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toocool61 wrote:
Just a quick question, but I thought I read somewhere that in the new =I= supplement you can take SoB allied with another army, and still use the Inquisitor supplement as another allies?

Yup, this is true.

With the release of Codex: Inquisition, the Force Org Chart becomes this now:

Nice chart!

Are you running the henchmen with laspistols and ccw or boltguns?

Personally I would go more aggressive with 12 man bolters/plasma henchmen and attach an AS priest instead. If they are in close support of the sisters blob. The barebones priests can always detach and join the blob if you're planning a charge and the extra hymms means the priests in the blob with the power mauls can use their hymms to smash.

Sisters lack access to plasma and henchmen can squeeze in 18 potential shots for 90 points. It's on BS3 models with a 5+ armor save which shows a total disregard for the safety of your own men, but they are religious fanatics so who gives a frak.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Are you running the henchmen with laspistols and ccw or boltguns?

Personally I would go more aggressive with 12 man bolters/plasma henchmen and attach an AS priest instead. If they are in close support of the sisters blob. The barebones priests can always detach and join the blob if you're planning a charge and the extra hymms means the priests in the blob with the power mauls can use their hymms to smash.

Sisters lack access to plasma and henchmen can squeeze in 18 potential shots for 90 points. It's on BS3 models with a 5+ armor save which shows a total disregard for the safety of your own men, but they are religious fanatics so who gives a frak.

Barebones Laspistol/CCW. The models are redemptionists. If I go plasma/bolters, that's a lot of points (90 is almost a whole sister squad). I can see getting an AS priest for the blob, that's a good idea. 90 extra points turns them from a grot mob to a replacement for at least one other unit in the army.
3 Points under,btw.

Also lots of conversion work on all metal models, but worth it IMO.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Also lots of conversion work on all metal models, but worth it IMO.

Well, I would not use Redemptionists if I was going to go with 9 plasma. I'd use some of my other models and convert it out.

Also, that's illegal as it is 3 special weapons per henchman squad.

Either way, I don't think that that many plasma is worth it. Maybe 2 or 3 mixed into the squad to give them some punch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could drop 2 power mauls for 3 plasma on that squad, but am unsure if that's a good swap. Hmm... The one thing not really lacking in my list is AP2/1. I have plenty already. Is it really worth putting it on a fragile grot squad?

Also realising that the Simulacrum on the Blob isn't really that useful...

These are two valid ones along those lines:

Plasma


Extra Inq

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Quo wrote:
Also, just noticed this today.

The wargear entry for inquisitor henchman death cult assassins says "two power weapons," as opposed to "two power swords" in C: AS.

In other words, inquisitorial DCAs and can still rock the sword/mace + Axe setup. 5 DCAs, 5 crusaders, two priests and a hammerhand inquisitor is terrifying. That's a mountain of high strength power weapon attacks, rerolling to wound. Your opponent attacks agains WS5 and re-rollable 3++ saves. Then when you win the assault you sweep at initiative 6. Even without 'nades this unit can smash MCs and vehicles. I love it.

I don't expect that to last past the next time GW actually puts out FAQs and smacks it with a nerf-bat in C:GK and subsequently C:=][=.

Best abuse it as hard as we can while there's still hime, huh? But yeah, I agree, this is a slip up. They didn't intentionally make the inquisition version better. It's obviously just a copy/paste. I'm sure that's why C:I has arcos at 15 points per still. It's more ammo for my "games workshop has no peer review process" theory though.

 pretre wrote:
Bonus points if you do 4 DCA, 4 Crusaders and 4 Priests. Then put Celestine within 12" so they can use her leadership for the Hymns of War.

Why bother with Celestine? If you have a hammer hand inquisitor attached you've already got Ld 10 at less than half the points.

Had another game wtih eldar tonight. I lost, but it was very very close. I tried the thirty dominion setup I mentioned earlier. They didn't wreck as much as I wanted, but they did pin the eldar in their deployment zone and keep them there for four turns. Also, playtesting indicates that Coteaz is just awesome. Inquisitors are awesome. Divination is awesome. Plasma Cannon servitors are awesome. 12 point scoring units are awesome. It's pretty obvious that GW didn't put a lot of effort into the Inquisition 'dex, but even so it really helps sisters out a lot.

I like your extra INQ list better.

You can't use another model's ld for war hymns.

 Quo wrote:

 OutlawBandit wrote:
The warbands are not scoring unless C:I is selected as your primary army right?
Pretre, what are the acolytes there for in your list? Im guessing they are on bodyguard duty?

If you bring Coteaz, the warbands are scoring even if they're not in your primary detachment. Coteaz is pretty great.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Doesn't look like I'll be taking any Inquisitor allies. Though a tough as nails female inquisitor would be an awesome ally and could make a cool story with her butting heads with the cannoness.
Still need a third Exorcist and some converted priestesses. Maybe if I get some good bits and some equally good ideas I'll convert an inquisitor and henchwomen for allies, but that's a long term thing.

Even if you don't want to invest a lot of points into an inquisitorial force, in my opinion 110 points for two psyker inquisitors to twin-link your exorcists is a worthwhile investment.

Wait...did you just say "Twin-link your exorcists?"

...I might get the Inq codex after all...

 pretre wrote:
You can't use another model's ld for war hymns.

Why wouldn't you get to use another model's Ld?

Because ymdc

I appreciate the link, but I don't think anything was really solved in that thread. In the initial discussions after the new rules came out it was pretty quickly agreed upon that you did use the highest Ld in the unit.

I'm not saying that's absolutely the case, but I'm a little surprised that I missed the conversation where that call got reversed.

Okay, let's put it this way. I usually use the least advantageous interpretation... So I wouldn't use the unit's leadership.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rynner wrote:
I like your extra INQ list better.

Hmm. I only found 2 Plasma dudes to use as well. I'm not sure I like just having one power maul for the priests, but that list isn't bad. Plus I have a badass hereticus psyker model all painted up.

Anyone else find it funny that when only AS could use priests the view was War Hymns must use the priests LD but as soon as everyone else can use them it's being argued either way.

So Inq allies. I'm looking at adding them to my higher end games, maybe even squeeze them into 1500 list. Thinking of fielding the crap I used to go up against when there were tonnes of GK players around. Inquisitor (likely Coteaz) Servitors with plasma, a monkey or two and a bunch of acolytes for extra wounds. Maybe even put the quad gun back into my list, that plus the Avenger should handle AA fairly well. I also love the idea of the Inquisitor with Psyocculum for some psyker killing.

Aren't leadership tests taken on the highest leadership value in the unit or am I missing something?

It's complicated. I would recommend the YMDC thread linked above so that we don't derail this one.

Hm. Guess that's one of those things that we need to write in to the FAQs.

Still tinkering with my lists. Ugh. I will come up with something eventually. lol

I guess I'll start a real army list thread. edit: There http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/563885.page

It actually isn't. Is the war hymn a psychic test? No? Ok then, you use highest ld in the unit.

War hymns is not a psychic power, nor is it a unit leadership check it follows the war hymns special rule.

War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat.

RAW = The test is made on the model with the special rule at his Ld7. That's why it's 25 points for the model, there's a good chance to fail.

The only way around this is either Litanies of Faith wargear to autopass hymns or taking Saint Celestine whose rules both explicitly state that they modify [b]models with the War Hymns special rule[/b]. If any squad could use their unit leadership, then the rules modifying War Hymns specifically would be redundant.

dadakkaest wrote:
War hymns is not a psychic power, nor is it a unit leadership check it follows the war hymns special rule.

War Hymns: A model with this special rule can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat.

RAW = The test is made on the model with the special rule at his Ld7. That's why it's 25 points for the model, there's a good chance to fail.

The only way around this is either Litanies of Faith wargear to autopass hymns or taking Saint Celestine whose rules both explicitly state that they modify [b]models with the War Hymns special rule[/b]. If any squad could use their unit leadership, then the rules modifying War Hymns specifically would be redundant.

No, St. Celestine's Beacon of faith rule allows her to modify only AoF and WH tests because that's what it modifies. GW didn't want her to have a simple 12" Ld10 bubble so they made the rule only apply to two things, mainly because those both rely (fluff-wise) on faith, and the rule is called Beacon of Faith. Huzzah.

Anyway, it's still a leadership test. Not some super-special war hymn test. A Leadership test. For which the rules are quite clearly stated on page seven.

The rule book says
LEADERSHIP TESTS
At certain times, a model or unit might be called upon to take
a Leadership test. This usually represents them drawing upon
their courage to face disheartening circumstances.
To take a Leadership test, use the following procedure:
. Roll 2D6and compare the result to the models leadership.
. If the result is equal to or less than the model's Leadership
value, then the test has been passed.
. If the result is greater than the models Leadership value, a
suitably dire consequence will occur, as detailed in the rule
that called for the test.
.If a unit includes models with different Leadership values,
always use the highest Leadership from among them.
MODELS WITH MULTIPLE PROFILES
Where a model has more than one Leadership value, a
Leadership test is always taken against the highest of the values.

Anyway, the YMDC thread cleared it up nicely. Just because the Priest is the one taking the test doesn't mean he is suddenly exempt from the rules.

Guys, take it to YMDC:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/563627.page

Yay, here come the powergamers to give all their space marine squads Celestine's warlord trait.

The special rule says what it says. The model takes the test. Not the unit. Page seven of the rulebook is talking about Morale tests. War hymns is not a morale test it's a special rule.

End of discussion.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, I just think everyone who basically plays Sisters, or the new Inqusition book needs to write in to GW on which the Priest is supposed to use: the highest or his own. That's about the only way it'll get solved properly I think.

It's not really a new thing either. It's just a consequence of GW calling it a Leadership test, which means it follows the rules on page 7, which are very very clear on how they work.

But as has been said, YMDC it is!

 ClockworkZion wrote:
As a small off-topic aside from the talk of psykers, the codex feedback I was working on was mailed today along with 3 Cadbury Dairy Milk bars as compensation for asking Kelly to read 20 pages of stuff (sad part is I could have written even more about pretty much everything).

I don't know if I'll get a reply back, but if I do I'll share it (even if it's a C&D ).

Awesome !
Didn't saw the final version of it, though.

Mkay so, I have thought about the use of Celestians and would be very interested in useful (meaning actually useful and not filled with generalities) discussion or analysis on them. i have my own ideas, but I have a blog for that. Just collecting intel at this stage from those who actually play them and not from the peanut gallery.

Strong points: STR 4 on the charge (twice if alive enough to use the Simulacrum). 2 Special weapons. Nice LD on the unit, not just the Superior. 2 attacks base. Power armor and bolters as well as pistols. Not terrible. Feels like their usefulness hinges on who you attach. Celestine mayhap? Do priests make this a value buy?

Synergies abound for this unit. I want to find a suitable place for it in my plans. Battle Conclaves are so clearly better at melee besides the fact that Celestians shoot AND fight. Average wounds before a charge and after still slides in the favor of the Battle conclave. This unit needed countercharge as part of its Act of Faith I think.

I can find negativity and defeatism anywhere I go. I'm looking for a good solid role for these ladies. How would you build a force with at least two units of them? Even three. It's an interesting exercise. "I wouldn't" probably isn't a productive answer, but someones going to say it. I just know it... And thats fine. But useful ideas are welcome also.

The whole War hymn this isn't a debate. I messaged the GW digital guys via facebook and they gave me their reply. It's not a psychic test so it gets tested on from the highest leadership of the squad, not model.

Official reply.

Either way, what models should I use for a redemptionist horde?