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 Esmer wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I liked Firewarrior. You get to spend so much time meeting interesting, three-dimensional characters. And then Kais shoots their heads off.

The funniest one was the Chaos Dreadnought, where we get to read a pages-long recount about his millenia-long life, starting with serving the Emperor in the Great Crusade, fighting in the Horus Heresy, participating in the Siege of Terra, descending further and further into Chaos damnation, getting entombed into a Cybot sargophagus, raging for eternal slaughter...

and then he accidently falls into a hole and dies.

At least, that's how I remember it.

Reminds me of that Gaunt's Ghost story where a single guardsman takes out a Chaos Dreadnought by overloading his lasgun and the Chaos Dread being too stupid to realize that it shouldn't pick up something that is growing hotter and hotter and hissing.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Reminds me of that Gaunt's Ghost story where a single guardsman takes out a Chaos Dreadnought by overloading his lasgun and the Chaos Dread being too stupid to realize that it shouldn't pick up something that is growing hotter and hotter and hissing.

Isn't it literally blind though? And also probably more than a little insane?

I don't even think it picks up the lasgun, and it's not even really the lasgun that kills it properly. Mkoll throws his overloaded lasgun at the Dreadnought's feet, the explosion cracks open the front of it's sarcophagus, and the noise-sensitive flora around it fire meter-long spines at the source of the noise (the lasgun exploding), which kill the now-exposed pilot.

I could not for the life of me get into Burning of Prospero.

Then there was the Guard Anthology book I was gifted, with Valhallans and what not that I just donated to my FLGS library.

C.S.Goto's stuff.

Space Marines being overpowered by things weaker than common humans. Space Marines being so dumb that they forgot their mission briefings. Space Marines doing backflips in terminator armor.

Don’t forget the Eldar stealing Leman Russes en masse, and being dragged out of them by children who then do unpleasant things to the Tank Commander.

Honestly it is easier for me to list the stuff I like.
I like most of what Dan Abnett and ADB have done, though I do not like the Heresy series overall and some of the plot decisions taken.

Abnett can also write some turds, and for example the Gaunts Ghost series should have been put to bed a long time ago.

I also like what was it, Commisar Ciaphas Cain? Was that Sandy Mitchell?
The rest of the books I have read have really turgid prose that is hard to get through, or boring as hell plots, poor characterisation or some other critical flaw that really turns me off them.

Bill King does ALRIGHT with Gortrek and Felix, but I also tired of that pretty quickly. Most BL stuff is very much third rate even for tie in fiction. They are lucky to have a few talented people who like the setting writing for them.

The full Eisenhorn series. It's such a mess you could give to someone not telling him it's 40k related he would not notice it.
Where to begin ? Null girl and psy inquisitor touching / in a close relationship ? Civilian jetbikes ? The most lucky human being in the universe (if you can't think of proper way for your heroes to escape a scene, don't put them in this scene...) ? Psy hunter inquisitor that blows a psyker with plasma to cover his traces but mysteriously forgets psykers are tattooed on theirs ankles (that, ofc, remains untouched by plasma) ? Eisenhorn being the ONLY guy in the universe to have a fighter aircraft even if he is still noone of importance while others inquisitors are in unarmed speeders ? It's just... It's never ending.
But I really liked the scene in the train, though.

 Da Boss wrote:
Abnett can also write some turds, and for example the Gaunts Ghost series should have been put to bed a long time ago.

I also like what was it, Commisar Ciaphas Cain? Was that Sandy Mitchell?

Sure was. Those two series are great, though I agree that they've overstayed their welcome a bit.

 godardc wrote:
The full Eisenhorn series. It's such a mess you could give to someone not telling him it's 40k related he would not notice it.
Where to begin ? Null girl and psy inquisitor touching / in a close relationship ? Civilian jetbikes ? The most lucky human being in the universe (if you can't think of proper way for your heroes to escape a scene, don't put them in this scene...) ? Psy hunter inquisitor that blows a psyker with plasma to cover his traces but mysteriously forgets psykers are tattooed on theirs ankles (that, ofc, remains untouched by plasma) ? Eisenhorn being the ONLY guy in the universe to have a fighter aircraft even if he is still noone of importance while others inquisitors are in unarmed speeders ? It's just... It's never ending.
But I really liked the scene in the train, though.

I was totally not expecting a scene in a 40k book where someone would describe the herb omelette they were having for breakfast on the veranda. More than once.

Sometimes I think Black Library should go back to doing comics, like the old Warhammer Monthly days. A lot of their high-action, low-plot storytelling would be better served by that format, and at least bolterporn is quicker to read in pictorial form.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Sometimes I think Black Library should go back to doing comics, like the old Warhammer Monthly days. A lot of their high-action, low-plot storytelling would be better served by that format, and at least bolterporn is quicker to read in pictorial form.

What, you mean like Deff Skwadron, one of the best things GW has ever produced?

Crackedgear wrote:


I was totally not expecting a scene in a 40k book where someone would describe the herb omelette they were having for breakfast on the veranda. More than once.

The Black Library's central theme has always been MAXIMUM VIOLENCE NOW! and the Eisenhorn books were no exception. I think you forget that before he had the omelet he was cracking eggs, WITH HIS BARE HANDS.

 DalekCheese wrote:
Don’t forget the Eldar stealing Leman Russes en masse, and being dragged out of them by children who then do unpleasant things to the Tank Commander.

Is this an actually scene that happens in the book? I read elsewhere that it is just a 1d4chan meme.

 Melissia wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Sometimes I think Black Library should go back to doing comics, like the old Warhammer Monthly days. A lot of their high-action, low-plot storytelling would be better served by that format, and at least bolterporn is quicker to read in pictorial form.

What, you mean like Deff Skwadron, one of the best things GW has ever produced?

I was always partial to the old Necromunda stuff, myself. IIRC some of the Mordheim ones were pretty good as well. I've been meaning to pick up back issues of Inferno and Warhammer Monthly off of ebay sometime.

I always remember Pax Imperialis, from Warhammer Monthly 36.

The fate of that Magos is one of the worst I have seen in 40k.

Edit: I mean worst in a different way from the thread topic...

I have to say, the best Warhammer Monthly I saw was when they flipped characters/stories from the 40k world to the fantasy world and vice versa.

Kal Jerico the swashbuckling high seas pirate was fantastic. Malus Darkblade on a Dark Eldar Reaver Jetbike. Ephrael Stern as a Sister of Sigmar in Mordheim... oh yeah.

Still have that issue kicking around from when I bought it.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I have to say, the best Warhammer Monthly I saw was when they flipped characters/stories from the 40k world to the fantasy world and vice versa.

Kal Jerico the swashbuckling high seas pirate was fantastic. Malus Darkblade on a Dark Eldar Reaver Jetbike. Ephrael Stern as a Sister of Sigmar in Mordheim... oh yeah.

Still have that issue kicking around from when I bought it.

I have it as well - its fantastic

Warhammer Monthly was awesome. I wish I still had my old issues.

Inferno! Had some really cool stuff as well.

Inferno was great. Dan Abnett had some great short fiction in there. The first one I got was the one with the Escher ganger on the cover.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I've read a lot of truly forgettable ones.

The Inquisition Wars by Ian Watson were the first 40k books and I love them to death but many people hate them with great hate.

[/spoiler]

Me too. These were the books that got me into 40k, 25 years ago. Whats the source of folks hate for these? I assume not fitting 'the lore' or 'the fluff'? There wasn't much 'lore' or 'fluff' back then anyway. It was playing a table top game with cool little miniatures and filling in the blanks yourself, or just not caring. I bought a large pile of modern space marine authored books recently at a garage sale. Cant remember the titles but a few I think has chaos marines with 'butchers nails'. Worst tripe I have read for a while. It was written like as if you put a teenage kid in chaos marine armour and got him to describe his experiences. In other words goofy and gushy.

I did find the second Blood Angels Omnibus to be utter filth. Which was disappointing since the first one was a decent (at best) read.

 godardc wrote:
The full Eisenhorn series. It's such a mess you could give to someone not telling him it's 40k related he would not notice it.
Where to begin ? Null girl and psy inquisitor touching / in a close relationship ? Civilian jetbikes ? The most lucky human being in the universe (if you can't think of proper way for your heroes to escape a scene, don't put them in this scene...) ? Psy hunter inquisitor that blows a psyker with plasma to cover his traces but mysteriously forgets psykers are tattooed on theirs ankles (that, ofc, remains untouched by plasma) ? Eisenhorn being the ONLY guy in the universe to have a fighter aircraft even if he is still noone of importance while others inquisitors are in unarmed speeders ? It's just... It's never ending.
But I really liked the scene in the train, though.

Man, we must have totally different tastes, I love Eisenhorn, especially the Xenos book. I even liked him and Bequin's storyline! I think part of the reason is that I really love when authors scale it down in the 40k universe and not just galaxy shattering events constantly. But there are even marines and lots of chaos in Eisenhorn? It's clearly a 40k book

Goto's crimes against the source material and literature as a whole aside, I've only had one real "I actively disliked reading this" experience with BL so far: Battle for the Abyss.

It's absolutely a book I'd recommend skipping, helped by the fact that the entire story is pointless in the grand scheme of things. It adds absolutely nothing, with a negative payoff that made me wonder why the hell I'd just bothered reading the damn thing.

The entire plot could easily have been condensed to a subplot of a larger book, or even just mentioned off-hand as a footnote to drive something else.

Any value gained from characterisation is absolutely wasted on a few hundred pages of objective nothing.

 Murrax9 wrote:

 godardc wrote:
The full Eisenhorn series. It's such a mess you could give to someone not telling him it's 40k related he would not notice it.
Where to begin ? Null girl and psy inquisitor touching / in a close relationship ? Civilian jetbikes ? The most lucky human being in the universe (if you can't think of proper way for your heroes to escape a scene, don't put them in this scene...) ? Psy hunter inquisitor that blows a psyker with plasma to cover his traces but mysteriously forgets psykers are tattooed on theirs ankles (that, ofc, remains untouched by plasma) ? Eisenhorn being the ONLY guy in the universe to have a fighter aircraft even if he is still noone of importance while others inquisitors are in unarmed speeders ? It's just... It's never ending.
But I really liked the scene in the train, though.

Man, we must have totally different tastes, I love Eisenhorn, especially the Xenos book. I even liked him and Bequin's storyline! I think part of the reason is that I really love when authors scale it down in the 40k universe and not just galaxy shattering events constantly. But there are even marines and lots of chaos in Eisenhorn? It's clearly a 40k book

I agree with you. I recently reread them, and Eisenhorn is physically repulsed by her in Xenos. It's a testament to his empathy that he can overcome his innate loathing for untouchables and feel sorry for her. The second book is almost a full century later and it took him that long to learn to tolerate her presence. They both feel keenly for each other, and I think Abnett did a good job of emphasizing the tragic irony about their feelings (although I do think introducing the medical doctor as an alternative love interest was a misstep - for the most part I don't think romance is Abnett's strong suit, which fair enough, that's why you write for Black Library).

I tried to read Deliverance Lost a few weeks ago and did not enjoy it. Is it worth finishing? I felt that the characterizations were too on the nose - people are angsty after Istvaan V, and there's an inner cabal of people who were there vs people who weren't, and in general the prose was not very strong.

 Esmer wrote:

 DalekCheese wrote:
Don’t forget the Eldar stealing Leman Russes en masse, and being dragged out of them by children who then do unpleasant things to the Tank Commander.

Is this an actually scene that happens in the book? I read elsewhere that it is just a 1d4chan meme.

It’s both. Eldar did steal IG tanks, (thanks CS Goto!) but it’s definitely been exaggerated.

 DalekCheese wrote:

 Esmer wrote:

 DalekCheese wrote:
Don’t forget the Eldar stealing Leman Russes en masse, and being dragged out of them by children who then do unpleasant things to the Tank Commander.

Is this an actually scene that happens in the book? I read elsewhere that it is just a 1d4chan meme.

It’s both. Eldar did steal IG tanks, (thanks CS Goto!) but it’s definitely been exaggerated.

So what actually happened then? Even the basic idea is a bit silly, it's a bit like if a modern army nicked WW1 tanks to use. They're just worse in almost every way and the ways they aren't worse aren't worth being better in.

neanderthal75 wrote:

Me too. These were the books that got me into 40k, 25 years ago. Whats the source of folks hate for these? I assume not fitting 'the lore' or 'the fluff'? There wasn't much 'lore' or 'fluff' back then anyway. It was playing a table top game with cool little miniatures and filling in the blanks yourself, or just not caring.

Watson's prose style is a matter of taste, personally I can't stand it when he starts to really waffle on. His stuff has of course acquired meme status as well, thanks to being roundly mocked by TTS and the like. Still, he did have it coming in some respects. Like the whole "millions are dead, and here I munch" and "sugar on the porridge of death" stuff.

 Trickstick wrote:
I always remember Pax Imperialis, from Warhammer Monthly 36.

The fate of that Magos is one of the worst I have seen in 40k.

That's a brilliant story. A quick read, but it gives you just enough meat on the bone as to be intriguing. It makes me wish I could sculpt, so I could realize a force of Men of Iron

pm713 wrote:

 DalekCheese wrote:

 Esmer wrote:

 DalekCheese wrote:
Don’t forget the Eldar stealing Leman Russes en masse, and being dragged out of them by children who then do unpleasant things to the Tank Commander.

Is this an actually scene that happens in the book? I read elsewhere that it is just a 1d4chan meme.

It’s both. Eldar did steal IG tanks, (thanks CS Goto!) but it’s definitely been exaggerated.

So what actually happened then? Even the basic idea is a bit silly, it's a bit like if a modern army nicked WW1 tanks to use. They're just worse in almost every way and the ways they aren't worse aren't worth being better in.

Remember in the Battleship movie how they had to steal a WW2 Battleship because "worse technology is the secret trick!"? Yeah, it didn't make sense in that, either.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Remember in the Battleship movie how they had to steal a WW2 Battleship because "worse technology is the secret trick!"? Yeah, it didn't make sense in that, either.

It did make sense. An Iowa class is built like a fortress compared to a modern missile destroyer.