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Catulle wrote:

Voss wrote:

Catulle wrote:
I'm unsure where the message that they're going to stop putting points changes into the Codex errata is, though I've only really skimmed. Any help?

The first season introduces a new Grand Tournament Mission pack, which provides the framework for the next six months of competitive play. There will be new missions, new secondary objectives, and updated points costs for the armies in Warhammer 40,000.

They've got the Munitorium points values book hiding behind the GT missions pack as well.

That hasn't stopped the errata remaining updated before, has it? (Genuine question, my history is chiefly BattleScribe and a print of the current errata inside my hardcopy)

Errata has nothing to do with point changes.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Catulle wrote:

Voss wrote:

Catulle wrote:
I'm unsure where the message that they're going to stop putting points changes into the Codex errata is, though I've only really skimmed. Any help?

The first season introduces a new Grand Tournament Mission pack, which provides the framework for the next six months of competitive play. There will be new missions, new secondary objectives, and updated points costs for the armies in Warhammer 40,000.

They've got the Munitorium points values book hiding behind the GT missions pack as well.

That hasn't stopped the errata remaining updated before, has it? (Genuine question, my history is chiefly BattleScribe and a print of the current errata inside my hardcopy)

Errata has nothing to do with point changes.

...the section header is "Updates and Errata" and contains points changes?

Sometimes they stick random point changes in, yes.

But since 8th, the comprehensive point changes for everyone (except the most recent books) have largely been these little books (lately bundled behind the mission packs)

Though they once did an entire online pdf of point changes screwed up several factions and redid it a month latter. For whatever reason, people remember that one.

Interesting how this is a cool change for crusade gamers and a total extortion racket for matched play gamers.
If you are playing crusade, you read the reviews of the new books and if their content is cool, you buy them, otherwise you don't.
If you are playing matched play, buy the book or go play another game.

Makes me glad that my group moved to the "right" game mode.

I'm just wondering how long they are going to keep up with the narrative books before they run out of steam. Eventually you just don't need more missions, game modes or more fancy rules to staple onto your campaign.

Tyel wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Serious question:

Do you think the infrastructure setup to do a digital-only rules set is free?

I wouldn't say free - but the cost of putting some PDFs on your website that people can download is very low. Far lower than printing and then shipping books for shops all over the globe.

Which they would still have to do so a) gw saves nothing b) you don't get digital books any faster as they would come same time. Gw wonjt dilute first week sales by splitting times. Costs money.

Well, when a company produces a defective product, yes they are required to provide the fix at no cost to consumers.

So if armies, and units are so imbalanced that they need to change the points and or rules, then yes it should be free.

Gw should be happy the fix is cheap.

Sweet. Now every new codex can have day one DLC too!

 spaceelf wrote:
Well, when a company produces a defective product, yes they are required to provide the fix at no cost to consumers.

So if armies, and units are so imbalanced that they need to change the points and or rules, then yes it should be free.

Gw should be happy the fix is cheap.

Define defective. They come with points and are usable without changes indefinitely in most cases. You're asking for a refinement of the functional product, which there is no obligation to provide for free, even if doing so is easy and makes sense.

Interestingly the points changes are free in the app, even for non-subscribers, as long as the codex is registered.

Holy Cow.

I stopped playing 40k during 7th because of how much of a convoluted mess their rules (diffusion) became... The start of 8th was a momentarily breath of fresh air with a tight ruleset...

And now, only a few years later, things seem to be as bad, if not worse than it ever was during 7th.


I don't go around spamming these forums with negative things to say about 40k or GW generally though. I just stopped buying (or hell, even playing) their stuff for the last half a year...

And the way they are continuing to push ever more expensive books on top of digital subscriptions (for half their rules btw), gives me absolutely zero incentive to change my purchasing habbits.

 Platuan4th wrote:
GW seeing what works for other more tournament focused game systems/companies and once again completely failing to understand WHY it works for those.

But people love $10 videogame battlepasses? Why wouldn't they love spending $100 on books and building models a certain way for a certain campaign...that will all be totally invalidated in 6 months? Only a crazy person wouldn't be lined up outside Warhammer to preorder that!

So they want to do a twice yearly update... yet they struggle to maintain any rules/errata schedule they have made for darn near any system they produce? What can go wrong.

 Toofast wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
GW seeing what works for other more tournament focused game systems/companies and once again completely failing to understand WHY it works for those.

But people love $10 videogame battlepasses? Why wouldn't they love spending $100 on books and building models a certain way for a certain campaign...that will all be totally invalidated in 6 months? Only a crazy person wouldn't be lined up outside Warhammer to preorder that!

Yeah, a video game costs ~$30-60. Companies put out those $10 battlepasses, people moan and pay anyways. M:tG costs... $X to get into, it really depends. But on the low end, you could buy a commander deck for $30. Yeah, if you do standard, then you have the "battlepass"-like effect of rotating cards, but that's optional. On the top end, MtG can be as expensive as 40k but I would say if you compare the median 40k player with the median Magic player, the median Magic player is spending more.

...then, 40k. Barrier of entry is an order of magnitude higher for 40k than it is for Magic (you could argue KT is cheap enough, but a) you need to get all the rules, and b) it's a totally different game from 40k proper in a way that EDH/draft/Pauper are not versus "regular magic"). You get rules that haven't been playtested, and now GW is just formalizing the fact that you have to pay extra to get them fixed!

I try not to whinge so much about GW on Dakka, I know there's enough of it. But this really is so stupid and tone deaf. It is incredible how successful GW is in spite of itself. That melange of IP really is worth way more than its weight in gold...

 spaceelf wrote:
Well, when a company produces a defective product, yes they are required to provide the fix at no cost to consumers.

So if armies, and units are so imbalanced that they need to change the points and or rules, then yes it should be free.

Gw should be happy the fix is cheap.

A great example of twisting something to fit your point of view. An imbalanced unit/army is not defective in fact some might argue it is the opposite it is effective (very effective!) and balance is subjective in most cases. I wonder what people WOULD pay for?I mean all i hear is people demanding stuff should be free!

They can churn out books like crazy........except for the codexes armies desperately need. I literally don't understand the point of things like the cadian rules update in one of the recent warzone books when imperial guard don't have their own book. What about the other thousands of guard players that don't play cadian? Tough luck bud, play another army?

Practically everyone I know plays something else or just does the painting because man whoever is in charge of 40k just does not know how to make games. Gotta give props to Phil Kelly for not having this nonsense in Age of Sigmar.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The worst part is the continued bifurcation of rules with the separate Campaign and Crusade book.

The Crusade books are mostly reprints of the 40k rules. There's no justification for their existence as separate products beyond GW wanting to sell yet another bit of DLC.

Every new rule (Crusade, missions, etc.) should be put into the main Campaign book.

I have no idea why this content justifies two separate books other than "GW likes money"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fergie0044 wrote:
Please don't turn out to be some video game style battle pass...

No, this is much, much worse. Video game battlepasses are $10-20 and your skins are still useful after the fact. I still use Dota cosmetics from the 2017 battlepass. These books will run you $100+. You think you'll be able to get a group together to play this campaign 5 years from now? You'll be lucky if it's even remotely compatible with the basic rules of the game by then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Why does GW change direction every year. Like, don't they have a 5-year plan or something? Is not like I'm agaisnt this ideas but it looks like each 1-2 years they are completely changing how they make things. How many FAQs they do, how they do balance patches, the format of chapter approved, etc...

GW board is like the imaginary commander giving you maelstrom missions on the radio.

 Don Savik wrote:

Practically everyone I know plays something else or just does the painting because man whoever is in charge of 40k just does not know how to make games. Gotta give props to Phil Kelly for not having this nonsense in Age of Sigmar.

Are you sure??? Remember this year AoS players lost free digital warscrolls. So I wouldnt be so confident that this wont be crawling into AoS aswell.

All rules are free if you know where to look.

 Gert wrote:
Which then locks out people who don't like using apps from playing the game.
I don't have a horse in the race of balance patches or whatever else but GW switching to a digital-only ruleset would be a serious misstep.

I have literally never heard a single person say that they should go only digital and never print another book. We just want them to upload the same file they send to the printer anyway to their webstore so we have it as an OPTION, and then pay an intern with a basic knowledge of computers to update it when the FAQ comes out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Which then locks out people who don't like using apps from playing the game.
I don't have a horse in the race of balance patches or whatever else but GW switching to a digital-only ruleset would be a serious misstep.

Well they could sell paper copies as well - but paper will always cost money.

Serious question:

Do you think the infrastructure setup to do a digital-only rules set is free?

They already have the infrastructure. How do you think you get digital access to the rules by inputting a code from your codex?

Did GW not advertise for a copy editor, or a proof reader or something recently?

 Toofast wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Which then locks out people who don't like using apps from playing the game.
I don't have a horse in the race of balance patches or whatever else but GW switching to a digital-only ruleset would be a serious misstep.

I have literally never heard a single person say that they should go only digital and never print another book.

They should go only digital and never print another book. No, seriously.

A rapidly changing set of rules has no business being printed on paper.

And for those who desperately want their book? Even today there are service providers where you can upload a PDF and you get a freshly printed book sent to your home for less than what any of GW's books are today.

 Toofast wrote:


I have literally never heard a single person say that they should go only digital and never print another book. We just want them to upload the same file they send to the printer anyway to their webstore so we have it as an OPTION, and then pay an intern with a basic knowledge of computers to update it when the FAQ comes out.

And to build on this -- GW should release new rules when the digital rules are ready, not when all the books have made their way to all the locales. Hell, that point is kind of moot anyways because with the supply chain crunch, at least half the time, I can't get the books at my LGS anyways. But in any case, you don't have to box out the physical-only people, but you shouldn't hamstring the game for them either.

 Jidmah wrote:
Interesting how this is a cool change for crusade gamers and a total extortion racket for matched play gamers.
If you are playing crusade, you read the reviews of the new books and if their content is cool, you buy them, otherwise you don't.
If you are playing matched play, buy the book or go play another game.

Makes me glad that my group moved to the "right" game mode.

I'm just wondering how long they are going to keep up with the narrative books before they run out of steam. Eventually you just don't need more missions, game modes or more fancy rules to staple onto your campaign.

Pictured that way it's a way for GW to extract a fee from all the non-GW tournament players: Do you want your latest point values for Alaskacon? Pay us!!!!!!11111 (twirls mustache)

M.

 zend wrote:
Color me spoiled, I now get free books from GW more often than ever.

Thanks GW!

Yar matey, them freebooter orks do the emperors blessed subjects a good service. Some of the odd books I've wanted ( mostly oop ) are nice to have in simple pdf on my pc.

GW really want their playerbase to start playing AoS, until they start doing the same to them.

Wish to be a LotR player right now.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
All rules are free if you know where to look.

We might need to start an appropriate thread then

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
All rules are free if you know where to look.

We might need to start an appropriate thread then

The Mods (rightfully) have a 'no piracy' rule.

 Toofast wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Which then locks out people who don't like using apps from playing the game.
I don't have a horse in the race of balance patches or whatever else but GW switching to a digital-only ruleset would be a serious misstep.

I have literally never heard a single person say that they should go only digital and never print another book. We just want them to upload the same file they send to the printer anyway to their webstore so we have it as an OPTION, and then pay an intern with a basic knowledge of computers to update it when the FAQ comes out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Which then locks out people who don't like using apps from playing the game.
I don't have a horse in the race of balance patches or whatever else but GW switching to a digital-only ruleset would be a serious misstep.

Well they could sell paper copies as well - but paper will always cost money.

Serious question:

Do you think the infrastructure setup to do a digital-only rules set is free?

They already have the infrastructure. How do you think you get digital access to the rules by inputting a code from your codex?

Not even that. They _did do_ digital 40k rules. For years. They _still do_ digital rules for other systems (and some old 40k stuff even lingers on).
GW store: search: ePub
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=1562822537378168223&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=ePub

Oh, look, 84 digital rulebooks still published and sold by GW. This is a thing they could easily do, they've just specifically, deliberately chosen not to.
Any setup costs are long done and paid for, over a decade ago, if not more.

Paying $50 CAD every six months for a rules update and mission refresh is OK as long as they ****ing ring-bound the book like the first GT2020 Mission Pack. That book made sense. Additionally, incorporate the FAQs etc into the rules included and I will send a tip.

When I first starting reading the thread I thought I would have to buy Crusade rules as part of the whole package. Phew! The GT 2020 and GT 2021 books sold out here, while you could make a fort out of the unsold Crusade books (and Campaign books) at my FLGS.

To be honest, spending $100 CAD annually to have things refreshed is fine as long as we don't have another Psychic Awakening...

At this point I don't understand how people getting into this game can even come close to digesting the rules, the lore, and the current meta in order to build paint and field an army.

This is potentially a good idea, if it was a once a year thing that lasted for four months. As of now, it just blatently appears to me to be a short sighted way to get more money out of your players while rapidly burning them out.

This is not sustainable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Which then locks out people who don't like using apps from playing the game.
I don't have a horse in the race of balance patches or whatever else but GW switching to a digital-only ruleset would be a serious misstep.

I have literally never heard a single person say that they should go only digital and never print another book.

They should go only digital and never print another book. No, seriously.

A rapidly changing set of rules has no business being printed on paper.

And for those who desperately want their book? Even today there are service providers where you can upload a PDF and you get a freshly printed book sent to your home for less than what any of GW's books are today.

As someone who prefers printed products, at this point these books aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. Just create a living ruleset on phones and tablets...

 CMLR wrote:
GW really want their playerbase to start playing AoS, until they start doing the same to them.

Wish to be a LotR player right now.

The $ per page of standard rules for LotR is pretty high, each book only gives you a handful of pages you can use in regular/pick-up/tournament games (or probably more accurately, it's been declining over the course of time.