Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Regarding how allies will possibly work in an "AoSed" 40K, I am excited and hopeful for it. Here's my thinking:

When GW killed off WHFB, they split up most of the armies into multiple sub-factions, and mixed some elements up to make new factions (albeit some getting full support with others getting neglected for the past two years). For example:

- The three flavors of Elves (Wood Elf, High Elf, and Dark Elf) got split into 12 unique armies for purposes of alliances and allegiances.

- All the undead models (basically just Vampire Counts at this point) got split into 7 armies.

- Skaven got broken up into 6 different Clans.

- The Warriors of Chaos book models were spread across 9 factions(counting the leveled-up Archaon).

- Orcs & Goblins and Orge Kingdoms make up all 12 Destruction factions.

Granted, I do not expect GW to massively shake up the fluff for 40K like the transition from WHFB to AoS, but I could see them adding keywords to the various armies to allow for new combinations of allies in your armies. We have already seen this with the Gathering Storm books, as we got Detachments to field an all-Mechanicus army, an army made up of Astartes, Guard, Knights, and Sisters, and a combined Aeldari army of Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequins. Guilliman himself recognized a need to work with "friendly" factions against bigger threats, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", if you will. But he still know that the Aeldari would only help so long as it served their interests.

Looking back to Age of Sigmar (and D&D alignments too), each army has an end-goal in mind for how it behaves. You have factions of Builders (Order, Lawful), factions of Lawlessness (Destruction, Chaos, Evil, Neutral), factions of Corruption (Chaos, Evil, Lawful), factions of Anarchy (Destruction, Chaos, Chaotic, Neutral), and factions that sit somewhere in between there.

Basically, here's what I am thinking:

- Keywords will be added to each Codex and each unit option.

- Different sub-factions within the Codexes (Codices?) will have their own interactions and keywords to add in (SM Chapters. Craftworld, AM Regiments, Inquisitor Orders, Ork Clans, Tomb Worlds, etc.). Remember when Dark Angels and Space Wolves were just Allies of Convenience? I remember.

- Different alliances can be taken based on your primary army. Like, a primary GSC army can take Tyranid and Imperial Guard allies, but probably not Astartes (unless they somehow tricked them...).

- Different named Unique characters could modify how the alliances can work. How would taking Commissar Yarrick in your army affect its in game alliance with Orks? Right now, no effect.

I would like to see some more Necrons work alongside Space Marines to fight bigger threats. I would like to see if a GSC infected world can get Astartes assistance in battle against Chaos Marines. I would like to see Inquisitors making shady deals with Orks and Eldar (and maybe even Chaos Marines!) to get what they want. I know that there are some alliances that would NEVER happen in the fluff (Legion of the Damned, Officio Assassinorum, Tyranids, and Deathwatch come to mind). But I would like to see possibilities for some of the more extreme alliances happening on the tabletop.

The issue is not that Allies can be taken in the game, it's how the game can get broken based on unintended game mechanics interactions that get abused by tournament players. I have Forged the Narrative more in the past year than in my first 6 years as a wargamer because those cheesy WAAC combos drove me out of the tournaments into Kill Team and scenarios games with certain players, and I am thankful for it! Some of my most fun games have been in these narrative games, and I have gained several new friends from it too.

Age of Sigmar has several different ways to build your army and play your collection. You can take anything in Open Play, make stories in Narrative Play, or "balance" out the armies fighting with Matched Play. If I could have 40K took just one thing from Age of Sigmar, this would be it! I'm not worried about the rules, as they are just abstractions and dice mechanics. I am okay with memorizing charts or rolling fixed-values to determine in-game effects. The rules are not what make 40K the awesome game that it is, rather it is the models on the table and the setting in which they play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Dakka Flakka Flame
...
Then there's a faction that are piratey, looking to acquire loot and kill monsters. Like a cross between the Bonesplittaz and the Overlords (yeah, seriously!)

There kinda already is. The Free Bootaz, I believe (spelling?). Captain Badrukk and Flash Gitz are from this clan of Orks.

Yeah, between the different clans and all the ork content that has either been cut over the years or only appeared in the fluff or Gorkamorka I think there would be more than enough to make the orks their own stand alone faction.

I'm guessing that is true for the other xenos races as well, but I'm just not as familiar with them. The thing I'm a little worried about is that GW might consider seven different major factions to be too many and try to smash a bunch of the xenos together. I'm guessing they probably won't do that, but I'm a little nervous because I'm a little paranoid by nature.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

Ghorros wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Ghorros wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Personally I hope Abaddon/Guilliman smash the Imperium in two.
One dogmatic half with
Inquisition, SoB, Templars, Dark Angels, Mechanicus

one reasonable half with Ultras, Wolfes, Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Fallen

Both can take Imperial Guard of course.
It would take away from the bloat of imperial factions the game suffers from right now.

I'm not sure that the reasonable half is so reasonable. Guilliman was wounded by a Daemon weapon, lay in convalescence and then was resurrected by Xenos magic given by a nascent and growing Chaos God. It's not like the first time a Primarch was wounded by a Daemon weapon and laid in convalescence that things turned out so well.

This Primarch, who went through almost exactly what Horus went through PLUS the Xenos Chaos Deity thing, then immediately went to earth and took over before firing a bunch of people in charge and putting his own people in. And nobody said 'Hey, wait a minute... Horus pt. II - Don't you think we should clarify that you aren't a corrupted Daemonspawn first?"

Ok, a dogmatic part and an unreasonable part. As long as it's split up into two. The Imperium is really way too big as a faction, and it's making the entire game unwieldy to balance. Splitting it up would not only make handling the factions much more reasonable, it would also make for a really good storyline.

I do like this bit. I can't tell you how disappointed I am going to be if Karamazov shows up, high fives Guilliman and says "Let's get those Chaos boys now, woo!"

Matt Ward's treatment of The Gathering Storm factions bothered me a lot. It was like looking at melted wax statues of famous people - They were vaguely familiar, but completely different, grotesque caricatures. Except for the Inquisitor/Celestine scenes. Those were awesome.

Did Matt Ward actually write this?

Gee Dub don't actually put the author's names any more, but the sentence structure, ridiculously improbable scenarios and bad fan-fiction-esque feel to it makes me think he did. He did say Games Workshop brought him back. I find it hard to imagine any of their other authors writing this.

Compare the stories written to Draigo or his Space Marine codex fan-fiction stuff and you'll see the similarities in his descriptions.

The fact that there is work that authors refuse to put their name to is telling.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Dakka Flakka Flame

Well here's how they could get around that:

There could be a faction that's fully devoted to the Waaagh, and Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is the leader of it. In a way, it's like a combo of the Ironjawz and the Bonsplittaz.

Then there's another faction that mercenary. Fights in a very human way, with airstrikes and commandos. Killers for hire.

Then there's a faction that are piratey, looking to acquire loot and kill monsters. Like a cross between the Bonesplittaz and the Overlords (yeah, seriously!)

Then there's the feral orks left over on planets invaded beforehand.

There's four different style armies you could get for the Orks. Enough to make them a proper faction.

This seems like a good way to handle it. maybeeeee if GW resurrects da grot revolushun (they've brought back GSC, primarchs, imperial robots, and now Necromunda rules in shadow war Armageddon, so while it is unlikely it I can't write it off entirely) the grots can get a faction too!

What I want to see is the return of ork clans with more expanding on their lore, special rules, and new models for each clan. As the lore stands we'd need more models (both more warscrolls and because GW decided not to print rules for something they don't have a model for, more minis) for certain clans to be something more than "orks, but you spam the associated elites/FA/HS unit associated with them." As-is Blood Axes only really have the kommando and borrowed Imperium vehicles (which for many players is either what all orks do or a no-go due to lack of a GW conversion kit/model). Snakebites only have grots, Lobbas (again, the current model doesn't even work with the current fluff: IIRC there used to be a catapult Lobba but it's OOP), squiggoths (FW only), and a lack of Mek stuff (most of the current model range). Freebootas, who until 7e weren't really an independent clan-equivalent so they can kinda be discounted, have flash gits and Badrukk. And Deff Skulls just have Lootas, and the looted wagon (justifiably no model). If we can get all of them fluffed out as much as IG regiments, craftworlds, or SM chapters that would be great. If GW made clans fade into the background and did what Future War Cultist suggests, that would be understandable as there would be only 3-4 factions (I doubt feral orks are coming back. When did we see them last, Epic 40k? If anything they'll get rolled into Snakebites despite that making no sense, because GW doesn't like redundant or semi-redundant orks.) instead of 6+ factions.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Dakka Flakka Flame

Well here's how they could get around that:

There could be a faction that's fully devoted to the Waaagh, and Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is the leader of it. In a way, it's like a combo of the Ironjawz and the Bonsplittaz.

Then there's another faction that mercenary. Fights in a very human way, with airstrikes and commandos. Killers for hire.

Then there's a faction that are piratey, looking to acquire loot and kill monsters. Like a cross between the Bonesplittaz and the Overlords (yeah, seriously!)

Then there's the feral orks left over on planets invaded beforehand.

There's four different style armies you could get for the Orks. Enough to make them a proper faction.

Orks and the Tyranids are the NPC's for 40k.

There's no way they're going to put that much effort into Orks if the last couple years has been any indication.

They'd rather re-release a dozen more Space Marine books before they look at giving Orks another go at buffing mob rule to str 6.

@ BunkhouseBuster

I remember the Free Booterz. They should bring them back in force.

Part of the problem with the orks (not counting the rules) is you're kinda restricted to six colour schemes unless you go freeboota. They should try to shake that up a bit.

@ gnome_idea_what

I don't mind the Klans. It's just the colour scheme restrictions that bother me.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I just really hope the imperium of man is.... nerfed on allies. it is currently just ridiculous. oh look a libraries conclave with white scar bikers, dark angels terminators, iron hands cad for vehicles with iwnd and fnp troops. also we have terminators attached to the new GK guy so reroll saves and improve inv save by 1 so 2++ rerollable TH/SS out front.

How are you managing to fit that all into 1850 while simultaneously forgetting Space Marines somehow forget their Chapter Tactics when joined by different Chapters?

I am not fitting that into it, I am just stuck playing against such bs as it smashes my orks to bits

On top of forgetting the second part and not remembering that the Ork codex is the primary problem due to how gakky it's written?

And seriously? Complaining about Terminators?

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
I doubt feral orks are coming back. When did we see them last, Epic 40k? If anything they'll get rolled into Snakebites despite that making no sense, because GW doesn't like redundant or semi-redundant orks.)

There were feral orks in 3rd Ed. with Codex Armageddon. That was a long time ago, though, and they just had rules with no specific models.

I would really like to see them flesh out all of the clans plus the pseudo-clans like Freebootas and feral orks. Yeah, Rebel Grots would be pretty fun too, but I imagine that if they keep the allies chart around they would actually be Come the Apocalypse with Orks.

Not that this is a wishlisting thread for orks, but something else I think would be cool is if they brought Yoofs into 40k. Make regular boyz Strength 4, while Yoofs are S3 and WS3. This would allow them to make a new model line that doesn't invalidate the older boyz, and it also would allow them to make a smaller ork that makes the Space Marines look bigger without invalidating their existing models. Most importantly, it gets rid of the ork boyz being S3 nonsense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I don't mind the Klans. It's just the colour scheme restrictions that bother me.

It can still be fluffy to have multiple clans in one warband. Also, I always figured a person doesn't have to go ham with the colors. Like, Bad Moons could just have a few yellow dags rather than yellow everything, and I figure it wouldn't be that unusual for a Bad Moon to have a bit of blue or red here and there.

I might be remembering this wrong, but aren't there also a bunch of minor clans in addition to the six main ones?

Ghorros wrote:
I'm not sure that the reasonable half is so reasonable. Guilliman was wounded by a Daemon weapon, lay in convalescence and then was resurrected by Xenos magic given by a nascent and growing Chaos God. It's not like the first time a Primarch was wounded by a Daemon weapon and laid in convalescence that things turned out so well.

This Primarch, who went through almost exactly what Horus went through PLUS the Xenos Chaos Deity thing, then immediately went to earth and took over before firing a bunch of people in charge and putting his own people in. And nobody said 'Hey, wait a minute... Horus pt. II - Don't you think we should clarify that you aren't a corrupted Daemonspawn first?"

Exalted. Thank you for giving my GK a fluffy reason to back up my commitment to killing Guilliman every time I see him on the table.

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:

The issue is not that Allies can be taken in the game, it's how the game can get broken based on unintended game mechanics interactions that get abused by tournament players. I have Forged the Narrative more in the past year than in my first 6 years as a wargamer because those cheesy WAAC combos drove me out of the tournaments into Kill Team and scenarios games with certain players, and I am thankful for it! Some of my most fun games have been in these narrative games, and I have gained several new friends from it too.

I have pulled a complete 180 on my opinion of Forging, and completely agree with you. I came back to 40k 7th edition, from 2nd edition. I was quickly dragooned into going to tournaments by my local club, and had a great time doing local events. Then we started getting involved with the ITC, hosting ranted events, and traveling to further stores. Things got extreme fast, and the fun factor drained out of that competitive play. Even WAAC lists piloted by nice guys (and plenty aren't) are still unfun to play one after another. Couple that with bringing a WAAC list yourself to play at that level and even when you are winning, it is just a chore.
I have never found the writing of the novels or fluff sections of the rulebooks and codices to be very captivating, so I was never into the fluff very much, but knew the highlights. I was burnt out with the Tournament scene, and wanted a change, so I started looking at the Alter of War missions and other similar Missions in the Campaign books, and thought it would be fun to do some. My buddy and I ran the Tau Campaign missions and we had a riot. After that I wanted to do another Campaign style series, but there were sparingly few that included the Tau I could find. Another friend was playing Necrons, and he just said: "You should make them up yourself". Turns out I loved crafting custom missions, and that really dragged me into the fluff of our specific armies.
What I was really surprised to find out, was the game is great for that kind of play (for me). Sure it could be faster, or more balanced, but it was great and lead to some of the most entertaining moments of any games I've played. I am actually astounded at how much fun I was having, both on and off the table.
I have high hopes that 8th will be a good shakeup, but even if it is just a new mess, that makes different, equally unbalanced ruleset, with just as many WAAC exploits, I will play it just the same. I could due with a little less Epic scale in my 40k though. . .

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I just really hope the imperium of man is.... nerfed on allies. it is currently just ridiculous. oh look a libraries conclave with white scar bikers, dark angels terminators, iron hands cad for vehicles with iwnd and fnp troops. also we have terminators attached to the new GK guy so reroll saves and improve inv save by 1 so 2++ rerollable TH/SS out front.

How are you managing to fit that all into 1850 while simultaneously forgetting Space Marines somehow forget their Chapter Tactics when joined by different Chapters?

I am not fitting that into it, I am just stuck playing against such bs as it smashes my orks to bits

On top of forgetting the second part and not remembering that the Ork codex is the primary problem due to how gakky it's written?

And seriously? Complaining about Terminators?

when they don't scatter, show up turn 1 and drop 2 heavy flamers.. yea

and what about the second part am I forgetting? I don't like/ play much space marines. I have a ton of models of them but mostly just to paint. I know the basics of what their units do because I often play against them.

as for fitting into 1850 the "base" is 1240 points including tigarius, I fight it all the time

UM tigarius, 2 tac squads 305

white scars bike captain, 2x grav gun 3 mnan bike squads 266

dark angels baliel, deathwing w./ heavy flamer, 2x th/ss 1x lc, 1 scout squad 475

libraries conclave (iron hands for fnp)195

was unsure of points before doing on battlescribe but it has all the chapter tactics in there.

sometimes that gets changes up no ultramarines, cad is iron hands w/ a gorgon's chain chapter master on a bike.

I agree the ork codex is gak, but superfriends space marines is really annoying even when playing my other armies. Plus in fairness what other army will be allowed to do anything like this? can I choose to take some strong necron stuff with my eldar and ork stuff and use my powers to buff them and attach to eachother's squads?

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ BunkhouseBuster

I remember the Free Booterz. They should bring them back in force.

Part of the problem with the orks (not counting the rules) is you're kinda restricted to six colour schemes unless you go freeboota. They should try to shake that up a bit.

@ gnome_idea_what

I don't mind the Klans. It's just the colour scheme restrictions that bother me.

Easy fix: "Successor" Clans! Seriously, they are your models, paint them however you want! I have painted up thousands of points of Space Marines of various flavors in a custom color scheme. Turns out that it was a wise decision, as I really liked the current Chapter Tactics rules, and wanted to play Iron Hands and White Scars instead of Space Wolves. Aside from the Thunderwolves and Fenrisian Wolves, all the models jumped over without any complaints from anyone. Just got some orange-red Iron Hands with wolfy bling!

 Plainshow wrote:

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:

The issue is not that Allies can be taken in the game, it's how the game can get broken based on unintended game mechanics interactions that get abused by tournament players. I have Forged the Narrative more in the past year than in my first 6 years as a wargamer because those cheesy WAAC combos drove me out of the tournaments into Kill Team and scenarios games with certain players, and I am thankful for it! Some of my most fun games have been in these narrative games, and I have gained several new friends from it too.

I have pulled a complete 180 on my opinion of Forging, and completely agree with you. I came back to 40k 7th edition, from 2nd edition. I was quickly dragooned into going to tournaments by my local club, and had a great time doing local events. Then we started getting involved with the ITC, hosting ranted events, and traveling to further stores. Things got extreme fast, and the fun factor drained out of that competitive play. Even WAAC lists piloted by nice guys (and plenty aren't) are still unfun to play one after another. Couple that with bringing a WAAC list yourself to play at that level and even when you are winning, it is just a chore.

I have used those EXACT word before describing my tournament experiences: The games are a CHORE. With all the power combos out there, the many publications to keep up with, and the amount of models to have to buy to get to that level, it is no longer fun. I would get more enjoyment out of doing the dishes, because that means I at least had a home-cooked meal, you know?

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
@ Dakka Flakka Flame

Well here's how they could get around that:

There could be a faction that's fully devoted to the Waaagh, and Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka is the leader of it. In a way, it's like a combo of the Ironjawz and the Bonsplittaz.

Then there's another faction that mercenary. Fights in a very human way, with airstrikes and commandos. Killers for hire.

Then there's a faction that are piratey, looking to acquire loot and kill monsters. Like a cross between the Bonesplittaz and the Overlords (yeah, seriously!)

Then there's the feral orks left over on planets invaded beforehand.

There's four different style armies you could get for the Orks. Enough to make them a proper faction.

This seems like a good way to handle it. maybeeeee if GW resurrects da grot revolushun (they've brought back GSC, primarchs, imperial robots, and now Necromunda rules in shadow war Armageddon, so while it is unlikely it I can't write it off entirely) the grots can get a faction too!

What I want to see is the return of ork clans with more expanding on their lore, special rules, and new models for each clan. As the lore stands we'd need more models (both more warscrolls and because GW decided not to print rules for something they don't have a model for, more minis) for certain clans to be something more than "orks, but you spam the associated elites/FA/HS unit associated with them." As-is Blood Axes only really have the kommando and borrowed Imperium vehicles (which for many players is either what all orks do or a no-go due to lack of a GW conversion kit/model). Snakebites only have grots, Lobbas (again, the current model doesn't even work with the current fluff: IIRC there used to be a catapult Lobba but it's OOP), squiggoths (FW only), and a lack of Mek stuff (most of the current model range). Freebootas, who until 7e weren't really an independent clan-equivalent so they can kinda be discounted, have flash gits and Badrukk. And Deff Skulls just have Lootas, and the looted wagon (justifiably no model). If we can get all of them fluffed out as much as IG regiments, craftworlds, or SM chapters that would be great. If GW made clans fade into the background and did what Future War Cultist suggests, that would be understandable as there would be only 3-4 factions (I doubt feral orks are coming back. When did we see them last, Epic 40k? If anything they'll get rolled into Snakebites despite that making no sense, because GW doesn't like redundant or semi-redundant orks.) instead of 6+ factions.

You don't have to use specific models for specific factions. I would just have an equivalent for Chapter Tactics for Orks, call them Clan Cunnin' instead
Think about what you could have! I am not familiar with the fluff on specific Clans, but I know that they have preferred strategies, and different colors have different significance to Orks. How about one that gives them a bonus to Leadership? Another that encourages lots of Dreads and Kans? How about bonuses to Flyers and Deff Coptas? Or one that makes all the Orks in the army BS3? The possibilities are there to reflect the Clan Cunnin' in just a couple rules that can change how an army works.

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:
You don't have to use specific models for specific factions. I would just have an equivalent for Chapter Tactics for Orks, call them Clan Cunnin' instead
Think about what you could have! I am not familiar with the fluff on specific Clans, but I know that they have preferred strategies, and different colors have different significance to Orks. How about one that gives them a bonus to Leadership? Another that encourages lots of Dreads and Kans? How about bonuses to Flyers and Deff Coptas? Or one that makes all the Orks in the army BS3? The possibilities are there to reflect the Clan Cunnin' in just a couple rules that can change how an army works.

I like that units aren't specific to a clan even though each clan has a preference for certain units. This is before my time, but IIRC back in RT/2nd Edition certain units were clan specific. In 3rd Edition (when I started playing) they moved to having no clan-specific units, at least at first. Early 3rd edition actually kind of sucked unless you wanted to play Goffs. In later 3rd and in 4th they had rules allowing certain clans to take choices as troops, like Evil Sunz could have bikers as troops and Goffs could take skarboyz (or was it nobz?) as troops. I think that the Snakebites were the only clan with a specific unit (squiggoth). I might be remembering that all wrong, it was a long time ago.

I like the idea that anyone can take any unit as part of their clan, but it would be cool to see the clans distinguished in other ways. Like, anyone can take a squiggoth but the Snakebites can take it as a dedicated transport that doesn't use up a FoC slot. Or anyone can take bikers, but Evil Sunz can take them as Troops.

I think there are a lot of good ways this could be done. My personal preference is that different clans give different bonuses to the basic boyz, like you said with giving a certain clan a bonus to Leadership and whatnot. There's lots of ways that the different clans could give a small bonus to the boyz that would make them both effective on the tabletop and thematic with the army.

I was just browsing through the GW site for ideas on Ork factions. I could take the following:

Big and Small Meks with the guns
Shoota Boyz
Lootas
Burna Boys
Mek Gunz

and there's a faction who see 'Dakka' as the only way to Waaagh and so are obsessed with building the biggest guns out there. I think we could fit fliers in there too. A serious gunline ork army. And you can paint it in any colour you like.

Just a thought.

Kult of Dakka!

Edit: You kind of just described the Bad Moons though. But I think that the majority of ork players are really down with people coming up with their own stuff. That's part of what draws people to the orks in the first place. I would say do what you want and the chances of anyone giving you grief are tiny.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Kult of Dakka!

Edit: You kind of just described the Bad Moons though. But I think that the majority of ork players are really down with people coming up with their own stuff. That's part of what draws people to the orks in the first place. I would say do what you want and the chances of anyone giving you grief are tiny.

I'll admit that it's far from original yes.

Maybe the Bad Moons can be the poster boyz of the Dakka cult? Either way, they can play around with the Orks.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I think that the majority of ork players are really down with people coming up with their own stuff. That's part of what draws people to the orks in the first place. I would say do what you want and the chances of anyone giving you grief are tiny.

Of course, a fair chunk of that is because Orks are weak right now. Orks unbound? Go for it. IG unbound? Rock on! Old IG? Sure! Bring that underperforming stuff, as much as you like, I don't care. OTOH, flip that to start loading up on "OP" stuff, and everyone will be saying "uncool, back that up!".

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'll admit that it's far from original yes.

Maybe the Bad Moons can be the poster boyz of the Dakka cult? Either way, they can play around with the Orks.

I think that would work.

My understanding is that Kult of Speed armies can be from any clan, as most all orks like to go fast and feel the call to the Kult of Speed. Evil Sunz tend to like going fast more than other orks, so the majority of Kult of Speed armies tend to be made up of mostly Evil Sunz clan members.

Similarly most orks like big, noisy guns. Bad Moons just tend to like them even more than most orks (plus they have the teef to buy them and they like to show off). It would totally be fluffy to have more than one clan in your gunline army, or even to come up with your homebrew clan.

I'm working on a gunline Bad Moon ork army. It has a bunch of lootas. Lootas are more closely associated with Deff Skullz than Bad Moons, but I don't think anyone would blink at having a bunch of lootas being Bad Moons. I'm actually pretending that they are something like junior Flash Gitz, who have better guns than an average shoota boy but aren't yet the biggest and the shiniest like the Flash Gitz. I also want to make a Deff Skullz army that has a bunch of lootas that I'm going to kitbash using weapons that are more obviously stolen from non-orks, but to be honest that is a project that I haven't even started yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I think that the majority of ork players are really down with people coming up with their own stuff. That's part of what draws people to the orks in the first place. I would say do what you want and the chances of anyone giving you grief are tiny.

Of course, a fair chunk of that is because Orks are weak right now. Orks unbound? Go for it. IG unbound? Rock on! Old IG? Sure! Bring that underperforming stuff, as much as you like, I don't care. OTOH, flip that to start loading up on "OP" stuff, and everyone will be saying "uncool, back that up!".

I can see that happening. I actually feel a little bad for long-time Saim Hann players right now. If you don't want to be seen as a jerk getting your favorite units buffed beyond reason can actually be a bad thing.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I think that would work.

My understanding is that Kult of Speed armies can be from any clan, as most all orks like to go fast and feel the call to the Kult of Speed. Evil Sunz tend to like going fast more than other orks, so the majority of Kult of Speed armies tend to be made up of mostly Evil Sunz clan members.

Similarly most orks like big, noisy guns. Bad Moons just tend to like them even more than most orks (plus they have the teef to buy them and they like to show off). It would totally be fluffy to have more than one clan in your gunline army, or even to come up with your homebrew clan.

I'm working on a gunline Bad Moon ork army. It has a bunch of lootas. Lootas are more closely associated with Deff Skullz than Bad Moons, but I don't think anyone would blink at having a bunch of lootas being Bad Moons. I'm actually pretending that they are something like junior Flash Gitz, who have better guns than an average shoota boy but aren't yet the biggest and the shiniest like the Flash Gitz. I also want to make a Deff Skullz army that has a bunch of lootas that I'm going to kitbash using weapons that are more obviously stolen from non-orks, but to be honest that is a project that I haven't even started yet.

Come to think of it, both the Bad Moons and the Deathskullz would be good for this cult of dakka. In either case, I like the sound of your project!

Here we have the cult of speed, cult of dakka (stand in name), Ghazghkull's mobs (all hoards of boyz and big stomping machines), the mercenary forces (Blood Axes as the poster boyz) and then Snake Bite feral orks. There's five different greenskin factions right there.

I could see new factions being drawn up as just two, Order versus Destruction, to make it easy. I've also thought of a more clever grouping of factions similar to previously posted ones. Imperium, Chaos, Order, and destruction. But something different that I've been thinking of since the new gathering storm changes is that some of our familiar armies may split to have a good and bad side. For example Dark Angels splitting to having a loyalist and traitor component. Possibly some orks dedicating themselves to gods of chaos. Also the dark eldar splitting into pro-Ynnari(Order) and pro-Vect/commorragh(destruction?), but a twist in that the decadent commorrites, unrepentant of their carnal ways which had birthed the slaaneshi god, resort to seeking it's help and worshiping it to protect commorragh's power structure and way of life threatened by the ynnari, and actually end up joining chaos. I think someone almost touched upon this idea earlier.

So Order would have: Tau, Eldar, Ynnari, A component of friendly Necrons too presumably

Destruction would have: Orks, Tyrannids, Necrons, Harlequins (they are more of a chaotic neutral archetype, presumably those not aligned with the ynnari)

Chaos: CSM, Demons, Fallen Angels, Evil Dark Eldar, Chaos Orks

Imperium: Yea right

To explain these new groupings,

Order would be bound together by the common cause of creating order and stomping out threats to all civilized life, but don't want to be ruled by the imperium.

Destruction would be bound by the common cause of wanting to see the universe and the current civilized order of things burned to the ground, but don't like chaos.

That is the weirdest grouping I've ever seen.

..Wait Evil Dark Eldar? The ones that came through and absolutely shoved Daemons right back through the Gate Of Khaine?

You lot are clueless

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
That is the weirdest grouping I've ever seen.

..Wait Evil Dark Eldar? The ones that came through and absolutely shoved Daemons right back through the Gate Of Khaine?

No, I mean vect and his vassals. You know the one who opened the gate and let the demons in to destroy his rivals?

Tetsu0 wrote:
No, I mean vect and his vassals. You know the one who opened the gate and let the demons in to destroy his rivals?

When did he do that?

Tetsu0 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
That is the weirdest grouping I've ever seen.

..Wait Evil Dark Eldar? The ones that came through and absolutely shoved Daemons right back through the Gate Of Khaine?

No, I mean vect and his vassals. You know the one who opened the gate and let the demons in to destroy his rivals?

I don't think you actually read that part. It was the shattering of Biel-tan and the reverberations of Yneeds Avatar's birth that shattered and broke the gate. Vect and his vassals escaped to their hidden area to ride out the storm and attempt to keep power once things got repelled.

The only factions I can see being lumped together are:

Armies of the Imperium: This title has been used recently, and is the catch-all umbrella for the 31 flavours of Space marine, 3 factions of Inquisition, The Ineptus Mechanicus, Astral Millipede, Millipede Tempura, The Eccelesiarchy and so on. It allows for semi-generic units such as Arbites to make a come-back as units unaligned to a specific faction, but part of the larger whole. It's as if you had an army of Guard, but want some decent C&C smack down with your favourite Not-Dredd policemen.

Xenos: Aeldari: Vanilla (Craft), Chocolate (Dark) and Rainbow-Sprinkles-with-sherbert flavours of Eldar. Allows introduction of Caramel (Exodites) with a few units here and there. Maybe even Corsairs (Rum + Raisin) too, as a conversion kit between the three races. Pop a corsair conversion kit into a guardian/kabalite/harlie box and you're laughing.

Xenos: This area I can see being an "Individual Battletome" area or mini-compilations ala Disciples of Tzeentch. So, Tau Empire + Auxillaries leaves room open for kroot, vespids, demiurg, Gue'la and so on. Orks get their Clans! Maybe even a 8th Clan in rebel grots. Necrons...well, Dynasties? I guess they'd have more formations than anything to represent the uniformity of their appearance but differing lords and such. Tyranids gain GSC, with options to run pure GSC, pure nid, One of the big Hive fleets, etc.

Excommunicate Traitoris: Chaos, in all its flavours. Probably best split up the way AoS is handling Chaos- splitting the big 4 up into mini-compilations and then the cover-all which includes Undivided. Legions and Daemons and Cults, oh my! Could introduce renegades as a new subfaction to allow some cross-pollination of regular marine kits into the chaos armoury. MkVII chaos? hell yeah. Knee pads with faces on them! Spikes growing out of spikes! Plastic Huron! Make Undecided Great Again!

This all being said, I have no idea how 40k 8th is going to pan out. I just want smaller sized armies so I can get back in without having to paint in excess of 80 dudes plus vehicles

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I just really hope the imperium of man is.... nerfed on allies. it is currently just ridiculous. oh look a libraries conclave with white scar bikers, dark angels terminators, iron hands cad for vehicles with iwnd and fnp troops. also we have terminators attached to the new GK guy so reroll saves and improve inv save by 1 so 2++ rerollable TH/SS out front.

How are you managing to fit that all into 1850 while simultaneously forgetting Space Marines somehow forget their Chapter Tactics when joined by different Chapters?

I am not fitting that into it, I am just stuck playing against such bs as it smashes my orks to bits

On top of forgetting the second part and not remembering that the Ork codex is the primary problem due to how gakky it's written?

And seriously? Complaining about Terminators?

when they don't scatter, show up turn 1 and drop 2 heavy flamers.. yea

and what about the second part am I forgetting? I don't like/ play much space marines. I have a ton of models of them but mostly just to paint. I know the basics of what their units do because I often play against them.

as for fitting into 1850 the "base" is 1240 points including tigarius, I fight it all the time

UM tigarius, 2 tac squads 305

white scars bike captain, 2x grav gun 3 mnan bike squads 266

dark angels baliel, deathwing w./ heavy flamer, 2x th/ss 1x lc, 1 scout squad 475

libraries conclave (iron hands for fnp)195

was unsure of points before doing on battlescribe but it has all the chapter tactics in there.

sometimes that gets changes up no ultramarines, cad is iron hands w/ a gorgon's chain chapter master on a bike.

I agree the ork codex is gak, but superfriends space marines is really annoying even when playing my other armies. Plus in fairness what other army will be allowed to do anything like this? can I choose to take some strong necron stuff with my eldar and ork stuff and use my powers to buff them and attach to eachother's squads?

Deathwing don't show up T1 and cannot bring two heavy flamers in a squad unless they're at 10 dudes, so that's 210 points per Heavy Flamer. No, you're honestly not allowed to complain about that.

Also once all those characters join other squads they forget their Chapter Tactics. So this is still no issue.

I really don't think you've played against Space Marines to be honest.

We can already see from the attempts here that there's not really a clean, logical way for GW to split the current 40k factions into AoS-style Grand Alliances. There will always be a few outliers that just don't fit. GW basically had to completely rewrite the WH background in order to make their system work in AoS and even then it still feels a bit arbitrary.

So I'd assume we won't see that. Maybe IoM, Chaos and Eldar might get something that combines their various factions in some way but I wouldn't expect to see, for example, Necrons and Orks being lumped together to make the system work.

One thing I really hope they fix is how allies work in general. So many of the problems in 7th edition can be traced to the ally system. Just a simple rule that stops allies interacting with one another would go a long way to fixing those problems. If you stop allies sharing special rules and psychic powers and stop them joining each other's units things become a lot less abuseable.

Slipspace wrote:
We can already see from the attempts here that there's not really a clean, logical way for GW to split the current 40k factions into AoS-style Grand Alliances. There will always be a few outliers that just don't fit. GW basically had to completely rewrite the WH background in order to make their system work in AoS and even then it still feels a bit arbitrary.

I don't think it will work with four big factions, like in AoS, but I could see 40k working quite well with seven 'Grand Alliance' style factions:

Imperium: multiple Space Marine Chapters, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Sisters, Mechanicum, Imperial Guard, Militarum Tempestus, Knights

Chaos: Renegade Marines, multiple Legions, four Daemon factions, Hellforges (Dark Mech), Renegades & Heretics

Aeldari: multiple Craftworlds, Ynarri, Commorite, Exodite, Harlequins

Orks: multiple Klans, Freebootas, Grots

Necrons: Dynastic Legions, Canoptek Defenders, Triarch Forces, C'Tan

Tau: Tau Fire Caste, Kroot Mercenaries, Farsight Enclaves, Vespid, other alien auxiliaries

Tyranids: Hive Fleets, Genestealer Cults

 ArbitorIan wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
We can already see from the attempts here that there's not really a clean, logical way for GW to split the current 40k factions into AoS-style Grand Alliances. There will always be a few outliers that just don't fit. GW basically had to completely rewrite the WH background in order to make their system work in AoS and even then it still feels a bit arbitrary.

I don't think it will work with four big factions, like in AoS, but I could see 40k working quite well with seven 'Grand Alliance' style factions:

Imperium: multiple Space Marine Chapters, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Sisters, Mechanicum, Imperial Guard, Militarum Tempestus, Knights

Chaos: Renegade Marines, multiple Legions, four Daemon factions, Hellforges (Dark Mech), Renegades & Heretics

Aeldari: multiple Craftworlds, Ynarri, Commorite, Exodite, Harlequins

Orks: multiple Klans, Freebootas, Grots

Necrons: Dynastic Legions, Canoptek Defenders, Triarch Forces, C'Tan

Tau: Tau Fire Caste, Kroot Mercenaries, Farsight Enclaves, Vespid, other alien auxiliaries

Tyranids: Hive Fleets, Genestealer Cults

That's definitely a possibility but it feels a bit weird with Orks, Necrons and Tau being just their current stuff split up while the other factions get a proper alliance. I'm really not a fan of the way AoS splits everything into micro-factions so I hope they don't go that route.