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I was talking about the two Primarchs fighting Angron, but if we're talking Primarchs vs psykers/sorcery Russ is at least two tiers above Gully. Gully can't make Epistolary-level psykers' heads pop like grapes by going arooooo!

What about the total lack of anything on the deathguard so far?

 Formosa wrote:
What about the total lack of anything on the deathguard so far?

Mortarian and his legion, as far as I know, have gotten very little coverage in the series compared to other Primarchs, since the heresy he's done nothing but get beaten by a basic grey knight, but during the heresy, I don't think he got much done either

Vulgar wrote:
1. Dorn - He is psychotic.
2. Angron - He's stupid, and psychotic. I don't care if it's not his fault.
3. Corax - Whiner.
4. Horus - So freaking weak. He was turned too damn easily. He had the least amount of reasoning. That piece of gak chose.

I don't know what to think about the Lion anymore. At one point I was convinced he was basically Curze with a knightly candy coating, but now I don't know what to think. How much Guilliman seems in awe of him really threw me for a loop.

Not even close to being true.

Leman Russ the Brute, The Hypocrite, and all around nasty Allfather of an equally nasty legion.

Russ for beign beign a hypocrite and yust comming over as a dumb giant douche. Angron of all people verbaly beat him to the ground.

Horus for beign so weak willed and gullible.

Suprised by the hate for lorgar, He acomplished more thenn anny other, playing the galaxy setting up the heresy.
He was also about even with Gully while simultanius creating the ruin storm and fighting a phycic battle.

Amoras wrote:
Suprised by the hate for lorgar, He acomplished more thenn anny other, playing the galaxy setting up the heresy.

Wait, so you criticize Horus for being weak-willed, but are surprised for the hate of the weakest willed primarch of them all?

I mean, I guess you can say Lorgar "accomplished" something. It took the assistance of the Chaos gods, who chose him because he was emotionally, mentally, and spiritually weak, and thus made him easy pickings. Ultimately, all Lorgar did was get tricked by Chaos, then attempt to unravel all the accomplishments of mankind because he felt like Daddy didn't love him enough.

Lorgar is easily the most contemptible of the primarchs. At least Angron and Curze had excuses for why they were sociopaths. Lorgar was just an emo whiner. And then, after the Heresy was over, he locked himself in a tower writing a book nobody will ever read.

Lorgar was the kid who flipped the table over when he decided he didn't like the game anymore. Then decided he was going to try to burn the board and all of the pieces so nobody else could play anymore either.

That wasn't his motivation. Lorgar's long-standing disagreement with the Emperor was over whether humanity needed faith to survive in a hostile universe, whether they need to look outside themselves to find meaning and purpose. The fact that the form of Chaos is horrifying to mortals is due to their limited perspective. If we truly embrace and serve the Gods as they please, we will be rewarded with what the Emperor wanted all along, humanity as the predominant power in the universe. A power in service to a greater power still. Eldar had their chance at transcendence, but ran from it and have thus been doomed to extinction. Humanity will suffer the same fate if we repeat their mistakes.

And yes, Chaos demands tremendous sacrifice in blood and suffering, so it's understandable why people are resistant, but this is for the good of all humanity. If a bloody crusade is what it takes, so be it. Is it really so different from the Emperor purging countless civilizations in the pursuit of his own vision of unity? At least the Ruinous Powers are true gods with a true message. Once we embrace Chaos, we will be able to see beyond the horrific visage to the true beauty beneath (just look how happy those Nurgle blokes are) and we will ascend forever in glorious symbiosis.

But yes, all that "chosen glory boy of Chaos" stuff is just lip service. He was their puppet and mouthpiece, and was chosen because he was easy to manipulate (and that manipulation began while he was traveling in his capsule and continued under his cultist mentor's tutelage). Even his new-found power was sparked by the Gods funneling warp secrets directly into his head. This is his duty to this day, writing dowm whatever crazy ritual or monstrous atrocity the Gods come up with, and filtering it down to his Legion to enact.

I never liked the Boys in Blue.
Ultramarine fluff is boring as all.
Even their Successor Chapters are ugly. Its always a Blue and White/Black/Red/Green/Yellow/Gold/Orange/Bluer Blue Criss-Crossed with Gold trim.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Lorgar is easily the most contemptible of the primarchs. At least Lorgar and Curze had excuses for why they were sociopaths. Lorgar was just an emo whiner. And then, after the Heresy was over, he locked himself in a tower writing a book nobody will ever read.

His two previous books, "Lectitio Divinatatus" and the "Book of Lorgar" (a collection of his epistles), are total best-sellers... And this one is taking 10000 years. Which I think it´s the reason Chaos followers are so pissed off. He is even worse than George R R Martin.

Also I think you meant "Angron and Curze had excuses", or perhaps "Mortarion and Curze".

Roboute Gulliman for the simple reason that he is the SMURF LORD OF ALL THINGS SMURFY AND CHEESEY AND BLUE AND SMURFY

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Ferrus Manus. If we go by Forgeworld fluff the guy is borderline psycho and an unashamed fascist, randomly murdering civilians on compliant worlds

I think they are all borderline psykos with daddy issues


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wildboar wrote:

 tomball0706 wrote:
I'm quite surprised to see that Leman Russ is actually winning... I knew quite a few people disliked him, but not that he was the most disliked!

Not speaking for everyone on here, I was about to click Leman Russ but realised it's not actually Russ I dislike. He's a bit of a dick in his approach to matters at times but it's mainly the Russ fanboys I cannot stand. Russ this Russ that, he is tarnished by my thoughts of them.

After that moment of clarity I voted for Lorgar, mainly because I believe he is for want of a better word, a tw*t.

Whilst that accusation is true for a number of the Primarchs for various reasons, Lorgars immense daddy doesn't love me issues get right on my tits.

no primarch boasted about their abilities as much as Russ and no fanboy boasts about their primarch like Russ fanboys.

I see a correlation and reason for the hatred

I dislike Angron the most. He's the most junkyard dog of all the Primarchs, and seems to have the least say in what he does. I saw him more as a pawn then any real leader in the Heresy. Horus pointed and he went after it.

Sure, he may have acted as if he didn't care, but I just don't think he lived up to the level of admiration that most Primarchs got from their legions.

 tomball0706 wrote:
I'm quite surprised to see that Leman Russ is actually winning... I knew quite a few people disliked him, but not that he was the most disliked!

It's a Dakka tradition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I picked Corax ... not because I don't like; just because I like him the least. He's a bit dull in the current mix.

I picked Corax because he's so incredibly boring.

All the primarchs are broken children. They're all delusional hypocrites. The Emperor failed to a degree that is beyond hilarious when it came to preparing them for their roles at the head of the legions. I could write a book about all the things wrong with each of the 18, except that Black Library did it for me.

S'all part of the plan, my friend.

 Matt1785 wrote:
I dislike Angron the most. He's the most junkyard dog of all the Primarchs, and seems to have the least say in what he does. I saw him more as a pawn then any real leader in the Heresy. Horus pointed and he went after it.

Sure, he may have acted as if he didn't care, but I just don't think he lived up to the level of admiration that most Primarchs got from their legions.

Lol, your comment is very ironic considering the events of Betrayer. They cover those exact topics.

Also, everyone tagging Gully or Corax or whoever else as most boring has to ask themselves, what about the Khan? At least those boring characters are still characters. Khan has like 2 lines in the entire decades long history of 40K.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I picked Corax because he's so incredibly boring.

All the primarchs are broken children. They're all delusional hypocrites. The Emperor failed to a degree that is beyond hilarious when it came to preparing them for their roles at the head of the legions. I could write a book about all the things wrong with each of the 18, except that Black Library did it for me.

Just to give one easy and one random example, how were Guilliman and Vulkan "delusional hypocrites"? How were they unprepared for their role? What, one was too capable and the other too immortal?

I voted for the smurf for the simple fact that he's the guy who's in charge of the Smurfs...

But, I also voted for him because he is the Sheldon Cooper of the Primarchs.


He had the largest legion at the outset of the heresy, this was due to his "outstanding organizational skills"... Was it really? Or, was it because he was an OCD prick who browbeat, and demanded that EVERYONE do exactly as he wished? No one really wanted to adopt the Codex Astartes, or break up the Legions, except for him, and he eventually wore them down and got his way.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 derek wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Ferrus Manus strikes me as the kind of guy that hides his many shortcomings under the guise of brutality and extremism.

just like Angron but we all love him...

Not true, least favorite Primarch of mine, followed by Ferrus Manus, who was much cooler before the HH books made him into a giant bag of dicks.

I'll take Angron's "Hurr durr break things!!!" attitude over Ferrus' "Earn the air you breathe, puny human" anytime.

But agreed, Angron is a mess. The Emperor should have given him the mercy shot the moment he found him, but he thought perhaps it would be fun if one of his legions of invaluable gene-enhanced warriors was led by a functional idiot with the temper of a fighting bull. Well, at least he's got that freaky implant doing bad, bad things to his brains as an excuse, while Ferrus derives his douchebaggery from perhaps too many hours of surfing neonazi websites while listening to Kraftwerk's "The man-machine" on repeat. Like El'Jonson, Fulgrim, Perturabo and many other illustrious d-bags of the far future, he has no alibi.

It wasn't that. It simply was the GEOM being a terrible father and fairly angered a good chunk of his children by winning their fights for them. Angron and Mortarian come especially to mind. They may have ended up stalwart advocates of the GEOM and some of his most loyal sons had he not spirited them away before they could finish their fight, or even win it for them. The GEOM should have bolstered Angron's forces to overthrow his oppressors and let him be, and he should have given Mortarian control of the Dusk Raiders to kill the necromancer lord.

The only one that was utterly insane he should have dealt with was Konrad. Curze should have received a bloody century of conseuling before the GEOM gave his psychopath of a son that suffered from having a 'split' personality control of a whole damn Legion of Astartes. Because that could never go wrong!

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 derek wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Ferrus Manus strikes me as the kind of guy that hides his many shortcomings under the guise of brutality and extremism.

just like Angron but we all love him...

Not true, least favorite Primarch of mine, followed by Ferrus Manus, who was much cooler before the HH books made him into a giant bag of dicks.

I'll take Angron's "Hurr durr break things!!!" attitude over Ferrus' "Earn the air you breathe, puny human" anytime.

But agreed, Angron is a mess. The Emperor should have given him the mercy shot the moment he found him, but he thought perhaps it would be fun if one of his legions of invaluable gene-enhanced warriors was led by a functional idiot with the temper of a fighting bull. Well, at least he's got that freaky implant doing bad, bad things to his brains as an excuse, while Ferrus derives his douchebaggery from perhaps too many hours of surfing neonazi websites while listening to Kraftwerk's "The man-machine" on repeat. Like El'Jonson, Fulgrim, Perturabo and many other illustrious d-bags of the far future, he has no alibi.

It wasn't that. It simply was the GEOM being a terrible father and fairly angered a good chunk of his children by winning their fights for them. Angron and Mortarian come especially to mind. They may have ended up stalwart advocates of the GEOM and some of his most loyal sons had he not spirited them away before they could finish their fight, or even win it for them. The GEOM should have bolstered Angron's forces to overthrow his oppressors and let him be, and he should have given Mortarian control of the Dusk Raiders to kill the necromancer lord.

The only one that was utterly insane he should have dealt with was Konrad. Curze should have received a bloody century of conseuling before the GEOM gave his psychopath of a son that suffered from having a 'split' personality control of a whole damn Legion of Astartes. Because that could never go wrong!

If you think Curze was bad (iirc, he got some training off've Fulgrim?) what about Angron?
Ol Empy kidnaps him from his planet, prevents his honourable death, lets all his army get killed, does nothing to punish the people who inflicted the nails on him - THEN PUTS HIM STRAIGHT IN CHARGE OF A LEGION.
Cause thats never gonna go wrong...
It took Angron how long to stop killing his own captains?

I like this poll - its another chance to vote Russ for people that missed the last 20 bazillion polls

 PredaKhaine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 derek wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Ferrus Manus strikes me as the kind of guy that hides his many shortcomings under the guise of brutality and extremism.

just like Angron but we all love him...

Not true, least favorite Primarch of mine, followed by Ferrus Manus, who was much cooler before the HH books made him into a giant bag of dicks.

I'll take Angron's "Hurr durr break things!!!" attitude over Ferrus' "Earn the air you breathe, puny human" anytime.

But agreed, Angron is a mess. The Emperor should have given him the mercy shot the moment he found him, but he thought perhaps it would be fun if one of his legions of invaluable gene-enhanced warriors was led by a functional idiot with the temper of a fighting bull. Well, at least he's got that freaky implant doing bad, bad things to his brains as an excuse, while Ferrus derives his douchebaggery from perhaps too many hours of surfing neonazi websites while listening to Kraftwerk's "The man-machine" on repeat. Like El'Jonson, Fulgrim, Perturabo and many other illustrious d-bags of the far future, he has no alibi.

It wasn't that. It simply was the GEOM being a terrible father and fairly angered a good chunk of his children by winning their fights for them. Angron and Mortarian come especially to mind. They may have ended up stalwart advocates of the GEOM and some of his most loyal sons had he not spirited them away before they could finish their fight, or even win it for them. The GEOM should have bolstered Angron's forces to overthrow his oppressors and let him be, and he should have given Mortarian control of the Dusk Raiders to kill the necromancer lord.

The only one that was utterly insane he should have dealt with was Konrad. Curze should have received a bloody century of conseuling before the GEOM gave his psychopath of a son that suffered from having a 'split' personality control of a whole damn Legion of Astartes. Because that could never go wrong!

If you think Curze was bad (iirc, he got some training off've Fulgrim?) what about Angron?
Ol Empy kidnaps him from his planet, prevents his honourable death, lets all his army get killed, does nothing to punish the people who inflicted the nails on him - THEN PUTS HIM STRAIGHT IN CHARGE OF A LEGION.
Cause thats never gonna go wrong...
It took Angron how long to stop killing his own captains?

I like this poll - its another chance to vote Russ for people that missed the last 20 bazillion polls

At least Angron liked his Legion and sons, and was 'stable' in that he was predictable. Curze was swinging between crazy and even moar crazy (although yet at the same time remaining the sanest man in the galaxy) and ended hating his Legion's guts. Meanwhile, all the GEOM could have done was given Angron his legion and let him finish the battle, and not forcibly extract him to do the job for him. The GEOM clearly should have read some 'Parenting 101' books.

The only real problem Angron had managing his legion was 'controlling' his librarians.

Yeah - Emps parenting skills<Cardboard.

lol @ 'controlling'

 Omegus wrote:

Also, everyone tagging Gully or Corax or whoever else as most boring has to ask themselves, what about the Khan? At least those boring characters are still characters. Khan has like 2 lines in the entire decades long history of 40K.

I think that's why I like Khan better than Corax.

Ferrus Manus. Why, you ask? It's a very simple and superficial reason. But seriously. His name is 'Iron Iron' in Latin. It's like the ultimate hominid Moon Moon.

da001 wrote:Also I think you meant "Angron and Curze had excuses",

You are correct sir. D'oh.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 derek wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Ferrus Manus strikes me as the kind of guy that hides his many shortcomings under the guise of brutality and extremism.

just like Angron but we all love him...

Not true, least favorite Primarch of mine, followed by Ferrus Manus, who was much cooler before the HH books made him into a giant bag of dicks.

I'll take Angron's "Hurr durr break things!!!" attitude over Ferrus' "Earn the air you breathe, puny human" anytime.

But agreed, Angron is a mess. The Emperor should have given him the mercy shot the moment he found him, but he thought perhaps it would be fun if one of his legions of invaluable gene-enhanced warriors was led by a functional idiot with the temper of a fighting bull. Well, at least he's got that freaky implant doing bad, bad things to his brains as an excuse, while Ferrus derives his douchebaggery from perhaps too many hours of surfing neonazi websites while listening to Kraftwerk's "The man-machine" on repeat. Like El'Jonson, Fulgrim, Perturabo and many other illustrious d-bags of the far future, he has no alibi.

It wasn't that. It simply was the GEOM being a terrible father and fairly angered a good chunk of his children by winning their fights for them. Angron and Mortarian come especially to mind. They may have ended up stalwart advocates of the GEOM and some of his most loyal sons had he not spirited them away before they could finish their fight, or even win it for them. The GEOM should have bolstered Angron's forces to overthrow his oppressors and let him be, and he should have given Mortarian control of the Dusk Raiders to kill the necromancer lord.

The only one that was utterly insane he should have dealt with was Konrad. Curze should have received a bloody century of conseuling before the GEOM gave his psychopath of a son that suffered from having a 'split' personality control of a whole damn Legion of Astartes. Because that could never go wrong!

If you think Curze was bad (iirc, he got some training off've Fulgrim?) what about Angron?
Ol Empy kidnaps him from his planet, prevents his honourable death, lets all his army get killed, does nothing to punish the people who inflicted the nails on him - THEN PUTS HIM STRAIGHT IN CHARGE OF A LEGION.
Cause thats never gonna go wrong...
It took Angron how long to stop killing his own captains?

I like this poll - its another chance to vote Russ for people that missed the last 20 bazillion polls

At least Angron liked his Legion and sons, and was 'stable' in that he was predictable. Curze was swinging between crazy and even moar crazy (although yet at the same time remaining the sanest man in the galaxy) and ended hating his Legion's guts. Meanwhile, all the GEOM could have done was given Angron his legion and let him finish the battle, and not forcibly extract him to do the job for him. The GEOM clearly should have read some 'Parenting 101' books.

The only real problem Angron had managing his legion was 'controlling' his librarians.

Angron states a lot that the reason why he continuously throws himself recklessly into the face of the enemy is not just cause of the nails and what they did to him, but is because he simply did not care for his own life, he says that he died on his home world with his people, that now he is nothing more than an empty shell who just wants to see his long dead brothers and sisters again. GEOM could of at least let him fight a bit with his people or hell, even teleported himself down there. I'm pretty sure seeing the Emperor destroy his enemies by the dozen and fight back to back next to him would of defintely 100% won the begruding resepct of Angron. But hey, if there is one thing that the HH tells us, is that good ole Empy cannot parent for gak.

Concerning his Librarian problems, it was more that they gave everyone a major headache and a nosebleed, Angron could hold a titans foot above his head for ages but couldn't handle a little nosebleed which frankly, I find hilarious

And I almost feel bad for the wolfingwolf lord, he's not really a bad Primarch, just his legion of fanboys are a major pain in the behind and never shut up. But then I have a big crush on Magnus so ergo, the smelly dog gets hate from me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheLinguist wrote:
Ferrus Manus. Why, you ask? It's a very simple and superficial reason. But seriously. His name is 'Iron Iron' in Latin. It's like the ultimate hominid Moon Moon.

I can imagine this being Ferrus and the guy next to him Fulgrim while they were still BFFS

I am unsubbing because this has turned into a fan boy arguement


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am unsubbing because this has turned into a fan boy arguement

When was it ever going to be anything but?


Oh, you're new here. Nevermind.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
When was it ever going to be anything but?


Oh, you're new here. Nevermind.

I'm almost sorry, I just couldn't resist

Fulgrim's fourth. This pleases him.