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What do we reckon to Fabius Bile?

I'm hesitant to use his buffs on my 20-man CSM squad that's been kicking ass so far. Losing 3-4 of them would make an impact on their ability to brave a gauntlet of firepower and come through with enough men left to do some damage. And if they get +1T... that's only really going to help against S4-5 and 8-9. If there were some FNP type buff I could get for them, maybe, but as it is, I think I prefer more boots on the ground.

He could, of course, follow them into battle, and buff them on the turn they charge - this would be better, as having taken casualties to firepower they'll be rolling fewer death dice. But this is still paying about 150pts for the buff - including Bile himself and the handful of squaddies he'll kill.

Other options? Well...do Plague Marines get their Nurgle save against Mortal Wounds? Because that'd prevent a third of cases of medical malpractice, and all of the bonuses look good for them, if they're in a front line role.

Non-Marine units have potential. Killing a few Cultists to make them T4 or able to deal with most deep striking units? That's not bad, in some situations. Tzaangors and Poxwalkers? They look like very good subjects.

Terminators and Mutilators are definitely interesting. In most cases, they'll not lose anyone to the death dice. Certainly when fighting MEQs, the buffs are all tasty. And Bile will fit in a Land Raider with three Muties.

Warp Talons... hmm, kind of tempting.

Of course as well as his buffing ability - which I'd like to use at least twice in a game to get decent use out of him - he also regenerates. Facing a squad of ten Scouts with Sniper Rifles and a Missile Launcher, he will generally be able to advance and break even. He's pretty capable at close quarters, but must be protected as he is never going to compete with dedicated assault units. That last point shouldn't be a trouble, given that we want him to have suitable test subjects to hand.

With Fabius the general issues are: most of the buffs are close combat boosts and he can't use it on a unit in a transport or in reserve. It also happens at the end of the movement phase, and only works on units within an inch of him.

Honestly I'm not really sure what you'd use him with. Terminators, raptors, and warptalons would be better served deepstriking, zerkers should probably be in a transport, bikers (and non deep striking raptors/warptalons) outrun him.

... poxwalkers maybe? You'll already be walking them up the field, they have DR to deal with mortal wounds, and he can keep up without issue. So stick him in a cluster of poxwalkers units alongside typhus and have fun?

He can't buff Bikers, only Infantry. Poxwalkers definitely looking best for him, in fact he kind of fills the role of the Dark Apostle with the zombie maker Relic from TL atm

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The chaos armoury expands

http://imgur.com/a/URC38

Where is this from? I see no new release on the forge world site and the page number does not correspond to the Chaos index.

 sennacherib wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The chaos armoury expands

http://imgur.com/a/URC38

Where is this from? I see no new release on the forge world site and the page number does not correspond to the Chaos index.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Imperial-Armour-Index-Astra-Militarum-2017

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 sennacherib wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The chaos armoury expands

http://imgur.com/a/URC38

Where is this from? I see no new release on the forge world site and the page number does not correspond to the Chaos index.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Imperial-Armour-Index-Astra-Militarum-2017

I can't believe they incorporated the heretics into the loyalist dex.

 sennacherib wrote:

I can't believe they incorporated the heretics into the loyalist dex.

Well, Dark Angels are in Index Imperium 1 too.

Okay, it's a fairly large matched play game and it's serious business, we've got a Sorcerer about to teleport or paradrop in so we can place him out of DTW range & have a solid chance of casting, what should we be casting Warptime on?

A Hellforged Predator? I like the idea of getting toe-to-toe with a horde, torching a third of them, and daring the rest to charge it.

Ten deepstriking Warp Talons? I like the idea of engaging multiple long ranged units, denying them OW, inflicting serious damage on the infantry ones, and forcing them all to miss a turn Falling Back or trying to fight them off. Potential here to assassinate support characters.

Ten deepstriking Terminators? Oh, man, with a Banner of Wrath that's going to HURT.

Deepstriking Raptors? They can exert some serious threat potential, getting plasma or melta where it needs to be and bringing a BoW for epic deep insertion utility. If we can goad the enemy to stand and fight, we can ourselves Fall Back next turn and take shots at another deep unit. Throw in a PF and we are a major worry for support characters.

Nine Bikers? They can get into the enemy DZ before shooting with brutal firepower, have a competent charge, and a statline that will absorb a lot of payback. Many of us will have Nurgle Bikers - this will project a Ld debuff over a wide area. Potentially interesting synergy with Furies as well. Khornate Bikers have a bigger threat radius, could potentially grab a character.

A Dreadclaw Helbrute? It's been noted above that we should probably forget the Dreadclaw and just run two Helbrutes.

A Primarch? Yes please

A Maulerfiend? I'm not especially impressed with its damage output, I'm sorry to say. It's certainly not going to bench a Land Raider unless we first cripple it with shooting - in which case, it's already been neutralised as a Terminator delivery system, and can be finished off at our leisure.

Twenty Berzerkers in a Kharybdis? Possible BAHAHAHA, FIRST TURN WIN BUTTON? Should they have a Dark Apostle and conga line to him for re-rolls, or should they just pile in as many as possible?

A Scorpion! Oh wait...

I would personally go with Zerker Hordes out of a Khaybdis, everything else has some kind of shooting it can do in the mean time but the Zerkers NEED to get into cc. Drown your opponant in attacks! And if that fails, they shall drown in the Bronzen Blood!

 lindsay40k wrote:
Twenty Berzerkers in a Kharybdis? Possible BAHAHAHA, FIRST TURN WIN BUTTON? Should they have a Dark Apostle and conga line to him for re-rolls, or should they just pile in as many as possible?

I ran this exact thing in a tourny this weekend. It did very very well even when I had to Warptime the Kharybdis instead of the Zerkers since they had no direct target. My problem was not utilizing the rest of the army well. In a Khorne army you need to keep all your forces together and roll over the enemy on mass. Your Zerkers need to link up with the rest of your forces and then move together.

Didn't win any of my games, but they were very close. My game against three Storm Ravens filled to bursting with Blood Angels was a mess.

Also, what are we thinking of the Death Guard PlagueBurst Crawler? Rules haven't been leaked yet but we have images:

I think that for a tank with a very nurglite name and in a Death Guard preview it doesn't really look like a Nurglite vehicle. Looks more like a generic chaos model.

Hmm, I'm looking at expanding my Terminators to ten troopers with a BoW. A LC here and there isn't bad, but I really don't see why I'd take a pair over a single plus a combi-weapon. Ten troopers, four melta, four plasma, two HR, two PF, two CF, two LC, two PA, two PM. Should be able to take all comers. Reaper Autocannon seems underpowered, and if these are teleporting in & Warptiming to victory, long range is unnecessary.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm, I'm looking at expanding my Terminators to ten troopers with a BoW. A LC here and there isn't bad, but I really don't see why I'd take a pair over a single plus a combi-weapon. Ten troopers, four melta, four plasma, two HR, two PF, two CF, two LC, two PA, two PM. Should be able to take all comers. Reaper Autocannon seems underpowered, and if these are teleporting in & Warptiming to victory, long range is unnecessary.

What are you going to give the Lord to run with them? (Because why wouldn't you run a Terminator Lord with them?)

Bluebeard wrote:
I think that for a tank with a very nurglite name and in a Death Guard preview it doesn't really look like a Nurglite vehicle. Looks more like a generic chaos model.

Sluglike shape, pitted and scarred hull, looks fairly DG to me. I mean, if it isn't a daemon engine it isn't going to have rot or puss dripping out of them.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm, I'm looking at expanding my Terminators to ten troopers with a BoW. A LC here and there isn't bad, but I really don't see why I'd take a pair over a single plus a combi-weapon. Ten troopers, four melta, four plasma, two HR, two PF, two CF, two LC, two PA, two PM. Should be able to take all comers. Reaper Autocannon seems underpowered, and if these are teleporting in & Warptiming to victory, long range is unnecessary.

What are you going to give the Lord to run with them? (Because why wouldn't you run a Terminator Lord with them?)

What about Zhufor? He's a great close combat unit with more wounds and utility over a normal Termi Lord.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm, I'm looking at expanding my Terminators to ten troopers with a BoW. A LC here and there isn't bad, but I really don't see why I'd take a pair over a single plus a combi-weapon. Ten troopers, four melta, four plasma, two HR, two PF, two CF, two LC, two PA, two PM. Should be able to take all comers. Reaper Autocannon seems underpowered, and if these are teleporting in & Warptiming to victory, long range is unnecessary.

What are you going to give the Lord to run with them? (Because why wouldn't you run a Terminator Lord with them?)

What about Zhufor? He's a great close combat unit with more wounds and utility over a normal Termi Lord.

Zhufor's out for me, I'm doing Word Bearers and I'm not about to tell my opponent that my robed Annointed covered in Lorgarian imagery are actually a subfaction of World Eaters. Especially when we get Legion-specific Strategems.

That said, I was already considering a Termilord for them. Their main goal is to teleport in, right in the faces of a few units, get Warptime cast on them, and then blast away at close range before making a reliable charge. Until Heroic Intervention gets rewritten, the Lord is unlikely to join them on their charge - but will make the Melta even nastier and overcharged Plasma an option.

But instead of that, it might be worth dropping in a Jump Pack lord? Won't do much on the turn of arrival, but if a unit of Plasma Raptors drops in with him, they can protect the Lord (and also a Sorcerer who came in) from units attempting to surround the deep insertion force and get some good shots in. Then on next turn, they can cause trouble whilst the Sorcerer summons Daemons and the Jump Lord looks for someone to duel (perhaps getting Warptimed towards a specific victim).

I'm not sure what's best for the Sorcerer, TA or JP. TA gives an extra wound for when Summoning & Sorcery go wrong or Snipers appear, JP enables him to stand still - Summon - Warptime self into a fight/away from enemies. Though Warptime is more powerful when used to move a large unit into position... which kind of suggests JP, as that would enable him to get out of DTW range and closer to distant units that want a speed boost. Gah, decisions!

Anyway. I've converted Valkia into a Chaos Lord, so I guess my first try will be calling her Spear a PA and her shield a PP, at least until Relics return. I've got Melta Raptors already, I'll give them a try and put plasma Raptors on my to-do list. I think I'll go with TA Sorcerer - drop him in a Ruin, his armour will take most light to medium shooting, and then when a mobile unit tries to approach just Summon Daemons whilst throwing around Smite. Someone else can cast the Warptimes from then on, probably a Discor Bike Sorcerer on a Hellforged Predator.

...I've just noticed something. Epidemius - who is as cheap as a Chaos Lord and is very unlikely to be Snipered and Psykered to death - applies his buffs to (and can be charged up by) EVERY FRIENDLY NURGLE DAEMON IN PLAY.

Those DPs we built to Jink through everything that didn't Ignore Cover?

Those Obliterators we built to kill pretty much anything whilst tanking away with T5?

Those Heldrakes we built up out of the box and haven't converted to fit the aesthetic of a Khorne, Slaanesh or Tzeentch army?

Those Warp Talons we're thinking might not be a bad idea to paratroop in and Warptime into a load of shooty units?

Those Ectoplasma Forgefiends that might be ok in metagames where people are trying to get Primarines to work?

Those Mutilators we're maybe going to put in a Land Raider in the odd friendly game because they're cool models?

Those Plague Toads that actually look pretty good?

They all just got a fair bit scarier...

...very tempting to drop in a bunch of Nurgle characters T1, get some kills done, and then summon Scabieathrax right in the enemy's face.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Also, what are we thinking of the Death Guard PlagueBurst Crawler? Rules haven't been leaked yet but we have images:

Looks like I will finally get some fun long range. Looks like some kind of flamer side weapons and a multi blight launcher in the front? I'm excited about it

Is there anything preventing this ploy:
- Plasma Chosen unit & Lord lands in a Dreadclaw, unleashes dakka
- Next turn, Chosen & Lord jump back aboard (perhaps Falling Back to do so) and flips off the melee units trying to engage them; Dreadclaw flies up to some units, burns them, charges one
- Next turn, Chosen jump back out again, unleash dakka. Dreadclaw smugly floats off to torch more heathens

I'm not suggesting it as a standard tactic, just checking if it's on the table when circumstances suggest it. If it is... Icon of Excess? Be handy if we get charged by loyalists.

Also, adding Kharybdis on the list of things that might be fun to cast Warptime on after deepstriking. Unless it just dropped off a score of Berzerkers, of course.

On the subject of deepstriking units, I'm seeing chatter elsewhere about using Drop Pods, even empty ones, to establish overlapping 9" dropzone denial. I don't think we can easily (or should even attempt to) copy this verbatim, given Dreadclaws cost twice as much as DPs and have very different capabilities, but we should be aware of it. I think it might backfire on the corpse-lovers; it could give Bikers, Spawn, Raptors something to charge on turn one, that can't Fall Back and expose them to fire.

Best case scenario, but not easily stage-managed: we shoot up the DPs enough that the charging troops knock them to 1W, then kick them over in the enemy assault Phase. Wham, their blocking unit becomes a speed ramp, welcome back to 3ed overrun hell.

Best feasible scenario: Plasma Nurgle Raptors get to jump forwards, take some shots at something, and then jump into a safe combat. Next turn, Fall Back and take more shots (yay Fly) whilst getting within 3" of enemies and making spooky noises whilst waving the Banner of Despair.

So yeah, think there might be an argument to deploy shooty Raptors if we see lots of DPs?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Is there anything preventing this ploy:
- Plasma Chosen unit & Lord lands in a Dreadclaw, unleashes dakka
- Next turn, Chosen & Lord jump back aboard (perhaps Falling Back to do so) and flips off the melee units trying to engage them; Dreadclaw flies up to some units, burns them, charges one
- Next turn, Chosen jump back out again, unleash dakka. Dreadclaw smugly floats off to torch more heathens

Per the rules, if you fall back you have to end up at least 1" away from the enemy. To embark on a transport, all units have to end their turn within 3" of the vehicle. As long as you can manage both of those, I don't see anything that prevents you from embarking after a fall back move.

And I don't see anything that prevents a transport from moving after you load up, so it can certainly go fire its weapons. If you go charge an enemy with it however, they may be able to position themselves so keep you from deploying. When you deploy, all models have to be within 3" of the transport and not within 1" of the enemy. Any that can't do that are immediately slain. So you'd want to be careful who you charge I guess, and make sure there isn't enough of them to block your deployment.

I wish there was an option besides Abaddon to get rerolls, anyone have any ideas? Im trying to get around Defilers BS of 4+

 Insectum7 wrote:
I wish there was an option besides Abaddon to get rerolls, anyone have any ideas? Im trying to get around Defilers BS of 4+

Oddly enough Kharn.

Malifice wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I wish there was an option besides Abaddon to get rerolls, anyone have any ideas? Im trying to get around Defilers BS of 4+

Oddly enough Kharn.

Just in cc though, right? Id look, im just away from codex right now.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Malifice wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I wish there was an option besides Abaddon to get rerolls, anyone have any ideas? Im trying to get around Defilers BS of 4+

Oddly enough Kharn.

Just in cc though, right? Id look, im just away from codex right now.

Nope, any hit rolls for WEs within 1"

Ohhh.... riiight.... i think i saw the 1" and chalked it up to "limited" and never thought about it again. Interesting. I guess i could mash 3 Defilers around him, doesnt seem like a good long term plan though. Abaddons got a bigger spere of influence and also grants immunity to morale. Expensive Abaddon or 1" limit Kharn... and I dont think I could bring myself to hang Kharn in the back to babysit heavy support.

Hmm, well Abby's sphere could also reach a Havoc squad or two, maybe some Oblits. It'd make for a compact firebase, which is only an issue when a Deathstrike is in play (though this amount of gun has a decent chance of taking one out?) - and Abaddon + Defilers make for a pretty tasty counter to enemy assault units who get past the Cultist screen (who will benefit from morale immunity). With decent conga lining and vertical unit coherency being 6", his re-rolls can cover a lot of ground.

I'd be inclined to add a mobile Sorcerer to that setup, both for DTW and a possible Warptime on Abaddon when he's needed to punch something.

You could throw people off by deploying Abaddon third from last, and then putting a Terminator Lord in the Teleportarium with a Terminator squad. They'll be expecting him to be accompanying the Termies, who assuming lots of Plasma only really need re-rolls of 1's.

 lindsay40k wrote:
. . .the Cultist screen (who will benefit from morale immunity). . .

Huh. You know that didn't even occur to me. I wonder how many cultists I have lying around. . .

But yeah, I've just finished up 3 Defilers, 2 squads of havocs and a Predator, and I'll be experimenting a bit with a firebase army.

Be advised - if you're playing Imperium on a dense urban board, a squad on the roof of a three story building can have a squad of Reivers grab-chute in directly beneath them, and then use their grapnels to make a charge that can't fail - and likely won't be even visible for overwatch. So, make sure some Cultists or Mutants or Poxwalkers are covering your footprints.

Man. Those guys are more Batman than the Night Lords.

New FAQ confirms that Faction Keywords are also general Keywords; Possessed are (deity) Daemon units, and can benefit from buff and spells from (deity) Heralds, GD, etc

Nurgle players who invested in Obliterators to enjoy T5 and FNP - by adding Epidemius you can return them to glory. Also, Heldrakes, FMfiends, Warp Talons, and Daemon Cavalry characters benefit from this. Probably some FW CSM stuff, too.