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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Armpit of NY

I must have missed the briefing where it was said that the world owes you a comfortable living just because you’re following your dream to be a ‘game designer’. It’s a job with few positions, and a lot of people willing to do it. Thus, it does not pay well, because they can find the next moron ‘following their dream’ easily enough when you get sick of the low pay. Until that changes, the pay will be low.

It’s gotten that way with college degrees, to the point many of them are meaningless. Does the world owe you a comfortable life because you went $200K in debt studying 17th century French literature? Or were you a fool for ‘following your dream’ and studying something that had almost zero career path?

And now your student loan debt is my problem, because you studied something useless, and bought into the mantra chanted by the mind numbed robots - ‘Everyone must go to college! Everyone needs a degree!’ A high school degree is virtually worthless in the USA now. When everyone has a college degree, they will be worthless as well. AS and BS degrees are all but toilet paper now; soon you’ll need a master’s for an entry level job, thanks to the industrial-education complex.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 totalfailure wrote:
I must have missed the briefing where it was said that the world owes you a comfortable living just because you’re following your dream to be a ‘game designer’. It’s a job with few positions, and a lot of people willing to do it. Thus, it does not pay well, because they can find the next moron ‘following their dream’ easily enough when you get sick of the low pay. Until that changes, the pay will be low.

It’s gotten that way with college degrees, to the point many of them are meaningless. Does the world owe you a comfortable life because you went $200K in debt studying 17th century French literature? Or were you a fool for ‘following your dream’ and studying something that had almost zero career path?

And now your student loan debt is my problem, because you studied something useless, and bought into the mantra chanted by the mind numbed robots - ‘Everyone must go to college! Everyone needs a degree!’ A high school degree is virtually worthless in the USA now. When everyone has a college degree, they will be worthless as well. AS and BS degrees are all but toilet paper now; soon you’ll need a master’s for an entry level job, thanks to the industrial-education complex.


So a giant system was put in place where some groups make billions of dollars in benefits by devaluing the work force of a whole country and systematically empoverising the younger generations... but you put the finger and the blame in those 17-18 years olds that are feed since they are entering middle school "you must go to university to even have a chance of having a decent life" for making bad choices?

You remember to me of my godfather. Always talking crap about those people going to the university! We have too many people going to the university! (Thats why most of them find jobs in France or Germany without a problem and are in demand there). Unlike him. That, in his honor, has been working from 14 years olds... in the family business (Because he didn't wanted to study) that he inherited 40 years ago with a net value of 450k€.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 23:31:40


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 totalfailure wrote:
And now your student loan debt is my problem, because you studied something useless, and bought into the mantra chanted by the mind numbed robots - ‘Everyone must go to college! Everyone needs a degree!’ A high school degree is virtually worthless in the USA now. When everyone has a college degree, they will be worthless as well. AS and BS degrees are all but toilet paper now; soon you’ll need a master’s for an entry level job, thanks to the industrial-education complex.
Citation needed.

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I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




United Kingdom

I just disagree with this idea where "free" means the jungle's law were everything goes.

The "free market" is an illusion.


I agree, with both of those.

However, I cannot agree with all the company bashing. They simply do what we do as individuals - get the most for the best price.

Whilst I also agree that there is not really a truly free market, the forces that drive our wages are basically described by that economics - supply and demand. Just because we know it isn't a proper free market doesn't mean we can just ignore the fundamental drivers of how the worth of our services are dictated. If people think that there is something wrong based on what they see then they should actually make an effort to understand why, and then solve that. Not just thoughtlessly jump on the anti-corporation bandwagon. Forcing companies to pay more than the 'market worth' for services provided (be it labor or whatever) isn't going to solve anything long term, as that isn't the underlying issue. If anything it will probably backfire in some way, as 'solving' the wrong thing is seldom a good idea.

I've had a similar argument elsewhere:

A: of course I should be paid more I have a degree?
Me: A degree in itself means nothing. How many companies want a philosophy post grad vs say computer science?


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 totalfailure wrote:
It’s gotten that way with college degrees, to the point many of them are meaningless. Does the world owe you a comfortable life because you went $200K in debt studying 17th century French literature? Or were you a fool for ‘following your dream’ and studying something that had almost zero career path?


College costs way more than it used to. Historical degrees are incredibly valuable and useful even if there isn't a large corporation specifically looking for historians.

‘Everyone must go to college! Everyone needs a degree!’ A high school degree is virtually worthless in the USA now. When everyone has a college degree, they will be worthless as well. AS and BS degrees are all but toilet paper now; soon you’ll need a master’s for an entry level job, thanks to the industrial-education complex.


A high school degree is worthless, because the skill-less jobs you can do without any degree for high pay are gone. And in the not too distant future most jobs will be gone, so, buckle up. That is if climate change doesn't get us first.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 totalfailure wrote:
I must have missed the briefing where it was said that the world owes you a comfortable living just because you’re following your dream to be a ‘game designer’. It’s a job with few positions, and a lot of people willing to do it. Thus, it does not pay well, because they can find the next moron ‘following their dream’ easily enough when you get sick of the low pay. Until that changes, the pay will be low.

It’s gotten that way with college degrees, to the point many of them are meaningless. Does the world owe you a comfortable life because you went $200K in debt studying 17th century French literature? Or were you a fool for ‘following your dream’ and studying something that had almost zero career path?

And now your student loan debt is my problem, because you studied something useless, and bought into the mantra chanted by the mind numbed robots - ‘Everyone must go to college! Everyone needs a degree!’ A high school degree is virtually worthless in the USA now. When everyone has a college degree, they will be worthless as well. AS and BS degrees are all but toilet paper now; soon you’ll need a master’s for an entry level job, thanks to the industrial-education complex.


Wow, how selfish and ignorant of you.
   
Made in us
Keeper of the Flame





West Lafayette, IN

 Ouze wrote:
I definitely believe without any doubt there are 2 identical factories near each other doing the exact same machine work, and the ones doing it for $11 an hour aren't doing it for $28 an hour solely because they settled and\or have no drive.

These are both union shops with the same union, right?


Or instead of calling me a liar Google machine shops and jobs in Lafayette, IN.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 totalfailure wrote:
I must have missed the briefing where it was said that the world owes you a comfortable living just because


Maybe we didn't have a briefing, but (generally speaking) it doesn't seem too much to ask that some of the wealthiest countries in the world which house some of the wealthiest corporations in the world should compel said corporations to pay a living wage just because it's the right thing to do. The way that we govern ourselves isn't an abstract icon carved of stone we must mold our lives to, it exists to support society and should evolve as needed as society evolves.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Just Tony wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
I definitely believe without any doubt there are 2 identical factories near each other doing the exact same machine work, and the ones doing it for $11 an hour aren't doing it for $28 an hour solely because they settled and\or have no drive.

These are both union shops with the same union, right?


Or instead of calling me a liar Google machine shops and jobs in Lafayette, IN.


It's not really the first part I am super, super dubious on. I'm not disputing that Cat pays much more, I am disputing that it was an apple to apples comparison, and that both jobs are equally available, and it just so happens all the people that work at the one are too stupid or lazy to go next door and make their lives dramatically better. If only everyone at the other shop would put in the minimal effort!

What I am trying to say is that a lot of stuff goes into success, and saying "anyone can do it if they were simply ambitious like me" is just.... simple. Too simple, it's basically a dressed-up "f you, I got mine" bootstraps argument.

I am doing quite well for myself - with overtime, I expect I will just barely break 6 figures this year, or at least get very close to it (I'm an infrastructure engineer at a fortune 100 company, ironically very similar to yours). I didn't get where I am solely because of my ambition or gumption or drive (although those things played a part), but because of other things too:

  • From a young age I happened to be interested in something that turned out to be very in demand when by the time I became an adult, something impossible to have known as a teenager

  • I never got seriously ill, which matters a lot in my country

  • As a straight white-looking man, my country is engineered to tilt things slightly in my favor, or at least when not providing special rights, not singling me out for "special wrongs", and

  • an incredible amount of luck in addition of the other lucky stuff above


  • and I strongly suspect a lot of success stories involved some mix of those factors.


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 01:14:32


     lord_blackfang wrote:
    Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

     Flinty wrote:
    The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
     
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins




    Tacoma, WA, USA

    How much GW pays their employees is interesting and all, but whether they earn £20,000 a year or £100,000 a year, a £5,000 bonus on top of their normal profit sharing is a very generous bonus for a company to give. So why are we arguing about whether GW is a sweat shop or an upstanding corporate citizen when it comes to base pay?
       
    Made in es
    Brutal Black Orc




    Barcelona, Spain

    Because it matters and recontextualizes the bonus from "generous" to "actually needed to meet minimum standards"?
       
    Made in au
    Longtime Dakkanaut





     alextroy wrote:
    How much GW pays their employees is interesting and all, but whether they earn £20,000 a year or £100,000 a year, a £5,000 bonus on top of their normal profit sharing is a very generous bonus for a company to give. So why are we arguing about whether GW is a sweat shop or an upstanding corporate citizen when it comes to base pay?


    meh, a bonus is like billionaire philanthropy - a cheap patch to avoid fixing a systemic problem.
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    United Kingdom

    Maybe we didn't have a briefing, but (generally speaking) it doesn't seem too much to ask that some of the wealthiest countries in the world which house some of the wealthiest corporations in the world should compel said corporations to pay a living wage just because it's the right thing to do.



    In the UK, and that is where GW is based, there are already definitions of what is minimum wage, either as a minimum or 'living'.

    The statutory 'living wage' for an adult full time was, last year, 17,600. The non government organisation that is commonly referenced and a number of companies ascribe to makes it out as 18,700.

    I don't know who people were talking about earlier, some ex employee, and didn't go back trying to find the original post, but it sounds like he was probably paid that or above if I understood the vague gist of time and salary.




    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Trying to out what this ex-employee thing was about, this isn't it I don't think, but from earlier in the thread:

    I turned down £18K for a studio role ten years earlier because even then it wasn't enough to move to Nottingham with my family


    10 years ago (if that what 'earlier' means) also happens to be when the living wage foundation moved to campaigning outside London, and became a more national organisation. Back then it campaigned for a national living wage of slightly over £14,000.

    So whilst £18,000 may not have been enough for someone to move etc, it was considerably above what was considered the living wage of that time. That was also quite a bit higher than what they were campaigning for as the London living wage 10 years ago never mind Nottingham.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 09:58:08


     
       
    Made in gb
    Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






    “The statutory 'living wage' for an adult full time was, last year, 17,600. The non government organisation that is commonly referenced and a number of companies ascribe to makes it out as 18,700.”

    The living wage is simply a level below which you’d be considered to be living in poverty. It’s usually used to demonstrate that the minimum wage isn’t actually enough to live on. It’s hardly something to aspire to. If I was the head of a multi-million pound profit making company and I was only paying the designers who make my products just above the living wage, I’d be ashamed.
       
    Made in gb
    Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





    Teesside

    puree wrote:


    Trying to out what this ex-employee thing was about, this isn't it I don't think, but from earlier in the thread:

    I turned down £18K for a studio role ten years earlier because even then it wasn't enough to move to Nottingham with my family


    10 years ago (if that what 'earlier' means) also happens to be when the living wage foundation moved to campaigning outside London, and became a more national organisation. Back then it campaigned for a national living wage of slightly over £14,000.

    So whilst £18,000 may not have been enough for someone to move etc, it was considerably above what was considered the living wage of that time. That was also quite a bit higher than what they were campaigning for as the London living wage 10 years ago never mind Nottingham.


    The context is, at that point I had 7 years of experience in the tabletop games industry, most of it as a full-time game designer, writer and editor. I'd written several award-winning tabletop games and supplements including working with GW's IP on e.g. The Old World Bestiary (Gold Ennie award winner).

    Yes £18K was higher than the living wage but it wasn't enough to relocate a family of three, and a professional game designer should be *getting more than the bare minimum* anyway.

    My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

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    Made in de
    Booming Thunderer




    Hamburg

    puree wrote:
    Maybe we didn't have a briefing, but (generally speaking) it doesn't seem too much to ask that some of the wealthiest countries in the world which house some of the wealthiest corporations in the world should compel said corporations to pay a living wage just because it's the right thing to do.



    In the UK, and that is where GW is based, there are already definitions of what is minimum wage, either as a minimum or 'living'.

    The statutory 'living wage' for an adult full time was, last year, 17,600. The non government organisation that is commonly referenced and a number of companies ascribe to makes it out as 18,700.

    I don't know who people were talking about earlier, some ex employee, and didn't go back trying to find the original post, but it sounds like he was probably paid that or above if I understood the vague gist of time and salary.


    I would assume paying less would be illegal anyway, but I‘m not based in the UK.

    With this salary discussion, and especially when comparing salaries between eg US and Europe, I think everybody should keep in mind that we all come from different parts of the world and the legal and social ecosystems differ strongly. For example you would not have to pay for health care in UK.

    I think the bigger context is whether we (or in fact GW itself) should be content with the fact (if true) that the person who writes the rulebooks for their games that have been very successful commercially and, in addition to profits from selling the rules also fueled the sales of their corresponding miniatures lines, only gets paid around the bare legal minimum - essentially the same as someone stacking shelves in a supermarket. This does not look as if their contribution was recognized properly, and it surely does not give a good impression of GW as an employer.

    I do like the high-quality look and feel of many GW rulebooks. It‘s really a shame that the rules mechanics and writing in them do not always mirror that first impression (looking at you, Aeronautica; Bloodbowl rulebook is a positive exception imo). Also, the German translations are so wonky that I pretty much stopped buying German-language content from GW altogether.

    In short: GW should focus more on the quality of their rules design and writing, and honor it appropriately to attract and retain the best talent. They can clearly not only afford it, it might even be a comparatively cheap way to enhance their product.
       
    Made in gb
    Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







    In the UK, all taxpayers earning over about £9k pay "national insurance" that goes to various things, including funding the NHS. Its free at point of use, but it is still paid for by taxpayers.


    Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    United Kingdom

    The living wage is simply a level below which you’d be considered to be living in poverty.


    No its not. Poverty is generally measured by household, not individual. Whether such a person is in poverty will depend on their own circumstances. If it is some one on their own they may very well be above poverty level, if they are the sole earner in a large family then they have problems that even a higher wage may not solve. If it is a teen/young adult living with working parents that household is now probably way over poverty level. Given poverty is household based it becomes pointless trying to say an individuals wage is poverty level. People (companies or individuals) pay for services provided, and not some varying amount based on family size etc. I'm not paid more just because I have a family compared to a single person doing the same job.

    Further more, modern western poverty is almost always meaning relative poverty, i.e. relative to the median; which is defined in a way that almost requires that many people live in poverty. As I alluded to earlier the only way around that is a highly authoritarian government, as you need a form of governance which rejects the rights of individuals to seek to better themselves via higher paid work or to pay a 'market rate' to someone else.

    The living wage foundation, who have probably done more to push wages at the lower end than any other group in the UK, define their living wage as "a wage which meets everyday needs - like the weekly shop, or a surprise trip to the dentist." (Quote from their site)

    It is possible the Soviet Union avoided relative poverty, with its very low income spread, but I haven't looked at the stats that came out of there for a long time. But given the economic circumstances of the Soviet Union it is not exactly a place I would hold as a beacon of awesomeness.

    The problem is that no matter what wages are a 'living wage' there will always be those who claim it should be higher, and no matter how some group tries to work out some mechanism for calculating it in practical terms there will always be those who say they've got it wrong.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 13:01:31


     
       
    Made in us
    Stoic Grail Knight




     Ouze wrote:
     totalfailure wrote:
    I must have missed the briefing where it was said that the world owes you a comfortable living just because


    Maybe we didn't have a briefing, but (generally speaking) it doesn't seem too much to ask that some of the wealthiest countries in the world which house some of the wealthiest corporations in the world should compel said corporations to pay a living wage just because it's the right thing to do. The way that we govern ourselves isn't an abstract icon carved of stone we must mold our lives to, it exists to support society and should evolve as needed as society evolves.



    All a 'living wage' does is increase inflation and ultimately make itself pointless.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $1 for 1 widget, you have price equilibrium.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $5 for 2 widgets, you don't have price equilibrium. There's too many people who want widgets and not enough widgets. So the widget supplier is going to raise the price above $5 and see if it still clears out of widgets. If it does, it'll raise the price again and see if it clears out again and so on and on until it reaches a new equilibrium point (i.e. where it can clear 100 widgets at the highest price). If $10/widget sells 90 widgets but $9/widget sells 100 widgets, they'll do $9 so they don't have excess widget inventory.

    When you pay a 'living wage' all you're doing is increasing the amount of people who have $9 to buy a widget. So the widget supplier will raise prices in response and, ta-da, you'll end up back where the same 20 people are buying widgets as before you made a 'living wage'. All the wage increase did was increase the price of widgets (i.e. inflation). This is why you can't just flood more money to people: giving people more cash doesn't increase industrial capacity. If you want more people to get widgets, the way is actually to find a method of producing more widgets not giving more cash for people to bid up the price of widgets currently out there. That takes R&D, discovery of new natural resources and/or capital investment to build new facilities.

    Anyway, good on GW for the bonus. I hope it gives some extra cheer to its employees.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 12:55:13


     
       
    Made in gb
    [DCM]
    Stonecold Gimster






    Audustum wrote:

    All a 'living wage' does is increase inflation and ultimately make itself pointless.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $1 for 1 widget, you have price equilibrium.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $5 for 2 widgets, you don't have price equilibrium. There's too many people who want widgets and not enough widgets. So the widget supplier is going to raise the price above $5 and see if it still clears out of widgets. If it does, it'll raise the price again and see if it clears out again and so on and on until it reaches a new equilibrium point (i.e. where it can clear 100 widgets at the highest price). If $10/widget sells 90 widgets but $9/widget sells 100 widgets, they'll do $9 so they don't have excess widget inventory.

    When you pay a 'living wage' all you're doing is increasing the amount of people who have $9 to buy a widget. So the widget supplier will raise prices in response and, ta-da, you'll end up back where the same 20 people are buying widgets as before you made a 'living wage'. All the wage increase did was increase the price of widgets (i.e. inflation). This is why you can't just flood more money to people: giving people more cash doesn't increase industrial capacity. If you want more people to get widgets, the way is actually to find a method of producing more widgets not giving more cash for people to bid up the price of widgets currently out there. That takes R&D, discovery of new natural resources and/or capital investment to build new facilities.

    Anyway, good on GW for the bonus. I hope it gives some extra cheer to its employees.


    So what this well written example really shows, is that due to the greed of Capitalism, some people will be destined to suffer the one life they get on this world, in poverty. They'll never be able to afford their 'widgets'/food/clothing/basic necessities.

    My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/
    Currently most played: Kill Team 18, Kings of War, Silent Death, Beyond the Gates of Antares, Dracula's America, Bolt Action (inc K47), DzC and X-Wing. Dabbling with 40k again and trying AoS3. 
       
    Made in us
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    I'm going to take a wild guess and say this thread will be locked soon.

    But has anyone else noticed the increased hostility on dakka lately? Not that there hasn't always been fights in the comment section, but recently there are a lot of new accounts just posting negative stuff.
       
    Made in us
    Stoic Grail Knight




     GaroRobe wrote:
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say this thread will be locked soon.

    But has anyone else noticed the increased hostility on dakka lately? Not that there hasn't always been fights in the comment section, but recently there are a lot of new accounts just posting negative stuff.


    I've noticed it's become a very bitter forum.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Gimgamgoo wrote:
    Audustum wrote:

    All a 'living wage' does is increase inflation and ultimately make itself pointless.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $1 for 1 widget, you have price equilibrium.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $5 for 2 widgets, you don't have price equilibrium. There's too many people who want widgets and not enough widgets. So the widget supplier is going to raise the price above $5 and see if it still clears out of widgets. If it does, it'll raise the price again and see if it clears out again and so on and on until it reaches a new equilibrium point (i.e. where it can clear 100 widgets at the highest price). If $10/widget sells 90 widgets but $9/widget sells 100 widgets, they'll do $9 so they don't have excess widget inventory.

    When you pay a 'living wage' all you're doing is increasing the amount of people who have $9 to buy a widget. So the widget supplier will raise prices in response and, ta-da, you'll end up back where the same 20 people are buying widgets as before you made a 'living wage'. All the wage increase did was increase the price of widgets (i.e. inflation). This is why you can't just flood more money to people: giving people more cash doesn't increase industrial capacity. If you want more people to get widgets, the way is actually to find a method of producing more widgets not giving more cash for people to bid up the price of widgets currently out there. That takes R&D, discovery of new natural resources and/or capital investment to build new facilities.

    Anyway, good on GW for the bonus. I hope it gives some extra cheer to its employees.


    So what this well written example really shows, is that due to the greed of Capitalism, some people will be destined to suffer the one life they get on this world, in poverty. They'll never be able to afford their 'widgets'/food/clothing/basic necessities.


    Ideally, you'd want to just keep improving conditions to the point that bottom still equals good. My personal opinion is the incentive structure of many western economies is just thoroughly distorted though.

    None of which matters on the level of one company handing out bonuses though. This is a macro issue. GW giving bonuses is micro and very good for the bonus receivers. Outside of Wall Street I don't know of many American companies that do the same (even though it used to be standard for them, see National Lampoon's Christmas and the Simpsons, it was just understood you'd get a bonus once upon a time).

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 14:48:20


     
       
    Made in gb
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Isn't the reason what GW pay rules writers matters is that it has a direct impact on the quality of the rules they put out?

    At £20k you really are only going to get newbies and once people gain experience, they'll move on. GW's rules systems are, by-and-large, "okay". But they would probably be loads better if they paid rules writers £40k instead of £20k. Because then you'd be recruiting established designers with years of experience. And given how few of those positions there are it feels like a relatively cheap move to massively improve the products.

    I do like GW, I own a lot of GW stuff, but my primary hobby is still board games and it's only in the old stuff like Space Hulk and Blood Bowl they get anywhere near to creating truly great rulesets. Sometimes I do think they're afraid of making a really great game, because then people might actually start getting into GW stuff because of the joy the game itself brings, and it might take the attention away from the models and the painting.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 15:04:03


     
       
    Made in gb
    Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






    deano2099 wrote:
    Isn't the reason what GW pay rules writers matters is that it has a direct impact on the quality of the rules they put out?

    At £20k you really are only going to get newbies and once people gain experience, they'll move on. GW's rules systems are, by-and-large, "okay". But they would probably be loads better if they paid rules writers £40k instead of £20k. Because then you'd be recruiting established designers with years of experience. And given how few of those positions there are it feels like a relatively cheap move to massively improve the products.

    I do like GW, I own a lot of GW stuff, but my primary hobby is still board games and it's only in the old stuff like Space Hulk and Blood Bowl they get anywhere near to creating truly great rulesets. Sometimes I do think they're afraid of making a really great game, because then people might actually start getting into GW stuff because of the joy the game itself brings, and it might take the attention away from the models and the painting.


    I’ll be honest, £40K is closer to the kind of money I thought rules writers would be getting.
       
    Made in us
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    What are other companies paying their rules writers? What are other rules writers at GW paid?

    Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

    I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
    ERJAK wrote:
    ...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
    --Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
       
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    United Kingdom

    So what this well written example really shows, is that due to the greed of Capitalism, some people will be destined to suffer the one life they get on this world, in poverty. They'll never be able to afford their 'widgets'/food/clothing/basic necessities.



    It certainly has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism. Free markets and inflation are not the same as capitalism. Inflation has devastated nations long before the advent of capitalism. It is a simple concept that when there is more demand for something than there is supply the price will go up, because there is no other fair way of choosing who should get something. Everyone will of course claim some subjective 'need', but ultimately the owner of some resource, be it a piece of furniture you made or a 2nd hand object, or some natural resource can't be the judge of random people's need - they barter for what they want; and now a days that tends to be money.

    I know someone who made collectible toys as a past time, and became quite popular. At which point she couldn't keep up with demand and became very stressed. Her partner used to go mad she that she wouldn't increase the price - because that would then reduce the demand to a point that she could cope. She would be better financially and less stressed. The price she sold at was an arbitrary price that had no link to reality. The market price is where the price would be too much for many and only leave those who wished to pay at a level where she could meet that demand. There is a clear and objective value to that product, and it is totally governed by supply and demand. It changes over time sure, and we may not know what it is at any moment in time, but the concept is pretty simple.

    Wages etc are exactly the same. Capitalism is irrelevant. Given time, more money in people pocket fuels demand, more demand boosts inflation. Higher costs for employers over time causes them to increase prices to be more profitable, because like you they want the best for themselves as well.

    In a liberal free society those who don't like that have a simple remedy, and it isn't demanding that others do stuff. They can go out and set up their own companies, or cooperatives etc and run them exactly as they think is right. If there are so many people who want to see higher pay then just go do it. I have a couple of family members who have run their own business, I know it ain't easy, but if they have the drive to do it then surely amongst the mass of people who don't like current wages their is some who have enough drive to actually go do it as well, pay what you think someone's worth rather than what the 'market' thinks?
       
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    Lake County, Illinois

     GaroRobe wrote:
    I'm going to take a wild guess and say this thread will be locked soon.

    But has anyone else noticed the increased hostility on dakka lately? Not that there hasn't always been fights in the comment section, but recently there are a lot of new accounts just posting negative stuff.


    It's not just new accounts. Dakka is a very bitter place, it seems like. However, once I started putting some of the worst offenders on ignore, it got much better. And these aren't new accounts, they're long time regulars. And I resisted doing it for a long time, because I hate putting anyone on ignore on any forum. But the place just isn't enjoyable if I have to read their posts, so why read them? Do yourself a favor and ignore a few of the worst offenders, and it will seem like a much better place.
       
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    Audustum wrote:
    All a 'living wage' does is increase inflation and ultimately make itself pointless.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $1 for 1 widget, you have price equilibrium.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $5 for 2 widgets, you don't have price equilibrium. There's too many people who want widgets and not enough widgets. So the widget supplier is going to raise the price above $5 and see if it still clears out of widgets. If it does, it'll raise the price again and see if it clears out again and so on and on until it reaches a new equilibrium point (i.e. where it can clear 100 widgets at the highest price). If $10/widget sells 90 widgets but $9/widget sells 100 widgets, they'll do $9 so they don't have excess widget inventory.

    When you pay a 'living wage' all you're doing is increasing the amount of people who have $9 to buy a widget. So the widget supplier will raise prices in response and, ta-da, you'll end up back where the same 20 people are buying widgets as before you made a 'living wage'. All the wage increase did was increase the price of widgets (i.e. inflation). This is why you can't just flood more money to people: giving people more cash doesn't increase industrial capacity. If you want more people to get widgets, the way is actually to find a method of producing more widgets not giving more cash for people to bid up the price of widgets currently out there. That takes R&D, discovery of new natural resources and/or capital investment to build new facilities.


    Come to America where you can pay the same for a Big Mac where ever you go, but in my state the minimum wage is $12 while in other states the minimum is $7.15. But the Big Mac stays the same price no matter what. Weird, right?

    And then my state has a lower cost of living that most others despite having a higher minimum.

    We're not talking about people getting paid enough to out strip scarcity items. We're talking baout them not having to choose between food and rent.

       
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    Lake County, Illinois

    That is patently false. A big mac does not cost the same everywhere in America. And a large part of why it can be almost double in some places as in other is labor cost.
       
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    Stoic Grail Knight




     Daedalus81 wrote:
    Audustum wrote:
    All a 'living wage' does is increase inflation and ultimately make itself pointless.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $1 for 1 widget, you have price equilibrium.

    If the economy has 100 widgets and 100 people willing to pay $5 for 2 widgets, you don't have price equilibrium. There's too many people who want widgets and not enough widgets. So the widget supplier is going to raise the price above $5 and see if it still clears out of widgets. If it does, it'll raise the price again and see if it clears out again and so on and on until it reaches a new equilibrium point (i.e. where it can clear 100 widgets at the highest price). If $10/widget sells 90 widgets but $9/widget sells 100 widgets, they'll do $9 so they don't have excess widget inventory (like GW giving a bonus while most of the rest of the U.K. doesn't, to bring this a bit to the thread topic).

    When you pay a 'living wage' all you're doing is increasing the amount of people who have $9 to buy a widget. So the widget supplier will raise prices in response and, ta-da, you'll end up back where the same 20 people are buying widgets as before you made a 'living wage'. All the wage increase did was increase the price of widgets (i.e. inflation). This is why you can't just flood more money to people: giving people more cash doesn't increase industrial capacity. If you want more people to get widgets, the way is actually to find a method of producing more widgets not giving more cash for people to bid up the price of widgets currently out there. That takes R&D, discovery of new natural resources and/or capital investment to build new facilities.


    Come to America where you can pay the same for a Big Mac where ever you go, but in my state the minimum wage is $12 while in other states the minimum is $7.15. But the Big Mac stays the same price no matter what. Weird, right?

    And then my state has a lower cost of living that most others despite having a higher minimum.

    We're not talking about people getting paid enough to out strip scarcity items. We're talking baout them not having to choose between food and rent.


    A couple points.

    1. Many states are small enough that simply increasing their minimum wage won't fall into this trap because there is still so much of America that is not subject to that rule. In essence, the higher minimum wage state is piggy-backing off of the lower minimum wage states (mandating that its people are the $9/widget people and the others are not through fiat). This would only disguise it on a macro level. Inflation might still exist on a micro level.

    2. Since you mentioned Big Mac's, there's actually a project that's been running for over 30 years called the Big Mac Index. It uses Big Macs to keep track of currency valuations and you may find it interesting: ( https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index ).

    3. As noted, Big Macs don't actually cost the same in every state. A value meal in CA is around $7 I think (but that was 9 years ago) while in Missouri it's about $5 (also 9 years ago). Since McDonalds is rich enough it could standardize prices for convenience and just eat any regional loss, it's probably better to look at something as universal but not as centrally controlled: like the price of milk, which also fluctuates.

    4. Unfortunately, rent is no exception. If you raise minimum wage, more people will be able to afford new or better housing, which means landlords will raise rental rates because we haven't actually made any new housing for these people. People in rentals will want better rentals, people without rentals will want rentals and the net result is they'll bid themselves up just like with widgets and you end up back at square one.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 20:06:17


     
       
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    Sure. It's a multi-factor problem including issues with gentrification, nimby, and so forth, which basically comes down to the people with money and power causing issues for people without.

       
     
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