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It is very simple. You contact the nearest commissar and they "educate" the individual with a bullet to the head.

I only posted the definition because people kept going on that a limit means it should be near to it. If you play over the points you are not within the limit. That is fact and you need to recognize that you have broken a rule just as if I had moved 6.5" instead of 6". We can agree to forgive about the breaking of a rule but if you feel entitled to this breaking of rules it is an indicator of your thought processes and character (if you take that as an insult then that is you own mindset there is not actually an insult there).

Now going over 1-10 points and going over ~100 points is a totally different thing but without a clearly define line where is that limit? As IG I can get a lot out of 5 pts (extra flamer or flamer=>melta) so should a SM player be allowed to go 20 pts over so they can get a plasma cannon? You can easily come under points and you may have to be under points by a significant margin to do so. What gives you the right (entitles you) that you should instead be given extra points so you do not have to sacrifice? What led the person to believe that they are entitled to break the limit? If you can answer those questions well enough so I can understand the mindset behind it after having read the definition of a limit (as many of the answers in this thread directly contradicted the definition) then I will reconsider my position and try a list 1 point over (GASP).

I can definitely see how some might feel it is only fair to stay under the points limit, I mean, when I build my DE lists, let's say I want to squeeze in another reavers squad, but after putting together the rest of the list, I realised I was some points over, so I take that reavers squad out, and shuffle points around until I'm under the limit. What I'm saying is that it's not so simple as "drop a melta bomb" "take an unit out" "drop 1 model", etc, people who build their lists to fit under the limit have made their own sacrifice elsewhere. It's kinda disrespectful to the guy who took out what he wanted to field just so he's under limit, then you turn around and say "I don't want to sacrifice anything in my list, it's only a few over, no biggies, right? High fives?".

Though, personally, friendly games, I'd allow a few points over, my goal in friendly games isn't victory(only) but also just having fun with friends. Games with strangers, stick under the point limit unless agreed to go certain points over.

Ok, Lets say my Tau list is 1502.
Well y'know what is 2 points? Neuroweb jammer, something that makes my entire unit gain "Gets Hot" potentially game breaking.
A limit if for a reason, If you cant do a pre-agreed upon number, then go up, i will too, but do not try to make this one side

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is if I let someone go a little over the limit. I try to not do it, fairly easy to knock off a gaunt somewhere, but I honestly don't care if that Stormraven has ceramite plating or not.

Not like I have any meltaguns anyway.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Your talking gear... it could be the diffence of being able to fit in a game changing unit.. to often this conversation restricts itself to gear. It could be whole squad of something.

Then play without an entire squad. You don't get to break the rules just because it would be harder to win if you don't.

Presumptuous much? I don't remember asking a question or implying I break rules. Take a second and stop looking down your nose and read my post. You are saying to me the point I was making. Some players expect to run an entire extra unit that ends up only being 5 points over. Over the limit by 5 or whatever points is over the limit period. Be it extra points from a squad with no wargear or a single melta bomb.

 Kain wrote:
but I honestly don't care if that Stormraven has ceramite plating or not.

Not like I have any meltaguns anyway.

Cermite plating is not an upgrade, it comes standard with the Storm Raven.

Extra Armor on the other hand is an upgrade.

 Byte wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Your talking gear... it could be the diffence of being able to fit in a game changing unit.. to often this conversation restricts itself to gear. It could be whole squad of something.

Then play without an entire squad. You don't get to break the rules just because it would be harder to win if you don't.

Presumptuous much? I don't remember asking a question or implying I break rules. Take a second and stop looking down your nose and read my post. You are saying to me the point I was making. Some players expect to run an entire extra unit that ends up only being 5 points over. Over the limit by 5 or whatever points is over the limit period. Be it extra points from a squad with no wargear or a single melta bomb.

It's harder to pick fights and split hairs if you're not looking down you're nose though.

I think this all belongs in another thread...

"My opponent's list is 5 points over. 40k first world problems."

Kangodo wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Depends on where you are, and if it's quota day for the police. Driving even 1 mph over the speed limit is still speeding, and you can still get a ticket for it.

And in what unreasonable country would that be?

Fixed speed cameras in Oz have a 2km/hr tolerance, which is only a little over a mile/hr.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kain wrote:
Honestly I don't see what the big deal is if I let someone go a little over the limit. I try to not do it, fairly easy to knock off a gaunt somewhere, but I honestly don't care if that Stormraven has ceramite plating or not.

If you let someone go over the limit, that's not a big deal at all. The point people are making is simply that players shouldn't expect to be able to go over.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Your talking gear... it could be the diffence of being able to fit in a game changing unit.. to often this conversation restricts itself to gear. It could be whole squad of something.

Then play without an entire squad. You don't get to break the rules just because it would be harder to win if you don't.

Presumptuous much? I don't remember asking a question or implying I break rules. Take a second and stop looking down your nose and read my post. You are saying to me the point I was making. Some players expect to run an entire extra unit that ends up only being 5 points over. Over the limit by 5 or whatever points is over the limit period. Be it extra points from a squad with no wargear or a single melta bomb.

It's harder to pick fights and split hairs if you're not looking down you're nose though.

I think this all belongs in another thread...

"My opponent's list is 5 points over. 40k first world problems."

Hmmm... so pointing out that someone is talking down somehow makes me smug?

How about we all stop casting aspersions on each others' motivations and stock to the topic?

I'm lax, but only because I'm too wimpy to say anything.

Part of the skill of this Game is how you put together an army list.
You have to use the Points you have efficiently with the army you have. that's part of the game.

Well... if I would have known what a s***-storm this would have turned into I don't think I ever would have started the topic (although I must say watching it is rather amusing).

In the context I asked this question (which is probably not how many people play) I never know how many points we're playing to or what role I'll need to fill until I'm at the place we'll be playing. I've played 2000 points vs 2 1000 pt armies, I've filled in 500 pts for someone else who could only field 1000, I've played 4 way free for alls at 1000 pts a side (That's really fun, since we house rule you can shoot into close combats if they don't involve your units)...

I usually just see a guy who isn't playing, ask "how many players, how many points per army?" Then make my list. After I spend some time making it I'll pitch something like "hey, you said 1500, but my list is 1503. You want me to re-organize it or is that ok?" I don't walk into a game expecting my list will be ok, I ask whether he wants to wait longer while I mess with optimizing my list more vs just slapping down my first draft and rolling with it.

 Peregrine wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
I'm not going to make him lose his only Power Fist in a tactical squad because he is 1-5 points over the list.
Nor am I denying him a LC on his Razorback.

Why not? Why should someone get to go over the point limit to have a power fist instead of a power axe for their AP 2, or a LC Razorback instead of a HB Razorback? We're not even talking about having to drop an entire unit and be 100 points under the limit, just having to settle for less than the best upgrades.

just throwing this out there but if he is OK with the other person being a few points over then what is why someone should be able to be over the points limit, it is only OK to be over the points limit by any amount if both players agree that is it fine, otherwise the other person should drop something. If both players agree then anything is allowed (as long as it is not a tournament) in my books.

 Byte wrote:

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Byte wrote:
Your talking gear... it could be the diffence of being able to fit in a game changing unit.. to often this conversation restricts itself to gear. It could be whole squad of something.

Then play without an entire squad. You don't get to break the rules just because it would be harder to win if you don't.

Presumptuous much? I don't remember asking a question or implying I break rules. Take a second and stop looking down your nose and read my post. You are saying to me the point I was making. Some players expect to run an entire extra unit that ends up only being 5 points over. Over the limit by 5 or whatever points is over the limit period. Be it extra points from a squad with no wargear or a single melta bomb.

It's harder to pick fights and split hairs if you're not looking down you're nose though.

I think this all belongs in another thread...

"My opponent's list is 5 points over. 40k first world problems."

Hmmm... so pointing out that someone is talking down somehow makes me smug?

Nope, I was agreeing with you.

Honestly I think getting the points right is part of the skill so no dice on my part.

Getting to the 1500 point or other and sticking to it, having to cut and having to make changes and possibly totally readjust your strategy, fething hell people take that away you are taking away a sliver of the skill and nature of it to me.

Opps. Please disregard.

I think there is a significant miss-communication then as firstly if the opponent and you agree on a 1500. point game that is different than agreeing to a 1500+/-10 game. With a group of friends you can have an implicit understanding and there will be no need for the commissariat to get involved.

With a random group of internet people or PUG there is no such implicit understanding and you should state that it is a 1500+/-10 game. Most people as seen in this thread have the implicit understanding that there is a 1500. pts limit and will follow that what the poll shows is many of them are then lenient on others.

It is actually kind of ridiculous to show up with a list over points according to the poll as 40% of the people polled will not play you with said list.

If you are making the list right then and there you will probably have much better luck but OP that might require a new poll with different wording. You might in fact want to try what I do which is have bracketed lists and a folder. I will bring a 2 lists (competitive and easy modes) at 500, 750, 1000, 1200, 1500, 1850, and 2000 pts with me in a folder under my codex in my carrying case. If a new player wants to play 641 I will use the 500 pts easy mode list and play at a 141 handicap. I am not out to kill new players anyways and the handicap usually helps them absorb oops moments better.

Also I do find it funny that most comments about being looked down upon have an implicit element of martyrdom to them. This element usually implies the one who feels they are being looked down on in fact feels they are in the right and superior to their opposition.

Having said that sorry if I poured gasoline on the fire before but I couldn't help messing with all the people who kept going limit /= limit, if you bothered to read the definitions I highlighted you would see it was a pun (your breaking the limit has pushed me to the limit of my sufferance).

I think the above comment, and the preceding comment by the OP are well stated, and more inline with the original intent of the thread.

Based on my personal experience, Ansacs is the usual reaction one will get.

I think it's worth pointing out that most of the time I get the question, "Hey can I be X points over?", it's from someone who, upon agreeing to play a game, asks me what army I play then runs off to tailor a list.

Is it that hard to come up with a 500 pt, 1000 pt, 1500 pt, etc. list before heading to your friendly local?

My newest line is unfortunately, "I made my list at home, before I knew what army I'd be running against. I'd appreciate it if you built a list with the same considerations". Unless both players are running tailored lists, I'd say it's pretty bad form to tailor a list at your FLGS. It pretty much makes you TFG, and sadly it's a trend that I'm seeing more and more lately. Time to start a thread...

Playing at the shop or FLGS, I'm fairly strict. You have a cap, you know it in advance, and it's not that hard. Maybe I'm sitting at 1490 because I couldn't fit something in with that 10 points. If my opponent then has 1510, well I could have easily done something with 20 points, but now it's a back and forth tweeking the lists.

If an opponent looked over my list, and I had failed my maths and turned out I was at 1501, I would feel it completely in their rights to ask me to adjust something to bring it to 1500 or less. I expect the same from people I play with.

HOWEVER, playing at home with my brother or one of my buddies, we do everything a bit more lax. We do have a house rule of up to 1%, but you have to explain why you had to go over. The explanation doesn't have to be super air tight, but it can't be because you wanted to run 1515 because you could. Even still we tend to have more 1485 lists than 1515.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I think it's worth pointing out that most of the time I get the question, "Hey can I be X points over?", it's from someone who, upon agreeing to play a game, asks me what army I play then runs off to tailor a list.

Well, that's just lame regardless of the points.

If you're playing against a bro at home or a mate in the garage, play 1523 on 1498 and enjoy.

However when someone goes to a club or FLGS and then puts the pressure on the guys following list creation norms to allow him have an unfair advantage, I draw the line. I'm against anything that creates a negative culture of making rule abiding players feel like they will be cast in a negative light if they don't allow a lazy player to get something beyond what he should have brought to the game.

Not a point over, even if it's just against friends.

It's a limit for a reason like so many have already said, and if I go over the limit, it's off to the drawing board again until I find an army I'm happy with that's under or exactly the limit. And let me tell ya, there's a lot of times I go 1-2 points over the point limit with my necrons. Bloody 13 points warriors, such a weird number.

I like to allow my opponent margin for error, but unless I JUST wrote the list and the opponent is in a hurry to start, I always err on the side of exactly or a few points under (sometimes my army list is 1985 or 1990 for SM, for example).

 Ailaros wrote:

Griddlelol wrote:Also, the poll is rather biased. It makes out that by following the rules that two people have agreed on, I'm some how unreasonable.

Yeah, I find this curious as well.

I take a very hard line on points (we have a points system for a reason), but I wouldn't necessarily refuse to play someone because of it. Heck, I've played games with points handicaps on purpose on more than one occasion. As such, the poll isn't sufficiently nuanced.

But if I have to choose only one option, it's got to be the top one. Points limits are limits just as much as the limit of only moving 6" (Not six and a little bit more), or the limit of melta being half the range of the weapon, or the limit of only getting to do stuff on your turn or take units from your codex (or limited allies). The game is defined by its rules, not the rules subject to what one person decides on at any given time.

YEah,... and really, if you think about it, those games where you are at a bit of a points deficit compared to you opponent are probably games that you learned the most from, b/c they were more of a challenge. I mean, in a real battle, there is nothing that says that both sides of the conflict will be even... sometimes, you have to face an overpowering force, but when you do and triumph, it makes the victory all the more sweet

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kain wrote:
but I honestly don't care if that Stormraven has ceramite plating or not.

Not like I have any meltaguns anyway.

Cermite plating is not an upgrade, it comes standard with the Storm Raven.

Extra Armor on the other hand is an upgrade.

Again, not like I can pen a storm raven anyway. So who cares if you ignore crew stunned? I won't roll it ever.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say my Tau list is 1502.
Well y'know what is 2 points? Neuroweb jammer, something that makes my entire unit gain "Gets Hot" potentially game breaking.
A limit if for a reason, If you cant do a pre-agreed upon number, then go up, i will too, but do not try to make this one side

Perhaps. But would you say that every possible Warhammer 40K army list from all available Codex books is perfectly balanced at 1500 exact?

It seems to me that the "power-level" of different armies (and different lists within an army) swings some 10% to 15% each way from the nominal point-value anyhow.

No need to be more Catholic than the pope.

 Ouze wrote:
I like how the rhetoric around the hard limit camp is increasingly stronger as this thread goes on.

We've moved from various well reasoned arguments why they should be solid to claiming people who don't abide by them are stupid, dictionary definitions, and aspersions on the math and cognitive abilities of those over.

Isn't that an almost natural progression of any discussion when one side presents well reasoned arguments, per your own admission, and the other side keeps insisting that "it isn't a big deal"?

 caledoneus wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Griddlelol wrote:Also, the poll is rather biased. It makes out that by following the rules that two people have agreed on, I'm some how unreasonable.

Yeah, I find this curious as well.

I take a very hard line on points (we have a points system for a reason), but I wouldn't necessarily refuse to play someone because of it. Heck, I've played games with points handicaps on purpose on more than one occasion. As such, the poll isn't sufficiently nuanced.

But if I have to choose only one option, it's got to be the top one. Points limits are limits just as much as the limit of only moving 6" (Not six and a little bit more), or the limit of melta being half the range of the weapon, or the limit of only getting to do stuff on your turn or take units from your codex (or limited allies). The game is defined by its rules, not the rules subject to what one person decides on at any given time.

YEah,... and really, if you think about it, those games where you are at a bit of a points deficit compared to you opponent are probably games that you learned the most from, b/c they were more of a challenge. I mean, in a real battle, there is nothing that says that both sides of the conflict will be even... sometimes, you have to face an overpowering force, but when you do and triumph, it makes the victory all the more sweet

And sometimes you're the overpowering force