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 DarknessEternal wrote:
Start winning some games with them. Describe those games. Convince people with your data.

Smaller 500pt games played against AM Infantry lists with flames, mortars and lascannons being the special weapons, lasguns or anything without an AP, even flames with auto hits is going struggle to remove even a squad of 5 from cover. I was absorbing fire from 3 or 4 infantry squads a turn and lost on at most Scorpion a turn. Not an optimal guard list but it did its job and won on the objective one game and lost on another.

This can be replicated in bigger games by positioning the Scorpions well and providing better targets for the enemies special weapons to fire on.

 Korlandril wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Start winning some games with them. Describe those games. Convince people with your data.

Smaller 500pt games played against AM Infantry lists with flames, mortars and lascannons being the special weapons, lasguns or anything without an AP, even flames with auto hits is going struggle to remove even a squad of 5 from cover. I was absorbing fire from 3 or 4 infantry squads a turn and lost on at most Scorpion a turn. Not an optimal guard list but it did its job and won on the objective one game and lost on another.

This can be replicated in bigger games by positioning the Scorpions well and providing better targets for the enemies special weapons to fire on.

I can second the effectiveness of striking scorpions. Soulburst makes them even more viable. And korlandril is right about sticking them in or near some cover. They can tear units up with that +1 to hit, and they have great synergy with d-scythe guard and fire dragons. They make a really good clean up unit to finish off enemy units and gain board control.

Remember Ynnari will not have Opsec when the New book Chapter Review , is released - remember that when your list building !

zeedneti wrote:
Remember Ynnari will not have Opsec when the New book Chapter Review , is released - remember that when your list building !

Why's that?

zeedneti wrote:
Remember Ynnari will not have Opsec when the New book Chapter Review , is released - remember that when your list building !

We don't know for sure how ObjSec is being implemented in 8th. The SM version gives it to Troops in Space Marine Detachments in a Battleforged army. Eldar might get it for any Aeldari detachment in our Codex. As for Chapter Approved, we don't know what it will say yet but the way the announcement was worded made it seem like all Troops in Battle Forged armies would get.

Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

Has anyone had any luck against the power astra militarum list? Dropping plasma scions, hidden artillery, and all the conscripts?

 GreaterGood? wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against the power astra militarum list? Dropping plasma scions, hidden artillery, and all the conscripts?

Thats the hardest matchup for Aeldari right now. I tried everything with no success. If the IG adds Celestine to the mix you have absolutely no chance.

 Karhedron wrote:

zeedneti wrote:
Remember Ynnari will not have Opsec when the New book Chapter Review , is released - remember that when your list building !

We don't know for sure how ObjSec is being implemented in 8th. The SM version gives it to Troops in Space Marine Detachments in a Battleforged army. Eldar might get it for any Aeldari detachment in our Codex. As for Chapter Approved, we don't know what it will say yet but the way the announcement was worded made it seem like all Troops in Battle Forged armies would get.

Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

ObjSec currently applies to all Troops choices per the latest FAQ/Chapter Approved.

Is there a reason it wouldn't apply to Ynnari?

That said, most people currently don't take too many troops - right? Maybe this'll lend a little weight to taking a unit or two, as a backup objective contestor.

FLG put up a list of what factions get Obsec which is apparently based on what will be in the Chapter Approved book. A pure Craftworld (Asurani) faction Keyword detatchment gets it but if you add a Ynnari HQ they don't have the Asurani keyword so you lose Obsec.

You can't be Ynnari without one of the Ynnari Characters.

However there are ways around it. My current list is Ynnari and has a Battalion detachment and a Vanguard Detachment. By making Yvraine the HQ for the Vanguard, that detachment does not get Obsec, but it has no troops in it so it doesn't matter. My troops are all in the battalion detachment with a farseer and autarch as the HQs so get to be Obsec. Everything is still Ynnari as Yvraine is the warlord.

Example of the list:

fe40k wrote:

ObjSec currently applies to all Troops choices per the latest FAQ/Chapter Approved.

Please provide a link to this latest FAQ.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
FLG put up a list of what factions get Obsec which is apparently based on what will be in the Chapter Approved book. A pure Craftworld (Asurani) faction Keyword detatchment gets it but if you add a Ynnari HQ they don't have the Asurani keyword so you lose Obsec.

You can't be Ynnari without one of the Ynnari Characters.

However there are ways around it. My current list is Ynnari and has a Battalion detachment and a Vanguard Detachment. By making Yvraine the HQ for the Vanguard, that detachment does not get Obsec, but it has no troops in it so it doesn't matter. My troops are all in the battalion detachment with a farseer and autarch as the HQs so get to be Obsec. Everything is still Ynnari as Yvraine is the warlord.

Example of the list:

Spoiler:

Vanguard Detatchment:

Yvraine (warlord)

5x Fire Dragons
5x Fire Dragons
5x Flamer Wraithguard

Wave Serpent
Wave Serpent

Battalion Detacment:

Farseer
Autarch Skyrunner

5x Dire Avengers
5x Dire Avengers
10x Dire Avengers

Wave Serpent
Wave Serpent

Hemlock Wraithfighter

It's all Ynnari and all the troops have Obsec.

Does this work?

I thought you had to have a Ynnari as an HQ in the detachment for it to become Ynnari.. so detachment based not army based.

 GreaterGood? wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against the power astra militarum list? Dropping plasma scions, hidden artillery, and all the conscripts?

Hmm, Wave Serpents are a good start against the Plasma Scions since the field basically makes overcharging worthless.

Striking Scorpions popping up all over the place to threaten artillery units and cowering Commisars seem like a good idea.

Doom and lots of Guardian Defenders are probably the best I can suggest as they will shred conscripts faster than Conscripts can damage them but a battle of attrition is not exactly a great plan for Eldar.

 Karhedron wrote:
t a battle of attrition is not exactly a great plan for Eldar.

Sure it is, Eldar are a horde army now.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
t a battle of attrition is not exactly a great plan for Eldar.

Sure it is, Eldar are a horde army now.

Do you actually think so? hordes of guardians? I've been hearing most people succeeding with wave serpent spam, and wraiths.

 GreaterGood? wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
t a battle of attrition is not exactly a great plan for Eldar.

Sure it is, Eldar are a horde army now.

Do you actually think so? hordes of guardians? I've been hearing most people succeeding with wave serpent spam, and wraiths.

Wave Serpents gotta come from somewhere, Guardians are the most cost effective thing to go with em.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
FLG put up a list of what factions get Obsec which is apparently based on what will be in the Chapter Approved book. A pure Craftworld (Asurani) faction Keyword detatchment gets it but if you add a Ynnari HQ they don't have the Asurani keyword so you lose Obsec.

You can't be Ynnari without one of the Ynnari Characters.

However there are ways around it. My current list is Ynnari and has a Battalion detachment and a Vanguard Detachment. By making Yvraine the HQ for the Vanguard, that detachment does not get Obsec, but it has no troops in it so it doesn't matter. My troops are all in the battalion detachment with a farseer and autarch as the HQs so get to be Obsec. Everything is still Ynnari as Yvraine is the warlord.

Example of the list:

Spoiler:

Vanguard Detatchment:

Yvraine (warlord)

5x Fire Dragons
5x Fire Dragons
5x Flamer Wraithguard

Wave Serpent
Wave Serpent

Battalion Detacment:

Farseer
Autarch Skyrunner

5x Dire Avengers
5x Dire Avengers
10x Dire Avengers

Wave Serpent
Wave Serpent

Hemlock Wraithfighter

It's all Ynnari and all the troops have Obsec.

Does this work?

I thought you had to have a Ynnari as an HQ in the detachment for it to become Ynnari.. so detachment based not army based.

Yes this works. You have to have a Ynnari Warlord (Not HQ) to be a Ynnari army. It's army based not detachment based. Otherwise you could only ever field one Ynnari detachment as there is only one Warlord.

The Ynnari faction Keyword is not on the list of faction keywords that provide Obsec, but Asuryani is, so don't put your troops in the same detachment as Yvraine/Yncarne/The other bloke you will never take.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Karhedron wrote:

 GreaterGood? wrote:
Has anyone had any luck against the power astra militarum list? Dropping plasma scions, hidden artillery, and all the conscripts?

Hmm, Wave Serpents are a good start against the Plasma Scions since the field basically makes overcharging worthless.

Striking Scorpions popping up all over the place to threaten artillery units and cowering Commisars seem like a good idea.

Doom and lots of Guardian Defenders are probably the best I can suggest as they will shred conscripts faster than Conscripts can damage them but a battle of attrition is not exactly a great plan for Eldar.

There is sadly no efficient way to kill conscripts.

If the Guard player has enough to bubble wrap his artillery, and positions them so that deepstriking units can't sneak in, and Fly units can't jump over, it's a very tough fight.

Wave Serpents that advance with vectored engines (-1 to hit and -1 damage) are very resistant to both plasma Scions and most artillery (they tend to do D3 damage I think) but anything that disembarks is going to do very little to the conscripts and get wiped out by the Scions/artillery.

Anything that's not an a Wave Serpent or a Hemlock with Conceal is going to lose horribly in a firefight with a good IG list- you might do OK if you go first with a lot of ranged anti-tank.


So what to do? Well, assuming you have a list with a lot of serpents there are a few things you can try:

- Assassinate the Commissar- Rangers and Illic might work if you have them but most lists don't. Failing that you need the guard player to brain fart and leave enough space around the Commissar for you to land a Hemlock or a Autarch Skyrunner next to him. The Autarch has a better chance due to being smaller and being able to wiggle in with some cheeky assault and pile in moves, but he will need a double move from Yvraine casting WotP, which would require her to disembark and be screened by Serpents. A lot needs to go right for you here lol.

- Assault the Conscripts with the serpents- If the Conscripts are deployed in a tight bubble wrap to prevent anything landing behind them, a mass Serpent assault might not leave them enough room to fall back.

Both of these are avoided by a clever Guard player not leaving any space behind the screen, and spacing the models in the screen out enough that there is room to fall back by bunching up.


Things that don't require the Guard player to slip up:

-Grab Objectives- If the IG are castled up and you're playing a mission with progressive scoring then the Wave Serpents may survive long enough to score a load of points. Scions are pretty good at grabbing objectives, if they don't blow themselves up overcharging at serpents, though.

-Get your Psykers out and try and do some damage with the serpent weapons- A Farseer and/or Yvraine could stand in the middle of the board being screened from shooting and deepstrikers by Serpents. Guide, Doom and Ancestors grace can buff the Serpents shooting (assuming they have Shuri-cannons so they can advance and fire), and you might be able to snipe a Commissar with Gaze of Ynnead.


That's all I can think of and it doesn't seem enough. Mostly it requires the Eldar to play flawlessly and the Guard to play badly.

 GreaterGood? wrote:
Do you actually think so? hordes of guardians? I've been hearing most people succeeding with wave serpent spam, and wraiths.

That's how I have been playing so far and it works very well. Add a sprinkling of Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers, a Hemlock for air superiority and a Farseer for some psychic support and you are good to go.

It could get boring as it doesn't leave much variety once you get to 2000 points. Also I think it might struggle against horde armies (particularly conscript spam). I have mostly played against Marines so far where the above list goes though power armour like vindaloo through a short Granny.

The solution to Conscripts in particular is to snipe the Commisars with Word of the Phoenix during the Psychic phase. The restriction on targeting characters only applies during the Shooting Phase. This was confirmed in one of the FAQs (Stepping Into a New Edition) on the GW Community page. Yvraine standing next to a set of Reapers can tear apart anything that doesn't have a great invulnerable save. If you're afraid that your opponent will get wise to this and try to hide their commisar fully outside line of site you can take a Reaper Launcher on the Dark Reaper Exarch which can ignore LoS.

This doesn't solve Boyz or Brimstones specifically, but they don't seem to be as big of an issue as Guard blobs.

Which is the weakness of the Conscripts...

Without an Officer to give orders the Conscript unit is far less dangerous (so no more FRFRRF, or extra run moves) and will not get the order to withdraw from combat and be able to shot if you have charged them with a Serpent.

No Commissar, then no 1 wound on the break test and Conscripts start to melt away.

A large unit of Eldar Rangers in cover can remove one or the other (Officer or Commissar) fairly quickly and when they do most Guard players will try and get rid of those Rangers as quickly as they can...which often means that the Conscripts are drawn with them and away from what they were defending. I would target the Junior Officer if given a choice, as removing the Orders is the quickest way to reduce a Conscript unit's effectiveness.

My two cents,

CB

I'm a little late here but I also use Scorpions - I've used them in every game so far and it was difficult at first.

Like others have said: Putting them in cover is the best option. I use 10 to sit on an objective, and sometimes I won't even place them on the board until late game. By then they can be relied upon to hold it and kill most of the things that come too close.
They're not brilliant or flashy, but they are a solid choice and they do win me games.

I'm not super impressed by any of our troops choices, has anyone tried using the Corsairs troops from the Forgeworld index? seems like guardians, but with more special weapons.

 GreaterGood? wrote:
I'm not super impressed by any of our troops choices, has anyone tried using the Corsairs troops from the Forgeworld index? seems like guardians, but with more special weapons.

They have to pay 2 points for their pistols and so end up being stupidly expensive, plus they have no transport options.

Basic_ wrote:
The solution to Conscripts in particular is to snipe the Commisars with Word of the Phoenix during the Psychic phase. The restriction on targeting characters only applies during the Shooting Phase. This was confirmed in one of the FAQs (Stepping Into a New Edition) on the GW Community page. Yvraine standing next to a set of Reapers can tear apart anything that doesn't have a great invulnerable save. If you're afraid that your opponent will get wise to this and try to hide their commisar fully outside line of site you can take a Reaper Launcher on the Dark Reaper Exarch which can ignore LoS.

This doesn't solve Boyz or Brimstones specifically, but they don't seem to be as big of an issue as Guard blobs.

Based on the way that Word of the Phoenix and soulburst is worded, I don't believe you can target characters.

As the units may shoot as if it were the shooting phase, which means the same restrictions would apply.

Please look at the Word of the Phoenix power as well as the Soulburst ability.

How are people feeling about squadrons of Forge World Hornets? I've played a couple of matches using them and feel that they're rather effective targets for buffs.

How do they stack up to units with similar roles, such as Vypers?

Thus far ive only been using the Hornet Pulse weapons, and feel satisfied with their performance against MEQ's and vehicles. Sadly I havent gotten the chance to try them against their preffered target, TEQ's.
Sticking Vector Engines on Hornets with Shuricannons would be some relatively cheap, tough units to take down. Hornets rule of Lightning Assault with Vector Engines gives the enemy a -2 modifier To Hit if the Hornets advance.

Basic_ wrote:
The solution to Conscripts in particular is to snipe the Commisars with Word of the Phoenix during the Psychic phase. The restriction on targeting characters only applies during the Shooting Phase. This was confirmed in one of the FAQs (Stepping Into a New Edition) on the GW Community page. Yvraine standing next to a set of Reapers can tear apart anything that doesn't have a great invulnerable save. If you're afraid that your opponent will get wise to this and try to hide their commisar fully outside line of site you can take a Reaper Launcher on the Dark Reaper Exarch which can ignore LoS.

This doesn't solve Boyz or Brimstones specifically, but they don't seem to be as big of an issue as Guard blobs.

Could you please post a link to the above mentioned FAQs? Can't find it anywhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captain Brown wrote:
Which is the weakness of the Conscripts...

Without an Officer to give orders the Conscript unit is far less dangerous (so no more FRFRRF, or extra run moves) and will not get the order to withdraw from combat and be able to shot if you have charged them with a Serpent.

No Commissar, then no 1 wound on the break test and Conscripts start to melt away.

A large unit of Eldar Rangers in cover can remove one or the other (Officer or Commissar) fairly quickly and when they do most Guard players will try and get rid of those Rangers as quickly as they can...which often means that the Conscripts are drawn with them and away from what they were defending. I would target the Junior Officer if given a choice, as removing the Orders is the quickest way to reduce a Conscript unit's effectiveness.

My two cents,

CB

I have tryed this. I dropped 5 rangers + Ilic Nightspear in a 2000pt list for whooping 183 pts in total (100 rangers + 83 Illic). They did the job quite well, killed Commissar+ Commander in 2 turns. But they were a primary target for all the duration of the match, and were dead by turn 3.

A single 5-man unit of rangers won't have enough power to kill all officers and will die as flyes.

Hey all,

I'm considering potentially starting an Eldar army, so 2 questions for you

1): what's the play style of eldar? Especially with regards to this edition.

2): how are Eldar fairing these days?

FarseerReborn wrote:


I have tryed this. I dropped 5 rangers + Ilic Nightspear in a 2000pt list for whooping 183 pts in total (100 rangers + 83 Illic). They did the job quite well, killed Commissar+ Commander in 2 turns. But they were a primary target for all the duration of the match, and were dead by turn 3.

A single 5-man unit of rangers won't have enough power to kill all officers and will die as flyes.

You have achieved the object...
Once the Commissar is dead the Conscripts will lose models to moral checks and will be losing extra models from your fire.
More importantly, once the Officer is dead no more orders (Conscripts cannot get a Vox)...which makes Conscripts a large mass that if charged by a Wave Serpent or something with good armor saves stuck unless they withdraw (and now cannot fire without orders) and get charged again the next turn. I have always targeted the Officers first to remove orders, as Guard players doing Conscript spam tend to have two Conscript units supported by a single Senior Officer (as a unit can only receive one order per turn).

Hopefully your Rangers were in cover, 24+ inches away, and drew allot of attention and fire from the Guard players long range weapons and thus not shooting at your other units that would have otherwise been taking that fire.

You are entirely correct that Rangers are fragile...but it is one of the few options Eldar have to make Conscripts the weak and cowardly troop choice they really are.

Good hunting,

CB

FarseerReborn wrote:

Basic_ wrote:
The solution to Conscripts in particular is to snipe the Commisars with Word of the Phoenix during the Psychic phase. The restriction on targeting characters only applies during the Shooting Phase. This was confirmed in one of the FAQs (Stepping Into a New Edition) on the GW Community page. Yvraine standing next to a set of Reapers can tear apart anything that doesn't have a great invulnerable save. If you're afraid that your opponent will get wise to this and try to hide their commisar fully outside line of site you can take a Reaper Launcher on the Dark Reaper Exarch which can ignore LoS.

This doesn't solve Boyz or Brimstones specifically, but they don't seem to be as big of an issue as Guard blobs.

Could you please post a link to the above mentioned FAQs? Can't find it anywhere.

FAQ Page The bottom PDF is called Stepping Into A New Edition. I don't know why it isn't labeled as an FAQ, but it's the exact same format as one.

The pertinent passage:
Q: When can I target an enemy Character that has a Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
A: Such a Character can only be targeted in the Shooting phase if it is the nearest visible model to the firing model. You can target enemy Characters without restriction in the Psychic phase*, Charge phase, Fight phase, etc. You may also make shooting attacks at enemy Characters which occur outside the Shooting phase (i.e. when resolving overwatch in the Charge phase).

People can interpret that and dissect the semantics if they wish.

Basic_ wrote:

FarseerReborn wrote:

Basic_ wrote:
The solution to Conscripts in particular is to snipe the Commisars with Word of the Phoenix during the Psychic phase. The restriction on targeting characters only applies during the Shooting Phase. This was confirmed in one of the FAQs (Stepping Into a New Edition) on the GW Community page. Yvraine standing next to a set of Reapers can tear apart anything that doesn't have a great invulnerable save. If you're afraid that your opponent will get wise to this and try to hide their commisar fully outside line of site you can take a Reaper Launcher on the Dark Reaper Exarch which can ignore LoS.

This doesn't solve Boyz or Brimstones specifically, but they don't seem to be as big of an issue as Guard blobs.

Could you please post a link to the above mentioned FAQs? Can't find it anywhere.

FAQ Page The bottom PDF is called Stepping Into A New Edition. I don't know why it isn't labeled as an FAQ, but it's the exact same format as one.

The pertinent passage:
Q: When can I target an enemy Character that has a Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
A: Such a Character can only be targeted in the Shooting phase if it is the nearest visible model to the firing model. You can target enemy Characters without restriction in the Psychic phase*, Charge phase, Fight phase, etc. You may also make shooting attacks at enemy Characters which occur outside the Shooting phase (i.e. when resolving overwatch in the Charge phase).

People can interpret that and dissect the semantics if they wish.

From the Ynnari "strenght from death" rule:

"-The unit can shoot as if it were your Shooting phase, even if it Advanced or Fell Back this turn."

So, if word of the phoenix psychic power lets you make a single Strenght from Death action, and that action is shooting, then it will be "as if it was your shooting phase".

I think your interpretation is quite captious. (And I'm an Ynnari player)

While we are on the subject of soul burst. One of the options is to "attempt to manifest a psychic power, as if it was the psychic phase".

Say you cast Doom in your psychic phase. and now its the assault phase something dies and you decide to cast a power.

May you cast Doom again? Or does this follow the same restriction as your current turns psychic phase?