win. FIrst there will be a fight and Zod wins but Superman survives. he will have a crisis of faith but overcome it and then kick Zod's keister.

Its like its been done before.

Because the villains win so often movies? If the best you've got at this point is complaining that the antagonist in a film overcomes adversity it would seem you've run out of criticism of any merit, not there was much to begin with.

**George Spiggott**

Easy E wrote:
George Spiggott wrote:
Ahtman wrote:Except for Braniac, Doomsday, Darksied, Bizarro, Lobo, Metallo, Parasite, ect ect.
Will they be in it or will it just be the Kryptonite thing again?

Worse. General Zod and friends.

That's not worse that's better. Superman II was one of the first films ever saw at the cinema. It was, and still is, a great film. Six year olds are never wrong about the quality of films.

Ahtman wrote:He had Green Arrow shoot an arrow at Superman filled with synthetic kryptonite dust right before, or maybe slightly after, the fight started.

I thought is was a kryptonite ring, or is that a comic book in joke that I didn't get?

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Superman will win. FIrst there will be a fight and Zod wins but Superman survives. he will have a crisis of faith but overcome it and then kick Zod's keister.

Its like its been done before.

Because the villains win so often movies? If the best you've got at this point is complaining that the antagonist in a film overcomes adversity it would seem you've run out of criticism of any merit, not there was much to begin with.

Its meritorious as there's no effort involved. Its a foregone conclusion. Batman could theoretically lose. Magneto did win. Unless you create something different this guy can't lose.

As a non comic book guy it looks boring. But I've said my piece and will leave you to discussing it further.

Luthor was framed!
-Lex on himself.

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:Its meritorious as there's no effort involved.

And again we return to you showing that you have no idea what you are talking about. It has nothing to do with being a comic book guy or not, as I am, at best, passively a comic book person, but with having a bit of knowledge on the subject, or at the very least, recognizing where one doesn't know something and will listen to people who do. When people keep trying to explain that he isn't a god that wins by merely a thought, and you recognize you don't know the subject but they do, you might want to, oh I don't know, learn something.

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
Frazzled wrote:Its meritorious as there's no effort involved.

And again we return to you showing that you have no idea what you are talking about. It has nothing to do with being a comic book guy or not, as I am, at best, passively a comic book person, but with having a bit of knowledge on the subject, or at the very least, recognizing where one doesn't know something and will listen to people who do. When people keep trying to explain that he isn't a god that wins by merely a thought, and you recognize you don't know the subject but they do, you might want to, oh I don't know, learn something.

Can't be shot. Can't be killed by a laser. Can't be bombed. Would have wiped the floor with the avengers, the X men, Loki and his alien buddies, combined. Thats pretty epically invulnerable. The only one close is Ang Lee's Hulk.

If we're talking movie Superman vs. Zeus I'd go with Superman.

*Red Skull. Superman extermines Hydra.
*Loki. Just chunks him into space.
*Luthor. Punches through his skull (now that would be epic, lets start the movie with that).
*Zod. isn't he like old? What you can't beat an old guy from your own planet? What are you Super Nerd?

**gorgon**

Frazz, did you just intentionally ignore what Ahtman said, or are you off your meds?

**Amaya**

He's more off the mark in this thread than usual.

**Frazzled**

gorgon wrote:Frazz, did you just intentionally ignore what Ahtman said, or are you off your meds?

One can do both.

I was leaving until the insults. I'm just not seeing how this is anything but boring. THE TEASER WAS

ing BORING. It looks the same as all the other ones, just slightly better effects.

The problem is the movies have made him invulnerable whether or not 5,000 comics fluctuate over time. The movies have made him a massive eat Darth Vader for breakfast badass. If you downpower him now people will be ticked off. if you go with same "gets older gets stronger" storyline its been done to death. The teaser looks like, instead of being a reporter he wanders around a little bit. Ok. Kind of like a young Batman, Wolverine, Magneto...

have Zod find him as a kid and beat his ass and hurl onto another planet where he has to fight Cthulu and Nazi Hitler. Make it a comedy.

**Alpharius**

I think this movie will be the best Superman movie ever made.

Why?

I have no idea - but it will clearly be better than Super Man 3 or 4, and "Returns".

And while Superman and Superman 2 were fun, they were products of their age and they haven't aged too well.

Plus, they had some goofy story elements that are just, well, goofy.

So - given the people involved and the time made - I predict that it will be the best Superman movie ever made.

Whatever that ultimately means.

I am optimistic though!

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:Can't be shot.

Can be and has been.

Frazzled wrote:Can't be killed by a laser.

Real life lasers or Star Wars lasers? Been shot by the latter.

Frazzled wrote:Can't be bombed.

He can get drunk, it just takes more potent liquids. And he has been bombed by weapons as well.

Frazzled wrote:Would have wiped the floor with the avengers, the X men, Loki and his alien buddies, combined.

Marvel and DC work on very different power scales, thus apples and oranges. Thanos in the Marvel Universe would be a foil for Superman.

Frazzled wrote:Thats pretty epically invulnerable.

No more invulnerable than any other comic book hero that has been around for decades. You complain he can't be killed, but then, neither can Spiderman, John McClain, Batman, James Bond, Black Dynamite, ect ect.

Frazzled wrote:Luthor. Punches through his skull (now that would be epic, lets start the movie with that).

If he would do such a thing he would save himself a lot of trouble, but he doesn't when he easily could, which is one of the things that makes him the character he is. He isn't loved because he has super powers, but because of how he uses them and how he approaches the world. The fact you think he should win a fight by punching a hole in someone's head just shows how little you know about the character. Recognizing a deficit in information isn't an insult, it is an observation. Your consistent and purposeful unwillingness to learn anything more about a subject when others try to help you is what is insulting.

Frazzled wrote:Zod. isn't he like old? What you can't beat an old guy from your own planet? What are you Super Nerd?

See, you even admit that you don't really know who a character is, but if we tried to tell you about him you would get cranky and ignore it, so I don't see the point.

**Frazzled**

Awesome. Our opinions differ. You may return to your discussion of Stalin the man of steel, er Super man.

**Gitzbitah**

I am really enjoying Frazz owning this thread as hard as Superman would own anything moviegoers would accept as a villain.

A related quote sequence from Community-
Abed: "Are you Superman?"
Troy: "No."
Abed: "Would you tell me if you were?"
Troy: "I'd tell everyone. I never understood why he cared who knew."

**Scott**

Yawn - I'm so tired of Superman, just as I am tired of Spiderman.

Bring me more Avengers-related films, posthaste!

**Frazzled**

I'll take Iron Man, leave the rest. But only if Robert Downey is playing him, else leave him too.

I would see more Magneto goes berserk and wins films.

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:Awesome. Our opinions differ.

But you aren't offering up opinions, just bad information. At no point have I said you have to like Superman, as that would be an opinion. The problem is that your facts are wrong, and you are using incorrect information to inform you. It is like saying 2+2=6, and when someone tries to explain that it is 2+2=4 your response is to say that you just have a differing opinion.

**Lord-Loss**

Frazzled wrote:Can't be shot. Can't be killed by a laser. Can't be bombed. Would have wiped the floor with the avengers, the X men, Loki and his alien buddies, combined.

If you look at either the marvel or DC wiki you'll see how stupidly powerful most superheroes are in the comics.

Marvel Wiki wrote:While Thor has usually been shown to rely solely on his fighting ability, super strength, and well nigh invulnerability, he has so many other options available to him if a fight starts going badly. He has complete mastery over the weather, he can open chasms in the earth, he can even drain the soul out of his opponent’s body.

Marvel Wiki wrote:He has been clocked flying at three times the speed of light

Marvel Wiki wrote:Resurrection: While channeling his power through Mjolnir, Thor was able to resurrect a man he had wrongly killed

Apart from Batman and Captain American practically all of the superheroes can survive 'multiple nuclear blasts' on 2% shield strength, or something stupid like that. They just don't put any of the massively overpowered crap in the films though, thank god...