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Okay, good; that makes things easier. I'm thinking that instead of 10 slugga/choppas with 1 rokkit and 1 nob, I'll change the rokkit to another slugga/choppa. It gets me to the 500 point limit, and honestly, I think it fits that squad better anyway. They're going in a trukk, so that's why I'm limiting that squad to 12.

Thanks for the help, all. I feel kind of selfish just asking questions and not offering much advice, but I've yet to actually play a game so there's not much I feel I'm qualified to offer.

Don't feel selfish. All ork players are welcome here. Whither you are asking fr advice or giving it.

If yer green den your right proppa

'Eavy armour on a blob of 30 footslogging boyz with Mad Dok attached to them (Fearless for dayz, unless a Painboy would be better). Yay or nay?

 Frozocrone wrote:
'Eavy armour on a blob of 30 footslogging boyz with Mad Dok attached to them (Fearless for dayz, unless a Painboy would be better). Yay or nay?

How many points is the game?

1500-1850 ish.

I don't think I'd bother at any lower than that, best to try and fit as many Boyz on the field and overwhelm at that points level.

That is gonna be my strategy, I think. Orks are made to be numerous and expendable, and the heavy armor looks really expensive. Maybe if for some reason I had a smaller squad I'd consider it, like a bunch of boys riding in something fragile like a trukk.

 Frozocrone wrote:
1500-1850 ish.

I don't think I'd bother at any lower than that, best to try and fit as many Boyz on the field and overwhelm at that points level.

I'd probably just go with a Painboy without the 'Eavy armour

Makes the squad more durable without racking up the cost too much - depending on terrain and how spread out you can make the squad they would be very vulnerable to pie plates and 'Eavy armour wouldn't help that much as most of those weapons have a lower AP than 4.

I generally tend to agree, I think FNP is far superior to EArmour, I mean at a unit of 12+ the painboy is also cheaper. If you can get some coversaves or such like then you also save points there. However saying that, dependant on the rest of the list a large blob that is durable holding central control of the board might not be a bad idea


I ran 3 weirdboyz last night, my initial thoughts after the game were that they hadn't been worth it, but after some more thought I actually think they were. I rolled some pretty decent powers. One had Killbolt and power vomit, another had killbolt and warpath, the final had warpath and da jump.

I was generating 9+D6 dice and found that getting off 2-3 frazzles a turn + 2 killbolts easily made their points back. I killed 3 wraithblades with a killbolt just before charging into them, the softening up really helped me win the following combat. I will admit that weirdboyz are quite fragile. I mean in two games now i've had my weirdboyz die to perils. around turn 3 I moved up to power vomit 3 CSM havocs, I perils'ed rolled a 1, failed leadership and wiped the shoota boyz unit with 4 Str6 AP1 hits Although ofc the power vomit also wiped the remaining havocs. hilarious trade, but I think in that moment alone the weirdboy made his points back, not to mention all the other stuff he killed.

I think with Ork weirdboyz you have to not expect them to last the game. For 70 points you have some seriously potent dakka that you just need to unleash all over the enemy. I ran 2 weirdboyz in boyz units and the final in a busta's unit. So with 3 boyz squads at 1500 it became pretty difficult to prioritise targets, as each squad had a powerful toolkit with AP2 and AP3 spells, meaning they could all handle MEQ and even TEQ suitably.

I'd love a Wierdboy formation, making them ML3 or only rolling perils on sixes for the Daemonic Powers. I would totally try for hammerhand and have S5 boyz, tarpit and eventually kill that Wraithknight for days

As the thread advances does rhe op spoiler get ipdated to reflect the concencus?

Potentially, although OP hasn't been around for a while.

Got a dilemna, running Mogrok's Boyz (list in Army Lists) and I have an Outflanking Blitzabomber, although I'm contemplating switching them out for a Deffkopta and 5x Lobbas with Ammo Runts.

Main purpose would be barrage sniping and anti infantry while the Deffkopta can Scout up the Warboss if I roll infiltrate trait (Finkin Kap) and want to Infiltrate the bikes.

So I played my first game today. I used the list I posted here, despite the advice to get rid of the 5 stormboyz and give the nobs 'eavy armor. In retrospect, I should have done that, but the stormboyz just look so cool.

Anyway, it helped me learn a lot about the game, and also taught me that fighting against termies with +2 armor saves is really, really frustrating. Is there any sort of workaround for those?

Also, +4 cover saves are amazing. I didn't lose a single loota because I rolled 4+ at least 8 times when fired upon.

All in all, me and my teammate (also orks) lost, but it was a lot of fun. I now realize just how fragile trukks are, as it exploded bottom of turn 1, though I only lost a boy or two. Still, I know I'm hooked, so the next step is expanding my army. Any ideas where to go from here? I was thinking a heavier vehicle and, of course, more boyz.

Kustom Mega Kannons are fantastic and would help out against 2+ saves. That, or just get enough Boyz through to force saves.

FW Ork Transports are good but it is FW and some people are still opposed to it.

I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place. My plan honestly is to get enough boyz to punch through, but by the time the termies came down all we had left were our lootas and a weirdboy. They saved five times with that +2 save.

I think I'll probably start just getting more boyz, and probably more stormboyz to make them actually useful.

I currently play the dreamob formation but I am struggling to find the adequate support for it (in the form of a Cad).
How do support such kind of army?

If I can I try to keep with the theme (all armor): so for example vengeance battery as armored AA, but I don't find anything satisfying so far for taking care of the opponent backfield units.
Any suggestions ?

Vengeance batteries are simply terrible AA, as they just shoot at the nearest target (which probably won't be a flier).
You want a Firestorm Reboubt if you want an AA building.

You want lootas or tankbustas if you want decent AA
Another option with AV is a dakkajet. Although, it's not terribly effective due to s6 ap4 and being an av10 flyer. However, it's 9-12 bs3 shots which is reasonable for it's price. Can force a jink.

As for buildings, i'm only aware of redoubt and gun emplacements that are not great.

Anywayz, you can always ally in daemons with a Mask to land fmc. And flyers are rather avoidable.

@vitaly
You need ap2. In the ork codex for ap2 your choices are: Blitza bomba, shokk attack gun, Kustom mega blasta/kannon/pistol, telleporta gun, bubble chukka, several weirdboy powers, smasha gun, and snazzguns 33% of the time for shooting. At merle you have: Powerklaw, killsaw at initiative 1 on tons of models, our walkers at initiative 2-4, Zagstrukk at initiative 10, and initiative 4 for the FW bikerboss.... Whose name I can't remember.... For no reason since I own him... So weird.

If I missed one let Vitaly know. Point is, Orcs can shred ap2 quite easily.

Vitali Advenil wrote:I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place. My plan honestly is to get enough boyz to punch through, but by the time the termies came down all we had left were our lootas and a weirdboy. They saved five times with that +2 save.

I think I'll probably start just getting more boyz, and probably more stormboyz to make them actually useful.

Yep, Those 2+ saves can be a real pain. The best all rounder (IMO) is simply boyz squads with a nob with a PK and a mek. Its your bog standard unit, you let the boyz make base to base, the mek can take any challenges that you don't want and the nob is there to eat through the 2+ with his PK. Generally on the charge you should also generate enough attacks to kill 1-2 2+ simply through volume.

As for more direct units. KMK's will usually wipe a few 2+ a turn easily. They also have enough strength to ID multiwound models. Lootas will also force quite a few saves as generally termies are still T4, so your wounding easily enough; but typically i'd only shoot termies with them if they had no other useful targets.

XC18 wrote:I currently play the dreamob formation but I am struggling to find the adequate support for it (in the form of a Cad).
How do support such kind of army?

If I can I try to keep with the theme (all armor): so for example vengeance battery as armored AA, but I don't find anything satisfying so far for taking care of the opponent backfield units.
Any suggestions ?

What kind of backfield units? Infantry? I'd take lobba's. 48" range, NoLos required, barrage and with ammo runts. They can fire from turn 1, will fire every turn and will make their points back easily. As for backfield armour, i'd take lootas, again good range, good strength and can overwhelm even jinking units. Scouting/outflanking deffkoptas? low points cost and can help alleviate fire from your walkers as your opponent won't simply leave them taking pot shots at side/rear armour.

I actually find the vengeance batteries quite useful with a dreadmob army.
It's AV 14 sitting on objective, taking that down requires anti armor that is not targeting my dreads.
As for shooting, the limited target choice is during my shooting phase, not during interception shots. A smart player can position his model for less damage, true, but against 2 batteries on 2 different locations is less easy, and they always tend to forget after few turns.

Lootas are nice but any anti-infantery will wipe them turn one (thunderfire, wyvern...) cause no other target.
Yeah i am thinking of armor backfield or heavy infantery (centurions, broadside, thunderfire artillery...).

Hmm indeed koptas +busszaw could be a good solution, and help to grab objectifs .
Thx !

Outflanking rokkit buggies. They are TL, cheap and fast and still armour, although vunerable to bolter fire as only AV10.

------------------------------------------
Ladies and Gents,
I need some advice on SAG bodyguards, I am going to run Mogrok, but using the 3 Bmeks as SAG's. So I want a cheap way to protect them;

What is most effective?

Grot blob - (so cheap wounds) behind an ADL? Get a cover save and I can take a few deaths before any LD checks.
Lootas? - Just seems like you make them an even bigger priority this way.
boyz blob - behind ADL? maybe bump to 12 dudes, benefit being T4 and the ability to roll mob rule?

I find a battery of KMB is a nice bunker for a SAG.
They share similar targets, and the Mek gets a nice toughness boost.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place.

Honestly, Battlewagons do the job just fine. They're fast, pretty durable and unload a lot of boyz and a lot of shots. I've had a lot of games where my battlewagons have been just driving round killing stuff even after delivering the unit inside, and if the battle goes badly, they're often the last thing on the board. Remember vehicles can take objectives, which is really useful in such situations.

 The Shadow wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place.

Honestly, Battlewagons do the job just fine. They're fast, pretty durable and unload a lot of boyz and a lot of shots. I've had a lot of games where my battlewagons have been just driving round killing stuff even after delivering the unit inside, and if the battle goes badly, they're often the last thing on the board. Remember vehicles can take objectives, which is really useful in such situations.

Wagons are a solid choice, but can get a little pricey.

I did a review of Ork transport options a little while back here, including the FW stuff.

grendel083 wrote:I find a battery of KMB is a nice bunker for a SAG.
They share similar targets, and the Mek gets a nice toughness boost.

Yeh KMK's are good, as T7 and such. But my aim was to try and get Output saturation. I wanted to be able to drop 3 SAG shots onto the enemy alongside 2-3 weirdboyz.
However, going off what you just said;

2 lobbas - 4 extra grots and 2 ammo runts.
At the price of about 60 points I gain T7 and 8 wounds. Stick that behind an ADL, the lobbas will have the range to hit anything the SAG can, it will assist in anytime I shoot at infantry and a couple extra side hits on vehicles is always a nice bonus Secondly, if they are all hiding out of LOS I can still shoot the lobbas anyway.

hmm I actually really like that idea. Cheap, T7 and still has almost as many wounds as a boyz mob.

Just a reminder that small blast templates are primarily taken to be a range of influence threat to anything considering a DS shooting attack. Most opponents can outplay them by spreading out proper. My pie plate of choice are the sag mek and the killkannon (ap3).

Overwhelm 2+ saves with any of the many ways orkz have to throw handfuls of dice at stuff(loota, and shoota, or just run sluggish boyz into it). Nothing worse than going through the effort of having AP2 fire at a 2+ just to have the opponent take a cover save anyways.

Shoot AV with tankbusta, assault AV14 with tankbusta, shoot FMC with tankbusta, assault MC with tankbusta, shoot marines with tankbusta. Take 30 tankbusta. My opinions.

 Rismonite wrote:
Just a reminder that small blast templates are primarily taken to be a range of influence threat to anything considering a DS shooting attack. Most opponents can outplay them by spreading out proper. My pie plate of choice are the sag mek and the killkannon (ap3).

Indeed you can spread out from them. However i've still found 5 lobbas are useful. Those times you pop open a transport with glances and they have to pile out of the back, more often than not the 6" allowance doesn't leave them enough room to fully spread. Then you give them a liberal covering with blasts

Overwhelm 2+ saves with any of the many ways orkz have to throw handfuls of dice at stuff(loota, and shoota, or just run sluggish boyz into it). Nothing worse than going through the effort of having AP2 fire at a 2+ just to have the opponent take a cover save anyways.

Shoot AV with tankbusta, assault AV14 with tankbusta, shoot FMC with tankbusta, assault MC with tankbusta, shoot marines with tankbusta. Take 30 tankbusta. My opinions.

 grendel083 wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I'll have to ask about Forgeworld next time I go down to the GW place.

Honestly, Battlewagons do the job just fine. They're fast, pretty durable and unload a lot of boyz and a lot of shots. I've had a lot of games where my battlewagons have been just driving round killing stuff even after delivering the unit inside, and if the battle goes badly, they're often the last thing on the board. Remember vehicles can take objectives, which is really useful in such situations.

Wagons are a solid choice, but can get a little pricey.

I did a review of Ork transport options a little while back here, including the FW stuff.

I find Battlewagons work best as just a transport. Battlewagon w/ a reinforced ram and either a big shoota or a rokkit launcha. MAYBE if you have the points, get the boarding plank.
But what this does is keeps an AV14, 4HP assault vehicle w/ 20 transport capacity under 120 points. That's an amazing deal compared to other armies. in 1500+ PT games I always have two 20-boy squads in these barebones wagons. That's basically the starting point to my lists. Sure it takes up two heavy support slots but lately I have been making use of fast attack and elites quite a bit. Warbuggies have been an awesome addition and I have been bringing them in most of my lists lately.
I usually bring Lootas in my third heavy support slot. But since I have 3 battlewagons and I see how effective they are, I have brought a unit of standard nobs (OMG they're terrible!!) in a dedicated transport wagon. It actually works out really well, and catches my opponents off guard. I tell them I'm playing orks and the last thing they expect is a wall of AV14. And say what you will about nobs, but these guys wreck when they get in to close combat, just like regular boyz do. But yea they are a little pricey.

Battlewagons are probably what I'll go with next. Trukks just seem too small and fragile to be much use. They only carry 12 boyz, which is pretty damn small for orks, and are fragile enough to take down turn 1. A battlewagon carrying around my slugga/choppas would be much better. I might save the truck for some nobz and whatever character I decide to stick with them (likely a warboss), and have the truck hide behind the battlewagons during the advance. I think a combination of green tide and plenty of vehicles is how I'm gonna do things.

Still gotta find a use for my stormboyz though. They just look too damn cool not to use.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Battlewagons are probably what I'll go with next. Trukks just seem too small and fragile to be much use. They only carry 12 boyz, which is pretty damn small for orks, and are fragile enough to take down turn 1. A battlewagon carrying around my slugga/choppas would be much better. I might save the truck for some nobz and whatever character I decide to stick with them (likely a warboss), and have the truck hide behind the battlewagons during the advance. I think a combination of green tide and plenty of vehicles is how I'm gonna do things.

Still gotta find a use for my stormboyz though. They just look too damn cool not to use.

aw man, my hero

Start building towards the five battlewagon formation. Don't be afraid to have a light boyz squad in trucks, you do still have to satisfy troop requirements and it's strange how trukk boyz can get away with murder when your opponent is worried about orkz in battlewagonz. Boyz, even without a PK, can still;
-Assault a vehicle with rear av10
-Throw lots of dice at good armor saves
-Assault support units depending on cover
-Draw challenges in assault.

Keep your warboss out of these squads, put him with units in battlewagonz that shouldn't be shot first. Use him like bait, if you opponent doesn't shoot his wagon then he wades into CC and makes them regret it. You want your Warboss for the WAAAGH! that is his purpose.

Don't give up on stormboyz especially if you are running a warboss A squad of stormboyz have an assault range that can clean up shooty stuff that would harm your army's mainstay during a WAAAGH and are really good at fleshing out units depending on range and cover saves to stay safe. One ten to twenty man stormboy squad can almost always do work with the right strategy. I almost always have some stormboyz, not too many, but I always do, and they always come from a far distance to prevent some enemy support from shooting me to death in my opponents shooting phase.