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I agree, everything posted by them on fb makes it unlikely that this is about AT/Epic. Well, later in 2018 then I guess.

They have shown another photo

Warhammer Citadel - via B&C

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:


I'm hoping for a great new Titan 'skirmish' game which does something a bit different to classic Epic, and then some lovely new (correctly scaled) Titans that can be used by the Epic playing community for the existing Armageddon and NetEpic games

Since titans came first, I'd argue the titans were the 'right' scale - it's everything else that's wrong! :-)

Haha yes, quite.

I heard a comment recently that the original Turtleback Warlords and Reavers scale really will with 3mm miniatures rather than 6mm, which I think is probably spot on.

I've got a few of the original metal Space Marine Rapier and Mole Mortar models that used to come scattered in Adeptus Titanicus blister packs in 1989. They stand head and shoulders above the plastic Marines included in 1st edition Space Marine. Epic "scale" was never any such thing. The models looked good en masse on a tabletop two feet away, which is all that mattered.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I've got a few of the original metal Space Marine Rapier and Mole Mortar models that used to come scattered in Adeptus Titanicus blister packs in 1989. They stand head and shoulders above the plastic Marines included in 1st edition Space Marine. Epic "scale" was never any such thing. The models looked good en masse on a tabletop two feet away, which is all that mattered.

If you want en masse, go for 3mm. The old Titan models also do make more sense as 3mm scale models anyways!

Scale isn't really a great hill to die on. In the Dan Abnett-written Titan comics the Imperious Dictatio is huge, with companion-ways throughout, and enough space for a stowaway Termagant to hide. By comparison the official FW model has only a few small compartments, and even Blackadder's amazing Lucius-pattern Warlord isn't particularly roomy inside.

A perfectly cromulant answer is that titans are/were built on thousands of worlds with local materials and manufacturing, designed for different terrain, gravities and missions.

So my Warlord may not be the same as the one built ten worlds away for some low-g worlds.

 Nurglitch wrote:
Scale isn't really a great hill to die on. In the Dan Abnett-written Titan comics the Imperious Dictatio is huge, with companion-ways throughout, and enough space for a stowaway Termagant to hide. By comparison the official FW model has only a few small compartments, and even Blackadder's amazing Lucius-pattern Warlord isn't particularly roomy inside.

Do keep in mind that the size of the Titans wasn't that consistent yet. FW seems to be pushing for more consistency in the last couple of years.

Interesting point about scale!

Also for use of 'cromulent' (and me learning a new word today! Although disappointed that it wasn't anything to do with Conan).

 Malika2 wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
Scale isn't really a great hill to die on. In the Dan Abnett-written Titan comics the Imperious Dictatio is huge, with companion-ways throughout, and enough space for a stowaway Termagant to hide. By comparison the official FW model has only a few small compartments, and even Blackadder's amazing Lucius-pattern Warlord isn't particularly roomy inside.

Do keep in mind that the size of the Titans wasn't that consistent yet. FW seems to be pushing for more consistency in the last couple of years.

Studio-produced fluff has always been pretty consistent when it comes to numbers for Titan heights. Artwork and BL fiction (possibly derived from that artwork) not so much. Forge World just went with the numbers that have been canon since the original AT rather than trying to reconcile the wildly variable* art.




* Hell, Imperius Dictatio itself is seen on one piece literally bestriding mountains, with an entire armoured company line astern within its stride, and in another is short enough for Hekate to climb, using ladders, in the time between the alarm being raised and a surprise assault reaching the walls of the compound it was parked in.

On the scale....info from the horse’s mouth.

Adeptus Titanicus was only ever meant to be a Titan v Titan game. Indeed, the great appeal was one sculpt, cast in two different colours, could represent two different armies.

The scale didn’t matter one jot in those early days, as the Titans need only be in relative scale to each other (so a Warlord is noticeably larger than a Reaver etc).

When infantry came along, it was the smallest they could make them at the time. Now whether that was technological limitations, or in terms of ‘well, we’d quite like them to actually look different on the board’ I can’t quite recall.

All that info, provided to me by people employed by GW that we’d reasonably expect to actually know such things, on account they were there at time

That's an interesting bit of info!

Personally the Titan to infantry size ratio doesn't bother me that much as long as you keep the Titans themselves consistently sized. But I am holding out painting up current Titans until the new ones come along (precisely so I don't have different scale Reavers etc)

Another interesting titbit (although think this is more commonly known) is that the Horus Heresy was invented as an idea to have marines fighting marines in 1st edition Space Marine epic - simply because they were the only sculpts they had at the time! From the smallest of acorns..

Warhams-77 wrote:
I agree, everything posted by them on fb makes it unlikely that this is about AT/Epic. Well, later in 2018 then I guess.

They have shown another photo

Warhammer Citadel - via B&C

Check out Perturabo's base:

Exactly the same.

Good catch!

...why the heck did they post that then? Weird.

Maybe they are just making new diorama.

Perhaps it's some 'epic' Primarch / HH diorama

Siege of Terra, maybe?

Really psyched for this to come back out!

 Pacific wrote:
That's an interesting bit of info!

Personally the Titan to infantry size ratio doesn't bother me that much as long as you keep the Titans themselves consistently sized. But I am holding out painting up current Titans until the new ones come along (precisely so I don't have different scale Reavers etc)

Another interesting titbit (although think this is more commonly known) is that the Horus Heresy was invented as an idea to have marines fighting marines in 1st edition Space Marine epic - simply because they were the only sculpts they had at the time! From the smallest of acorns..

Nearly - that was the reason for a civil ewar, but it was Adeptus Titanicus, and the Warlord titan model. Infantry came later (originally as the odd metal model included in blister packs of titans).

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So my Warlord may not be the same as the one built ten worlds away for some low-g worlds.

Even if that was zero-g world, inertia is still a thing. As being big target for no appreciable increase of defense (as armour scales in proportion to size squared, but weight in size cubed making bigger titans defenses worse - see for example some 60 ton WW2 German tanks that had thinner armour than their 35 ton Russian counterparts due to wasted space inside).

 Irbis wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So my Warlord may not be the same as the one built ten worlds away for some low-g worlds.

Even if that was zero-g world, inertia is still a thing. As being big target for no appreciable increase of defense (as armour scales in proportion to size squared, but weight in size cubed making bigger titans defenses worse - see for example some 60 ton WW2 German tanks that had thinner armour than their 35 ton Russian counterparts due to wasted space inside).

That doesn't discount what Kid Kyoto said though.

You could have some advantage from having a bigger frame (more weapon mounts, larger weapons, larger troop carrying capacity) - that would be made possible from having a lower force of gravity.

"Low-G"/"High-G" reasoning is almost as bad as the "Lost in the Warp" stuff!

So where's the big reveal?

Is there something due any time then?

There were some people in the FB Epic group saying they knew the sculptor of the new minis and they were completed now. So soon perhaps?

 Mysterio wrote:
"Low-G"/"High-G" reasoning is almost as bad as the "Lost in the Warp" stuff!

I hope you're not suggesting there is a fundamental problem with the background of the Squats, sir!

 Pacific wrote:
Is there something due any time then?

There were some people in the FB Epic group saying they knew the sculptor of the new minis and they were completed now. So soon perhaps?

 Mysterio wrote:
"Low-G"/"High-G" reasoning is almost as bad as the "Lost in the Warp" stuff!

I hope you're not suggesting there is a fundamental problem with the background of the Squats, sir!

In an interview last year, Tony Cottrell said they were on a yearly schedule for specialist games now. He also said that they initially announced it far too early. I would expect an August reannouncement for a November release as they did with Necromunda.

 Malika2 wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:
Scale isn't really a great hill to die on. In the Dan Abnett-written Titan comics the Imperious Dictatio is huge, with companion-ways throughout, and enough space for a stowaway Termagant to hide. By comparison the official FW model has only a few small compartments, and even Blackadder's amazing Lucius-pattern Warlord isn't particularly roomy inside.

Do keep in mind that the size of the Titans wasn't that consistent yet. FW seems to be pushing for more consistency in the last couple of years.

Agreed. If scale made any real difference, the'd be sold as scale-models, rather than it being gently flexible. The point is that they're big. I personally think a big selling point of the original Adept Titanicus was the weapons. Having the plug & play weapons was, and still is, an incredible feature that I've never seen replicated successfully.

I think that the new models will be modular, but not to the same extent. The Warlord titan model introduced with Epic 40,000 gave the Warlord lighter weapons on the carapace than in the arm mounts, (turbolaser destructors, which were introduced in 2nd edition Epic as a lighter weapon for Warhound and Reaver titans). Forge World seem to have continued that, at least with the Warlord.

Back in the AT days there were multiple different classes of Warlord based on the presence, absense, and “weight” of any carapace weapons. I can see them doing that again, then translating that to 40k. All they’d need to do is come up with some point values for the actual weapons rather than making them all cost zero.

 gorgon wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Ursus claw?

Oh boy, here's hoping someone is insane enough to build a proper Legio Audax then!

I will be that someone.

I second that motion right down to the World Eaters hanging from the chains on the legs..... God I love ADB work.

Then again if we get either of the Titan Legions for Xana II.... then all bets are off but I don't see either the Gore Crows or the Death Cry being released anytime soon or even the colours released.

Firstly, thanks to all for the information so freely provided. I had been hoping there would be more about the new AT announced at Adepticon, but I think there wasn't anything new? (Wasn't there, thus enquiry.)

I fear plastic Titans will consume too much of my income later this year, like a titanic, plastic, income-consuming thing.

Meantime, I speculate: Will the new rules include 'character' Titans (for want of a better descriptor)? Or, the means to 'personalise' a Titan with tweaks and in-game abilities that make it unique?

My experience with Mobile Suit Skirmish is that the game really comes alive with the inclusion of Pilots with their Abilities and Traits that cause their mecha to stand out from the crowd, and encourage a player to feel more empathy for their playing pieces.

Just a thought.