Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 skullking wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 skullking wrote:
I'm really pulling for a dragon at the end.

I think CMoN repeatedly said "No Dragons," which I never understood. Everybody wants Dragons.

I seriously don't understand the logic that they wouldn't want a dragon in the game. Unless they plan on having dragons the focus of a future KS, that would make sense I guess. I feel it needs some sort of REALLY big monster other than the snake demon lady thing.

B-holder!

Couple of things to consider.

First, they need to save some stuff for followup campaigns. They don't want to blow their fantasy load in the first campaign. I'm fairly content for them to leave some stuff for the future.

Second, the tiles don't really accommodate anything bigger. A dragon really wouldn't fit on any of the current tiles. We'd be limited to either a baby dragon or something dragon-like.

Tile size is interesting, because even if they added an impressive dragon that needed its own tiles, it would also need its own scenarios to ensure it spawns on the tiles it fits on.

First, a weak initial campaign means a weak follow-up campaign. It's not like there isn't plenty of other stuff to do. Including multiple flavors of dragon.

Second, the tiles are big enough for what appears to be a 75mm base. And it's not like they can't stand the model up. CMoN could easily do dragon the size of the snake-demon-lady -- just add wings!

What's interesting is that they are just completely ignoring what a lot of backers want.

This is hardly a weak campaign. And when I think dragon, I don't think small.

It's hardly setting the world on fire like BP did, and CMoN obviously assumed would happen. This might be the first Zombicide-related KS to pull less revenue than the previous Zombicide KS.

MD's not Zombicide though.

It has different mechanics.
It requires specialty dice.
It lacks the homage characters.
It is not a zombie apocalypse related game.
It exists in a niche with a lot more competition.
It is an unproven title.

MD was specifically marketed as a Zombicide-based game, to ride on the Zombicide wave.

Rather than to stand on its own like the Others or Blood Rage.

I don't see that.

Other than the art style being the same, there's no mention of Zombicide anywhere (until the add-on came about). There's no "celebrity" mimic heros, etc.

It's pretty much been marketed exactly the same way as Blood Rage was. It's pretty much a straight forward dungeon crawler.

Yeah, I haven't seen anywhere there's been comparison or marketing off the back of Zombicide, outside of fans stating it. They've been marketing it as its own game. The BP crossover stuff was very popularly requested, so they did it, but the campaign was well underway by then.

Heck, it didn't even have an undead faction in until the add-on popped up, nor did it say it was set in the same world.

Nope. The early marketing specifically called MD out as a Zombicide successor:

CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes’ actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.

Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.

Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!

That doesn't say what you are saying it does. They just said it uses the mechanics as a starting point. That is like saying the Infinity RPG is a successor to the Achtung! Cthulu RPG, or that the Conan RPG is a successor to the Infinity RPG because they built on the 2D20 system with each successive game.

Agreed. The rules were licensed out and edited into something new, but it was never marketed as a Zombicide.

I totally expected you guys to say that it wouldn't count.

And yet, by specifically saying it's based on Zombicide in the marketing, it's actually marketed under Zombicide.

Otherwise, they'd market it as an all-new game.

But you guys arguing a counterfactual?

No, they're saying they used it as a starting point for the mechanics. That's, like, what they stated. In writing. For English speakers to read. If they were marketing it as a zombicide game, they'd be doinw something more blatant like throwing the Zombicide label on the box above the Massive Darkness name, like they did with Black Plague.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I totally expected you guys to say that it wouldn't count.

And yet, by specifically saying it's based on Zombicide in the marketing, it's actually marketed under Zombicide.

No. It's not. At. All. There's no Zombicide iconography on the box just like this is on ALL THE OTHER ZOMBICIDE PRODUCTS.

Starting mechanics were copied. You drew all the wrong connections from there.

Moving on.

In other news, looks like we'll hit another stretch goal in about 12-16 hours and whisper will be ours! Yay!

Well, thanks to the majority of idiots in my country, it looks like I'll have to back out of this as it's price has just jumped through the roof. Not sure what the implications would be for shipping either, although I'd hope this would ship before we officially leave the EU. Urgh, rubbish day to be english

I'll have to wait and see how things stabilize by the end but I can see myself dropping it too

Same here. EU friendly should be fine still for this project with us as we will still be in the EU when it ships but I will have to think twice about backing any projects unless I am confident they will be delivered in time or they offer separate UK friendly shipping.

CMON used the Zombicide name to get some initial marketing benefit here, but they're not marketing Massive Darkness as a Zombicide game.

I hope the stretch goals past $1.93M (and it is funny to see something that is going to end up at $3M +/- labeled as 'disappointing'!) are a little more impressive.

Like, that start of a new enemy box!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It's hardly setting the world on fire like BP did, and CMoN obviously assumed would happen.

This is an incorrect assumption.

Hopefully the pound will stabilize before this is over.

Well I'm glad, according to cincy, that CMON is happy with how this is going. And i am too. But i dont feel the ambition and creativity of this campaign that the Zombicide ones had. Add ons were constantly introduced in previous campaigns that introduced new ideas, like archers and doors, new artistic styles, with the guest boxes, and all pulled together well in a relatively consistent visual way by the amazing sculptors employed. I dont just want freebie stretchgoals. I want to pay for addons. And it should be recognized that many of those paid addons were introduced independent of the stretchgoals. I dont know whether CMON built the development cost into the campaign plan and only published about the availability of an addon when certain totals were hit, or whether CMON planned to release them all along regardless of the total. But anyways, the addons really kept me excited in previous campaigns so the general lack here is just really recognizable. My two cents. I recognize not everyone (or anyone?) feels the same way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CMON went out on a limb for many of these addons and paid artists and sculptors probably months before. I just feel that they were a lot more cautious is all, and it's noticeable. I wish they'd been a bit more ambitious.

If they did guest/artist boxes for more (small) monsters i'd love it as I do think they need more of them to keep this as fun and fresh as it could be (especially if we don't get build your own rules)

but i'm far less interested in more heroes especially as paid add ons

I've got plenty of figures I can throw in as proxys if I want to change up the look of things, a few more archetypes (and their dashboards/rules) would be nice, but I don't feel that's where this is lacking

but we'll see in the next couple of weeks if either of us get what we want (and in my case if the pound stabilises enough to keep me in)

Same for me. I hadn't backed it yet but had been leaning towards doing so. Now I have to seriously rethink any KS that isn't UK-based.

Sorry for the money fluctuations for uk-based but us Canadians have seen our dollar go from being valued around $1US to anywhere around $0.70-0.75 with 1-2 years. $1 cdn used to be £0.75 but nowadays its £0.50. Such is the stupidity of currency markets and politicians who constantly tell us its great for the economy.

Im hanging around this campaign until the end before i decide if i want to pay $150cdn for the $120US base game.

Well the drop in the £ could hurt as well with making forgeworld stuff that much cheaper. I'm torn as this looks good, but not great, and CMON has other projects coming like chronicles of HATE.

 greywulf wrote:
Well I'm glad, according to cincy, that CMON is happy with how this is going. A.

Point of fact, the first day and overall estimates have all been outstripped or nearly outstripped.

Ratmen are in!

Ratmen!

That should get the total moving!

Nice, I do wish these things had more than one pose though, I like the idea of adding stuff for games like Kings of War but single pose hurts.

That said, very pretty. First add-on other than the BP one I'm interested in.