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Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in nz
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



New Zealand

Niiai, a single 4+ to hit is 50%, but the more rolls you have the more it groups to the average. For example, the chances of rolling at least one hit from 2 dice is 75% and at least one hit on 3 dice is 87.5%.
Now working out the probability of getting at least 5 hits from 10 or 20 rolls is bit beyond me right now, but the chances of having 16 fails from 20 attempts would be a lot smaller than 25%. Doing it manually is a matter of working out the number of possible combinations, and then the number of combinations that qualify.
The automatic hits are easier, because there are less of them... so there is a 16% chance of each result on a single D6 (so one flamer will give you 5+ hits one third of the time), and actually the chance of rolling less than 5 on 2D6 is also 16%.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Assuming Rapid Fire...

2 Flamers, 8 Autoguns: 99.99% chance
1 Flamer, 9 Autoguns: 99.92% chance
0 Flamers, 10 Autoguns: 99.41% chance

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

10 autoguns is 99,41% chance? I got to read up on my probability.

   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





 Niiai wrote:
10 autoguns is 99,41% chance? I got to read up on my probability.


Odds of rolling 16 1-3 from 20 dice is pretty low.

6 dice fishing for 1+ 6=70% or so odds.


2022 painted/bought: 227/322 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The odds of 20 BS4+ shots causing no hits is 1/2^20. Which is about 1 in a million.
The odds of 1 hit is 1/2^20*20. Which is... 20 times better - but still very low.
The odds of 2 hits is 1/2^20*190.
The odds of 3 hits is 1/2^20*1140
The odds of 4 hits is 1/2^20*4845.

Put another way - of all the 1048576 outcomes, 6196 result in you not getting 5 or more hits. Which means you have a 99.41% chance to do it.
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






So, I’m assuming the mining laser is still the best weapon option for the ridgerunners?
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




The rockets are really good at anti-Elite (value drops slightly if proliferation of -1D continues). You just need a true anti-tank solution in your army, and preferably not only melee. Which only leaves three options. And I think the Ridgerunner is quite a bit better than the Rockgrinder with Heavy Seismic. Neophytes are cool too, obviously.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/13 16:40:30


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, I’m assuming the mining laser is still the best weapon option for the ridgerunners?
d3 shots doing d6 damage is simply to unreliable.
a constant 3 shots with 3 damage is slightly less but much more consistent. Which is what, imo, matters in the long run.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 Ordana wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, I’m assuming the mining laser is still the best weapon option for the ridgerunners?
d3 shots doing d6 damage is simply to unreliable.
a constant 3 shots with 3 damage is slightly less but much more consistent. Which is what, imo, matters in the long run.
I mean...

2 shots at d6 damage is 7 damage on average, if everything hits/wounds/fails saves.
3 shots at 3 damage is 9, under the same circumstances.

Sure, d3 at Dd6 can spike to 18 damage, but it can also whiff more easily, as you allude to in the quoted post.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

The ridgerunners where soe of the best things in the 8th edition codex that stood the tooth of time. One thing that made them stand out was getting BS+ bonus from the alphus and the stratagem. Overload mining weapons on one unit for +1 to the samage roll you often hit on 3+ and wounded on 2+ witch was good. Even with 1d3 shots and 1d6 damage.

The second thing that was good was the raking fire stratagem that gave you +1 to hit and +1 to wound.

A lot of that juice is replaced by the crossfire keyword. So asuming you can trigger it turn 2 and 3 with deepstrike a lot of other units can benefit from the juice that the ridgerunners had.

Rocket launcher ridgerunners with 3 D3 shots or just amazing, but is kept back with S6. A good comparison could be the goliath rockgrinder shortrange seismic cannon.

Anyway, mad rambeling and conparisons aside I think the overload mining weapons stratagem is stil good on ridgerunners in a big group. 1d6+1 damage is quite good. Getting 1 ekstra point of T and the crossfire keyword for 5 points is a good upgrade.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Reckon there's a chance they could FAQ the Mortar to have 3D6 shots?

Maybe that would be a bit good in the context of Crossfire. But 1D6 is a joke.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Tyel wrote:
Reckon there's a chance they could FAQ the Mortar to have 3D6 shots?

Maybe that would be a bit good in the context of Crossfire. But 1D6 is a joke.
No, they don't faq weapons to be better.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Ordana wrote:
No, they don't faq weapons to be better.


Well yes, it wasn't that serious.

It just seems weird the mortar is so obviously terrible.

I think the missile is probably fractionally better for less randomness and reliable 3 damage into elite infantry. The laser is better versus T7+ - but as you point out, so much can go wrong (and statistically, it will.)
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ordana wrote:
Tyel wrote:
Reckon there's a chance they could FAQ the Mortar to have 3D6 shots?

Maybe that would be a bit good in the context of Crossfire. But 1D6 is a joke.
No, they don't faq weapons to be better.


Except for that time at the start of 9th edition when they did (unless you're niggling on the use of FAQ when he clearly meant errata in which case of course not.)
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Are we limited in the amount of bonus abilities we can buy for our units. Like can I buy more than 1 excavation and bury my opponents in no cover difficult terrain?
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





dreadlybrew wrote:
Are we limited in the amount of bonus abilities we can buy for our units. Like can I buy more than 1 excavation and bury my opponents in no cover difficult terrain?
each upgrade can only be taken once and a unit cannot have more then 1 upgrade.
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




Somerdale, NJ, USA

I'm so happy that Patriarchs and Purestrains get <Cult> now...that really ground my gears in the previous codex.

"The only problem with your genepool is that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty to prevent you from swimming."

"You either die a Morty, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Rick."

- 8k /// - 5k /// - 5k /// - 6k /// - 6k /// - 4k /// - 4k 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Ridge runners that get to fall back and shoot in hivecult is da bomb
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Ironically, if you have rocket ridge runners you can fire them all in melee. I guess they are krak based and not frag. :-)

   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






Can you still take Tyranid units with GSC? Because that would be cool.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Yes. You can take both, although you loose crossfire. Bar 25% Brood brothers, then you do not loose it.

This is all fine and dandy though. Most GSC adds to tyranids are not shooting based. (A magus for spells. Some acolytes for secindaries. Do the CP regen relic work for nids? Although leviatans already have it.)

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





The CP relic would work but you can't get GSC relics unless you have a GSC warlord. Not even with the extra relic strat.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Got a chance to try out the codex. It's really easy to lose sight of your turn goals when juggling crossfire placement, on two separate occasions I needed to set one to turn off overwatch fire from a dangerous unit I was charging and mucked it up both times because I tunnel-visioned on what I wanted to accomplish in the shooting phase.

- Cranial Inlay Nexos and Exacting Planner Primus completely change how the army plays. It's pretty much a mandatory combination, dropping a RR1 to hit on Core and RR1 to wound on <Cult> anywhere on the board just gives you so much flexibility.
- I'm endorsing the Biophagus for anyone who is running Acolytes in squads larger than 5. All 3 buffs are appreciated on them so the random roll doesn't impact much. If you're running Twisted Helix I'd say he's mandatory, as he unlocks the potential of one of the two best relics to have on your Patriarch, and again Acolytes love his buffs and even more so when they're S5.
- I'm not sold on the Jackal Alphus outside of a mechanized-focused list. She needs a dedicated shooting unit that's on the board from the start of the turn.
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





I'm throwing together a horde list with 120 neophytes with a total of 24 grenade launchers 24 seismic cannons and 2 icon wards.

The second detachment is a patrol for the second icon ward runs 3 5 man flamer acolytes for exposed, crossfire, and rods. Multiple Iconwards means 3x the regen.

Do I do hivecult for actions fall back and charge, pauper princes for the 5+ invuln or rusted claw for more advance and shoot? I still have 60ish points left for planning

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 04:29:14


 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

That is a good question.

First can I ask how on earth you have 24 seismic cannons? Also, someone on goonhammer pointed out that with the expose tokens the value of the grenade launcher as a weapon goes up much hier.

The pauper prince's is the 'default one' for neophyte spam. I think the aura increase works with the relic, so you have a 9" bubble with 5++. Good for 20 man squad of Neophytes.

My only consern is that you blob so big that rusted claws advance and shoot as stationary is better. (Meaning you hit on 4 and 3 instead of 5 and 4 on those seismic cannons. Who seem to be the start of the show.) You also short up the 24" range, wit h is not that long VS a gun line with anti infantery blast. You can also consider a custom cult with that very trait. Mini transhuman could be good on them.

If you have 60 points left (I do not know your list) Primus (multiple?) seems good. Nexos seems mandatory. Jackal and or Sanctus to put down tokens. Even the good doctor for 55 can give on if your Neophytes 5++. (Although he gets a 1 in 3 chance to mess things up after that.)

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Madjob wrote:
Got a chance to try out the codex. It's really easy to lose sight of your turn goals when juggling crossfire placement, on two separate occasions I needed to set one to turn off overwatch fire from a dangerous unit I was charging and mucked it up both times because I tunnel-visioned on what I wanted to accomplish in the shooting phase.

- Cranial Inlay Nexos and Exacting Planner Primus completely change how the army plays. It's pretty much a mandatory combination, dropping a RR1 to hit on Core and RR1 to wound on <Cult> anywhere on the board just gives you so much flexibility.
- I'm endorsing the Biophagus for anyone who is running Acolytes in squads larger than 5. All 3 buffs are appreciated on them so the random roll doesn't impact much. If you're running Twisted Helix I'd say he's mandatory, as he unlocks the potential of one of the two best relics to have on your Patriarch, and again Acolytes love his buffs and even more so when they're S5.
- I'm not sold on the Jackal Alphus outside of a mechanized-focused list. She needs a dedicated shooting unit that's on the board from the start of the turn.
A Mechanized focused list is ironically the place where an Alphus does not work. She can't buff RR's. She can't buff Neophytes in trucks. She just buffs Jackals and I don't think those need to be buffed when their use in a mechanised list is driving into the heart of the enemy to give Exposed to RR's and Rockgrinders.

The one unit an Alphus is good for is a footslogging Neophyte squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dreadlybrew wrote:
I'm throwing together a horde list with 120 neophytes with a total of 24 grenade launchers 24 seismic cannons and 2 icon wards.

The second detachment is a patrol for the second icon ward runs 3 5 man flamer acolytes for exposed, crossfire, and rods. Multiple Iconwards means 3x the regen.

Do I do hivecult for actions fall back and charge, pauper princes for the 5+ invuln or rusted claw for more advance and shoot? I still have 60ish points left for planning
I think you need PP for the 5++. Without it 20 neophytes will not survive long enough, there is so much AP -1/2 in the game.

(also remember that while you can Summon the Cult multiple times your capped at 6 models in total for Neophytes.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 11:09:55


 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





6 units of 20 with 4 each is 24, i have a healthy dose of allowing myself to proxy weapons. Models made is 12/12 mining lasers and siesemic cannons. But you can make little seismic cannon adding bits to make the mining lasers have the extra prongs to make them look like seismic cannons.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And rusted claw doesn't really need to fear ap 1 and 2 when moving from cover to cover

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 17:09:08


 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




I've played a handful of games now with the new book and I am having a hell of a hard time figuring out how to get exposed to work. Small suicide units seem to be the obvious choice but the issue I run into is that if I don't drop them in turn 1 or 2 that I do not have the target saturation to keep anything on the board alive, but if I drop them in turns 1 or 2 they have very little room to be placed in advantageous positions.

More and more as I play I just stop worrying about exposed and focus on the crossfire tokens as they are much easier to get and use. Heavy Clearance Incinerator Rockgrinders are amazing to ensure that I will get those crossfire tokens and when combined with Jackals I find it easier to get exposed, but it is always a suicide trade. I play Rusted Claw mostly and even with the bonus to armor saves everything in the army is so damn squishy.

I did play a 8 man squad of Aberrants with a Biophagus for the 5+++ and I have to say that I am impressed at how much they could tank. 3W with -1D is this magic combination that means D2 weapons are wasted on them and D3 weapons are wasted due to requiring two wounds to kill one body.

Neophytes are interesting in 20 man blobs with an icon. They have a lot of staying power purely by virtue of recoverable wounds, plus you can take your special weapons last meaning that you have a lot of ablative wounds to keep them useful late in the game.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm learning to stop caring about trying for exposed. It's nice when its there but after someone plays against GSC just once or twice you'll be hard pressed to get it off again.

I play similarly to 8th and use the stratagems/nexos to get off my crossfire reliably. If someones dumb enough to leave me able to jump behind them, great... if not, and likely not, then I'll just take the +1 to hit.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

I have no good baseline to consider how to get exsporue. But during 9th edition I have certanly been many places on the board. I had great suckess with handflamers dropping in and deal damage. But perhaps cossfire token boosting us to a Bs3+ army for the most part is enough.

The deepstrike within 3" upgrade also make itmcuh easier. Perhaps you could do a long bike saussage?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/17 23:57:40


   
 
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