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Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Mississippi

sqir666 wrote:
Apparently HG has allowed places to get the Robotech license. Which looks exactly like a Star Trek board game clone.

http://robotechboardgames.com/




Huh, Attack on the SDF-1 looks like a variant Castle Panic - or maybe Battlestar Galactica (aka, Are You a Cylon?) to me. The Ace Pilot almost sounds like it'll be a dice game, like Zombie Dice.

On the flip side, that PBWU is so full of . Mr. gRifts brakes go out? Sounds suspicious. Scott has a team? Doubly suspicious, since I'd infer a "team" is two people or more, three if it has a leader...

Of course, I also laughed about their reluctance to do a PB Open House and that Scott had to "push" it was doable. I think anyone who had any sense would know that for a struggling company like PB, having a weekend where potential customers come and play YOUR games in a space owned by YOU should be a no-brainer - and done EVERY year.

I really need to start back working on my RP products for sale. If these clowns can "make a living" at it with less than a book per year, surely I should be able to. Guess I'm not enough of a snake-oil salesman.

It never ends well 
   
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sqir666 wrote:
Merijeek wrote:
I'm fairly certain HG will never get another licensing penny out of me...but where's this announcement? I'm just seeing second hand references to...something.


Sorry, I don't know how to do the website qoute thing on my mobile browser.


Funnily enough, the first website I posted only leads to the Strange Machine Games Facebook page but no announcements.
https://m.facebook.com/StrangeMachineGames/

PBs announcement about this.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1772417979439122&id=175809969099939





What is up with your FB links?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





So, does this mean Palladium now is going to have the Crisis of Harmonius Goldenium Treachery? Unca Kev could sit smug that he was the ONLY licensee pumping out Robotech junk but now that HG is chumming the waters it may be time to worry. I'm sure Kevster is screaming that HG is being a BETRAYER by daring to give other companies a shot at doing more than finger their collective sphincter for four years.

If the license gets pulled/runs out do we get refunds/answers as to how Unca Kevvy screwed up? I mean, if they have no license that obviously have no way to finish the project.
   
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Dakka Veteran




 TwoGunBob wrote:
So, does this mean Palladium now is going to have the Crisis of Harmonius Goldenium Treachery? Unca Kev could sit smug that he was the ONLY licensee pumping out Robotech junk but now that HG is chumming the waters it may be time to worry. I'm sure Kevster is screaming that HG is being a BETRAYER by daring to give other companies a shot at doing more than finger their collective sphincter for four years.

If the license gets pulled/runs out do we get refunds/answers as to how Unca Kevvy screwed up? I mean, if they have no license that obviously have no way to finish the project.
Normally when a license is wrapping up, the licensee is given sufficient time to wrap up (or cancel) any work in development, and then some more time to offload or scrap any existing stock.

Being this is Palladium, and their ability to work to a timeframe is non-existent, I don't see them capable of finishing under an established schedule. So whether they try or not is unknown. What is known is that if they don't, thet ARE legally on the hook. Especially as they've had sufficient time. They might have had a case HG were responsible if HG had pulled the license early in 2014. But not now.

Now, I don't actually expect HG to pull the license. The only licensor that's as pathetic as their licensee is the HG/PB relationship. The AvP one os probably as disfunctional, but it's got another decade or two of mismanagement before it comes close in terms of breadth of incompetence.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 15:09:17


 
   
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I love the guy on Facebook all angry about how PB had done so much work keeping Robotech alive and such.



Artist's Depiction:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 15:53:06


 
   
Made in us
Slicing Orb of Xandros






SoCal, USA!

 Stormonu wrote:
On the flip side, that PBWU is so full of . Mr. gRifts brakes go out? Sounds suspicious.


Was the implication that a backer finally became so disgruntled, they tracked him down and cut his brake lines like some bad B-movie revenge plot?


BTW, isn't PB only licensed for the RPGs, for which RRT is a spin-off, rather than a standalone board game? PB stretched their RPG license to produce RRT, rather than taking out a board game license. Right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 16:33:07


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Made in ca
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






Merijeek wrote:
I love the guy on Facebook all angry about how PB had done so much work keeping Robotech alive and such.


Alive like a dead parrot.
Spoiler:


   
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Dakka Veteran




 JohnHwangDD wrote:
BTW, isn't PB only licensed for the RPGs, for which RRT is a spin-off, rather than a standalone board game? PB stretched their RPG license to produce RRT, rather than taking out a board game license. Right?

That was an argument made during the campaign and that someone else had the license for miniatures. But it just never passed the smell test for me. If someone did have the license for miniatures I can't see how they would lose a challenge.

I think the more likely actual reason for the argument is soopagenius Kevin wanted his RPG branding right there in the title. There'd be no question anyone playing or picking up the box, wouldn't be reminded there's an RPG that people can check out too. Kevin might be considered special when it comes to writing, but he's anything but, when it comes to marketing.

He's as subtle as a thrown brick.
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 Desmodus wrote:
What is up with your FB links?


They're "m.facebook", which means the mobile version, which of course looks absurd when viewed on a monitor an order of magnitude or two bigger than it was intended for.

Threw me for a loop for a second too.

   
Made in us
Slicing Orb of Xandros






SoCal, USA!

Morgan Vening wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
BTW, isn't PB only licensed for the RPGs, for which RRT is a spin-off, rather than a standalone board game? PB stretched their RPG license to produce RRT, rather than taking out a board game license. Right?

That was an argument made during the campaign and that someone else had the license for miniatures. But it just never passed the smell test for me.

Kevin might be considered special when it comes to writing, but he's anything but, when it comes to marketing.


I consider Kevin to be a "special" person with "special needs".

-- 9k Craftworld Tian-Bing Eldar
-- 7k Ragnarok 1st "Einherjar" Imperial Guard
-- 4k Knights Sovereign SM
-- 2k Pale Templars CSM
-- 2k Ordo Lucifer =I=
-- 1k Sisters SoB
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Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I consider Kevin to be a "special" person with "special needs".

I think he serves more this purpose:

Speaking of that!: Waiting on our "update" from our new friend at the kickstarter.
Am I a sap for hoping they have ANYTHING concrete to say but doubting it very much?

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte

 
   
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Dakka Veteran




My opinion of Scott's contributions so far aren't particularly high, but I think people are being overly uncharitable to suggest "From here on out, I personally will be posting updates every two weeks - even if nothing has changed I will check in to let you know." is day specific.

Just because the first and second ones were Tuesdays doesn't mean that the third one has to be. As long as it's some time this week, I'd consider that reasonable.

Not that I expect there to be anything of substance regardless. Just don't see a point in spending the next few days hearing about a broken promise that isn't. Wait for a broken promise that is. Because that's inevitable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 15:42:11


 
   
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Morgan, here in the USA the 4th of July is a pretty big holiday. Basically everyone outside of retail has off work that day.

The fact that he made sure to post on the 4th seems like he is most definitely sticking to a "two weeks = 14 days" schedule.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Merijeek wrote:
Morgan, here in the USA the 4th of July is a pretty big holiday. Basically everyone outside of retail has off work that day.

The fact that he made sure to post on the 4th seems like he is most definitely sticking to a "two weeks = 14 days" schedule.
Meh.

People are free to feel how they want. I just feel holding him to a schedule not specifically declared, is as Forar said over on the Kickstarter Comments, just looking for a reason to get outraged.

Wait until he misses this week, or until he posts the expected wankery. It'll be here soon enough.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





Mississippi

Eh, he's on Central time, I'd expect if it's today it'll be about 4 PM CST or so.

Its just EXTREMELY frustrating how short the attention span seems to be at PB. It's like Kevin has a cask of Amontillado and a trowel for his employees after they've been at work for a couple of weeks. Then he just posts as them every six months to provide "proof of life".

Wonder where Ninja John was walled up?

It never ends well 
   
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 Stormonu wrote:
Eh, he's on Central time, I'd expect if it's today it'll be about 4 PM CST or so.

Michigan is EST according to Google. 5:06PM at GMT-4.
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Morgan Vening wrote:

I just feel holding him to a schedule not specifically declared,


He did declare a schedule. Here's what he said at the very end of the last update:

As I have previously promised you, I will be back again no later than two weeks from today with another update - that is Tuesday, July 18th.


But I think the only question is whether he'll give another non-update on time or merely be "too busy" to post an update.

   
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Dakka Veteran




GabrielV wrote:
Morgan Vening wrote:

I just feel holding him to a schedule not specifically declared,


He did declare a schedule. Here's what he said at the very end of the last update:

As I have previously promised you, I will be back again no later than two weeks from today with another update - that is Tuesday, July 18th.


But I think the only question is whether he'll give another non-update on time or merely be "too busy" to post an update.


I stand corrected. My eyes must have glazed over by that point in the lengthy Update saying not a lot.

So forget everything I said in my earlier posts.

He's got four hours then. He came close to missing his weekly Murmur too. He mentioned getting Kevin to do one on Sunday but that didn't work. Getting Kevin to work to schedule is a fools errand.

Wonder if the workload and the sense of futility is getting to him yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 00:05:43


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Pfft. It's Palladium Books - are we pretending they actually follow deadlines?

So what is this, three updates before the guy gets into "Hi guys, sorry for the late update" as his standard opener?
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block





He made it and WOW!!!!!!! Real information!!!! I feel there's some real progress!!!!! It went from getting quotes to getting quotes is HARD!!!!!!!! Six weeks and Scooter has crushed all Palladium critics. He's proven wave tu is just around the corner. Ah rats, Chinese New Year!!!!
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




And just like that, Update 3 goes live.

Contrary to expectation, there are a lot of details. But about process (which might have been interesting three years ago), and not about progress.

That it's been two weeks, and that people were asking for it immediately, the Force Orgs haven't been put up yet. Because having something of substance (as opposed to theory), wouldn't be PB.

Same with any Renders. Any day now... *headdesk*

And that's about it. More (slightly) than I was expecting, but nowhere near what is needed.
   
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Dakka Veteran




a) Hiding the weekly embarrassment from the Truly Faithful by removing the regular "totes working, swearsies" from the PBWU.

b) "I have people reviewing the old files now to make sure that there are no game-play/balance issues with them, and then will do the art and graphic design. Once the charts are ready they will be released as a free PDF on DriveThruRPG." Snerk.

c) "with the Sony movie in the pipeline, we should start seeing limited licenses being announced in the coming months for many new Robotech products. " Okay. So, HG, with Sony supposedly making progress on the movie, is flogging stuff with all the non-movie art and such? I guess that's interesting.

But, hey, keep pretending that you've actually got a chance to make it Wave Two. After all, we won't get 100k comments without continual verbal handwaving.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 00:43:28


 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider






Amazing .. more words... still no proof.. we don't even know if Scott is real or just an alter ego of Kevin..

But he was answering questions.. but the one most people is asking he didn't.. How to get a refund...


 
   
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[MOD]
Mallax Untain






Svalarheima, MA

The update in question:

Update #202

Jul 18 2017
My Third Update

Hi all, Scott here.

Here is my third update for RRT.

Consolidating How We Get You Information

Since I have taken over communications for RRT Wave 2 with regular, every other week posts, I have requested that Kevin forgo mentioning RRT Wave 2 in the Weekly Updates. This will be the main place for updates; only occasional mentions of RRT will be in the Weekly Updates when we feel it is truly warranted, such as reaching major milestones or have exciting news. Of course, upcoming events involving the RRT game – such as tournaments and organized play – will continue to be mentioned when appropriate in the Weekly Updates.

Manufacturing Quotes and the Process of Getting Them

We got three new quotes at the end of last week, a refined quote from the factory that we’ve been dealing with as well as initial quotes from two others that we had reached out to. We are currently analyzing the information in the quotes - a task that is not as simple as it may sound.

Several people have reached out to me in comments here, through e-mails and by phone since my last Update, asking that I give greater detail about just what goes on with setting up a major production like Wave 2, i.e. - getting a quote. So for those who are curious, please read on (if you’re not interested, you can skip down to the next bolded title).

The process of getting a quote is not as simple as picking up the phone and calling the manufacturing plant. Once we have identified “manufacturers” we feel have the capabilities for the project, we contact them to set up an initial meeting. (The “manufacturers” are usually either brokers who work with several factories, or the English speaking sales team of a Chinese manufacturer. For clarity, I will just refer to both as brokers.) In the meeting we go over the project with the broker, letting them know what exactly we need in the finished product, quantity and rough time line, special needs or concerns, and other details. Most brokers represent more than one factory/manufacturer, and they sometimes have to consult with them before being able to tell us if they can fulfill a production's needs and what they will require or can offer.

Next, we submit a spec sheet with the basic specifications for the products we want them to manufacture. The spec sheet for Wave 2 is a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet with 300+ lines and 7 or more columns. We send the spec sheet as well as a few 3D model files that are representations of the work that needs to be done to the broker. The broker then reviews the information and can ask for clarification on points, or additional info.

Once the broker feels that they have enough information, they reach out to their manufacturing contacts to see which, if any, plants have the capacity and capability to take on the project. They send them the spec sheet along with the model files and our expressed wishes about quality, quantity, and schedule to the plant(s) that are interested.

Now comes the long part. With most of the manufacturing plants being in China, they start off by translating the English information into Chinese. Unfortunately, translation is not an exact science, and there are sometimes interpretation errors that crop up, leading to back and forth exchanges between the manufacturer and the broker. If the broker doesn’t know the answer, they contact us. Sometimes it takes several of these exchanges to get the issue resolved. It doesn’t help that not only do these exchanges have to be translated back and forth between languages, but also very different time zones.

When the manufacturer is finally confident they have enough information, they look at their capabilities, put together a plan on how they intend to accomplish the work, figure out costs and time, and put together their quote. These quotes are not just “we can do the job for $XXX and have it to you by XXX”. They instead are broken down into their own spreadsheet as well as a written summary – all of which have to once again be translated into English. The quote itemizes details such as part count, material costs (and alternatives if the manufacturer has them to offer), projected time lines, work methods, a projected delivery date (for when the production run will end, not when it will be shipped – which is our job to set up – or when it will arrive to us), and other matters. The manufacturer sends the quote to the broker, who will go through it themselves looking for any obviously missing data or mistranslations. If there are any issues to be addressed the broker will try to do so, which can be another back and forth exchange, and then finally the quote gets back to us to review. We may have questions or concerns to address or clarify.

At the end of all this, we will get a draft contract for the work, which itself will need to be closely scrutinized to make sure it addresses EVERYTHING that we’ve worked out with the manufacturer. Any changes that need to be made have to be negotiated, which is facilitated by the broker. Once that process is done then we can finally enter manufacturing.

Wow, that was a lot of words. So how does all that apply to our current situation?

The thing to remember is the manufacturers are companies made up of people like you and me - people who are trying to do their jobs in the best and most efficient way possible - but putting together a quote takes time on their end, and time on ours. The manufacturer wants to do the quote as fast and well as possible in order to minimize their costs, time expenditure and to better their chances of getting the job (manufacturing is extremely competitive, and every manufacturer knows that any job they bid on is not in the bag until they have a signed contract). At the same time the manufacturer has to make sure that they can deliver on what it is they are promising. And it takes time on our side when we get the quote to see exactly what is being promised, and making sure it fits what we need. That's where we are at right now.

We will continue working with the manufacturers, going back and forth with them as described above until we have completed the process and gotten Wave 2 done. I know it is a long process, further complicated by the large scope of this project, but I want to reiterate that we want you to get Wave 2, and we want to see RRT become the game it deserves to be. I appreciate your patience as we continue this project.

Now to answer some of the questions I’m sure many people will have:

Question: Couldn’t a more experienced manufacturer, one who has done this sort of work a gazillion times and knows all the ins and outs, speed up this process? After all, they’ve already done it!

Answer: Unfortunately manufacturing detailed figurines is not linear when going from one game line to another. Just as one manufacturer may be great at producing organic forms such as fantasy characters and monsters but have problems depicting vehicles and mecha, while another is the exact opposite, and a third can’t do it all. Manufacturing processes that work for one company’s games and requirements won’t necessarily work for another’s. Thus our need to carefully scrutinize the quotes, to make sure that we (and you) get quality rewards for RRT Wave 2.

Question: Why not cut out all the translation problems by just going with a company in the United States?

Answer: Cost. The fact of the matter is that we want to make RRT into a growing, expansive game that will bring joy to fans for years to come. Unfortunately, manufacturing in China or somewhere comparable offers the most affordable way to be able to have a viable game that makes enough profit to support itself.

Question: Are we going to get RRT done by the end of this year?

Answer: Here are some details from one of the quotes as to a (rough) time line for production once the quoting process and contract are finished and signed:

● Pre-production (going over figurine files, making molds, etc.) = 5-6 weeks.

● Production = 10-14 weeks.

● Final Assembly (putting things in packages, etc) = 1-3 weeks.

At the time of this writing there is just under 24 weeks left in 2017. Using the estimated time line above, then yes, "technically" the RRT Wave 2 rewards could indeed be done by the end of the year. However, this estimate does not take into account things like sample reviewing, changes if necessary, approvals, where we may fit in the manufacturer’s schedule (they have obligations to other clients), possible delays (another job runs over, a machine breaks down, etc), overseas shipping, loading and unloading times, time in customs, time to ship the containers from the West Coast to us here in Michigan, or time for us to ship Wave 2 out to you. While the RRT Wave 2 production may begin/finish in 2017, it would be overly optimistic to say that they will be in your hands by the end of 2017.

Force Organization Charts

Thank you to everyone who responded to my question about the Force Org charts in my last update. I have people reviewing the old files now to make sure that there are no game-play/balance issues with them, and then will do the art and graphic design. Once the charts are ready they will be released as a free PDF on DriveThruRPG.

A New Robotech® Board Game – Not by Palladium Books

Last week we received several inquiries about a recently discovered website that is announcing a new board game based on Robotech®. This board game is not one of our projects. We reached out to Harmony Gold about it and they let us know that, with the Sony movie in the pipeline, we should start seeing limited licenses being announced in the coming months for many new Robotech products.

We are excited for our friends at Harmony Gold and wish them and all of their newest partners great success!

Questions and Answers

Question 1: Why ask for people to update their shipping info (Ship To address, email, and phone number) now when you are nowhere close to actually shipping us Wave 2?

Answer 1: It is true that we are nowhere close at present to shipping you your RRT Wave 2 game pieces. However, by keeping our shipping information up to date, once we finally do get Wave 2 in our warehouse, we should only have to update a few addresses of backers who have moved in just the last month or two, instead of trying to update everyone who has moved since Wave 1 was shipped. Basically, by doing the majority of the work now we make the actual shipping easier, quicker and more efficient when that day comes.

Question 2: Where are the new renders you talked about in your last Update?

Answer 2: My sincerest apologies for the delay. The renders will begin posting as I can get to them in the next few days. I had hoped to have them up before now but other business matters took up my time and focus.

Final Thoughts

I hope everyone is having a safe and fun Summer.

For those who are interested and going, there will be an organized RRT game at Gencon. We should have photos from the event posted to our Facebook page during and after Gencon.

As I have previously promised you, I will be back again no later than two weeks from today with another update - that is Tuesday, August 1st.

Scott Gibbons

Business Manager

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
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IL

The question(s) I have are these, PB previously worked with a company before to get the wave one models done. Since there's a tangible baseline with the wave one process and quality why not use that company again? Was it the difficulty of shipping and fulfillment the cause? Was there a falling out? Were bridges burned that prevent PB from finishing with the original factory and manufacturer? What exactly is the cause for having to get a whole new list of companies for quotes and production? Where did the project breakdown at and what is being done to prevent that from re-occurring?

I'm puzzled as to why the change in manufacturers is needed to begin with.

Paulson Games parts are now at:
www.RedDogMinis.com 
   
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Mallax Untain






Svalarheima, MA

Probably something along the lines of they need someone to do it cheaper than the first vendor due to financial reasons?

Maybe?

Nil nos tremefacit.
 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




So the short version is they're still getting quotes, and getting quotes takes time. If only they had been able to work on that the past several years.

The Force Org Charts can't be posted yet because no one has looked over them. If only there had been more time.

And can't post the renders. There just wasn't enough time. If only there had been some time in the past several years, but everything was so busy.

At least Unca Kev won't have to contaminate the main update with RRT stuff. He'll only have to do that if there is progress, and we all know that's an impossibility.



   
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SoCal, USA!

 paulson games wrote:
The question(s) I have are these, PB previously worked with a company before to get the wave one models done. Since there's a tangible baseline with the wave one process and quality why not use that company again?


That company may have been through Ninja Division.

Also, that company may not want to work with PB again....

-- 9k Craftworld Tian-Bing Eldar
-- 7k Ragnarok 1st "Einherjar" Imperial Guard
-- 4k Knights Sovereign SM
-- 2k Pale Templars CSM
-- 2k Ordo Lucifer =I=
-- 1k Sisters SoB
-- 4k Solland's Ghosts WFB Dogs of War 
   
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It's PB. Odds are that they still owe the first factory for the last invoice.
   
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Rockville, MD

Anybody got a link to the non-PB Robotech board game?

There was a consolidation in China a couple of years ago wrt the brokers and the factories. I wouldn't be surprised if the wave 1 factory or broker are run by different people at this point. Or the wave 1 broker doesn't deal with the wave 1 factory anymore.

It simply doesn't take this long to do this. I had a few containers of cables and iPhone cases made in China back when the dock connector was dropped.

It goes like this:
1) talk to a handful of brokers. Some will be in cahoots, but it is easy to figure that out based on the quotes

2) pick your poison and park some $ with the broker

3) they build your things. The main rub here are no mulligans. You get at best what you designed

4) you likely get some samples to inspect

5) you pay them and they ship

I had my designs in hand and initial contact to signed contract and evaluating 8 different brokers and like 30 factories was 2 weeks. 4 months later the stuff was on a ship.

Sure, PB has to make some molds and get those to the injection factory, so at worse maybe another step, but I'm certain this has been worked out many times before.

It'd be nice if PB was honest with us.
   
 
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