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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

Darsolan wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
I have been running 2 DDA and a 3 man squad of heavy destroyers for the last year and the heavy destroyers have been a very consistent element in my list every game. I kit bashed my DDA's and I am reticent to say I'll never assemble another, but it's probably the truth because those models are a real PITA but that forced me to use the heavy destroyers.

On paper you would think they would be fragile, but that unit is a real pain for my opponents. It is easily hidden and always gets a volley off, usually from cover, and it is WAY more consistent then the DDA's. They always have their 3 shots which reroll 1's naturally. If my normal unit of destroyers dies I can always use elimination protocols on them as well, which normally results in 3d6 damage on something.



Kind of blew me away here but I thought I was the only one running heavy destoyers. =D

Since the last CA my basic 2k list has been

2 Overloads
1 Cryptek
1 Lord

3x 10 Immortals

Nightbringer
10 S/B Lychguard

2x 4 Scarabs

2x 3 Heavy Destroters
2x DDA

I only really play with friends but I havent lost a game all year. The Heavy Destoyers are pretty tanky, assuming you deploy well, and generally get a kill a turn.

Right now I am thinking of getting another DDA or a blob of Flayed ones with the CA changes. I might changed to Stormlord as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
How your opponents fail to kill single soft target?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DogHeadGod wrote:
Put the doom croissants away and break out the premier Primaris killer + anti armor choice of the Necrons.. Tesseract Arks.

Seriously, why aren't these more of a thing? I just started running 3, with gauss cannon, and it's.. amazing.


Likely cash. Would have those if they weren"t so expensive. With sisters incoming doesn't look i'l' get them fast :( nor heavy destroyers. 9 costs 200e...ugh


Yeah its the same thing with sniper drones. I have a friend that takes 3x 9 and they are just deadly. But......they are expensive cash wise.
Yeah, my list has had a full unit of Heavy Destroyers plus a couple DDA's for quite some time too.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I used to run a Spearhead of ×3 3 Heavy Destroyers and Stormlord. Back when I completely misread the Strat for the additional MWBD and nobody else noticed, that was 9 Lascannons basically never missing and that's pretty cool.

Fix the Strat and I might do that again.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ro
Irked Necron Immortal




barontuman wrote:
the prevalence of them in the competitive meta makes it pointless to argue against. Maybe they don't work for you, or the lists you've come across, but look to the meta, it's a pretty good indication that if something is taken in 3s very commonly, it's going to be a pretty good unit.


Most of the meta copy what the successful lists do, to be fair. It's quite easy for good units to be overlooked, or units to be overepresented just because a few top players used them. Anyway, time will tell - let's see what Necron tournament lists look like in a few months time. Making good progress on my first heavy destroyer conversion made from Immortal Gauss Blasters.

   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




I'm looking forward to the changes. I've found that Wraiths were pretty decent when fielding 18 anyway.

My new list I'll be playing will be :
Spoiler:
Cryptek VOD & Chronometron
Destroyer Lord, Warscythe & Nanoscarab Casket
Overlord
3 Heavy Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
6 Wraiths
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
9 Scarabs
10 Scythe Guard


Basically turn one surround them with HtH units which are relatively hard to kill, while the HDs take back and midfield objectives. It's only got 5CP to play with, but it really doesn't rely on CP anyway. These are all my favorite units from previous editions and I'm glad to be putting them on the tabletop again. I don't think it'll be super competitive, but 18 wraiths always give my opponents fits, which makes it all worthwhile!

Of course it's the epitome of spam for this edition, but, you know, playing CC Necrons? Gotta give them some latitude.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 14:26:25


 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Giving opponents fits is one of the few joys we have left in the game,

Have an exalt, good sir!

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Eaton Rapids, MI

Novokh Wraiths and Scarabs are scary. Good luck! Your list doesn't specify a Code or WL trait, a DLord with the Nov Trait is great bumping everyone up with that many attacks. I've had some success with that in the past pre CA even.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




Yeah, it's going to be Novokh. It would be nice to get the HDs into Sautekh so that they can advance and still shoot at -1, but not really important.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/05 20:38:03


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.
   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.

My personal experience is that small squads of immortals give up their advantages in both res protocols and in MWBD. Which means that now both your HQs and your troops are simply tax as opposed to viable threats that have to be dealt with. YMMV.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




barontuman wrote:
wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.

My personal experience is that small squads of immortals give up their advantages in both res protocols and in MWBD. Which means that now both your HQs and your troops are simply tax as opposed to viable threats that have to be dealt with. YMMV.


Agree'd I would highly recommend taking full squads if you can. The only time I dont is if I am shaving points to fit 1 more thing in.

Paying for Reanimation and never being able to use it is really bad.
   
Made in au
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.


In this scenario I'd rather drop the 3 Dscythes and bump each Tesla unit to full 10 man for the same cost.

Since you're running Sautekh the scythes are better than what they normally are but in my experience never make their points in reality and the stratagem you want to them for is lackluster and can fail hard easily for such an investment in points and CP


"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning. There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.

To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot. And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle


5000 | 2800 | 1700 | 3600 | 2100 | 550

 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.


The HQ tax for 2 battalions is too much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 03:54:38


 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Darsolan wrote:
barontuman wrote:
wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.

My personal experience is that small squads of immortals give up their advantages in both res protocols and in MWBD. Which means that now both your HQs and your troops are simply tax as opposed to viable threats that have to be dealt with. YMMV.


Agree'd I would highly recommend taking full squads if you can. The only time I dont is if I am shaving points to fit 1 more thing in.

Paying for Reanimation and never being able to use it is really bad.


Is it really bad?

How many successful reanimation rolls do you make in a typical game of yours? If I win or loose, I make really few.

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




torblind wrote:
Darsolan wrote:
barontuman wrote:
wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.

My personal experience is that small squads of immortals give up their advantages in both res protocols and in MWBD. Which means that now both your HQs and your troops are simply tax as opposed to viable threats that have to be dealt with. YMMV.


Agree'd I would highly recommend taking full squads if you can. The only time I dont is if I am shaving points to fit 1 more thing in.

Paying for Reanimation and never being able to use it is really bad.


Is it really bad?

How many successful reanimation rolls do you make in a typical game of yours? If I win or loose, I make really few.


A surprising number to be honest. Enemies will almost always kill their priority targets, but they spare guns they have left is often only enough to plink off a few dudes. Getting them back is nothing to sniff at, and as the above said, you're paying for the ability, you might as well use it.

Also, I question double battalion because we don't really have enough good strats to justify it. Like you'll pop the D Scythe strat once and quantum deflection every turn in that list, but beyond that you only need a couple for rerolls.
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Eaton Rapids, MI

Double Battalion means 4 HQs and 6 Troops, probably our two worst slots with elites. If you're going for CP, why? Which strats are you needing 14 CP for? When people whine about our book, this is the exact problem: over priced HQs and troops with only really 2 niche strats that are used.

Skip it and lean into our strengths... Or at least not our clear weaknesses.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

1CP for reroll, 1CP reanimate killed character, 1CP quantum deflection, 1CP damage control override, 2CP methodical destruction, 1CP for removing cover bonus (huge against units who get +2), 1CP to charge after advancing, 1CP for MWBD twice, 1CP for self destruction of scarabs. That's already 10CP. Necrons can use 10+ CP, but the tax paying for it, isn't worth it.
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Eaton Rapids, MI

I'm specifically talking about Destroyer strat and ATD for the Scythes. I forgot about double MWBD because I don't play that much infantry and use Immotek. My command points are never an issue due to Immotek and regaining. I end up using most of my CP for rerolls, like number of shots on big cannons.

I think there are more ways to play Crons than just Doom/Doom/Destroy, but every time I've run troop heavy and bought into infantry, I know I am over paying for really no reason. Our troops are much easier to kill than plaguebears and cost so much more... And armies are set to handle 90 plaguebearers.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





IanVanCheese wrote:


...

... you're paying for the ability, you might as well use it.



You mileage is definitely allowed to vary in what reanimation gives you and not, but playing into it because you pay for it, is straight out wrogn.

You play into the strengths that are worth it. Fulfilling some half-measure design feature doesn't win you games. Winning games wins you games. That's your focus.

Being prepaid, it might come out as a strength that is worth it in the end for you, but its the wrong way to look at things.

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Don't you guys think Necrons will be a bit better now?

With the alpha strike meta of last year, necrons were useless, but now, after the CA and SM 2W meta, fights may be longer and necrons may have a place there.

Orks 2000p 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






barontuman wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
barontuman wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
How your opponents fail to kill single soft target?


I don't want to come smug here, but if your playing seasoned well rounded players,


Sorry, but you've been here long enough to know, that any time you pull the "playing against seasoned players" card, you're going to come off as smug. I could equally say that you simply don't have the practice/skill playing them, and it would be equally offensive.
It could also come down to the rest of your army composition, or perhaps the amount or style of terrain. All those are considerations. Honestly, it's not a given that using the strategem is always the right choice. Sometimes you'll do more damage just using the death rays. Forcing your opponent to change their play style is an advantage before you even set them on the table.

So you got suckered, it happens sometimes to the best of us, that doesn't change their effectiveness. DS are an excellent tool, and I as I said before, the prevalence of them in the competitive meta makes it pointless to argue against. Maybe they don't work for you, or the lists you've come across, but look to the meta, it's a pretty good indication that if something is taken in 3s very commonly, it's going to be a pretty good unit.


You had to clip the entire section I wrote justifying my statement in order to go on that rant

I never said DS were bad, in fact I still run a pair often for the reasons I have already stated, but in any tournament game I have played in the last year, that strat has only been a win more button on players who were already losing badly on match up (40k is still very rock, paper, scissors).

You said a viable tactic was corner deploying (often a solid idea) but then went on to say you would have the fliers mid table and or watch the other guy empty his army into one only to fail. This just doesn't hold up to my experience with 8th edition. It's awesome you play on tables that have so much LOS blocking terrain in the middle, even on good tables where I have played your lucky to get enough to block your infantry let alone 3 fliers. But, I really struggle to believe strong opponents and/or lists are failing to kill your Doom Scythes. Sure I believe it happens on occasion, but that's not a viable repeatable strategy, that's just hoping for the unlikely to happen.

You clearly have been on here long enough to know better then to play victim and ascribe offense where one was intended. You know I meant no offense because I specifically went out of my way saying so and justifying my position thoughtfully. BTW, when someone says they play in a tough area with seasoned players your the one assuming they mean that equals better or superior. Often times I wish I had more players around me that took the game more casually because that's generally more fun. I literally have a box of combat units I haven't used in over two years despite converting them carefully because they might as well not exist in the game beyond eating points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IanVanCheese wrote:
barontuman wrote:
the prevalence of them in the competitive meta makes it pointless to argue against. Maybe they don't work for you, or the lists you've come across, but look to the meta, it's a pretty good indication that if something is taken in 3s very commonly, it's going to be a pretty good unit.


Most of the meta copy what the successful lists do, to be fair. It's quite easy for good units to be overlooked, or units to be overepresented just because a few top players used them. Anyway, time will tell - let's see what Necron tournament lists look like in a few months time. Making good progress on my first heavy destroyer conversion made from Immortal Gauss Blasters.



Exactly, I played I guy with 3 DDA, 3 DS, 30 telsa immortals, 9 telsa TB, imotekh and an overlord. You know, the generic necron competitive net list. I had regular and heavy destroyers, 2 DDA and no doom scythes and I had second turn but I beat him because his list sucked against destroyers. Looking at what other successful players are playing is only part of the picture.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/06 13:42:44


   
Made in us
Freaky Flayed One




torblind wrote:
Darsolan wrote:
barontuman wrote:
wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.

My personal experience is that small squads of immortals give up their advantages in both res protocols and in MWBD. Which means that now both your HQs and your troops are simply tax as opposed to viable threats that have to be dealt with. YMMV.


Agree'd I would highly recommend taking full squads if you can. The only time I dont is if I am shaving points to fit 1 more thing in.

Paying for Reanimation and never being able to use it is really bad.


Is it really bad?

How many successful reanimation rolls do you make in a typical game of yours? If I win or loose, I make really few.


It's not that I make many, but that my opponent is generally forced into wiping out complete units with sub-optimum shots. Those last 2 immortals from a 10 man squad that were wiped out would not be a threat "now" but in 2 turns when they've re-animated twice? Well, I guess I better shoot my big guns at them instead of the destroyers . But mostly MWBD is fantastic. And if you're shooting at something that "must die", getting those extra hits with Methodical Destruction can be daunting to your opponent as well. I typically get ~20 wounds out of 20 shots when I go all out with tesla-Immortals like that. It's not common, but yeah, I've had squads reduce to 1 in turn one, fallen back to cover, then had them at full strength dishing out damage on the last turn. It's a viable threat that an opponent has to take seriously.
   
Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






wisetiger7 wrote:
Has anyone tried double batallion? I'm thinking about the following but I don't know if Necrons need the CP.
Imotekh, Lord with sword, Cloaktek, Chronotek
6x5 Teslamortals (one group with 7 to fill out points)
2 DDAs, 2 Tessarks, 3 DScythes.

Been playing it all year, 58 Immortals, Imotekh, Zahndrekh, Obyron, Overlord, 3 DDAs, Gauss Stalker. I'll either remove 2 Immortals and add Orikan or add 2 Immortals and some Scarabs or Teslablades to make up for pts reductions for the Stalker and HQs.

I don't think Crypteks are worth it in an Immortal list. Unless you already own two Tessarks I'd go with 3 DDAs, they're probably at least as good. The concept of your list is to me faulty, why do you need a second Battalion if you don't even want to focus on your Immortals? Do you need the extra 4-6 CP and get more efficient units and avoid being forced to take a Chronotek? Orikan is 5 more pts than a Chronotek, his 5+ invul aura is 6" and works in melee and he has a chance to get better stats, that's more than a bargain in my ears and I still don't think Orikan is amazing in an Immortal list.

I don't think our HQs are horrible any longer, except for Crypteks. Imotekh is amazing if you can roll well when it counts, Lords can't improve vehicles, but provided you have an infantry-centric list they are amazing, Overlords are only worth bringing with Teslamortals, but that combo is still strong. Crypteks are good if you are bringing an army that relies on Reanimation and ResOrbs are worth bringing a decent chunk of the time now, I'm part of the faction that thinks Reanimation is overrated, I prefer just focussing on the firepower of my Immortals and DDAs but Lords and Overlords are solid provided you build around them.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

I think if you are going to run immortals, you run 10 of them.
In a 'toys' list, you will want to run 3x5, leaving more space for other things.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 3500 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks everyone for your responses. I've been playing necrons for less than a year now, and in that time I've only played maybe 5-6 real games (the rest being apocalypse). So I'm still trying to figure things out. I did min units just to get the double battalion to have fun with CP. But it sounds like it isn't worth it. I usually run immortals at max squads, but have lately entertained the idea of min squads just for the CP tax. But I think I agree that max squads are better, both for force concentration of MWBD and for RP rolls to have a better chance to go off.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I think just one Battalion for the CP is fine, especially when Stormlord is already one of our best HQ dudes and he'll regenerate one a turn and gives one to begin with. With just another basic detachment that's 10, which will likely be fine.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in hk
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Had the most infuriating Reanimation the other day. 8 Reanimation rolls on 4+ for Tomb Blades. Very significant as it was turn 5 and a very close game. With 8 rolls.. only 1 came back... on a 4+. The game ended quickly after that.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think just one Battalion for the CP is fine, especially when Stormlord is already one of our best HQ dudes and he'll regenerate one a turn and gives one to begin with. With just another basic detachment that's 10, which will likely be fine.


I actually found it to be too many. Now I just take two specialized detachments since 6 CP is plenty, but I also stopped running troops for other reasons. Immortals are still solid and I used to run a battalion and had 10. I was really hoping crypteks would drop since I don't really want to take a 3rd HQ at the moment, somehow still 80 lol.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Red Corsair wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I think just one Battalion for the CP is fine, especially when Stormlord is already one of our best HQ dudes and he'll regenerate one a turn and gives one to begin with. With just another basic detachment that's 10, which will likely be fine.


I actually found it to be too many. Now I just take two specialized detachments since 6 CP is plenty, but I also stopped running troops for other reasons. Immortals are still solid and I used to run a battalion and had 10. I was really hoping crypteks would drop since I don't really want to take a 3rd HQ at the moment, somehow still 80 lol.

It's better to have it in case I would think.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




Crownworld Qarnac

Is there any scenario to ever take the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator relic or are we just gonna pretend it doesn't exist till our 2.0 dex? I really like the aesthetic and it was decently powerful in 7th but now I'm afraid that it really is what it seems like on the tin...a big pile of doo-doo water.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 20:52:16


Whew maybe I have gone off the rails.....


AngryAngel80 wrote:
So this poll reminds me of GW rule design, makes little sense, obviously was placed without any meaningful play testing and we're left waiting for a FAQ because right now the RAW crowd is using the open ended meaning to ruin everyones fun because we know how they intended W but we can't prove it with how it's written.
 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

 Mixzremixzd wrote:
Is there any scenario to ever take the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator relic or are we just gonna pretend it doesn't exist till our 2.0 dex? I really like the aesthetic and it was decently powerful in 7th but now I'm afraid that it really is what it seems like on the tin...a big pile of doo-doo water.


Only if you feel like necrons need a nerf
   
 
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