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Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
I mean.... the units would all become pretty much garbage that way. DW with no SIA? Even worse Grey Knights? Sisters with no prayers? They'd need something major to compensate.
nnnno? Deathwatch with no Mission Protocols, Grey Knights with no....what actually IS the GK chapter tactic? and Sisters with no Ordo tactic. None of those rules you listed are linked to <subfaction>. Though I suppose in the case of GK and DW you would need to specify that they don't get Mission Tactics/Grey Knight Thingy, because they don't have a <subfaction> choice.
And yeah, the goal would be to make Imperial Agents NOT the best way to run Deathwatch (for example) by granting them access to Imperial Guardsmen as troop choices. just to make the various Imperial Agents units actually fieldable outside of a way overcommitted detachment.
All those things are pretty critical to those units being mildly competitive. And they're really not then. Honestly, trying to jam all of them into a single codex seems like the hard way to go about it. It'd be substantially easier to just give the respective Ordos a rule that lets them be taken in associated detachments as if they had the keyword. Don't make Deathwatch fit into an Eisenhorn detachment; just let Eisenhorn be taken in a Deathwatch one.
Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
I mean.... the units would all become pretty much garbage that way. DW with no SIA? Even worse Grey Knights? Sisters with no prayers? They'd need something major to compensate.
nnnno? Deathwatch with no Mission Protocols, Grey Knights with no....what actually IS the GK chapter tactic? and Sisters with no Ordo tactic. None of those rules you listed are linked to <subfaction>. Though I suppose in the case of GK and DW you would need to specify that they don't get Mission Tactics/Grey Knight Thingy, because they don't have a <subfaction> choice.
And yeah, the goal would be to make Imperial Agents NOT the best way to run Deathwatch (for example) by granting them access to Imperial Guardsmen as troop choices. just to make the various Imperial Agents units actually fieldable outside of a way overcommitted detachment.
All those things are pretty critical to those units being mildly competitive. And they're really not then. Honestly, trying to jam all of them into a single codex seems like the hard way to go about it. It'd be substantially easier to just give the respective Ordos a rule that lets them be taken in associated detachments as if they had the keyword. Don't make Deathwatch fit into an Eisenhorn detachment; just let Eisenhorn be taken in a Deathwatch one.
That would also work. However, I think you might have complaints about being able to add a unit like Acolytes to deathwatch.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Sterling191 wrote: 8ppm wannabe guardsmen with terrible rules and living in the Elite slot arent going to do a damn thing for Deathwatch.
All I'm saying is, if you add inquisiton to existing factions, you are opening up the possibility that they displace currently taken options within that faction. I've had it happen to my GSC, where there's currently no reason to take Neophytes when Brood Brothers exist, and it sucks.
I don't know that acolytes are going to be 8ppm guardsmen after this rule update. Maybe they'll be totally gone, since they don't make models for them anymore. Maybe they'll be updated to be good.
End of the day, if they want any imperial agents stuff to meaningfully exist, it needs to work in matched play 3 detachment limit games. Otherwise it will stay purely casual-only narrative play like it is now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/08 20:14:47
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Karthicus wrote: I plan on getting this one as soon as the digital is released. If they are good enough to trade off for doctrines, I could build some BT + Inquis lists.
I can almost guarantee they will not be, lol. GW has basically never succeeded at making inquisition work, and they are so fractured and nonfunctional in 8th.
Just by keywords alone, their list has been so badly splintered it's impossible to field.
If you want to know my perfect wish list for an inquisition setup, it would be this:
IMPERIAL AGENTS
A detachment that includes 1 or more Inquisitor may be designated as an IMPERIAL AGENTS detachment. IMPERIAL AGENTS detachments gain no rules linked to <subfaction> traits, but may be composed of units with the following keywords:
INQUISITION
ASTRA MILITARUM
ADEPTA SORORITAS*
DEATHWATCH**
GREY KNIGHTS***
OFFICIO ASSASSINORUM
SISTERS OF SILENCE
ASTRA TELEPATHICA
ADEPTUS MINISTORUM
*Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO HERETICUS keyword are present
**Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO XENOS keyword are present
***Only if one or more INQUISITORS with the ORDO MALLEUS keyword are present
That, alongside a couple of rules updates, would give you a perfectly fluffy, but not OP/competitive, imperial agents matched play setup.
I mean.... the units would all become pretty much garbage that way. DW with no SIA? Even worse Grey Knights? Sisters with no prayers? They'd need something major to compensate.
nnnno? Deathwatch with no Mission Protocols, Grey Knights with no....what actually IS the GK chapter tactic? and Sisters with no Ordo tactic. None of those rules you listed are linked to <subfaction>. Though I suppose in the case of GK and DW you would need to specify that they don't get Mission Tactics/Grey Knight Thingy, because they don't have a <subfaction> choice.
And yeah, the goal would be to make Imperial Agents NOT the best way to run Deathwatch (for example) by granting them access to Imperial Guardsmen as troop choices. just to make the various Imperial Agents units actually fieldable outside of a way overcommitted detachment.
All those things are pretty critical to those units being mildly competitive. And they're really not then. Honestly, trying to jam all of them into a single codex seems like the hard way to go about it. It'd be substantially easier to just give the respective Ordos a rule that lets them be taken in associated detachments as if they had the keyword. Don't make Deathwatch fit into an Eisenhorn detachment; just let Eisenhorn be taken in a Deathwatch one.
I mean, it's really the ammo that keeps Deathwatch alive, not the selective rerolling of 1's to wound. Grey Knights LOL who cares? Sisters...are mediocre without the traits basically and rely on cheapish bodies with good weapon saturation.
That said, eliminating those things because the Inquisition is present is pretty fething stupid. I don't think even GW would be that daft but they never fail to surprise me nowadays.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
All I'm saying is, if you add inquisiton to existing factions, you are opening up the possibility that they displace currently taken options within that faction.
You hilariously overestimate the capacity of Inquisition models to do anything on the table.They're not displacing anything.
All I'm saying is, if you add inquisiton to existing factions, you are opening up the possibility that they displace currently taken options within that faction.
You hilariously overestimate the capacity of Inquisition models to do anything on the table.They're not displacing anything.
deep striking the terminator storm shield character where he can mind control a knight into obliterating the thing standing next to it works though
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
cuda1179 wrote: I'm just glad Inquisitor Kazamarov is still a thing. He's possibly one of the more unique models in all of 40k and he simply looks badass.
Unfortunately he lost his Bombardment thing I think. If he gets it back I would be so tempted to bring him in an Imperial Fists bombardment spam I've been theory crafting.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Well...I guess I did not think that Inquisition would be getting MORE restrictive with these rules, lol. Inquisitors are just so mind-bogglingly OP that they're 1 per detachment like tau commanders. Hot.
Also, that Cyclonic Torpedo, lol.
"And now, I shall spend fully half my army's CP on this once-per-game ultrastratagem, rolling randomly to see if I can do mortal wounds to models within
*Rolls 2d6*
TWO INCHES of this point!!!!!!!!!"
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
A.T. wrote: Points costs unchanged for the basic units, but cheaper wargear.
I really hope the poor Inquisitors finally get the invul and the Acolytes get a statline buff. But point costs being exactly the same is worrying.
I'd be surprised if they get any changes to their options at all. Terminator armor is still limited to Malleus Inquisitors. That doesn't exactly raise confidence that options were added or opened up.
Plus the way GW writes rules these days, a White Dwarf codex adds stratagems, warlord traits, relics, psyker powers - all stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the actual datasheets.
8th ed is designed to be top heavy with a rotten foundation. No reason to believe the Inquisition will be any different.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
The effects of the Ordos appear to be exactly the same. Shame, because it means "Specialists" is the only one I'd ever not feel scummy for using.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galas wrote: Like imperial armies are starving for CP...
I just like that they looked at every other MW-generating stratagem that literally no human has ever once in their life thought about using, and went
"Wooooah now, these three CP stratagems SURE ARE OP, we gotta reign that gak in there tiger. How 'bout 4CP and once per game for this one huh?"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 14:22:03
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
OTOH, its gonna be hilarious to drop in an IF orbital strike list for gaks and giggles. Quadruple nukes turn one? Yeah I'll give that a go at least once.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 14:28:04
Haha, "Few have the authority to condemn an entire world to the fires of exterminatus"
does 1d3 Mortal wounds on a 4+.....talking about fluff matching the gameplay
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like soup. Now you put soup in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put soup into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now soup can flow or it can crash. Be soup, my friend.
Crimson wrote: I really hope the poor Inquisitors finally get the invul and the Acolytes get a statline buff. But point costs being exactly the same is worrying.
It suggests the daemonhost is the same inoffensive bullet-catcher it always was. The Jokaeros weapon cost has shot right down though so that may have changed.
I wonder if they'll be able to take transports without having to ally in the rest of the army this time. I also would like to know why the inquisitors are one per detachment in their own detachment, that just adds to the awkwardness of trying to field them.
Coteaz -10
Eisenhorn -20
Karamazov -35
Digital weapons becomes Jokaero Weapons -16
Inferno Pistol -5
Plasma pIstol -2
Combi-Flamer-3
Combi-Melta -4
Combi-Plasma -4
Flamer -3
Meltagun -3
Plasma Gun -2
Nemesis Hammer -7
Null Rod gone
Power Fist -11 (lol it was TWENTY POINTS)
Thunder Hammer -9
Hotshot Lasgun is still hilariously overcosted compared to a 0-point boltgun and 2-point storm bolter.
2 S3 Ap-2 D1 shots at 9" compared to 4 S4 Ap- D1 shots at 12" for half the cost...hmmmm....
Acolytes better be back up to 2W for 8ppm. An A2 guardsman with the ability to intercept wounds, no orders and no Troops slot is not an 8pt model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 15:53:44
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Pleased can have inquisitors in other detachments - the rest looks pretty meh or worse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 15:34:25
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Sterling191 wrote: Assassins need the "you dont break doctrines" rule ASAP.
Not at all. Souping should have a stick and mono should have carrot. Exceptions for taking something outside your codex just extend the problems with soup.
Enjoy the greater flexibility of a wider collection of options or get the super-duper special snowflake bonuses. But you should have to choose.
Sterling191 wrote: Assassins need the "you dont break doctrines" rule ASAP.
Not at all. Souping should have a stick and mono should have carrot. Exceptions for taking something outside your codex just extend the problems with soup.
Enjoy the greater flexibility of a wider collection of options or get the super-duper special snowflake bonuses. But you should have to choose.
That would only happen if everyone had super duper no-soup bonuses.
But not even CSM are going to get them, lol. Spike tax FTW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/11 15:48:12
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"