IG/Astra Militarum Rumours for April (first post updated 12th April)

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**insaniak**

Brother SRM wrote:
10 marines do fit in a Rhino (albeit very tightly) if they're not on bases.

They really don't. I have a half-built cutaway rhino that I started for a painting comp a few years back and had to abandon when it became evident that it wouldn't work. The interior of the current rhino is just too short.

There was a blog article years ago that showed 10 marines mdelled into an old-style rhino, but it was done using Landspeeder crew with no backpacks.

**Compel**

I still think you can get a decent whack of them in, as in, more than half.

As opposed to that truck, where you'd be lucky to get 2 in.

**AllSeeingSkink**

If you removed the giant arse shoulder pads they probably could, lol.

**insaniak**

Compel wrote:
I still think you can get a decent whack of them in, as in, more than half.

Sure, but they have to be lying down.

Even sitting doesn't work, due to the backpack.

As opposed to that truck, where ...

...we still have no actual indication of scale. Everyone is just assuming that's a human-sized door on the side.

But then, it's also just an assumption that the Taurox is anything whatsoever to do with Ogryn in the first place.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I wonder if the original Space Marine models could fit in the original Rhino and the Space Marines (particularly the shoulder pads) have grown more than the Rhino.

**plastictrees**

insaniak wrote:
Compel wrote:
I still think you can get a decent whack of them in, as in, more than half.

Sure, but they have to be lying down.

Even sitting doesn't work, due to the backpack.

As opposed to that truck, where ...

...we still have no actual indication of scale. Everyone is just assuming that's a human-sized door on the side.

But then, it's also just an assumption that the Taurox is anything whatsoever to do with Ogryn in the first place.

As I've mentioned, the top hatch is probably a decent indicator. Unless it's also driven by an Ogryn...

**generalchaos34**

Now i know its hearsay but i did hear part of the Astra Militariumiumum issue was because Star Wars was flexing its own IP muscles back at GW, which, despite the loss of one of my fav names for Warhammer, would be worth it if it was true to see GW crushed by the actual big fish of entertainment (queue image of titan sized Mickey stomping on thousands of guardsman and shouting blood for the mouse god!)

**Theophony**

The hammer on the side seams to be the same as the baneblade kit, and so do the headlights.

As for Ogryn transport, maybe the alternate build is open top sothey don't get clausterphobic. Then this really could be turned into an old farm truck with some wheels.

**insaniak**

Theophony wrote:
As for Ogryn transport, maybe the alternate build is open top sothey don't get clausterphobic. Then this really could be turned into an old farm truck with some wheels.

Given the old fluff about Ogryns not liking transports for just that reason, that would certainly make sense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

generalchaos34 wrote:
Now i know its hearsay but i did hear part of the Astra Militariumiumum issue was because Star Wars was flexing its own IP muscles back at GW, which, despite the loss of one of my fav names for Warhammer, would be worth it if it was true to see GW crushed by the actual big fish of entertainment (queue image of titan sized Mickey stomping on thousands of guardsman and shouting blood for the mouse god!)

Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name. And there is nothing inherent in the 'Imperial Guard' name that has anything at all to do with Star Wars.

**Stormonu**

Well, looks like I just saved myself a bunch of money for April if those are all the models for IG. I'm certainly not shelling out for that monstrous offspring of the Bigfoot 4X4 and a WW2 half-track. How does that thing even turn on the battlefield?

**Ravenous D**

generalchaos34 wrote:
Now i know its hearsay but i did hear part of the Astra Militariumiumum issue was because Star Wars was flexing its own IP muscles back at GW, which, despite the loss of one of my fav names for Warhammer, would be worth it if it was true to see GW crushed by the actual big fish of entertainment (queue image of titan sized Mickey stomping on thousands of guardsman and shouting blood for the mouse god!)

Nah its because "storm trooper" is super sci fi generic, and GW demands it owns everything it makes, even if it means destroying fluff.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stormonu wrote:
Well, looks like I just saved myself a bunch of money for April if those are all the models for IG. I'm certainly not shelling out for that monstrous offspring of the Bigfoot 4X4 and a WW2 half-track. How does that thing even turn on the battlefield?

Also depends if the dex sucks or not. Guard are one of the armies that didn't really need to be updated. It certainly cant get better, at best its a going to get a side step and stay at its current power or the devs are going to get all rose tinted glasses on us and make guard be an auto lose army like it had been for 3 editions.

**timd**

insaniak wrote:

Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name.

Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

**generalchaos34**

timd wrote:
insaniak wrote:

Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name.

Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983

**Trasvi**

What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?

I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.

I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.

**Stormonu**

generalchaos34 wrote:
timd wrote:
insaniak wrote:

Wouldn't happen, because nothing would come of it. The similarities between Star Wars Stormtroopers and 40K Stormtroopers start and end at the name.

Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983

The red guys from Star Wars Return of the Jedi are Royal Guard, not Imperial Guard.

Still, while 40K's imperial guard have no relation to Star Wars imperial guard, the mark 7 helmet on the space marines was clearly inspired by Star War's stormtroopers (especially compared to the previous Corvus helmet).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trasvi wrote:
What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?

I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.

I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.

Looks a little better, but the truck-like chassis just seems to demand wheels. Why is another transport even being offered? I'd have rathered a light tank (like a WW2 Stuart, with scout or infiltrate) or a heavy tank (between the Lemann Russ and the Baneblade - something like the Sicaran or Macharius, but not superheavy).

**timd**

For alternative vehicle ideas, hit up Google images for tracked truck and Russian tracked truck:

https://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=tracked+truck&gbv=2&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=ZHAeU8XNEdKgogTAyoHACg&ved=0CDUQsAQ

https://www.google.com/images?q=russian+tracked+truck&safe=off&hl=en&gbv=2&tbm=isch&ei=a3EeU6ClFtLFoASjmIDwDQ&start=0&sa=N

LOTS of vehicles with four tracks:
http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/more-documentation/four-tracks-rigid-vehicles-medium.html
http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/more-documentation/four-tracks-rigid-vehicles-heavy.html
http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/more-documentation/23-four-tracks-rigid-vehicles-light.html
http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/more-documentation/articulated-tracked-vehicles-medium.html
http://www.unusuallocomotion.com/pages/more-documentation/articulated-tracked-vehicles-heavy.html

**insaniak**

timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983

The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.

There's also the fact that the legal teams behind both Star Wars and Disney have historically been much less trigger-happy than GW. While there are plenty of examples of lawsuits launched by both of those entities, they generally (at least so far as I can recall) involve actual IP infringement, rather than GW's approach of issuing legal notices in the hope of scaring off people who aren't actually doing anything wrong.

**MrMoustaffa**

Trasvi wrote:
What do you think of my quick+ nasty MS Paint job?

I'm still very doubtful that GW would change the name of one of its most iconic armies to something near unpronounceable. I can kind of see the angle, "ohh CHS used 'Imperial Guard' so we need to move to more protectable names".... but that decision would never be made by any competent company ... maybe GW doesn't fit that description. The minuscule gain by possibly potentially reducing sales of people like CHS would absolutely be offset by name recognition not only of current players but the general public - not to mention that GW probably gain more sales by CHSs business than they lose.

I'm HOPING that Astra Militarum is a supplement, putting the more unique aspects of IG (Commissars, Ogryns, Ratlings) into a book of their own while keeping IG as a separate codex.

I really hope they don't. I don't want to have to buy 3 different books to field my army that only needed one before.

Yes, Commissars, Storm Troopers, Ogryn, and other units are not *technically* Imperial Guard. That doesn't mean they can't be included in the codex though. They're an integral part of the army, just like the Imperial Navy. From any other companies, I would be perfectly happy to see a ton of supplements come out, but that's because other companies don't charge $50 for a slightly changed force org and some special rules. Battlefront and Warlord release "supplements" with entire armies and rules for FREE as PDF's. Why on earth should GW be charging as much as the full codex for a small change in rules?

If I bought the codex and saw that I needed a supplement just to field Commissars, I would be very unhappy. That would be the final straw to make me drop 40k for good, at least until another IG codex had come out.

**generalchaos34**

insaniak wrote:
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983

The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.

That that explains it a bit, i was never sure of how exactly it was enforced, other than hearing about silly companies trying to trademark the word Candy or some b#@$s@#%

**weeble1000**

insaniak wrote:
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983

The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.

There's also the fact that the legal teams behind both Star Wars and Disney have historically been much less trigger-happy than GW. While there are plenty of examples of lawsuits launched by both of those entities, they generally (at least so far as I can recall) involve actual IP infringement, rather than GW's approach of issuing legal notices in the hope of scaring off people who aren't actually doing anything wrong.

That's a rosy view of Disney and LucasFilm insaniak. I think it is fair to say that neither Disney nor LucasFilm were as stupid about IP enforcement as GW, but not that they were nicer or more legitimate about it.

**insaniak**

weeble1000 wrote:
I think it is fair to say that neither Disney nor LucasFilm were as stupid about IP enforcement as GW, but not that they were nicer or more legitimate about it.

That's probably closer to what I was trying to say, yes.

There have certainly still been lawsuits that raised eyebrows (like Disney going after a childcare centre that had painted pictures of Disney characters on their walls)... but then you also have Lucas for decades pretty much ignoring anything that wasn't making actual money from his IP. I would never expect, for example, to hear about Lucasfilm going after some fan website because they happen to be using a trademarked name... And the continuing production of character cards for the Star Wars Miniatures game as a non-profit fan-driven affair (on a website called 'Star Wars Mini Gamers, no less) well after the expiration of WotC's game licence is a rather stark contrast to the way GW handles anyone being enthusiastic about their games online...

**General Hobbs**

Stormonu wrote:
Well, looks like I just saved myself a bunch of money for April if those are all the models for IG. I'm certainly not shelling out for that monstrous offspring of the Bigfoot 4X4 and a WW2 half-track. How does that thing even turn on the battlefield?

Also depends if the dex sucks or not. Guard are one of the armies that didn't really need to be updated. It certainly cant get better, at best its a going to get a side step and stay at its current power or the devs are going to get all rose tinted glasses on us and make guard be an auto lose army like it had been for 3 editions.

**krazynadechukr**

Love the pic of the scions casually walking out of a valkyrie, while waves of tyranids are nearly upon them, and one guy is just waving his flag like he is shooing them away, another just strolling, one on the phone with mom, the leader out front "Uh, guys?" Others looking around, "Where's the enemy?"

**timd**

insaniak wrote:
timd wrote:Unless Star Wars has trademarked the word "Stormtrooper", In which case there would be issues....

generalchaos34 wrote:See what i heard was Imperial Guard, which if you recall are the red guys who they have been making toys for since 1983

The 'red guys' are more commonly known as Royal Guard... but neither of the above examples would be a problem, because the Star Wars versions bear no resemblance whatsoever to the 40K entities with the same names. A Trademark doesn't give you total ownership of the word. It just covers uses of it similar to your own.

In the USA at least, a trademark is protected only with certain categories (classes). A list is here:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/classification/selectnumwithtitle.htm

One of those categories is: D21 Games, toys, and sports goods, so only one company can have the protected trademark "Stormtrooper" within the games, toys and sporting goods class without potential for legal conflict. This gives a potential legal conflict between Star Wars and GW. Looks like GW is avoiding a potential problem by renaming its Stormtroopers.

There is only one "live" Stormtrooper trademark listed in the USA and it is owned by Lucasfilm Entertainment for use with "Toy action figures and accessories therefor; action type target games; Christmas tree ornaments; connecting toy links for toy building blocks; construction toys; costume masks; doll costume masks; dolls; jigsaw puzzles; paper face masks; plush toys; role-playing toys; three-dimensional puzzles; toy action figures; toy building blocks; toy candy dispensers; toy candy holders; toy coin banks; toy model hobby craft kits; toy snow globes; toy weapons; wind-up toys; and toy helmets."

Link:
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=4806:a60nnk.2.2

T

**H.B.M.C.**

As it happens, they don't share a name.

GW have gone to great lengths to refer to the Stormies as "Storm Troopers" in basically everything they've written, whereas in Star Wars they're "Stormtroopers". Yes, the space makes a difference. There's the odd slip-up on the online store, but for the most part GW has called them Storm Troopers (and not Stormtroopers) for a very long time.

**ultimentra**

With all of this talk about metals being phased out, I haven't heard a single word about Techpriests. Do you guys think they are going to be phased out of the codex completely? It was widely accepted that they are useless in the current codex, and given their unpopularity it might mean we see the end of us even getting the option of taking a techpriest. What are your guys thoughts?

**timd**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
As it happens, they don't share a name.

GW have gone to great lengths to refer to the Stormies as "Storm Troopers" in basically everything they've written, whereas in Star Wars they're "Stormtroopers". Yes, the space makes a difference. There's the odd slip-up on the online store, but for the most part GW has called them Storm Troopers (and not Stormtroopers) for a very long time.

A mildly aggressive IP lawyer would say the similarities between stormtrooper and storm trooper would cause "confusion in the marketplace"...

T

**CrashCanuck**

[Edit] Missed the wings, that's a valkyrie, my bad.

**Commissar Benny**

Looks like Mantic Games is having fun with GW's new vehicle

The new truck is quite possibly the worst release this year. Far worse than centurions aesthetically imo. Where do they find these artists? You can be assured that its rules/stats will likely be insane as its the only way they are going to sell the model.

**generalchaos34**

Commissar Benny wrote:
Looks like Mantic Games is having fun with GW's new vehicle

The new truck is quite possibly the worst release this year. Far worse than centurions aesthetically imo. Where do they find these artists? You can be assured that its rules/stats will likely be insane as its the only way they are going to sell the model.

WAIT A SEC!!!! I just thought of something.....

This thing looks terrible....

We all know GW purposely leaks these photos....

When are they being released? End of March

Do you think this may be a very elaborate and poorly timed April Fools joke?

God i hope so