Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, doesn't look like I'm getting rid of my metals anytime soon. I knew the plastics were going to cost more, but this is just money-grubbing lunacy.

 Argive wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

My buddy picked me up the scorpion set, but I haven't built them - they're small, more in line with classic Eldar miniatures, but they do look beautifully cast just glancing at the bits....and I got the cool "Predator" Exarch. Also his Phoenix Lords are $18-20 which is also damn near half of the GW ones. Bizarre world we're in now...

I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

Dandelion wrote:
I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

I think everyone in this thread would be hugely pleased to be wrong.

32.50 pounds for a 5 person box isn't impossiable to belive, that's what SOB retributors go for.
GW generally puts out a box of 10 troops for 60 USDs these days, and charges about 55 USDs for a box of 5 elites/heavy support etc. there are a few exceptions (hellblasters come to mind) but generally this is the pricing stragety. expecting them to be massivly cheaper because they're not as many points is proably wishful thinking.

Dandelion wrote:
I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/23/sunday-preview-incubi-banshees-and-black-library-celebration/

"Joining their esteemed leader, you’ll be able to pre-order a box (or three) of updated Howling Banshees Aspect Warriors in plastic. Each kit of five includes both helmeted or bare headed options, and they’re armed with the iconic shuriken pistol and power sword pairing. You can optionally build one model as an Exarch, with a choice of four different heads and several weapon options, so none of your Exarchs need look the same."

I dont know.. seems pretty cut and dry.
Maybe the leaked price is incorrect and they will be in line with DA kit.

5 dollar higher than expected, GW is the master of subverting expectation.

You were preparing for disappointment if you really think this will be cheaper than 50US$

 Elbows wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

My buddy picked me up the scorpion set, but I haven't built them - they're small, more in line with classic Eldar miniatures, but they do look beautifully cast just glancing at the bits....and I got the cool "Predator" Exarch. Also his Phoenix Lords are $18-20 which is also damn near half of the GW ones. Bizarre world we're in now...

Artel has Phoenix Lord sculpts too now?!?

Anyone have a link?

BrianDavion wrote:
32.50 pounds for a 5 person box isn't impossiable to belive, that's what SOB retributors go for.
GW generally puts out a box of 10 troops for 60 USDs these days, and charges about 55 USDs for a box of 5 elites/heavy support etc. there are a few exceptions (hellblasters come to mind) but generally this is the pricing stragety. expecting them to be massivly cheaper because they're not as many points is proably wishful thinking.

I’m pretty sure the retributors and havocs are the exception. Even GSC aberrants are only 40USD and they’re newer than most primaris. (Also, I don’t think you can buy hellblasters in squads of 5 anymore)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/23/sunday-preview-incubi-banshees-and-black-library-celebration/

"Joining their esteemed leader, you’ll be able to pre-order a box (or three) of updated Howling Banshees Aspect Warriors in plastic. Each kit of five includes both helmeted or bare headed options, and they’re armed with the iconic shuriken pistol and power sword pairing. You can optionally build one model as an Exarch, with a choice of four different heads and several weapon options, so none of your Exarchs need look the same."

I dont know.. seems pretty cut and dry.
Maybe the leaked price is incorrect and they will be in line with DA kit.

It does seem cut and dry, but the article could simply be wrong.

Yes, he's been doing a decent chunk of Eldar lately

-One or two Farseer models (options for heads/hands, etc.)
-Banshees and Jain Zar stand-in (not my favourite of his)
-Dark Reaper unit with Exarch (my least favourite of his sculpts)
-Fire Dragons and Exarch, and Fuegan (really beautiful ones - Fuegan is on an annoying base though)
-Beautiful Scorpions, Exarch and Karandras - my favourite ones
-He's working on a really nice set of Rangers and has been showing off images, etc.

Considering his resin has been immaculate every time I've seen it, he's the place to go for new fancy Eldar, but it's still pricey of course.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

My buddy picked me up the scorpion set, but I haven't built them - they're small, more in line with classic Eldar miniatures, but they do look beautifully cast just glancing at the bits....and I got the cool "Predator" Exarch. Also his Phoenix Lords are $18-20 which is also damn near half of the GW ones. Bizarre world we're in now...

Artel has Phoenix Lord sculpts too now?!?

Anyone have a link?

So far they have done Void stalkers : Who happen to resemble howling banshees by accident.. but I mean I dunno.. I suppose it depends..... riiiight.

https://artelw.com/Red-Witch-Voidstalker-Prime-p99026185

They done shadowhunters who look like predator but also seem to sort of resemble striking scorpions.. All coincidental of course.

https://artelw.com/Shadow-Hunter-Prime-p127483498

And they also did fire drakes... Who incidentaly resemble a GW model with a similar draconic derived name.. I mean its all coincidence you see..

https://artelw.com/Flaming-Drake-Prime-p144581582

 Alpharius wrote:

Artel has Phoenix Lord sculpts too now?!?

Anyone have a link?

https://artelw.com/search?keyword=prime

Just Banshee, Scorpion and Fire Dragon so far, but at the rate they're churning stuff out lately, it probably won't be long before they have the others.

Anyone know if the poor sales of Blood of the Phoenix would have influenced the price of the Banshees? Would they try to recoup their losses on that boxed set by increasing the price of Jain Zar/Banshees, or do you think those prices were set well in advance?

Here's the thing; GW is big enough that they've likely never "lost" money on anything they've produced in the past 5-10 years, maybe even before that. Now, do they have sales expectations? Sure, but there is no massive investment they're losing money on if a kit has poor sales.

Historically people talk about plastic molds being exorbitantly expensive, and they are - but not for a company of GW's size. Plastic molds are very expensive for smaller companies, because they can be in the tens of thousands of dollars to get up and running. GW is beyond that concern.

Most of the Blood of the Phoenix box was old kits anyway, long-term molds they've already abused for 20+ years (yep, the Falcon and Vyper came out in...1997?). Those molds have long since paid themselves off.

Let's make a bizarre assumption. Say a mold for the Howling Banshees kit is $50,000 USD (which it's likely not, I'm exaggerating for the purposes of this discussion). Do we think GW won't sell more than 1,000 copies of a $55 box within the first week they sell that kit? Consider the world wide sales of a new GW kit. Hell yes they probably will. So it's not a discussion of losing money, or recouping losses...unless you simply mean that over 5-10 years a mold/kit underperforms compared to other kits...but that's the nature of the beast.

I think the prices of this kit were planned a long time ago - as I mentioned a page ago, the new Sisters of Battle heavy weapons chicks are five to a box for $55 as well (though they do come with two little flyin' cherubs). This is the price creep that will likely be the same for most new five-model elite kits going forward.

The saddest part of this, is that...assuming the worst, and it is indeed 5 models for $55....that will be the price of every Aspect Warrior kit (excluding Shining Spears which - if they get produced, will likely be three for $50-55). I don't think we've ever seen GW back-pedal on a pricing strategy. So...any future plastic Aspect Warrior kits stand a very strong chance of being priced the same. Craftworld Eldar just became even more expensive to play, which is nuts.

 puma713 wrote:
Anyone know if the poor sales of Blood of the Phoenix would have influenced the price of the Banshees? Would they try to recoup their losses on that boxed set by increasing the price of Jain Zar/Banshees, or do you think those prices were set well in advance?

I rather expect the opposite, that Blood of the Phoenix was so expensive (and because of that sold poorly) precisely due the the pricetag GW had in mind for the new Eldar/Dark Eldar figures.

As said several times, this matches the price of the Adepta Sororitas elites. You can hope for it to be a mistake, but be prepared for disappointment if you do. And expect this to be the new normal going forwards...

If that were the reason for the price of these minis, then one would have to assume that they've been losing money on everything across the board for at least the last 5 years.

Except their financials prove that that isn't the case, and business is booming, and GW have decided to pass the profits on to precisely none of the customer base, and instead subject their so-called "community" to regular arbitrary price hikes.

craggy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

Would be nice if complaining would at least start once prices are known rather than day before.

It'd be nice if they released the price when they announced the things are coming out. But hold on, they're not officially announced, we've got the announcement that there's a teaser trailer due soon, before we can go and watch the real trailer (pre-order) and then finally get the proper film. GW's Erebus-tease of a pre-release schedule only breeds contempt at this point.

I can't convert prices here at the moment to properly compare with the speculation, but I've been assuming £35, same as a box of 10 Primaris, but for 5 Banshees. That's just how GW do. Anything that's not Marines gets the short end of the rules, and pay a few hundred pounds more for a similarly sized army in models too.

Well waiting for monday when preorders comes next week is such a chore

Fellas and ladies, why do you think I've said in multiple threads I am not looking forward to model updates at all. At these pricing points, if they re did a box of guard they'd be like 60 USD. You can only imagine how pricey heavy weapons squads would be. I really want rough riders but my god the cost. Makes me feel like the death of Kurtz in apocalypse now.." The horror...the horror..."

Seriously, these characters are going to cost more than a space marine primaris character ? Say What now ??

55USD for 5 Banshees ? They shouldn't be any more expensive than say 5 scions as those kits are loaded with options and I find that a bit expensive. My word, how intense. Yeah I'd be fine with no new model updates for quite awhile GW, though I'd probably still get rough riders..as much as I'd hate it.

I can't fathom the logic of paying through the nose for the models just to hope GW decides to love your faction in the future and drop even more overly expensive models in the future. That is the most strange logic leap when its a buyers market and if everyone said " Newp " they'd need to give in, or perish. As the customer you do have all the power for something you don't need to live.

I guess these prices are here to make the next gen game consoles seem cheap ? " Hey there boyyy, that new xbox is cheap !..only cost me like..3 full squads of banshees and their phoenix lord !..that's pretty reasonable ! " Though by the time they drop who knows how much these releases will be dropping at then.

There is no reason they should cost this much, though it does make the BotP box look cheap now, I think i did say it might but this is too intense GW.

I can't imagine ever feeling like I have to buy a new kit if they are dragging me over the coals. As well I can't wait to see how much Ghaz is going to come out for. 60, 70, 80,. 100 USD, maybe as much as Mortarian, wouldn't that be great. I would expect to hear much rejoicing for their greatness at that time.

Seriously, these characters are going to cost more than a space marine primaris character ? Say What now ??

Space Marine Primaris Special characters go for the same price actually. the generic HQs go for about 5 bucks less so it might be there's a "special character tax"

AngryAngel80 wrote:

I guess these prices are here to make the next gen game consoles seem cheap ?

not the next consoles but the next GW release

now yout get 5 models for 55, but we have now this new box on discount were you get 15 for 140, so buying them at the FLGS with 20% off for 115 is the best deal ever and makes them really cheap.

and you also get new rules that say you can take units of 10 or 20 models, have fun

BrianDavion wrote:

Seriously, these characters are going to cost more than a space marine primaris character ? Say What now ??

Space Marine Primaris Special characters go for the same price actually. the generic HQs go for about 5 bucks less so it might be there's a "special character tax"

It's whack especially when there are no generic characters of such. Least with marines you can run the cheaper yet still overly expensive generic characters. At this rate Ragnar is going to make me cry, he better come with wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

I guess these prices are here to make the next gen game consoles seem cheap ?

not the next consoles but the next GW release

now yout get 5 models for 55, but we have now this new box on discount were you get 15 for 140, so buying them at the FLGS with 20% off for 115 is the best deal ever and makes them really cheap.

and you also get new rules that say you can take units of 10 or 20 models, have fun

You know when the Deathguard stuff came out I thought it was pricey, but I won't lie these new prices make them seem totally reasonable in comparison.

We're living in a world where GW are struggling to manufacture enough product and experiencing record revenue year after year.

At what point do you admit that their pricing structure is actually fine?

In 10 years they will be selling 10 for 100$ and people will buy and complain

I'm so glad I have no interest in either of these kits.

10 banshees for 100 usd would be cheaper so sure, maybe. However I doubt they will continue to entice year after year as their entrenched, whale faction will eventually stop buying and I'd not count on the new age to support it when its so much more expensive than tech which is both easier to find and instantly gratifying.

As well, in 10 years 3D printing will be even better and at that point, the ones who could pay for the models will just print them themselves. It's already cheaper to do that at this point, by then it'll be pretty amazing as well.

Oh and as a note, not everyone has complained about their prices forever. I actually really didn't back then, then didn't start reaching my belly ache point till 8th was underway. Some people, did see the old prices as reasonable as opposed to currently. Though I know its more appealing to paint everyone with the same broad brush.

I also say this, not every new kit felt like even and especially in the old days that they were trying to fleece you. When the plastic dev kit came out to the metal plastic hybrid kit it was actually cheaper to buy that. Often times when they upgraded it was mildly more expensive if that, sometimes it got cheaper though. These days it is not the case ever, with but a few examples like ETB kits which they make so few of to my lament.

AngryAngel80 wrote:You know when the Deathguard stuff came out I thought it was pricey, but I won't lie these new prices make them seem totally reasonable in comparison.

This is a common buisness model, release something at a very high price to set the price point and don't expect anyone to buy it
than release something that is still overpriced but cheaper than the original price and/or the same product with a discount (or release the overpriced one first and than the too high priced product)

Vorian wrote:We're living in a world where GW are struggling to manufacture enough product and experiencing record revenue year after year.
At what point do you admit that their pricing structure is actually fine?

I would agree, if I would not have had the same discussion during Warhammer Fantasy 7th/8th

GW was making a lot of money, and people said that their price structure of ridiculous overpriced model boxes is fine

They used some boxes of some factions to test which price tag is the right one, but also took that as a conclusion that people have no interest in that faction
at the beginning of AoS they did it again, just to see how far they can get

both 8th Edition Fantasy and 1st Edition AoS were a flop and now they are going that line again with 40k, testing how much people are willing to pay

That is true, it is important to note fantasy, they bloated out of control there and killed the whole system to need to reboot it as they got so intensely wild with the pricing model. These new " Good value boxes " Feel an awful lot like Goldswords to me.

Vorian wrote:


At what point do you admit that their pricing structure is actually fine?

When it stops being a glaringly cynical effort to extract more cash from the "community", and starts actually making sense? £32 for 5 minis? Say that to yourself a few times, then think of all the other cool stuff you could spend that money on. Think of all the movies, all the meals out, all the traveling you could off the back of that. Sure, it's not a fortune, but you could do way more fun stuff than 5 banshees.

Then think of 5 small plastic space men, that are just re-dos of an OLD ASS resin kit that is always filled with bubbles and deformities that was a cost-saving measure (with all those costs saved passed directly to the customer, in the sense that GW said "feth the customer" and raised the price.) to replicate an EVEN OLDER metal kit that cost even less, even accounting for inflation when it was released.

Then think of the "community" overseas, like NZ, Australia, and yes, even Japan. Out here, these will cost more than £50.
Think about the one good deal GW have passed on to their customers in the last 5 years, the Start Collecting boxes - which they price hiked, too. Again, out here, over £100. Try making that pitch to a mate who is kinda cynically curious about those odd little men you paint.

Think of all the missed out sales, the throttled enthusiasm, the inevitable cynicism as their media machine keeps on advertising a Great Deal™️! On some AWESOME™️ new Games Workshop™️ EXCLUSIVE™️ minatures! Now back to deleting™️ any negative nancy comments on our social media channels, because there's no such thing as irony for a company that built its brand on lampooning totalitarian thinking.

Think about how all the people holding up the shield of "when the new factory opens, and GW can manufacture enough product..." GW brought up the price of decades old kits mere months ago. Kits that have long since paid themselves off. I would love to be wrong here, but I don't have much hope. At what point do you admit that GWs pricing structure is only serving to alienate its customers, its community, its fans, its painters, and any potential new blood, because they can't see the social element of how their business works, and can only see £ signs and hungry shareholders?

I think if you're happy to keep letting the GW price apologist line of "ooh, the mystical market knows best, if there's demand, and some whales willing to fork out, the market can't be wrong, companies are incapable of making mistakes, it's the fault of the little man for not working hard enough to prop them up, ooh, the market, the market!" win, that's fine. But as an increasingly large part of the scene keeps vocalizing, lines are being crossed, and wallets are shutting. That doesn't sound like sustainable pricing structure to me.

 kodos wrote:
both 8th Edition Fantasy and 1st Edition AoS were a flop and now they are going that line again with 40k, testing how much people are willing to pay

FB flopped because GW stopped producing new releases for them. First they had top 3 seller in their hand, then they stopped producing new products when products sell most of their lifetime sales in first 3 months. No releases, no sales. They instead decided top 3 miniature game seller isn't enough as it didn't match space marine sales.

AOS is whole another level of mess and prices were hardly the issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 posermcbogus wrote:


Think about how all the people holding up the shield of "when the new factory opens, and GW can manufacture enough product..." GW brought up the price of decades old kits mere months ago. Kits that have long since paid themselves off. I would love to be wrong here, but I don't have much hope. At what point do you admit that GWs pricing structure is only serving to alienate its customers, its community, its fans, its painters, and any potential new blood, because they can't see the social element of how their business works, and can only see £ signs and hungry shareholders?

I think if you're happy to keep letting the GW price apologist line of "ooh, the mystical market knows best, if there's demand, and some whales willing to fork out, the market can't be wrong, companies are incapable of making mistakes, it's the fault of the little man for not working hard enough to prop them up, ooh, the market, the market!" win, that's fine. But as an increasingly large part of the scene keeps vocalizing, lines are being crossed, and wallets are shutting. That doesn't sound like sustainable pricing structure to me.

Thing is if they can't produce more price IS correct for them. Lowering price would have: Same sales(production capability is capped remember), lower price.

you can arque about cheaper price sells more until your face is blue but until you can actually sell more with cheaper price that's irrelevant if they cannot sell more. Especially as halving price would need to more than double the sale count to be even break even proposal.

Games workshop is a busniess. not only are they a busniess, but they're incorperated, meaning they are owned by Shareholders. These Shareholders expect the company to turn a profit. If warhammer 40k's manafacturing is taxed to capacity and there is still high demand for the product, they're going to see how much they can charge. that's the nature of the beast.
Dealing with corperations in our hobby means we're always going to have to accept a degree of "these people don't actually care about the hobby and just wanna maximize profits from it" weather this is from GW's pricing or FFG's recent "reorginization".
It's just a fact of life.